The accpetance of snuff in stories

[abitbent]

We all have opinions of what BDSM should and shouldn't encompass, and far be it from me to push my views on others by telling them that they have to think a certain way when it comes to BDSM. That said it seems to me that the mantra of Safe, Sane and Consentual has always been a rule of thumb in this community, and i fail to see how stories on this board that include snuff have anything to do with any of those three. I understand that fantasy writings here can often blurr the line of safety and consentuality, because they are just stories after all, however how is it we draw the line at things like pedophelia, yet blatant depictions of outright murder are acceptable?

Does anyone else find it offensive that stories including non-consentual snuff are here falling under the banner of BDSM?


bent

[Rabbit1]

We all have opinions of what BDSM should and shouldn't encompass, and far be it from me to push my views on others by telling them that they have to think a certain way when it comes to BDSM. That said it seems to me that the mantra of Safe, Sane and Consentual has always been a rule of thumb in this community, and i fail to see how stories on this board that include snuff have anything to do with any of those three. I understand that fantasy writings here can often blurr the line of safety and consentuality, because they are just stories after all, however how is it we draw the line at things like pedophelia, yet blatant depictions of outright murder are acceptable?

Does anyone else find it offensive that stories including non-consentual snuff are here falling under the banner of BDSM?


bent

I am sure you will find many members who agree with you ---and I myself do not fine these stories appealing---drawing the line at pedophelia is something different ---it is so the site does not promote or accept--harmful acts on children--and also to cover the Owner of the sites butt---as there seems to be quite a crackdown on these type stories in the legal world---but back to the snuff stories ---what one person finds offensive --is anothers fantasy ---so we can all exercise our right not to read them if we find them offensive.

Just my opinion

[H Dean]

Before I begin, I will note that you did not suggest that offensive material be taken down or refused publication. Something I think it is important to note.

We all have opinions of what BDSM should and shouldn't encompass, and far be it from me to push my views on others by telling them that they have to think a certain way when it comes to BDSM....however how is it we draw the line at things like pedophelia, yet blatant depictions of outright murder are acceptable?

Does anyone else find it offensive that stories including non-consentual snuff are here falling under the banner of BDSM?


bent

I do not find it offensive. I don't generally read snuff tales, either. It's not my thing and I don't like it.

Further, as you said, BDSM practisioners tend to use the mantra of safe, sane and consensual. You don't seem offended by non-consentual, violent or stories involving scat or other potentially unsafe practices. According to the quoted mantra, if you subscribe to it, you should be offended by those, as well. At least, logically speaking.

As for pedophilia, that is another story entirely. As Rabbit said, the site owner is looking after the welfare of this site. The current situation makes such writings unsafe for sites like this and their owners.

The real question is, however, does something being offensive make it wrong or bad? And does something being merely offensive warrant it being removed? I would suggest that it does not.

[abitbent]

The real question is, however, does something being offensive make it wrong or bad?

Agreed, nobody is forcing me to read these stories and something offensive to one person may not be to another. To say it's wrong or bad is really subjective. However, I'd agree wholeheartedly with the opinions expressed if the website was called "fantasylibrary.com".

The very title of this website suggests that the stories you'll find here are all related to BDSM. Perhaps my view of BDSM is narrow, but I fail to see how murder is related to BDSM in any way. Either that, or the title of the website doesn't necessarily reflect the content found therin.

*shrugs*

bent

[Aesop]

Agreed, nobody is forcing me to read these stories and something offensive to one person may not be to another. To say it's wrong or bad is really subjective. However, I'd agree wholeheartedly with the opinions expressed if the website was called "fantasylibrary.com".

The very title of this website suggests that the stories you'll find here are all related to BDSM. Perhaps my view of BDSM is narrow, but I fail to see how murder is related to BDSM in any way. Either that, or the title of the website doesn't necessarily reflect the content found therin.

*shrugs*

bent

I see your point, but let's say you buy a 'vannila' sex mag and there are stories in it. Now these stories usually exaggerate sex into the realms of the fantastic. You know-then the 6 foot blonde Scandanavian triplets came over and joined the acrobat twins with me in the bedroom and we did it all night long. It's sex, but in epic proportions. Snuff, non-consent, and other violent fantasy stories do the same thing with BDSM here. They take something we all enjoy and push it to the extremes. They are based in BDSM, but loosely based and as unbelivable as the blonde triplet/acrobat twins scenario. So in the long run it's all fantasy and with all the disclaimers everywhere I don't see a need to police it anymore than we do with 'vanilla' sex mags.

[Rabbit1]

I see your point, but let's say you buy a 'vannila' sex mag and there are stories in it. Now these stories usually exaggerate sex into the realms of the fantastic. You know-then the 6 foot blonde Scandanavian triplets came over and joined the acrobat twins with me in the bedroom and we did it all night long. It's sex, but in epic proportions. Snuff, non-consent, and other violent fantasy stories do the same thing with BDSM here. They take something we all enjoy and push it to the extremes. They are based in BDSM, but loosely based and as unbelivable as the blonde triplet/acrobat twins scenario. So in the long run it's all fantasy and with all the disclaimers everywhere I don't see a need to police it anymore than we do with 'vanilla' sex mags.

Hey can I borrow the 6 foot blonde Scandanavian triplets this weekend

[Aesop]

Hey can I borrow the 6 foot blonde Scandanavian triplets this weekend

I dunno . . .they might kill you.

[Ozme52]

I think you're splitting hairs... Lot's of accepted BDSM artists illustrate tortures and abuses far beyond what is acceptable within the lifestyle, from mutilation to meathook suspensions and decapitations.

No one questions that those are not part of the BDSM art scene... snuff is just one of the many logical endpoints for any story that begins non-consensual... maybe even a few consensual scenes that end with a surprise.

[adeadeasyone]

I understand that fantasy writings here can often blurr the line of safety and consentuality, because they are just stories after all, however how is it we draw the line at things like pedophelia, yet blatant depictions of outright murder are acceptable?

Does anyone else find it offensive that stories including non-consentual snuff are here falling under the banner of BDSM?

I'd agree there...Incest is something I try to avoid like the plague too.

[mkemse]

I have no issue with NC stories, however i do not believe that snuff stories are accetable, buti speak only formyself on this, this is all about fantasy, and pedophilia and snuff have NO place on this or other Erotic Web Sites

[Rabbit1]

I have no issue with NC stories, however i do not believe that snuff stories are accetable, buti speak only formyself on this, this is all about fantasy, and pedophilia and snuff have NO place on this or other Erotic Web Sites

Well snuff has a home here ---I suggest you just do not read the ones with that in the story code

[abitbent]

Well snuff has a home here ---I suggest you just do not read the ones with that in the story code

Well Rabbit you've done a great job since the takeover and i'm sure administering this whole thing is more work that it seems... so certainly a heartfelt thanks for that...


My initial post didn't ask how i was going to avoid these stories, hence your suggestion, but again, merely expressed that if this site is going to promote bdsm through online writings, it's representation of bdsm should be more accurate by not including snuff.

Again... let me state one more time for those who seem to have all the answers... i know nobody is making me come here and read these stories. That said, associating snuff with bdsm offends me as a man who's sexuality identifies as kinky or D/s or submissive.

It's like promoting a magazine, who's theme is homosexuality, and inside there are pages of men having sex with animals. As long as the animals are the same sex as the males, does this somehow qualify it as acceptable content under the homosexual banner?

I'm simply saying i'm offended that snuff is being expressed here as part of bdsm.

[H Dean]

It's like promoting a magazine, who's theme is homosexuality, and inside there are pages of men having sex with animals. As long as the animals are the same sex as the males, does this somehow qualify it as acceptable content under the homosexual banner?

I'm simply saying i'm offended that snuff is being expressed here as part of bdsm.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

It is an illogical thing to be offended as snuff is not being expressed as part of BDSM. Snuff is being expressed as a part of stories which also contain BDSM. Essentially, BDSM is something that is expected to be in most stories. The rest (other themes) is just garnish to the BDSM.

Incidentally, you should also be offended by any BDSM oriented story which contains anything not BDSM related because, according to your logic, any BDSM story that incorporates other factors is depicting those other factors as a part of BDSM. It's simply not the case.

[Ozme52]

You are comparing apples and oranges.

And if that's not a fruity remark....

[Aesop]

Again... let me state one more time for those who seem to have all the answers... i know nobody is making me come here and read these stories. That said, associating snuff with bdsm offends me as a man who's sexuality identifies as kinky or D/s or submissive.

I'm simply saying i'm offended that snuff is being expressed here as part of bdsm.

As supermod I get at least two pm's a week (just got another one last night) with complaints about some story that is offensive to the reader and I always give roughly the same answer: Sorry it offends you, but if you don't like it, read something else.

Snuff has nothing to do with the real practice of BDSM. And most cops don't kill a guy every week. And most doctors don't have horribly interesting and life changing cases every week. And most people's lives aren't anywhere near as interesting as the lives of our tv people. Those shows are loosely based on reality with elements to make them more interesting to the viewer. Same goes with the snuff stories. They're BDSM stories with elements to make them more interesting to the readers who enjoy reading about snuff. So I still don't see how having snuff in a story makes it any more or less a BDSM story than having say...rape in the story. Or incest. Or threesomes. Or blowjobs. Or...you get my point? BDSM stands for Bondage, Discipline, Sadism and Masochism. Or even Bondage, Discipline, Domination and Submission, Sadism and Masochism if you like. D/s stands for dominance/submission. So anything outside of those definitions really isn't BDSM either, it's simply extra stuff to liven up the story. No pun intended.

[Aesop]

I have no issue with NC stories, however i do not believe that snuff stories are accetable, buti speak only formyself on this, this is all about fantasy, and pedophilia and snuff have NO place on this or other Erotic Web Sites

You say you speak only for yourself and then make a blanket statement that it shouldn't be allowed. I dunno my friend-I'm confused.

[caged]

One comment on the idea that snuff stories are wrong, shouldn't be here, or whatever:

There is an awful lot of mainstream, big-selling literature that describes people being snuffed in loving, graphic detail, available in your local bookstore or library. Modern crime fiction is absolutely full of it.

At least here, those of us who like (or don't mind) snuff stories are honest about getting off on it.

[Ozme52]

One comment on the idea that snuff stories are wrong, shouldn't be here, or whatever:

There is an awful lot of mainstream, big-selling literature that describes people being snuffed in loving, graphic detail, available in your local bookstore or library. Modern crime fiction is absolutely full of it.

At least here, those of us who like (or don't mind) snuff stories are honest about getting off on it.

I made a similar point. It's very mainstream... thinking of several TV cop shows where they went after snuff film purveyors... and 8MM with Nick Cage, was a pretty successful movie based on snuff crimes.

[Ozme52]

heh heh.

[sylvia_ber]

I want to see snuff stories here even i don't read it. I don't mind seeing any kind of stories here. Yes, that includes child abuse too. If you don't like it, don't read it as is do. it is simple.

Sylvie

[Dick the Slaver]

It might be wise to replace snuff by murder, execution, cannibalism, crucifixion. Some people are scared by snuff.

[Rabbit1]

good idea Dick thanks

[gagged_Louise]

I don't mind rough descriptions of brutal pain or practices that could be lethal if you imitated them in the real world, we have to be able to separate that. I don't think a story would be very readable or effective if it culminated in killing, if that were the high point of the story. I'd probably feel disgusted if I read a BDSM story set in a nazi death camp and ending in the victim being killed, because that blurs the limit between real and fantasy.
Someone put it like this: a story about three Jewish girls in 1944 who are going to be interrogated and probably raped, now sitting in their Gestapo cell and teasing each other up with stories of what might happen to them in a few hours, and what's happening to their friend right now - that's much too far. But I don't mind stories of POWs, kidnap victims or cops tortured, brutalized and threatened with being killed by goons, even in a realistic setting, that's so generic ( I remmber reading astory years ago called In the line of Duty, about a girl being kidnapped and a police woman who runs into the abductors alone on the highway and is also taken captive in their pickup van,; for two days afterwards the two are kept tied up, whipped and used as sex slaves.

The story was a true turn-on and caught both the brutality of the bad guys, the fear and despair of the police woman and her growing realization that they were going to be killed like drowned cats (in the end, they were saved). No hint of consensus or pleasure on her part, but I loved it and wished it had been me, hands tied, on my knees, sweating, sucking a big dick and a pistol muzzle to my neck.

[_ID_]

Reading everyones posts about snuff and its potential to be offensive or not offensive.

Lets just sit back and look inward a moment shall we. BDSM in and of its self is perverse, its even offensive to those of the most conservative nature. So for someone to say that any particular splinter subject of Bondage Discipline Sadism Masochism is offensive is to me like calling the kettle black. Same goes with any other splinter subject (incest/rape/murder/cannibalism/pedophilia).

The main page has a disclaimer that indicates all stories are fictional. Therefore any story has the limitless ability of the author.

Sadists can be Sadistic without being in BDSM same as Masochists can be Masochistic without being in BDSM. Bondage can be bondage without being in BDSM as well as Discipline can be Discipline without being in BDSM.

Let us look at some examples.

Sadist - One who enjoys inflicting pain on another. This person could be a bouncer, or a boxer.

Masochist - One who enjoys pain. This person could be a surfer, a rock climber, or even a boxer.

Bondage - The act of restraint on someone. This could simply be the captivity of prisoners.

Discipline - The act of punishment. This could be something along the lines of punishing a student for being tardy to class.

Now none of those examples I used are related to BDSM, the activity we enjoy of BDSM is more of a fetish interest, having a sexual basis. So now that we are moving into a fetish, your opening the door for everyone else's fetish.

Now we must ask about limiting ones fetish in a fantasy realm. I know I don't want someone to limit my ability to explore in literature a fetish I enjoy thinking and reading about. Do you want someone to limit your ability to read about your particular style of BDSM, Your fetish?

Remember, judge not, lest ye be judged.

V/R
ID

[Rabbit1]

LOL ---I agree seems the wrong place to get all rightous ---like entering a gay bar and yelling ---you are all perverts ----or a bikers bar and yelling all biker chicks are whores----but you know all kidding aside ---it is the freedom to do this that is so great ---and there are always those people who want to control what others see and hear ----- always will be ----but as long as we are free we can agree on disagreeing ---lol

an like all this is not on TV every day ---kids getting killed on weekly shows---and in real life on the news---if you are offended --you do have the right to turn the TV off or in this case go to another story or even site that you do not find this offensive material on ----and if you can not seperate Fantasy from reality ---you have been watching Survivor too much on TV---lol

[pttwyn]

I agree snuff doesn't do it for me at all. And now --BUT-- some people want to write that and it should not be censored. I would not let it stop me from reading a story that looked interesting. If it was the only aspect in a story I would probably pass it by. When I wrote Kari in Training I wrote a snuff section in Kari 2. which is not up yet. My stopper is incest, I refuse to read any incest stories.
pttwyn

[Avralivia]

Im of the opinion that this is an adult site - in every sense of the word, that mostly revolves around our darkest fantasies, I think that all stories if well written should be put up, censorship is a scourge amongst society, at least here we supposedly are allowed to express and be at one with the side of ourselves that we have to mainly supress elsewhere.

Please people dont get bogged down in, i dont like this issues and inflicting your morality and likes on others, that makes you just as bad as people that would judge you as a subversive freak.... surely?

p.s. i am not in any way stating my opinion on snuff, in fact i am not going to state if i would read it or not, its beside the point, and by saying *no i dont like it* *or yes i do like it* would be giving credence to the whole issue.

I have said my peace, be happy people

[Widget]

As Avraliva said, this is an adult site. We don't have to read, enjoy or agree with anything that is written here. My personal opinion is irrelevant because if we removed everything we all find disgusting we would have nothing at all to post besides stories of missionary sex for god and country.

Snuff did however bring us one of the funniest tv moments ever in Futurama, when the crew is sentanced to death by snu snu (sexual intercourse with the Amazons resulting in crushed pelvises)

Fem-puter: After lengthy femputations, I, Femputer, have decided the fate of the men. Femputer sentences them to death... (everyone gasps) by snoo snoo!
Fry and Captain Zapp Brannigan: Yeah! Woo-hoo!!
(Kif starts sobbing)
Captain Zapp Brannigan: What are you? Gay?

Fry: Goodbye friends. I never thought I'd die this way. But I'd always really hoped.

[Rabbit1]

This is the correct way of looking at things ---where would censorship stop if it started ---next week someone might not like water sports ---and then maybe pregnant might offend some one ---then hey he might not want to see any slavery ---then she might not like cbt----best way to stop censorship is not to start it ----don't like it ---don't read it ----just like the TV your computer has an off button

[Jeanne F]

IMHO just because the Library is called 'BDSM' does not make it an exclusive repository of BDSM feelgood tales, recipes and recollections (not to mention braggings). If I was to ban anything from the site it would be the lifestyle sections which do not belong in a library! Fiction it is, fiction it should be, and censorship of any kind squelches fiction.

Now I agree people should be warned about what they read. My own collection does not use the usual abbreviations to indicate content, but a limited list of common turn-offs - I call it the SQUICK system for Snuff, Queer, Underage, Incest, Critters and Kaviare. Sometimes i'm in the mood to push the envelope re a given turn-off, sometimes not. I see it as a pity that the 'real world' effectively killed the 'underage' posting on this site, certainly any such posting purporting to reflect real facts or encourage real deeds should be investigated to the utmost, but pure fiction is harmless.

Still IMHO, bad grammar and punctuation are worse turnoffs than snuff! I do not find snuff enjoyable per se but its occurrence in a tale helps setting a very peculiar atmosphere. More abandon, if you like... nothing to lose... including for the victim... There's a pic by Zerosen which illustrates this well by showing a sentenced witch who - seemingly of her own will - blows her executioner as another one burns off her nipples... ah well, enough said, this an academic discussion after all!