How Much Should Grammar And Spelling Weight With A Review?

[Widget]

How willing are you to overlook grammar and spelling errors if the basic plot is good and the story is otherwise engaging?

I am just curious. Personally I read very fast so I can grasp the meaning and context of a paragraph without letting minor errors ruin the enjoyment of a story for me. Bigger more glaring errors though are more difficult for me to over look though as it ruins the flow of the story.

[chattel69]

The minor stuff is easy to over look but when it comes to trying to read through the story it loses it's appeal. Formating of the story is another problem I have, font size, color, it all leads to ease in reading.

I'm not the best at grammar so I try and give people a break but if you know you have an issue, ask for help. There a lot of friendly and helpful people here who I am sure wouldn't give it a second thought to proof a story.

[Timberwolf]

Small grammar errors, like for example confusing their there and they're, I don't mind that. I make my fair share myself. Just the other day on another forum I used the word "paordy" when I meant to use "parity" just because they are spelled similarly. If it's kept under check that's not a problem, everyone makes an error now and again. The one that trips me up a lot personally is when to use "its" or "it's".

If the sentence structure is genuinely bad (meaning it looks like a seventh grade english class project), or if there are a lot of spelling errors all over, I won't read it.

[maddie]

Poor formatting drives me bonkers. Spelling and grammar errors tend to jump out at me, so if there's a lot of them, I often won't finish a story, because they bug me too much. Even the best of writers miss things now and then, though, and I try to focus more on the story than the grammar and spelling.

I won't even bother reading a poorly formatted story.

[pttwyn]

I have to agree with Maddie, I can't finish a really poorly done story.
It drives me off the deep end too. I use MSWord with spell and grammar check. So it's not hard to do.
Lately I've started to like these little smiley face things and probably really overuse them.
Sorry I couldn't resist.
Pttwyn

[Widget]

Oh lord don't get me started on formatting. I won't finish a story that is done badly either. Someone submitted one with the text on a green back ground. It was brutal. I won't even read a web page with bad formatting nevermind a story.

[Tojo]

I would have to admit poor spelling & grammar is one of my pet hayts.

Having left school at 15, I'm hardly well educated, yet I keep a dictionary next to me & a Thesauras. I also use Word to write anything more than half a page. Actually that was the reason I bought a PC- even more so than porn.

To me it's sheer laziness to not check your spelling. I won't stand for it with my girls, that's for sure.

A WP is a wonderful wonderful thing.

If someone is from a non English speaking country, yes I can overlook it. Otherwise it usually detracts from anything I read, even posts on a forum.

Too many mistakes & I stop reading. As for formatting- a page of solid text with no paragraph breaks & I have to copy & format to read it!

Even a post that goes on without spaces or paragraphs I usually get lost half way through or just don't bother.

Spelling, grammar & formatting? Don't get me started!!

[Rabbit1]

Well here is my two cents worth again ----Grammer and formatting is important---but if you read the in the authors forum how stories are published here you will see that some of the formatting is beyond the authors control ---especially a new author ----so it is like this before I really come down on a author ---I look at how many stories he or she has writen---

Hey guys cut a new author a break ---I have seen some review just come down so hard on new authors ---if you do constructive critism that is fine like hey your story was good but the spelling errors distracted from it ----then the author learns from it and is not put off or gives up ---

Next I have seen where english was not the authors first language ---and they were jumped on for grammar errors---spelling----and if they wrote the story in their language they get it for not posting in english ---those authors can not win---


I try first to look at the story ---does it flow ---am I intrerested it the subject and does it hold my intrest----That is the most important part of any story ----Grammar and formatting can be fixed ---a poor story can not

now lets take it like it really is ---this is a free site ---the stories are free ---the authors work for free----if you really want literary masterpieces go to your local library or to one of the pay sites where authors get paid for their work ---if you pay for a story and it is full of grammar and format errors ---Then Bitch you head off ---other wise you should give the poor author a break ---not all of us are english teachers --and most people read the stories to get off anyway ----so grammar and format is not that important ---lol

Yes we have some super authors ---their grammar is perfect and so is their formatting ---but if you look most have posted a few stories too---People are not born to write they have to learn ----I see a lot of story updates come thru correcting spelling and grammar errors ----and I see alot of new authors that never submit another story ---they got put off by such harsh reviewes

Can you read the story ---do you understand what the author is trying to say ---is it interesting ---those are the main points in my reviews of a new author ---and experienced author ---I do look at a little harder ---I do expect more from them

I have read some of the great litary Authors early works ----I am talking about well known authors ---and quite frankly some of it does not look any better than the new authors we have here

and to be truthful some of the good authors today would be lost without spellcheck and a good proof reader --- My publisher sends my work back to me sometimes with big red circles ---and suggestions in the margins ---in the novels I have submitted for publishing ----sometime it take two or three submissions before I get one published ---but by the time the readers see it --it is damn near perfect ---what you are seeing here is authors work in the raw

[Aussiegirl1]

I have to say that I don't mind a few errors and if the story holds my interest, I can overlook them. I know as an author I try hard to find any errors in my work, but even with spellcheck, there are some you just don't see.

I agree with Rabbit about new authors. I will check how many stories someone has done before I decide how to review a story. I was lucky that though my early stories had errors that I hate to think about now, I still got positive and helpful reviews, with some suggestions on how to improve. This certainly gave me the encouragement to go on.

[H Dean]

I tend to agree with Aussiegirl, over all. A few mistakes are bound to be part of a story. So long as they aren't overly common and don't hinder the flow of a story it will barely register with my rating score. It will, however, be mentioned in my review so as to make the author aware of their mistakes.

On the other hand, if the mistakes cause the story to flow poorly it can severely hamper my rating and review of a story. Presentation is as important as the ideas being expressed. A great story can be ruined by poor flow due to grammatical and spelling miscues.

What really gets me is when a story has been gone over with a spell check routine, while not being edited. This is usually pretty obvious since it means incorrect words will be used with a fair frequency. This is something I have no tolerance for. It stinks of laziness and a complete lack of respect for the art of writing, their own story and the reader. If the author does not respect these things enough to edit their story properly then they get no respect from me and I will review their story appropriately.

But then, I am sort of a prick.

[Rabbit1]

I tend to agree with Aussiegirl, over all. A few mistakes are bound to be part of a story. So long as they aren't overly common and don't hinder the flow of a story it will barely register with my rating score. It will, however, be mentioned in my review so as to make the author aware of their mistakes.

On the other hand, if the mistakes cause the story to flow poorly it can severely hamper my rating and review of a story. Presentation is as important as the ideas being expressed. A great story can be ruined by poor flow due to grammatical and spelling miscues.

What really gets me is when a story has been gone over with a spell check routine, while not being edited. This is usually pretty obvious since it means incorrect words will be used with a fair frequency. This is something I have no tolerance for. It stinks of laziness and a complete lack of respect for the art of writing, their own story and the reader. If the author does not respect these things enough to edit their story properly then they get no respect from me and I will review their story appropriately.

But then, I am sort of a prick.

lol that is one of my nick names too ---but I tend to point out the errors and try to encourage the author to fix them instead of discourage him ----Of course that is why I took the time to start a little training course for new writers ----and any of our older authors who can spare some time are welcome to help out ----there ---there is plenty of intrest in learning --but so far not much intrest in instructing

[Eryn]

Greetings. Though I'm relatively new to the forum I hope y'all won't mind if I put in a cent or two. I do a bit of editing and ghost writing on the side and can say from sharp lessons learned that mispellings and poor grammer are *never* acceptable in a finished product. If a story is put up for review then the author is essentially saying, "Okay, I'm done. This is the best it can be."

I've found that all too often there's a rush to post/publish/present and that adequate editing and revision have not taken place. The best advice I can offer is to cool your jets and read over your work another hundred times. Read it aloud, read it backwards, have someone else read it to you ... do whatever it takes to at least make sure your copy is functionally correct. Content may be subjective but proper spelling and grammer are not.

That being said, it should also be noted that we all make mistakes, typos and use the wrong word in the wrong place at times. All you can do is take the hit and try harder next time.

[aree]

Another set of eyes can be very valuable. I do a fair bit of writing when the mood strikes me and I know there have been times that I have passed over a mistake because my eyes just don't see it. Eryn will catch it quickly and point it out, which sometimes makes me grumpy, but he knows his stuff.

[Widget]

Personally I would want constructive feedback for my writing as I want to be able to do the best job I can and develop as far as I can. Even if all I ever did was publish to a free site such as this I would still want to improve on each and every story I submitted and feedback is what I would need to do it.

I see some reviewers do some very harsh reviews on authors and sometimes it seems to me that while they are using the grammar and spelling as the reason for a bad review it is really the content of the story they hate. When I think about a review I try to be objective and give the kind of feedback I would want to receive to become better.

I have seen some authors ask for the type of reviews they wish to receive, critical, all comments welcome or please be gentle with my baby. Haha perhaps this is something that can be incorporated into the submission process so that reviewers have a direction in which to go when they are doing one for a story.

[Eryn]

"I have seen some authors ask for the type of reviews they wish to receive, critical, all comments welcome or please be gentle with my baby. Haha perhaps this is something that can be incorporated into the submission process so that reviewers have a direction in which to go when they are doing one for a story."

I think that's actually a very good idea -- if one wants to be reviewed then ask for the type of feedback that one would like to receive. One has to bear in mind though that different people (potential reviewers) like different things much as different authors write in different styles. Thus any review or critique is going to be colored by the reviewers' preferences ... with the possible exception being grammar, spelling and formatting, lol. (This is one reason formatting should be standardized and that spelling and grammar be eliminated as any possible issue so that only the content is subject to comment.)

A few years back I wrote a 19 part story (serial I guess it was/is) which combined the elements of witchcraft and bdsm. I've never posted the whole story for various reasons but what I did do with those I've shared it with was to let them read a part at a time and then ask what they thought of certain things about it. Things like: What did you think of this character? How did you like that scene? How did you feel when you read such and such? Basically what I was trying to do was to find out how closely they saw or felt what it was that I'd intended to be seen or felt from what and/or how I'd written said part.

What I discovered is that the more specific you are in your questions the better the feedback. Superlatives tell you nothing substantial. "It was wonderful, great. Loved it." Nor do negatives. "I hated it, it sucked." However, when you get something like, "Yeah, I really got a charge when the twins changed clothes in the kitchen without him knowing. " Or, "What exactly was it he did with the midget chick?" It's then you've got something to work with.

Critiques and reviews can be wonderful things if it helps you improve something you want to improve but not all stories are written and presented with that in mind. Perhaps there should be a category of, "This story is for fun -- no review necessary."

[Rabbit1]

Not long after I took over the publishing of stories here I was contacted by email by a long time author ----who complained about the quality of the stories now being published ---covering up his fine work ---

He also complained that I was publishing stories too often ---so his work did not get the number of hits that it used to when publishing was done on a hit or miss basis

It then occurred to me that maybe his stories were not so great ---maybe they got a lot of hits because there was little choice of new things to read ---that if his work was truely great that it would be a shinning expample of how to write for the other new authors.

Then I came up with the Idea for the Writer's Block forum ---instead of complaining about the new authors and their stories why not try to guide them in the right direction ---Now I am going to tell you I read some of this authors stories and they are good ----so I offered this author a chance to change the way new stories are writen by giving me a hand in this new instructional forum----guess what ---this author does not have time for that --only has time to complain ----Like a lot of our "experienced" authors they would rather give a flaming bad review then take the time to offer guidance to the newbies----

So I have challenged our great authors ---to give alittle back ---to volunteer a little of their time to help guide new authors ---if you are interested contact me ---My little instructional program is not perfect ---and I could use some imput from others ---but it is better than nothing

[MsUther]

I found that authours spoiled reaction to be hilarious!

[her_Joe]

I've read this whole thread and guess I'm going to be in a minority here. I don't take exception when a post is written with errors, but I really get turned off when I read a story and find grammar/spelling/format mistakes that are of the kind to interrupt the flow of the tale.

I don't mean split infinitives and most dangling modifiers. I'm talking about fragments, a confusion between "then" and "than," faulty parallelism ... stuff that makes nonsense of an idea.

This isn't because I'm a snob. It's because I'm a writer and I take what I do seriously. I edit and revise and edit again whether I'm paid for the words or not. I check spelling and punctuation because I respect my reader and am flattered s/he would spend their time on my stuff. I want to make their time enjoyable and I want them to respect me and what I've written.

There are many ways to destroy credibility with the reader. One of the easiest is mechanical sloppiness. One of the easiest to avoid is mechanical sloppiness.

I have one chance to "sell" my words and ideas to the reader ... and I wouldn't show up on a sales call with my fly unzipped or in a dirty shirt. That kind of carelessness tells the "buyer" that I don't respect them. I want to flatter the reader so s/he knows that I care what s/he thinks and how s/he responds. So I check my spelling. I check my grammar. I check the formatting.

That doesn't mean that I don't make mistakes. Many slip by. But I've found that I can catch most of them by reading the story in reverse, one sentence at a time. I can catch them by reading paragraphs out of sequence. And I can catch them by sending them to my editor, a patient woman who goes ballistic when I do something stupid to disrupt my characters or logic. I edit hers for her, and she does mine for me.

It's the least I can do. If I only have time to do a quick draft and don't like it well enough to edit it, or don't have the time to edit it at the moment, then it goes in the files of stuff to be revised. I don't inflict it on a poor reader whose only sin has been to trust that I might have something mildly entertaining to offer.

Rabbit's pleas for editors is important. All writers, beginning or advanced or professional, need editors ... people who read and expect excellence. Those who are willing need to be taught new ways and have their errors highlighted. I know when I submit for the first time to the Library story boards I'll be grateful (though aggravated with myself) to have mistakes pointed out.

Many here have been willing to encourage new writers to keep with it and to show their efforts. I'll join in. It's important to try out the best you can do -- this is a great venue to get feedback in harmless ways. But you can make sure that people focus on your story, rather than on your mechanics, by taking care of it before you submit.

hJ

[StillBehindBlueEyes]

her_Joe I have one chance to "sell" my words and ideas to the reader ... and I wouldn't show up on a sales call with my fly unzipped or in a dirty shirt. That kind of carelessness tells the "buyer" that I don't respect them. I want to flatter the reader so s/he knows that I care what s/he thinks and how s/he responds. So I check my spelling. I check my grammar. I check the formatting.

That doesn't mean that I don't make mistakes. Many slip by. But I've found that I can catch most of them by reading the story in reverse, one sentence at a time. I can catch them by reading paragraphs out of sequence. And I can catch them by sending them to my editor, a patient woman who goes ballistic when I do something stupid to disrupt my characters or logic. I edit hers for her, and she does mine for me.

I guess I don't actually see myself selling my work here. I was chatting with H Dean the other day, (we know what side of this issue he is on.) I realized my question for the reader is not was it correct grammatically, it's did you get a thrill, did you cum?

Now my vanilla work is something totally different.

I just don’t find myself able to give the time to my erotica that I would to my vanilla work. I’m giving it away for free. Is it really realistic to expect me to find an editor for something I will never admit to writing? Something I will never be paid for?

When I get a free gift I expect a string attached, the string for reading free erotica might just be imperfect work.

[H Dean]

I guess I don't actually see myself selling my work here. I was chatting with H Dean the other day, (we know what side of this issue he is on.) I realized my question for the reader is not was it correct grammatically, it's did you get a thrill, did you cum?.

And herein lies the crux of the matter. But who can cum when they have to review multiple lines in a story just to get the gist? Who can cum when the errors are so frequent that one begins looking for the mistakes?

That's the stuff that bugs me. If the errors make me lose the mood it ain't good. That sort of thing can only come from laziness and I cannot respect that or offer encouragement, unless it is clearly due to the author writing in a language foreign to them.

[StillBehindBlueEyes]

And herein lies the crux of the matter. But who can cum when they have to review multiple lines in a story just to get the gist? Who can cum when the errors are so frequent that one begins looking for the mistakes?
.

I so hate it when he's right but I'm still not asking Mom to edit my porn.

I really can see the point and on my smaller works have had no complaints that I can remember. I love the idea from her_Joe

But I've found that I can catch most of them by reading the story in reverse, one sentence at a time.

I'm going to try that on the vanilla stuff first.
So if you read my stuff and the grammar drives you nuts forgive me. Maddie is editing it for me piece by piece and I'll post it when she's done. (Thanks again Maddie)

[Aussiegirl1]

And herein lies the crux of the matter. But who can cum when they have to review multiple lines in a story just to get the gist? Who can cum when the errors are so frequent that one begins looking for the mistakes?

That's the stuff that bugs me. If the errors make me lose the mood it ain't good. That sort of thing can only come from laziness and I cannot respect that or offer encouragement, unless it is clearly due to the author writing in a language foreign to them.

I too have to agree with this, especially as I am working on a story with H Dean at the moment! I know it will be a very well edited story.

Aussiegirl

[Ruby]

How willing are you to overlook grammar and spelling errors if the basic plot is good and the story is otherwise engaging?

Hmmmm... ratings are all about personal perception.
And yet, we do have tools to use to help us along the way.

The "numbers" associated with a rating are very easy to use. Yes, they are subjective and based on the opinion of the reader. I also believe they are important.

If the plot is good, the story is engaging and it isn't riddled with an error every paragraph, but has a fair amount of errors, then I might give it a 7. If the errors are a distraction, then I'll give it a lower number and suggest an editing refresh.

If an author has many common mistakes - and we all have our bad habits - then I might send a private note with some suggestions to make the story easier to read and enjoy.

There is nothing wrong with being a stickler for grammar and spelling, free site or not. That's why we have a rating system. However, there is something wrong with attacking an author versus making suggestions or offering to re-rate the story once it's refreshed.

I not want read stories writ bad and hard to figur out -
with sentences like that one.

Nor do I want to read stories that use text message type of spelling and grammar. That's a huge distraction.

I do want to read well written stories and encourage authors to do the best they can. Some of the best erotic stories I've ever read have been on this site. Those authors may not ever choose to be published, yet I'm so glad they took the time to write and share their work.

[StillBehindBlueEyes]

I not want read stories writ bad and hard to figur out -
with sentences like that one.

Ruby
I love it. Smiles

[Ruby]

Ruby
I love it. Smiles

Ty

I mean, "Thank you."

[Ruby]

Good point, H Dean,

I no get thrill when writ is distrakting from story.

Instead of coming, it gets me going, to another story, for satisfaction.

Her_Joe,

I understand your viewpoint.

Selling the reader and keeping them coming back for more is part of the thrill for me. I want my readers to be happy. If I'm writing "print and vibe" or "print and read with one hand material", then I hope its better than good for them.

Ruby

[maddie]

I am delighted to be of service, Sbbe! And I'm sorry I've been so slow with your story. Life has a way of getting in the way of pleasure sometimes.

I do enjoy editing and proofreading. Once things settle down a bit, I might just volunteer to do more.

[her_Joe]

Thanks, sbbe. I think you and I, and H. Dean, and Ruby, and Aussiegirl are pretty much in agreement actually. But what really pleases me is to see so many folk are actually willing to spend some passion on the issue.

I understand that most of us who write for pay (as often as possible, right? lol) spend extra effort to make certain that everything we submit is "just so" because a paycheck might be in the offing ... but writers who read and post to a thread like this one also have standards. And that doesn't mean necessarily stuffy.

I've kept a sentence as an extreme example of what offends me from a story I once tried to read (not here!) that said: "After I camd in her fac i still wanted fuckd her." (I read a few more sentences to see if it was an inept try at dialect. It wasn't.)

It is my opinion that, while someone is free to torture the language like that in the privacy of their own home, the exhibitionism of semi-literate drivel should result in the revocation of their poetic license and death by computer virus.

hJ

[Timberwolf]

To expect capital letters at the start of sentences, decent punctuation, and some grasp of paragraph stucture is all fine, and indeed should be demanded. These are basic grammatical rules that anyone trying to write should have a solid grasp of. Obvious spelling errors should also be caught easily, there isn't a decent word processor in the world that doesn't have a spell checker.

But c'mon, to get anal over a misuse of they're their or there on a free story site is just plain silly. It's nice when people always get it right, but slip ups are going to happen. Professional authors make use of profesiional editors for a reason. To expect that level of commitment from people who are writing for nothing in their spare time, on a site that's first goal is to get you horny and second goal is to tell a decent story (let's be frank, that *is* what the vast majority of the writing in the library is about, for better or worse) is almost off the charts funny to me.

[her_Joe]

But c'mon, to get anal over a misuse of they're their or there on a free story site is just plain silly. It's nice when people always get it right, but slip ups are going to happen. Professional authors make use of profesiional editors for a reason. To expect that level of commitment from people who are writing for nothing in their spare time, on a site that's first goal is to get you horny and second goal is to tell a decent story (let's be frank, that *is* what the vast majority of the writing in the library is about, for better or worse) is almost off the charts funny to me.

Sorry, Timberwolf. Your post slipped in while I was writing my last -- I certainly agree with you in principle ... it's not about minor errors, is it? Yet, I could easily disagree with your example ... I would notice a screw up in homonyms like their/they're/there (though I readily admit many folk wouldn't), or than/then, or to/two/too, and lots of other examples.

At the same time, I surely wouldn't lower my appreciation (or scoring) of a story just because the author misses an occasional word or two.

The question here has become:

if you want the reader aroused, if you want them to cum while they read your very horny porn, then do you really want them to be distracted by a slip up you can easily catch?

Another suggestion then, since sbbe liked the one about reading backwards -- if you know you typically goof up a specific homonym or usage, it doesn't take very long, does it, to run a search/replace for the word and decide if you've used it correctly? (I have to do that for several words I can never recall how to spell -- "achievement" is one, "judgment" is another -- did I get them right? lol)

The point is, if you write a lot, you know your weak spots ... not hard nor time-consuming to look for them.

hJ