S.S.C. Or R.A.C.K.?

[Aesop]

So are you a Safe, Sane, and Consensual person or a Risk Aware Consensual Kink kind of person?

S.S.C. has been around a long time and most of the community knows what it means and how to use it as a blanket when those vanilla folks call us perverts, but I don't know if it fits to be honest and I never have.


Safe and Sane are subjective terms so what they mean to me they don't have to mean to anybody else. I may consider wrapping my girl up in saran wrap from neck to feet, dumping her on the bed and then going out for a walk safe. I may not consider that safe. Sane is the same kind of thing. Am I sane after one beer? Two? Four? You just never know.

Now R.A.C.K. hasn't been around as long as S.S.C. but I think it describes what we're about much better than it's older brother. We all take risks doing what we do and knowing that is a good thing. What we do isn't really safe, it's risky, but as long as you know the risks you can prepare for them. That's where the aware part comes in. Be aware of the risks. Consensual is in both and that makes sense because without consent it's rape and that's all. Finally we have kink which I like because there's no question that what we do is kinky.

So what does everybody else think or do you even care?

[Ruby]

SSC or RACK

Neither is a perfect description or slogan.

Both have their faults if we pick apart the individual words.
Aesop, you mentioned the words "sane and sane" as being subjective in SSC.

I often pull out the words "risk and aware" in RACK.
Are both players really "aware" of the "risks"?
Do they understand that a single tail whip can caress the skin or shred it?
Do they know that the same whip can cause muscle damage?
Are they "aware" that some of the activities they are doing may lead to injury or death?
Do they care?

Those phrases are valuable in many ways and while not perfect may be used to define a person's playtime philosophy.

[Aesop]

SSC or RACK

Neither is a perfect description or slogan.

Both have their faults if we pick apart the individual words.
Aesop, you mentioned the words "sane and sane" as being subjective in SSC.

I often pull out the words "risk and aware" in RACK.
Are both players really "aware" of the "risks"?
Do they understand that a single tail whip can caress the skin or shred it?
Do they know that the same whip can cause muscle damage?
Are they "aware" that some of the activities they are doing may lead to injury or death?
Do they care?

Those phrases are valuable in many ways and while not perfect may be used to define a person's playtime philosophy.

No neither is perfect, but RACK is more descriptive and a better tool I think. The questions you asked can all be answered with definite answers except for the last one of course-and if they don't care they really aren't practicing BDSM as responsible folks see it. Actually with those words it begs those questions so I think that for those just starting out it's a great reference tool. With SSC the questions are often too ambiguous to have a direct answer. So while I see your point I still think RACK is the way to go.

[Ozme52]

The latter, because that's how it is in the vanilla world too. Do you ride a motorcycle, a horse, rollercoasters? Ever take a drink? (alcohol is afterall, a poison.)

All life has risk.

And kink? One *man's normal is another *man's kink. Just because our particular brand of kink is old and venerable (and first described in the classical era by DeSade and Masoch) makes it no more normal than those who prefer the more modern kinks.


(*man: short for humanoid, regardless of gender.)

[Ruby]

The latter, because that's how it is in the vanilla world too. Do you ride a motorcycle, a horse, rollercoasters? Ever take a drink? (alcohol is afterall, a poison.)

Excellent questions to consider and an interesting way at looking at the question.

And in these cases, the activity is consensual with one's self. (Okay - and the horse, too, I hope.)

Thus from your comments, if I con someone into riding a motorcycle with me, it could be considered a RACK activity.

That way of looking at it works for me.

Who's next?
Agree or disagree?
RACK or SSC?

[caged]

For me personally, I couldn't care less about the slogans. I'm not sure that they are necessary for bdsm participants to think about - surely we each negotiate our limits and so on from our own tolerance, desire and trust, not against a snappy 3 or 4 word phrase? And as for 'outsiders', I don't think we should be apologetic or try to sanitise what we do. It seems a little bit like the gay community trying to reassure those who disapprove by saying something like 'Don't worry, we hardly ever have anal sex, we mostly just kiss'.

Having given my own jaundiced view, maybe I can contribute something of value: I've posted this link before, but I don't know if anyone visited it. It's an interesting interview with the guy who actually coined the term 'safe, sane and consensual'.

http://www.sensuoussadie.com/intervi...ninterview.htm

One quote:

"...it wasn’t until a couple of years ago that i realized what a monster we had created. The only reason i ever tell anyone that i was the author is so i’ll have some authority when i explain what we meant by it back then — and what we didn’t mean by it. Above all, we weren’t trying to establish a ****ing credo! The idea that ‘safe sane consensual’ is used to define something like articles of faith s/m newbies are expected to absorb turns my stomach, especially when the people doing the defining are the kind who do s/m at a very tame, low level of intensity and think that’s where the boundaries should be set for everyone."

[_ID_]

In another thread people were discussing limits of a submissive, and how to change them. The point of SSC was brought up. I thought it would be interesting to begin a thread to this effect.

I believe SSC has its place, and when talking with a submissive you do not know, that being know her physical limits or her pain tollerances, it is best to practice SSC to avoid any unintentional harm. I say unintentional because smaking somones butt with a flogger still hurts, but it was wanted.

So onto SSC vs. RACK.

I read an article written by a fellow BDSM lifestyler who wrote a very good article on SSC and RACK and how the BDSM community seems to me, and to this fellow to over emphasise SSC.

See each persons limits and what they believe to be safe varies as much as do the places in what they each of us finds appealing. So who is to say what is SSC? That I feel is strickly between the two people who are going to enjoy whatever activity they want. If a submissive can convince me that is Sane and Safe to wrap her breasts in rope till they turn purple, and I am willing to do that to her. That is SSC. To a person that sees the discolored nature of the breasts, they may find this very unsafe. We all know that done correctly this is certanly ok to do. So now that brings us to RACK. What is RACK, well it is defined as Risk Aware Consensual Kink. So if I am aware of the risks of putting a womans breasts into bondage till they turn purple, and she wants it. Isn't this also RACK?

Feel free to use other fine examples of SSC vs. RACK.

If people want I can give you the weblink to the article, but since I don't know who they link to I won't post it here.

V/R
ID

[Aesop]

I started another thread on this a bit ago. I'm too lazy to go find the link right now, but I prefer R.A.C.K. myself. To me it represents our lifestyle better because it puts the responsibility on the indivuduals practicing bdsm instead of pretending that everything we do is "safe". I'm careful when I dom, but I'm also only human and can make a mistake as easily as the next guy. Luckily so far I've never made a big one, but it could happen and R.A.C.K. lets everybody know there is a risk involved in playing our way.

[Ruby]

Aesop's thread is here:

Poll: S.S.C. Or R.A.C.K.?
http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4322

Perhaps a mod can merge these.

[Silke]

Thank you, Ruby, for finding Aesop's thread. I agree that they're close enough together to merge them and there's a lot of interesting things on the topic been said in the other thread that might give more food for thought.

So, here you go, guys...have fun - be it SSC or RACK

[Aesop]

Yeah here it is. Thanks ladies.

[_ID_]

Thanks for merging the threads, and thanks for making it a poll. It will be interesting to see how the votes go.

[her_Joe]

I'm the poster who voted "other," not because I can't make up my mind but because the situation (see conversation preceding this) is too damn complicated to be realistically described by an acronym.

My preference, if pushed, if for RACK, but in practice explained in the relationship by a contract that is based on a BDSM checklist. I'm a big fan of those! They tend to get rid of much of the ambiguity in "play time."

hJ

[Rhabbi]

I still l prefer SSC. there are problems, and the definitions are flexible, but it is the old school term that I learned, and I will stick with it.

[Ocean_Soul]

SSC or RACK? Both are good, although I haven't heard of RACK up until this thread. To me they are both simply ways of stating an idea rather than a rule to follow. If someone asks who doesn't know a whole lot I might say "Well, we practice Safe Sane and Consensual so this kink really isn't that bad." But between me and a submissive I trust my logic and reason and use that as a benchmark rather than some acronym. Questions would come up between us "is this something we want?" "Is it worth the risk" not “well is this SSC or RACK?”

So basically they are good ways to generalize the idea but in the end I think each of us are intelligent enough, or should be, to use reason as a benchmark.

So back to the original question, SSC or RACK? SSC only by virtue of the fact that it’s older.

[cariad]

I prefer SSC I think because it fits better with a lurking pedantic streak I have which emerges when I am asked to consider such things.

As OS has said, in practice I doubt whether any of us stops and uses either term when we are considering a certain activity, rather we consider the ideas and principles behind the terms; which means they are for use in more general discussion only.

Both include consensual, which I believe it paramount, and I would prefer to think that we take a considered intelligent approach (i.e. sane) rather than just be aware. The aforementioned pedant has to point out that simply being aware does not necessarily indicate considered or balanced use of that awareness.

Both are functional terms though, and if I had never heard of SSC I am sure I would feel quite happy with RACK.

cariad