Does an interest in BDSM indicate a pattern of abuse in earlier life?

[Cleo671]

Taking part of the listed definition in here as ill-use..
we had an interesting case in the last week or so in Sydney, front page news etc.
This 27 yr old man had gone missing with this 12 year old girl.
It wasn't an abduction per se, but this was insinuated in all papers.
The question arose of why a 12 year old girl would leave the house the man shared with his de-facto/common law wife (9 months pregnant with two other children below the age of 3).

It then came about that she also shared this house at times, and was in the family's life as well.
Her parents were all over the news telling her to come home.
Her grandmother stated that this wasn't right.

Subsequently, more came out, this man's partner was 12 when he had met her. An obvious pattern.
It can be 'surmised' that once she became a 'mother', he lost interest and sought another girl, who knows.
This woman in the last two weeks gave birth to their third child, she is on the news stating that 'all children need their fathers' i.e. implying her partner (who at this time was in hiding with this girl).

In the last three days, they were spotted, a person recognising their faces telephoned the police, they were sharing a flat further out in the suburbs, after his arrest, the 12 year old girl prophessed her love, and that she wanted to still see him, although she agreed to the AVO which banned him from contacting her (he'll be sentenced anyway)..

BUT.. she wasn't maltreated by him, but it's 'ill use' in such a way that he somehow justified his actions to this girl, taking advantage in some way.

Now this girls first experience, with this man will surely influence her in some way in the future, and no one will know which direction it will go.
Is it possible that other events in her home life led her to seek some sort of comfort that a family unit such as that of this man and his partner offered?
Did she equate sex with affection and love?
What method did he use to gain trust in this 12 year old girl?
His partner, now 22, upon seeing all this, probably didn't know, perhaps this 12 year old girl acted as a babysitter as well..

but overrall....she might have consented to it as she was willingly with him missing for nearly two weeks, but that still doesn't mean that it isn't ill treatment.
Utilising a person's mind in this way is still abuse.
He is a predator nonetheless.

The women did not know any different, as they were (both) young girls at the time, and which 12 year old girl has the experience to differentiate, especially if her home life is dysfunctional?

[Finding_Fantasy]

I have not read the three pages of replies as my poor eyes are so tired, but I will reply to the origanal post.

I do not believe that someone who is involved in BDSM is a case of abuse...at least not in a great many. Yes, there are people who are submissive/masocists because that is all they know. It;s what they are used to, and even bad things are hard to stay away from. It;s like a man who has been in prison most of life. He may hate being in prison, loathe it, and dream of freedom in the outside world, but as soon as he is out on his own, he desperately wants to return because it is what he has been used to for a good portion of his life.

On the other hand, dominants that have been abused in the past may be dominant for the purpose of "revenge" To assure themselves that they are no longer the victims and can assert their power on someone else. (These people should be avoided at all cost in my opinion and these are the ones that give us a bad name)

That being said, I was not ever abused...at least not while I was a child. My paretns rarely laid a hand on me other than the odd spanking...though all my father had to do was give me "the look". I was in an abusive relationship when I was in my early 20's though but I had already been aware of my interest.

Did my interest draw me to this guy? No. He was very nice and very sweet until we moved into an apartment together and, having been on his own for the first time and having more money than he knew what to do with, he went nuts with drugs and drinking which drove him to do some of the many things he had done to me. I know it isn't an excuse, but those are the facts all the same.

I think that BDSM is more like a regular relationship in more ways that people realise. We just focus more on the abused in this lifestyle than in the others because of the type of activities. I don't know what the statistics/ratios are, but that is my opinion. Because we have whip each other, we wonder and over analyse it.

[Master_chris]

I became interested in the topic when I was a younger, and I did know what it was untill I discoved move about BDSM on the web at the age of 15 - 16 years old.

sinces then I have grow to love it, and I also look forward to exploring differance topics with in the BDSM world.

[bobanthony]

I was never abused as a child. I did have some minor interest in BDSM in my teens, but only became really involved in my 50's.

I my case, at least, abuse had absolutely nothing to do with it.

[pandemonium]

I've stayed away from this because, the supporting information is going to piss people off and I can't help that.

In order to get an honest answer, we have to rely on information that has been gathered about paraphiliacs.That means we have to look at the information on sex offenders or paraphiliacs with an impulse disorder. Like it or not. It doesn't matter how you feel about the category.
And for the life of me, I can't find anything that doesn't say its not a 50/50 thing. We know that 50% of parapheliacs have been abused. Its been said that an obsession began to occur approximately around 12 years old.

I'm not a shrink, I'm just going from what I read so, I'm not trying to come off like an expert here.

[pandemonium]

Causes of Paraphilia Unclear
It is unclear what causes a paraphilia to develop. Psychoanalysts theorize that an individual with a paraphilia is repeating or reverting to a sexual habit that arose early in life. Behaviorists suggest that paraphilias begin through a process of conditioning. Nonsexual objects can become sexually arousing if they are repeatedly associated with pleasurable sexual activity. Or, particular sexual acts (such as peeping, exhibiting, bestiality) that provide especially intense erotic pleasure can lead the person to prefer that behavior. Although the origins of most paraphilias are not understood, in some cases there seems to be a predisposing factor such as difficulty forming person-to-person relationships.

http://health.discovery.com/centers/...araphilia.html

Kind of interesting for a Q & A http://www.faculty.sfasu.edu/reastma...LDISORDERS.htm

I'm looking for this website and it was freakin' perfect but I can' find it right now.

[Spitman]

That's interesting about the data coming from studies of offenders, and the predisposing factors in paraphilia (abnormal sexual practices).

I think a lot of wrong conclusions have come out of studies that have focused only on offenders, because there is more incentive to study offenders, and they are more accessible.

Without studies also carried out in the general population, it is easy to draw false conclusions.

For instance, how can something be regarded as an abnormal sexual practice, if we don't know how prevalent this practice is in the general population?

With today's freedom of access to discussions like this, maybe we can begin to understand the wider picture.

That aside, I would be far happier to agree that an interest in bdsm relates to the ability to form relationships, than to a history of abuse.

Whether bdsm is an example of paraphilia is another very good question! I believe fantasies involving some element that we include in the scope of bdsm are extremely common in the general population.

[pandemonium]

I think a lot of wrong conclusions have come out of studies that have focused only on offenders, because there is more incentive to study offenders, and they are more accessible.

I disagree. I do not disagree that there is more incentive, we as a society need to understand in order to recognize and to prevent/protect. Therefore, I strongly believe that the conclusions that are drawn are not in any way wrong. I also do not disagree that they are more accessable.
I'm trying to do this from memory, I believe that for anything to become abnormal is a continued obsession that lasts longer than 6 months and is the only way that one can find sexual release. And obviously it is anything that is beyond a vanilla heterosexual relationship. For a long time homosexual relationships were considered abnormal. And that changed. The problems begin when these "obsessions" are acted on. There's the line. This is inherently important because when looking at a pedaphile....they can't be treated. The only thing that is going to happen is that its going to escalate. (sp?)And that goes for any of your sexual predators. Thats good to know.
It is recognized that these relationships (BDSM) are not harmful providing they are consensual. That is recognized. Its still a paraphiliac.
And as a side note that is completely not related: there is a huge fear that if we as a society say that homosexuality is ok, whats to stop us from saying pedophiles are ok.......they are on the same list. See?
I don't think its a question of it being common, because whether we say its common in the general public doesn't make a difference. I mean, its 2004, I would be hard pressed to find a large population of people that didn't come from a dysfunctional abusive back ground.

[leo9]

Like a lot of contributors to this thread, my first answer to the question is "not with me". My childhood was loving and supportive. My mother spanked me exactly once - very clumsily and ineffectively, in blind anger - and it was her anger that hurt me then.

My difficulty in puberty was finding myself turned on by ideas of torture and slavery when I had been raised to believe that violence and oppression were the greatest evils.

I don't believe that there is a higher incidence of abusive childhoods among us, but I do suspect that because what we do has such power to release and relieve old hurts, BDSM people are more likely to have come to terms with past abuse and to be able to talk about it. So this may create a false impression that there are more abuse survivors here than in the vanilla world.

It's that well known effect where improved reporting creates the appearance of a greater problem.

[His_sweet_song]

to start with i should perhaps say that yes i was abused as a child....from the age of 11 to roughly just after i was 16 my stepfather felt he could use me sexually while my mother was out of the house.....and yes i have an interest in BDSM....but even i am still not sure if they are linked...for the interest and realisation didnt occur till after i had been married to my soon to be ex for over 7 yrs...after reading a book of all things and realising that the thought of being bound and spanked really turned me on...i slowly began to realise i in some way needed the pain to arrouse me.....although what occured with my stepfather contained no elements of bondage or pain whatsoever....in some ways was glad that he tended to not use the fishing rod on me the way he used it on my siblings as punishement...i have never gone through any self destructive behavior....to the point if i had ever thought of ending things i always thought that it would hurt others more than it would hurt me...for after all i would have been dead and everyone else would have been left grieving.

the arrousal/pain element is a very real physical reaction with me....elements of pain lead to a feeling of release...but i soon let my Sir know if the pain ever becomes too much.....

i am not really sure if my past lead to my present....but i am a stronger person for it even if that is a loving submissive person ......

[sinsinderella]

My need for the lifestyle is the result of real life experiences prior to the age of 18. I would like to share what happened to me, and my current understanding of myself in order to gain more healing, but I am too new here to expose myself this soon.

My story is long and involved. Could someone point me to where in the BDSM Library, it would be the best place to tell my story, in bits and pieces, as I gain the courage?

~~sinsinderella

[Mobius]

Right here in BDSM life would be the place.
I would suggest making a thread of your own, so we can find it quickly. If the moderators want it in a different locasion they will intervine.

I look forward to reading your tale with great anticipation.

[slavelucy]

Originally posted by His_sweet_song
i am not really sure if my past lead to my present....but i am a stronger person for it even if that is a loving submissive person ......

i was just re-reading through this thread and noticed this line - His_sweet_song, this is absolutely beautifully put and was what i was trying to say, just put MUCH better.

Even if there is a possibility that abuse can lead to an interest in BDSM, i think it would be wrong to assume that this is necessarily a negative thing, in fact, to have become a 'stronger, loving, submissive person' suggests that a person has let go of it and come out the other side.

sl

[AndrewBlack]

I totally agree with you both, it's how you have learned from previous experience, positive or negative that makes you who you are. I believe as long as you can move on, even negative experiences can make you smarter and stronger.

[lola]

I have never been abused. Not as an adult and not as a child either.

My daughter is 6, she has never been abused, not physically or verbally. I am convinced that one day, she will be a sub or a domme or maybe both. She ties stuff up all the time, tells me to choke her because it feels good and that she likes to cry.

I think that for the most part, you are what you are. I also think that if you are a submissive, and you live with or, in close proximity to, an abusive person that, they will likely be able to smell you out and take advantage of you. It doesn't mean that you are a sub because you were abused.

[allalone46]

I'm like Finding Fantisy. I was never abused, and my father only spanked me once in his life, and my mother never did, and I do know the look that he says thay both had theres, and that was all it took.

[leo9]

I also think that if you are a submissive, and you live with or, in close proximity to, an abusive person that, they will likely be able to smell you out and take advantage of you. It doesn't mean that you are a sub because you were abused.

Let us not blur the difference between Dominants and abusers, likewise between submissives and victim types.

I certainly agree that a Dom can usually sense when someone is sub even if sie is not flagging in any obvious way. (I know I can, I've sometimes surprised myself with the people for whom my detector has buzzed, and later found I was right.) And it does appear that abusive characters have an instinct for potential victims.

But most of the submissives I have known have not been victim types, on the contrary: outside the D/s relationship they are usually strong minded, even aggressive people whom any would-be abuser would walk wide around. And speaking just for myself, I am equally quick to avoid victim types.

[rob.wilson]

I have never been abused and I don't remember my mother or father ever raising their hand in anger either towards my brother or myself. My mother wore the pants in the family, and my father tended to be submissive to her. They been happily (yes happily) married for nearly 40 years.

So it's interesting to me that my brother has abused his ex-wife (she dumped is sorry butt after he broke her nose). He's calmed down a bit since then and the current relationship he's in seems better and calmer, although my brother seems to have a pool of anger in him.

I on the other hand am very much the pacifist and have often questioned why I enjoy BDSM because of my beliefs. In fact, sometimes I think I was to concerned about my ex-partners safety and was not "as abusive" as she would like me to be.

It's interesting how are lives are influenced by things.

[lola]

Let us not blur the difference between Dominants and abusers, likewise between submissives and victim types.

I certainly agree that a Dom can usually sense when someone is sub even if sie is not flagging in any obvious way. (I know I can, I've sometimes surprised myself with the people for whom my detector has buzzed, and later found I was right.) And it does appear that abusive characters have an instinct for potential victims.

But most of the submissives I have known have not been victim types, on the contrary: outside the D/s relationship they are usually strong minded, even aggressive people whom any would-be abuser would walk wide around. And speaking just for myself, I am equally quick to avoid victim types.

I did not mean to suggest that dominants are by nature abusers and, I certainly did not mean to suggest that all submissive persons are victims. That being said, if you are a sub and you were abused, which is kind of what the original question is about, the abuse probably did not cause the submissiveness. I have nothing but ancedotal evidence to support this theory of course but, it has proven itself to be true in spades, at least in my experience.

Were these strong minded submissives that you know abused early on?

[MrJerseyGuy]

I know this thread has been around for some time...but I just got around to reading it. No abuse in my case, either as a victim or as an abuser. I actually had a sickeningly normal upbringing. Likewise, my sub did as well.

I think it's hard to make a correlation because a lot of people suffered abuse as children. You can't really point to the small percentage who wind up with an interest in bdsm and say "AH HA! That's what caused it!" I'll bet if there were ever a study done on it, the percentage of abuse victims who wind up in the "lifestyle" is smaller than the percentage within the vanilla community.

It would be an interesting study.

[MasterRJ]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I think I can put my 2 cents in here in response to the first question. Now as a child, I was beaten by my martial arts sensei over the course of a six month period. Then I found out that a girl I had been dating was in fact mollested by her by a man that I very deeply respected. This hurt me in ways I can't describe. But then for some reason I started having dirty thoughts about girls in my high school. And not just any thoughts, thoughts about raping them (bum bum bum!) I tried to repress this. I figured it was probably just another pubecant assault on my psychie. But I couldn't get it out of my head. But then I looked into a lifestyle as a dominator, and I tried a few sessions in a chat room enviroment, and from then on the rest is ancient history. I personally beleive, however, that if my friend was not mollested I don't beleive I would be dominant. Although I must admit I don't think my lickings from my sensei had anything at all to do with it.

[leo9]

I think it's hard to make a correlation because a lot of people suffered abuse as children. You can't really point to the small percentage who wind up with an interest in bdsm and say "AH HA! That's what caused it!" I'll bet if there were ever a study done on it, the percentage of abuse victims who wind up in the "lifestyle" is smaller than the percentage within the vanilla community.

It's my belief that because BDSM scenes sometimes expose repressed memories, and because BDSM people are less likely to feel ashamed to admit to having been abused, we probably have a higher percentage of people who openly identify as abuse survivors than in the general population. And this may create a false impression that the actual incidence of abused people is higher.

That is, in statistical terms, it's an artifact of reporting.

[GaryWilcox]

You know, I consider myself to be a part of a pattern of abuse. I was never molested or raped, but I was bullied. And I was involved with two women who tried to involve me in their rape fantasies. One who had been raped... the other who, I think, probably ached for the experience.

While these things were a part of my sexual awakening, no one told me that my bearded, black Voice Command G. I. Joe doll should strip my Mego Batgirl doll and force her to kiss him.

There was definitely something in the way I was nurtured... but then my nature is not so innocent, either.

[Barton]

Nope, no abuse here. Corporal punishment for major transgressions (I was a horrible child), but that was okay, I asked for it. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is quite true I believe. However, as this is a lifestyle that I discovered late in life I don't think that had anything to do with it And although I cannot speak for my slave, I am not aware of any abuse in her life.
Barton.

[Pandora's Box]

Is an interest in BDSM a result of abuse in early life, or is abuse just a factor that many in BDSM lifestyles seem to share?

I have noticed that many people, both dominant and submissive, have had occurences of abuse earlier in their lives. Is a person's interest in BDSM the result of the abuse or is the person simply abused and then becomes interested in BDSM regardless of it?

Well I can't say I was abused physically. I do have some abandonment type issues regarding my father. Granted he never left, but he did desert us emotionally. I think that may be something that makes me like the close interpersonal levels of connection in a D/s relationship.

I do wonder if my desire to please was influenced by that. I think it was more of an issue when I was younger. I did some really stupid things for men. (Although I think that is a general truism for people.) As I've gotten older though, I've learned to set some boundaries in what I will and will not do and for what and whom. Oddly enough, in many ways D/s has actually helped me to define those boundaries better and feel a bit more in control of things.

I can't speak about physical abuse. Granted I don't like pain, but then the things I do like I tend to call "extreme sensation". It just doesn't cross the bridge over into real pain.


Interesting question, but I can't help but wonder instead of who involved in bdsm was abused, how many people who were abused got into bdsm? And does their particular brand of abuse correlate at all to their particular inclinations?

[chameleon]

Interesting question, but I can't help but wonder instead of who involved in bdsm was abused, how many people who were abused got into bdsm? And does their particular brand of abuse correlate at all to their particular inclinations?

That's the question that's been in my mind since the first post. Very much like the studies that falsely put an entire generation of childhood abuse survivors under suspicion as potential abusers, the methodology and conclusion are faulty. It makes as much sense to say, for instance, that since a large percentage of submissives had blonde female teachers in fifth grade, having a blonde female teacher in the fifth grade is a possible precipitating event in causing a person to become a submissive. As was pointed out, it makes more sense to take a group of children who were abused and follow them to see what percentage of them move into a BDSM lifestyle.

[sweetmissy]

Interesting discussion. I would have to agree on this. My mother was physically abusive somewhat but more than anything mentally abusive. My father was not- When I say abusive, I mean that she would erupt into bursts of anger over small infractions and then work herself into a froth before lashing out on us with a belt, plate--whatever was handy. She called it "discipline" but I call it abuse- (welts, etc...). BUT I don't associate it with my desired to be spanked NOW. I just like VERY aggressive MEN who totally take control and "force" :[ play with me- I'm sure some "shrink" would claim their's some Freudian subconscious connection- but I'd say no-

[erisv]

like most of the replies i've read i am going to straddle the fence on this one. i think that certainly for some there is a connection between their paticular BDSM proclivities and past abuse in child or early adulthood and that as slavelucy said this is not necessarily a bad thing and i am sure more then one has worked out their past in the safety of a BDSM relationship.

for me though the really interesting question is what draws so called "normal" people to. those that didn't have an abusive childhood and yet seek out what most would consider an extreme relationship. it's a question i am constantly asking myself and have honestly not come up with an answer for yet.

[sweetie00]

No. I was never abused ( in any of the possible ways) when I was younger.

Just have deep intense cravings for extremes of sensations, and whilst not a painslut, I'm masochistic and do have high pain threshold (or so I've been told )

I think for me this in direct relation to my getting depression where you don't feel much at all, so I try to make up for it with physical pain, immobilisation with extreme restraint and different sensation play.

I think the intesity of feelings is the pull for me. My Owner/bf and I were talking about a friend of mine that is very dramatic. She is almost constantly "fighting" with her boyfriend - very often over silly small things - and I think it is because she craves drama. We laughed at ourselves b/c we crave drama as well, we just get it in other ways.

And I feel the exact same way about getting depressed when there isn't much feeling going around or I'm bored. I'm still learning a great deal about BDSM but NONE of it has been boring yet!

[tehya]

Hmmmmm a very touchy subject for me... since every male figure in my childhood abused me. However, I'd like us to look at this from a different angle.

I'm not saying I was abused because I am submissive, because I didn't even know there was a name for what I am until 9 months ago. But I think my abusers picked up on submissive traits (pleasing others, the need to serve, my willingness to see others happy, even at my own expense), and instead of nurturing these things, the abusers were able to twist them to their advantage. They wanted that power over me, and they took it.

Neither do I believe I am submissive because of the abuse. I'm definitely not looking for the abuse to continue. It was degrading, humiliating, and made me feel like I was a very bad girl.

I think what BDSM has done for me, is teach me that my submissive self is beautiful. That I can be myself, give all of myself over to my Master, and I can trust that he will care for me and see that NO harm comes to me. In effect, it has helped reverse the abuse and freed me from the past. Now I give the power over, not have it snatched away from me. Therein lies the freedom I have never had before in my life.

Master's tehya