Valued traits in the life.

[Nightstriker]

After reading some of the threads I want to talk about what people value in their relationships in the life.

I personally approach this life and look at it like I would look at it like a vinilla relationship.

You need to love the one you are with. Without love there really is no base for you to be able to build a relationship on. There needs to be trust, both sides need to trust eachother. And there needs to be loyalty.

From what I can see most of the activities, tasks and in one way or another test these factors, on both sides.

[GaryWilcox]

You need to love the one you are with. Without love there really is no base for you to be able to build a relationship on. There needs to be trust, both sides need to trust eachother. And there needs to be loyalty.

Communication is key. When you've got a little bit of wisdom in your life about getting past yourself and treating others well, pretty much any hurdle can be overcome, as long as you both can talk about it.

Humor is important. If I can't laugh at the horror of it all with you, then we're not meant to survive together.

[BabySub]

Love, trust, communication, humour, honesty and respect.

If I didn't respect my Dom, and he likewise, it wouldn't have survived the two years it has.

My Dom is the only person (apart from one or two family members) that I trust with my life.

We have to communicate, more so than r/l perhaps because it's online / long distance.

We have to be honest with each other. If we're not honest, like in any relationship, problems crop up. Telling each other how we feel, think and react to things, is a major part of this for us.

And you gotta have a laugh. lol.

All this, to me, should be expected in any relationship, kinky or vanilla.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

I'm writing an article right now called "The Seven Essential Elements for Any Successful Relationship." In it, I list the following as absolute essentials:

Trust
Communication
Understanding
Compassion
Honesty
Respect
Commitment

[GaryWilcox]

Understanding
Honesty
Respect

And lest we forget the byproduct of these three things:

Humility!

[alura]

I so agree with you. To me though, honesty is more important than anything else. Without true honesty, love cannot survive, nor can trust, understanding, communication and the others.
In a world where so many people play games, honesty is truly the only thing left that can save us from ourselves AND each other.

I'm writing an article right now called "The Seven Essential Elements for Any Successful Relationship." In it, I list the following as absolute essentials:

Trust
Communication
Understanding
Compassion
Honesty
Respect
Commitment

[Barton]

There is talk for the sake of talking. Then there is communication.

True communication is not possible without compassion, nor honesty.
You can not communicate without trust and understanding.
Without respect and commitment you would not want to communicate.

[Donatien]

I'm writing an article right now called "The Seven Essential Elements for Any Successful Relationship." In it, I list the following as absolute essentials:

Trust
Communication
Understanding
Compassion
Honesty
Respect
Commitment

In essence, I don't disagree with any of these as essential elements; though I would like to add another 'Love', in the 'agape' sense ( translated in st pauls epistle as charity , but perhaps more accurately as caring), and to precede each with the addition of the word "mutual".( needless to say love(in the eros sense) also comes in handy in some forms of personal relationships!)

However, having come across them expressed as here, as intellectual abstractions, in so many empty Mission Statements put out by uncaring, duplicious , beaurocratic organisations; I feel uneasy, even queazy.

I have come across serious minded dedicated individuals who sincerely believe that they are deeply endowed with all these qualities but, are singularly lacking in the ability to relate successfully with others at least on a personal level.

Notice the difference of association between charity, and caring. Caring as active and practical, whereas charity as more abstract and possibly cold. Big abstract nouns, are so static and intellectual, with none of the sense of dynamism and flow that verbs convey. No passion , No emotion either.

So much so that too much use of them can shrivel and dessicate the mind .

e.g communication. Who is communicating what with whom? and are they communicating or only transmitting. ( It has been wisely said that the only measure of a communication is the response)

In essence what I am trying to get across is perhaps best summarised in the episode in Winnie-the-Pooh, when Pooh and piglet visit Rabbit to wish him a happy thursday. Pooh is basic instinctive humanity, not too intellectually gifted but full of all the humane qualities,; whereas Rabbit is all intellect

.Rabbit who is always busy on 'important matters' is a little irritated by this 'frivolous' intrusion into his life of greater things, and so after wishing him a "very happy thursday" Pooh and Piglet continue their walk.
Pooh is thoughtful, and after quite a while says. " Of course Rabbit is clever;.... Rabbit has brain. "......very long pause......." I suppose that that is why he never understands anything"

I should add that this is not in reference to Tgs use of these forms of words , which are no doubt only intended as headings; but rather their increasing use by organisations as a smoke screen to conceal values that are all too frequently precisely the opposite
Donatien

[ProjectEuropa]

I have come across serious minded dedicated individuals who sincerely believe that they are deeply endowed with all these qualities but, are singularly lacking in the ability to relate successfully with others at least on a personal level.

* * *

.Rabbit who is always busy on 'important matters' is a little irritated by this 'frivolous' intrusion into his life of greater things, and so after wishing him a "very happy thursday" Pooh and Piglet continue their walk.
Pooh is thoughtful, and after quite a while says. " Of course Rabbit is clever;.... Rabbit has brain. "......very long pause......." I suppose that that is why he never understands anything"

I noticed in a relationship where the other party never stopped mentioning the importance of trust, integrity and morals etc etc. and that the importance of such virtues were not so important when applied to themselves. Normally when someone is telling you what a surplus they have of these values you can guarantee they don't have as many as yourself. Most people today are knowledgeable enough to be able talk the talk and think it's sufficient without walking the walk so it is most certainly a case of actions speaking louder than words. I tend to drift off into neverland when people promote such values in themselves. I much prefer and am more charitable to people who admit their flaws, probably because I need such charity myself.

As for organisations spouting values and virtues, I think we have the social sciences and academics with no other motivation than to promote their own careers to thank for that and the onset of political correctness and the rationalisation of human relations. I've sat through many a social work seminar listening to earnest people espousing virtues they could only categorise in their brain and were totally incapable of taking them to heart. Bland mission statements either on a organisational or a personal level telling us how we should relate to our fellow human beings is just a way of directing away attention from their own inadequacies.

Pooh was right, brains can become a barrier to understanding. Intellectualisation of human virtues does not necessarily help us to understand something that should come directly from the heart. Trust, integrity, morals and other virtues etc. while can be intellectually defined and found in a dictionary, only have real meaning when their meaning is defined in the heart.

[Sir Lanceloth]

I'm writing an article right now called "The Seven Essential Elements for Any Successful Relationship." In it, I list the following as absolute essentials:

Trust
Communication
Understanding
Compassion
Honesty
Respect
Commitment

havent you forgotten love? how can one feel those 7 Essential Elements without feeling love?

[BDSM_Tourguide]

havent you forgotten love? how can one feel those 7 Essential Elements without feeling love?

No. Actually, I included love, but then removed it in favor of commitment. I don't actually believe that people must feel love for one another to maintain a relationship. However, I do believe they must be committed to one another for a relationship to exist.

A lot of people mistake love for lust, and in those cases love is not experienced anyway, bu the commitment is still there.

[Wontworry]

Without love there really is no base for you to be able to build a relationship on. There needs to be trust, both sides need to trust eachother. And there needs to be loyalty.

From what I can see most of the activities, tasks and in one way or another test these factors, on both sides.

Agreed, Nightstriker, and it is exactly this that confuses me whenever I hear of some of the tasks given in Submissive Tasks. I have very little knowledge of this because I am not a member of that part of the forums and I would be very happy to be enlightened, but I just can't get my head round how trust, loyalty and particularly love, can be involved when tasks are seemingly given out at random.

For my part I know that I couldn't do half the things I do with lucy unless I trusted, respected and, above all, loved her. But then I suppose that is the difference between having a BDSM relationship and just playing at Ds by giving/receiving tasks when both parties know virtually nothing about each other.

[ProjectEuropa]

But then I suppose that is the difference between having a BDSM relationship and just playing at Ds by giving/receiving tasks when both parties know virtually nothing about each other.

I've always wanted to ask but never had the guts for fear of everyone's wrath coming down on me, is how can one have a D/s relationship online with two people that hardly know each other. I had a very serious relationship and fucked up because I was so good at misinterpreting everything. Maybe seriousness was the problem, it mattered when I fucked up.

Oh well, I've come to the conclusion I'm crap at relationships, the harder I try the more I fuck up and the less I try the more successful I seem. If I haven't fathomed relationships at my age, it's not going to happen. I know all the theory, it's the fucking practice that is beyond me!

I need a little Leonard Cohen for cathartic reasons.

[Wontworry]

I've always wanted to ask but never had the guts for fear of everyone's wrath coming down on me

*Stands shoulder to shoulder with PE, awaiting the onslaught.*

[slavelucy]

I've always wanted to ask but never had the guts for fear of everyone's wrath coming down on me, is how can one have a D/s relationship online with two people that hardly know each other. I had a very serious relationship and fucked up because I was so good at misinterpreting everything. Maybe seriousness was the problem, it mattered when I fucked up.

Oh well, I've come to the conclusion I'm crap at relationships, the harder I try the more I fuck up and the less I try the more successful I seem. If I haven't fathomed relationships at my age, it's not going to happen. I know all the theory, it's the fucking practice that is beyond me!

I need a little Leonard Cohen for cathartic reasons.

Um..i'm confused...what WAS the question then?!?! LOL You said, i think "How can one have a Ds relationship with two people who hardly know each other?"...., this is a little ambigious (to say the least!)...do you mean how can one person have a relationship with two people? Or did you mean how can people have a relationship online? Or did you mean how can two people have a relationship online with someone they don't know? If the latter - 'tis easy, you get to know 'em! You couldn't possibly have any sort of relationship otherwise.

sl

[ProjectEuropa]

Um..i'm confused...what WAS the question then?!?! LOL
sl

See! What more proof do you need! I'm useless.

[slavelucy]

See! What more proof do you need! I'm useless.

ROFL!

Awww, seriously tho, was there a question, or was it a continuation of WW's point about ST? If the latter i probably share reservations about how love/commitment/trust fit into a more...random set up. If it was about online relationships in general (between two specific people)...well, that's broader and is probably about taking time to get to know someone...can you ever KNOW someone for sure? No, probably not...but then again, you can't in real life either if they really didn't want you to.

Btw - don't be so hard on yourself Re: relationships, no one's perfect.

sl

[Donatien]

I had a very serious relationship and fucked up because I was so good at misinterpreting everything. Maybe seriousness was the problem, it mattered when I fucked up.

Oh well, I've come to the conclusion I'm crap at relationships, the harder I try the more I fuck up and the less I try the more successful I seem. If I haven't fathomed relationships at my age, it's not going to happen. I know all the theory, it's the fucking practice that is beyond me!

I need a little Leonard Cohen for cathartic reasons.

PE its only too late at the RIP stage. Try learning the art of feeling a relaxed failure in this department. [self acceptance]
Lighten up, in the knowledge that some matters are too important to take seriously ( like relationships and parenting). [ apply this to oneself]
and
Remember R D Laings statement on personal development

THE RANGE OF WHAT WE THINK AND DO IS LIMITED BY WHAT WE FAIL TO NOTICE;

AND BECAUSE WE FAIL TO NOTICE,THAT WE FAIL TO NOTICE;

THERE IS LITTLE THAT WE CAN DO TO CHANGE ,

UNTIL WE NOTICE HOW FAILING TO NOTICE
IS SHAPING ( and limiting the range of) OUR THOUGHTS AND DEEDS

[ProjectEuropa]

PE its only too late at the RIP stage.

Too true Donatien. Hope springs eternal.

But to get the thread back on track, of valued human traits, I would put forward REALISM for several reasons. It stops ones expectations being too high and hence prevents disappointment. It is also unfair to deny people the same human flaws and frailties one recognises in oneself. No matter how much you adore someone or how high the pedestal you put them on, they are human and it's grossly unfair to expect too much of them. I lost my personal compass and denied someone had such flaws and frailties, I blamed them for it, when really it was my unrealistic expectations that were to blame. I was a fool to myself and unjust to her so definitely REALISM. From there other things can follow.

[Nightstriker]

*looks around.*

Wow I never though I would be getting so many responses from such a small question.

All of these are great and rather informative. Just like the entirety of this forums.

Again my thanks.