Safewords and Safesigns

[cariad]

I am currently involved in a conversation in the chat room with someone who is fairly new to our lifestyle about safewords.

Do you think they are a good thing, and do you consider they add or subtract from playtimes? Does it make any difference if you know and trust the Dom/me you are playing with?

cariad

[Uncle_Ed]

As a witness to the conversation I can appreciate where cari is coming from here. I believe that safewords and signs should be in place whenever play is likely to get hard. I told cari-and the newcomer-that I don't use them as I play softly. This is true, but after some thought I realise that I have played in the past with safewords in operation.

I did so because I was exploring not only my sub's limits-but mine as well. It is so damned easy to get carried away in the heat of the moment. I've found this-as have we all in r/l-but have also just recently found it during some mild on-line inter-action for the first time.

It's easy here-you just turn away or log off-if you're able to. But that's another subject...

In r/l the limits of one partner may not reflect the limits of the other. Until such time that limits have been thoroughly explored and clearly delineated I think safewords are vital. Why not have them? Thats the question that puzzles me?

[_ID_]

My use of a safeword/action/signal applies when I play with someone I dont know well enough to judge their reactions to something. For instance, if I play with a submissive I have never played with before. Lets say just flogging is the activity. Well I employ a safeword, as well as a hand signal. This allows the submissive to feel as though they have a safety net, and are able to put forth the level of trust to be able to submit, so that they are able to achieve subspace. If they don't trust that they will be ok, they wont be able to achieve subspace. A safeword provides them that ability.

Safewords can also be used as a learning tool. I have come across submissives that even with a safeword, they will not say the safeword, they feel as though they have failed. Forcing them to say it by making the activity so intense that it becomes a need can be a scene all by its self.

V/R
ID

[Talia]

Safewords I have, but have yet to use them with my Dom. Sometimes I forget I have that "safety net". Usually, he can tell when I've had enough.

Trust in essential to playing with a dom or even a sub. I think Doms should have a safeword too. I'm not sure if it happens a lot but I'm sure there have been times when the dom wasn't comfortable moving ahead with an activity if he feels a certain level has been reached. (I hope that makes sense)

I feel that safewords are important as trust is. If safewords weren't used how can you trust your dom to know you have reached your limit? Even relationships, where the two have been together for years, I feel a safeword should still be apart of play.

SB

[her_Joe]

I won't "play" without safewords in place. They aren't there necessarily for if the session is too intense -- say, for example, that she's on the bench and gets a cramp. Yeah, I should notice it, but I'm more likely to be watching the muscles in her hips, back, neck, than the ones in her calf muscles. The safeword lets that get straightened out easily.

Yes, there are subs who won't use the safe word. That's fine. It's my job to know when anyway. But having it provides a level of security and trust that isn't there otherwise.

Ultimately, after we've been together for a long time -- say a RL year -- maybe we could abandon safewords as a symbolic level of trust. And during punishment, safewords aren't in effect because that's a whole other thing.

Not knowing the chat situation, my guess is that someone who doesn't see the need for safewords isn't used to playing hard. Perhaps someone who sees themselves as a "pain slut" but who hasn't been pushed hard enough just yet ... in which case s/he'll come around ... we hope safely!

hJ

[Tojo]

I think if you know each other there's no need for them. I can only see the point if you have a constant stream of new subs coming in the door & don't have trust & knowledge of each other.

Tojo

[maddie]

I think it's very difficult to get to a point where you know your partner so well that safewords aren't necessary. I almost never use mine, but I know I can if I need to. Fortunately, my husband seems to be pretty good, most of the time, at knowing how far to go.

For a new relationship, I'd absolutely insist on it.

[Sir_G]

I think they are an important part of the lifestyle. Especially important if you are just starting a relationship or playing in a multi player type scene (yes I know it is rare but nevertheless). In my experiece the partners I have had have never had to use it, but I think it gives the sub a safety net and a way of letting the Dom/Domme know that things are getting too intense.

Ultimately it comes down to choice and clear communication between couples. Communication is the lynch pin of any relationship, kink or vanilla.

[Timberwolf]

I think it depends somewhat on the activity.

For example, kindapping roleplays... a situation where no doesn't mean no if you're in character. I wouldn't ever enter one seriously without a safeword backup in place.

I've also encountered those who enjoy saying no and being ignored... even if it's a relatively "light" activity. Obvioulsy safeword is their only real safetey net there.

Usually, no means no of course. And more or less, I think it does a fine job. But having said that if someone asked for a safeword setup in any situation, I would never turn them down. I think I would always offer someone I was getting into a serious setup a safeword, even if I felt it was somewhat redundant, a a simple sign of good faith.

[Uncle_Ed]

Ultimately it comes down to choice and clear communication between couples. Communication is the lynch pin of any relationship, kink or vanilla.

Hey Gregsta!

What a great way of summing it up!

[Sir_G]

Thanks Ed. That's about as profound as I get I'm afraid lol.

[Ozme52]

Even if not for the sake of safety, it's great to have one.

There was another thread. The couple was having trouble because the dom was misreading the sub's reactions.

I/we suggested they add the safe word. Now that it exists, by not using it, there is no longer any confusion and the fun and games can continue... and both seem to be much happier.

For so many reasons, it's just smart to have one.

[Rabbit1]

The whole point is not trust of your partner ---when having fun it is possible to get carried away ---not intentionally ---but it does happen ---

I was talking to some one realitively new to the lifestyle ---she and her Dom were both new ---and she told me of a spanking she took while gagged ---I was horrified to say the least ---for one gags are for more experienced people in the lifestyle ---how can you utter a safe word if you are gagged?

now this was not a normal spanking with the hand --and even if it was the gag was not really a good idea ---for newbies----

Safe word are for a purpose ---one to help the Dom know when he or she is crossing the line of enjoyment to real pain that is too much for the sub.

the second reason is for the sub --to gain trust in the dom---that there is a safety net---that the Dom will stop the moment the safe word is used

And that I have found is a problem with newbies ----the see a few pictures or read a few stories about the lifestyle ----not knowing what they are seeing or reading is experienced people in the lifestyle ---and decide to try it, without the saftey net.

Let me tell you there have been more injuries ---and people completely turned off from the lifestyle --but doing this

A gag is an advanced feature in the lifestyle when coupled with pain inflection. Or being tied in a painful position. I advise newbies not to use a gag until they gain experience and maybe a safe sign----Still it is hard to use a safe sign if you are bound while being spanked or flogged ---or hung up bound and gagged

I tend to use a gag only in simulated Noncon sex---where the partner is completely aware of what is going on---and what is coming---maybe tied in a comfortable position and it is part of fantasy play ---not inflecting pain.

I have nerver and will never us a gag on a sub while spanking or caning them --beside their screams are part of the fantasy and knowing they do have a choice if I do get carried away in my part of the fantasy --is reassuring to me.

Thats my two cents worth

[Sir_G]

Wisdom comes with experience and Rabbit I love what you said above.

[Rabbit1]

Wisdom comes with experience and Rabbit I love what you said above.

that is true as long as the wisdom or the experience does not hurt anyone---the lifestyle can be great ---but enjoyment for both parties is a must---my advice is start slow ---get advice from experienced people ---and above all please use a safe word

[Tojo]

That too is an excellent point about gags- while we may want to experience it all on the first day, a gag is a very dangerous thing when starting out. Coupled with a collar which is a little tight, it could become more than uncomfortable.

Don't forget when you get hot & excited one's limbs & neck can swell, making ropes or restraints much tighter.

I always advise taking it one step at a time, the combination of things can increase the discomfort & panic level exponentially.

Further to my first post on safewords, I just think there's so much more to this than just saying 'oh the safe word is hippopotamaus' & going out the room for a coffee. Each situation is different.

Also I've never played to the extent some people do!
Slow & gentle wins the race for me.

Tojo

[cariad]

Well Tojo, I was trying to keep quiet - but you expect a girl to come out with 'hippopotamaus' as you push her too far??? Or perhaps you don't and this gentle exterior you project is just a front.

cariad

[Uncle_Ed]

*rubs eyes*

Tojo has pushed a hippopotamous too far into a girl? Geez...

[frankee]

lmao!

[Timberwolf]

It's totally possible to still have a safesign set up while using a gag, in certain setups.

As always communication with your partner beforehand is key.

[Rabbit1]

daggone Tojo I thought down under you blokes were into sheep and kangaroos not hippopotamaus---just goes to show how much I know ---lol

[Curious_1]

cari,

I sent you the log of that chat on safewords. I hope you read it again. Then you and I had a long talk about them in whisper.

I hope you say yes to being the leader of the discussion on them!! Name a time and date. But please make sure it is convenient to both sides of the ocean.

Curi

[cariad]

I am still thinking about it Curious. As you know I found my previous thoughts on the matter challenged by people whom I respect, and I am enjoying this thread. Now I know I do not need to have fixed views to lead such a discussion, and there is probably no absolute answer to the question, but would prefer to approach it with a little less confusion and indecisiveness in my head.

As promised I will get back to you on it.

cariad

[Curious_1]

Very well put delia!

Curi

[frankee]

Ok, my first post in the forums, so bear with me here...

I had a horrible experience with safewords in my first D/s relationship. I was taught that when used, it showed a failure on behalf of the submissive. It has taken my current Master over 8 months to un-train this from me and to teach me that in fact, safe words are the very safety (pardon the pun) net that keeps lifestyle SSC. My point here is that often submissives get the wrong impression on what a safe word is and therefore never use it when they should, and at the extreme end, don't use it when it is most needed. This can lead to permenant damage emotionally, mentally and physically for the sub.

The proper use of a safe word isn't meant to be used as a "cop out" during play but rather a gesture of communication from the sub to the Dom that the play has reached and surpassed a limit that the sub is comfortable with. A safe word isn't meant to prevent limits from being surpassed and for the sub to grow and learn from play, but it is meant to prevent the physical, mental and emotional harm.

As for "when" a safe word can work... My Master and I have not only a word but a gesture (using my fingers) for when I am unable to speak. I stress this because the gesture shouldn't be something the sub would otherwise make, nor should the word. However, the word should also not be so obscure and long (e.g. the previous described 'hippopotamus') that when deep in subspace the sub can't remember.

There is never a time, IMO, that a safe word isn't "necessary." It keeps a safety net both for the submissive AND for the Dom, no matter how long they have been together and how well they know eachother.

Ok, sorry for the long post. Just some thoughts...

delia,
i read your post twice. You gave me something to think about. i guess i'm one of those subs that think that using a safeword is a 'cop out' or a 'failure' in some way...
Thanks again for your post.

[Timberwolf]

delia,

Loved your post. I made a similar point in a thread about sadomasochism the other day. Someone saying they felt like a bit of a "whimp" for not enjoying hot wax play, and I retorted that this is "not the pain olympics". The goal of any form of BDSM is *not* push someone past their limits, or into any realm they don't want to go. It's find a balance that works for you, and that you enjoy. And within that balance that two people find, create a bond of intimacy.

If something goes to far in a person's mind, using a safeword is not failure. It can be a hard thing to wrap one's head around, but it is worth doing. I would never think of a sub using a safeword with me as "failure" myself... it's her I want, the intimate bond with her. The acts we do together are (relatively) irrelevant. We can always find something more to her liking.

[mina]

(omg I’m up during the day!)


Are they a good thing? Sure. I think it’s a good idea to have one (especially for new partners), and generally agree with what has been said so far, but...

Getting to this question,

do you consider they add or subtract from playtimes?

For me, it would limit my enjoyment of the "play". Knowing that I, the sub, had some kind of power to stop it if I wanted, that there was a "safety net"... really turns me off. There was some discussion of this in my intro as well, and there I said, "I want it to feel slightly dangerous, I want him to have total control like that." And I still agree with that.

But just because we don’t have a safeword doesn’t mean there aren’t discussions that take place before and after. Well, not always, but it really depends on what exactly the situation is. Not so much now, but of course when we first started doing stuff there were lengthy discussions about it. He pretty much knows what I can take.

Another thing I wanted to comment on, just to show a different point of view, was this:

For example, kindapping roleplays... a situation where no doesn't mean no if you're in character. I wouldn't ever enter one seriously without a safeword backup in place.

I don’t know about you all, but if we were going to do a kidnapping/rape thing... what would be the point of a safeword? In kidnapping/rape situations, there is no way out for the "victim". I guess it depends on how far you want to take it/how real you want it to be. Obviously if you know the other person it’s not going to seem real, but I don’t want to know what’s going to happen either. When we did something like that before, I didn’t know when it would happen or anything, and of course there was no "safe" word, and it was crazy (the good kind ) but oh so exciting.

Hmm... forgot what else I wanted to say. Will add more later if I think of it.

[_ID_]

I am still thinking about it Curious. As you know I found my previous thoughts on the matter challenged by people whom I respect, and I am enjoying this thread. Now I know I do not need to have fixed views to lead such a discussion, and there is probably no absolute answer to the question, but would prefer to approach it with a little less confusion and indecisiveness in my head.

As promised I will get back to you on it.

cariad

cariad, I reread your orignal post on this, and it made me wonder what your opinion was when you started the thread. I don't have the time to come into the chat room very often, so I would very much enjoy some tidbit insights on what spured you into starting the thread, and I would like to add I'm glad you started it.

From what I have been reading everyone seems to have a general consensus about their use, and why they are good.

I look forward to reading your views.

V/R
ID

[His Slut]

We settled on "diamonds." After all, they are a girl's best friend!!!!

[Timberwolf]

We settled on "diamonds." After all, they are a girl's best friend!!!!

Clever.