Cash Slaves

[Alex Bragi]

Most of you probably know about on-line dominants and their submissives and how they operate. It's a harmless and mutually enjoyable form of on-line BDSM that often blossoms into loving, long term, and long distant relationships. However, along with the range of new exciting and titillating things that the internet offers, one of the most intriguing surely is the 'money slave' and his 'money master/mistress'.

A money slave is basically a man who is submissive on-line. However unlike his regular on-line submissive brothers, his domination comes at a price—a monetary that is. His dominant will order him around, often instructing him on everything from when he's allowed to eat, sleep and shit, to when he's allowed to wank off; frequently telling him how totally worthless and inferior he is; debasing and deriding him constantly, and in return the slave will shower his mistress or master with expensive gifts and money—hence the name. It's actually generated a whole lot of new nouns. Men and women who engage these money slaves are said to be 'wallet rapists' or 'cash masters/mistresses'. While money slaves are also known as 'paypigs', 'cash cows', or 'human ATMs'—again, for obvious reasons.

In one case I read about, the man actually allows his cash mistress access to his online bank account. Apparently, it gives him an extra thrill to risk being cleaned out by her, completely, at any time.

Like many BDSM practices I suppose a part of the excitement is in the perceived risk.

Gloria Brame, author of "Different Loving: The World of Sexual Dominance and Submission", however, portrays dominants and submissives as compassionate loving individuals for whom pain is pleasure and physical bondage is psychologically liberating. I understand this completely, and so I find it difficult to reconcile this formula when thinking of the relationship between a cash slave and his on-line beneficiary.

One money slave site advertises:
"Do you feel the need to spoil Sexy, Intelligent, Dominant Women, crave to shower them with gifts? Or maybe you need a really tough Bitch to keep you in line and put you in your place? Or perhaps you're a loser who can't stop wanking it, and you know you need a Dominant Lady to take control of your bad habits, to train you to gain pleasure from something more worthy, like giving Her gifts and cash.

Well, inside this site, you will find an interactive forum, a toplist, and NiteFlirt listings featuring the sexiest, most intelligent, Dominant Women on the internet, and no matter what you think you need, or what you think you're looking for, the Ladies listed on this site will take charge and tell you what you REALLY need. Don't think about it, you will simply obey. "

It's a joke as old as Adam, 'A woman sits on a fortune', however these parasites are cashing in big time without even once having to drop their well filled pants or smudge their lovely lipstick coated mouths. Is it prostitution? Well, it's certainly selling sex. However, this isn't like regular prostitution, or even paid phone or internet sex. The service rendered is minimal and the payment excessive. There are not set fees; no rules or guidelines. No, "Here's the money, now here's what I want." It's all too often an insidious mind game where the balance of power will be tipped totally in the dominant's favour. In fact the devotion shown by many of these money slaves is almost cult-like.

So, is this simply a new and edger kind of BDSM play, or is it just another symptom of our greedy society—where unscrupulous people feel comfortable and justified about manipulating others for their own monetary gain?

How exactly should we evaluate this phenomenon? I leave you to ponder.

[DiablosPet]

Wow, that's exactly what I have to do..ponder.

But yes my first thoughts are that it's just greed. I guess I can understand just the domination being offered through the sites. But, to me, that's not what BDSM is all about. I am not only Master's Pet but I am his partner. We have a foundation of respect, appreciation and most of all trust. I could not imagine enjoying BDSM to it's true fullest without that general common-bond Master and I share.

I don't know, maybe I'm out to lunch on this..

-DP

[DiablosPet]

sorry to everyone for the double post, I get a little "click-happy" sometimes :P

-DP

[denuseri]

wpw a;; i have to say is gppd gravey gertie

[WyldWyl]

Doesn't seem right to me- It's one thing to buy a gift for a dom (or a sub) as a token of respect, affection, esteem, whatever; it's also one thing to pay for the services of a professional dom or domme, I can even understand why some people might buy gifts for a professional as a form of tip. That's all fine and good and lovely.

But for the only real interaction to be financial, the relationship goes (from my perspective) from being symbiotic to parasitic, if you'll allow the biological metaphor. Honestly, no offence to any specific person, but I kind of find the idea of these paypigs to be a little bit pathetic- a step even further down from the repressed, argyle sock wearing wannabe m-sub you find caricatured on dirty postcards and the like.

But you know- that's just my inflammatory rhetoric.

[Ozme52]

It's a strange (to me) phenomenon.

I wouldn't even want to be on the receiving end. I feel bad when I inadvertantly give a task that results in the purchase of some kind of pervertable. LOL

[thepast]

Well, I have some views on this one...

If it is what gets your rocks off, then great, go at it. But WOW are there a LOT of r/l consequences to this kink... ones that need to be thought through thoroughly (say that 10x fast)... Are there other places your money needs to be going (debts, child support, etc)? Do you have dependents? Do you have a sound financial plan? Are you making your monthly bills?

If one were "rolling in dough," I'd say hey, great, enjoy, have at it. But there are VERY few people I think who have a lot of spare cash just lazing around to be used for this purpose... Maybe some use their monthly entertainment fund for this, or maybe they don't have to worry about finances...

But I dunno... something about this strikes me that the majority of "cash slaves" DON'T have endless funds, no debts, OR a sound financial plan...

If you think through this & it works for you, great. But this is one of those "high risk" types of kinks that I think can be dangerously addicting, or just plain dangerous.

Just my 2 cents...

[fetishdj]

Its a common danger when you are looking online for a Mistress (I've not heard of any Masters doing this before) that you risk encountering someone who really is just in it for the money. You have to be on your guard and look out for danger signals. Recently I have encountered two who claimed to be Mistresses from America looking for online slaves. However, when you talk to them in chat, both of them independently said they were in Ghana. This hit off a major warning signal for me, especially as money was being asked for and a number of other lies also came apparent in one of them.

I have no problem with a woman setting herself up as a professional Mistress online and selling 'services' for money - even if those services seem nebulous compared to a r/l Mistress. These women are usually blatantly obvious about thier intentions - their sites say exactly what is paid and exactly what a sub can expect for that payment. Some of them even offer online cam sessions and/or e-mail tasks in exchange for the tribute.

Some r/l professionals (and even some lifestylers) also tend to have wishlists and tribute paypal buttons which you can use to buy them appropriate gifts and give them money.

What I do have a problem with are women who claim to be lifestyle and who post profiles on sites like alt.com saying they are looking for 'genuine lifestyle subs' then start asking for money almost as soon as you contact them without even the barest minimum of pretense at being a true lifestyle domme.

[shayna{L_D}]

i have no imput, i think this this thread is great. Good job Alex. It gets me thinking.

and delia i sure dont have money just lazing around, and if i did i dont think id spend it on that kinda thing....just my two cents

[Ozme52]

i have no imput, i think this this thread is great. Good job Alex. It gets me thinking.

and delia i sure dont have money just lazing around, and if i did i dont think id spend it on that kinda thing....just my two cents

Only two cents? Not even worth a couple of bucks to see if it's exciting?

<<==deliberately misreading the sentence

[GS42]

As always, it seems to be about trust.

It's very easy to see the dangers and general unfairness of a situation where (vulnerable?) people are controlled by a dominant demanding money not for a service, but as a service. Dependence and bankruptcy (with all the nasty consequences) could seriously ruin your life. And meanwhile we imagine the 'dominant' not caring and asking for more.

Thing is, this doom-scenario could just as easily be applied to a 'normal' D/s relationship, where often a submissive gives up about everything apart from their bank account. In fact, the dangers here go far beyond losing your money when meeting a rotten dominant. One could say this financial slavery is much less risky than the real thing. It's just the money that gives it a bad feeling to it, as if that's the (only) motivation of the dominant who therefore won't give a damn about the subs.

So as long as a dominant does not exploit the trust handed over and the submissive does not betray trust by not telling when a limit's reached, why not? Sounds familiar? *wink*

That being said, I would be weirded out if offered a large amount of money. (Not that anyone ever does, of course. ) It'd feel like being paid, and that... I dunno... gives a submissive control, maybe? Or perhaps gives the impression of being motivated by cash? Not sure about why, it just does not feel right.

[Polaris]

I think there is a big difference between paying exuberant for an online "Mistress", or handing over the control over your finances as a part of a power exchange -- after considering the possible consequences, and taking the time to build the trust that is necessary. Admittedly, both scenerios make me slightly skeptical, but I don't think that in a lifestyle relationship of any kind it goes like: "Hello. We only met only yesterday. Please let me give you my account data. And while I am at it, may I buy you a new car?" I imagine it takes a long time of planning, talking, and a whole lot of trust to take that step.

I have seen similar webpages, and in my opinion -- pardon my directness -- they are one big scam exploiting the needs of individuals that have a hard time getting their desires and needs fulfilled. Please don't misunderstand me, I in no way mean to judge the submissive men who enter such relationships. I don't, however, think highly of the women offering such 'services'. You don't get anything for your money. If you're unlucky -- or not exuberantly rich -- Mistress Wonderful won't possibly even talk to you. If you pay for being whipped, or degraded, or treated as a pet -- then you get what you pay for. This way you end up paying, paying, paying...with no obvious results. I wonder if this may be an independent fetish, but even if it is it feels like a very unsafe and unconsensual thing to me.

This goes far beyond buying somebody a gift as a token of appreciation. This is financing somebody who doesn't care a bit a lifestyle they couldn't afford elsewise. I also have some serious doubt that these 'dominant' women are really dominant. From what I've read, they're just as vanilla as your neighbour, but have found a clever marketing niche. I'd say that it should be illegal, but then...maybe there are people who really get something out of that. If that's the case, hell, go for it. But be very, very careful so you don't overlook your own limits. Hugh, I have spoken

[dewran59]

This thread is great and am glad *bazzard phenomenon* like this is discuss here.

This is a very interesting topic….mmm…very curious about this one. Mine buggling actually.

I have similar experience while talking with someone online…I have been offered a gift as a token and also a large amount of money which amazes me so much..???

Well..i’m not really good at expressing myself here….as you can see…writing is not my kind of things that’s why I love doing fun and games…lol. But I am a very good listener...

Thank you Alex for bringing this up and also thanx to everyone here.

[fetishdj]

Now, being dominant and not asking but being offered is a different matter. If someone wants to give you a gift of money (or wine or a new pair of boots or gloves or whatever) then I see no problem with that at all.

To be honest, having talked to some Dommes who have wishlists on thier websites, most of them seem to do it not out of demanding money or gifts but rather as a way of making sure that they get suitable gifts when such are offered. I think too many of them have been given flowers when they would prefer chocolate or white wine when they'd prefer red or boots in the wrong size or colour and so on. I also think many men who like to give gifts to Mistresses prefer knowing in advance what to give instead of having to second guess.

There is a very subtle difference between demanding money for sexual services and being offered gifts for the same services. There is also a difference between sexual services and BDSM services in many cases - a distinction which most Pro-Dommes exploit to give them at least a small amount of protection from the law (however flimsy that may be it sometimes makes a difference). This is why most pro Dommes do advertise as offering no sexual services at all.

[jacknight]

While I personally find cash slaving distasteful, shouldn't we treat it with the same tolerance we treat other aspects of BDSM? Once you have informed consent between 2 mentally competent adults, shouldn't anything go? (which means it is NEVER acceptable to involve children, animals or the mentally handicapped).

(Of course, it's debatable whether a male with an erection is mentally competent, lol)

[fetishdj]

This, of course, is the issue in question... should this be tolerated as an acceptable fetish or is it dangerous beyond the SSC tolerance level? Ok, when the fetish is cannibalism or having your nuts nailed to a tree the danger is apparent and physical but in this case there is a danger of financial ruin - which could lead to conconimant, physical and mental dangers such as health problems, homelessness and so on.

[Asmodeuss]

Everyone seems to assume that the Dom has complete control over
the finances of the sub.

What if the sub is using a dummy acount for the Dom.If the sub is
a multimillionaire ceo and has an account with twenty,thirty or
even a hundred thousand its just a drop in the bucket for them
but the fantasy remains.or if they're married he works but she
controls every aspect of the finances.And when hes bad he has
to hand over a twenty with every spank.

As for the websites it could be a monthly fee like you would pay for
a porn site but they use it in chat as a means to control the sub

There are to many variables to just denounce them and make them
outcasts of an outcast community.There will be those who abuse
this fetish just like there are people who abuse BDSM but there will
also be good people who just enjoy this kind of power exchange.

Just be cautious and keep an open mind.

[fetishdj]

All the above is true but this is not what is being discussed here... apart from maybe the multimillionaire example with the spare accounts...

The set up is simply that someone who claims to be a Domme sets up a website and subs pay tribute for what amounts to little or no service (no e-mails are sent, no active domination is given by the people involved). This can go from a few pounds a month to giving over complete control of the finances.

I guess some people here are finding it hard to understand why someone would pay money to someone who may not even be real (just a photo on a website) for what amounts to nothing in return.

Several of the comments here have been along the lines of considering that many Dommes who ask for gifts or tribute often give something in return for that - a session of webcam BDSM, a selection of personal photos, an e-mail with tasks in and these are a different situation. Also, many lifestyle and professional Dommes often have wishlists which show potential gift buyers what they would like to be bought should someone happen to be in the mood to buy them a gift but they do not, at any point, demand gifts - merely suggest that they would be nice to get.

I suppose this fetish does hark back to the concept of keeping a Mistress in a flat near where you work and buying her nice things and visting her there while you are working in the city. Also to the days of courtesans who often got paid in dresses, jewellry, carriages and so on rather than cash.

[Arria]

I don´t see what is in it for the sub, but I would ask everyone to consider it takes TWO people to make such a deal (or whatever you may call it). The blame is not to be directed at one party only.

I heard about this issue, too. To be honest, I do not understand it. Everybody is looking to get what he/she wants - ok so far.
The Dommes do get gifts and money, of course...
But I do not understand what the sub is getting here.

From what I see, the subs get little to no attention/service back. The idea that someone should derive pleasure from giving and not getting anyhting at all is scary to me.

But then again, my likings are scary to other people as well... *lol*

[shade s]

I don't see the fun in this sort of domination either but other than that i really can't see the problem.

The one example from the top post of a guy giving away total control of his money just seems like a lone example of one stupid guy, and my guess is that other guys who enjoy the same fetish probably fantasies about something similar but are smart enough to leave it at that.

Whether or not this is a real D/s relationship i would have to say no. For the girls it is just a "job".
Real cash slave relationship might eksist but it would have to be done by a real couple before i would believe it.


What i do find find interesting about it is that it is one of those situation in bdsm where you can't see the opposite happening. Cash slavegirl...