Less of a submissive?

[Talia]

Dear Members,

I have a question for all. I debated on just asking the Dom/mes or even just the slave/submissives, but after further reflection of the topic I am going to propose, I decided upon asking everyone........

Real Life submission vs. Online Submission

Now, I have heard there are some out there that feel that a submissive that has only had online experience as a submissive makes them less of a submissive because they haven't had real life. In fact, some real life submissives tend to look down upon online submissives, even demean them.

When I first started out as a submissive it was strictly as an online submissive. Although I have Master now, our relationship is new, only 6 months now. But because most of my experience is online does that make me less of a submissive just because I am an online submissive.

I have spoken of my Sir upon a number of occasions, our relationship started out as online then moved to phone conversations. I have known Sir now for over a year and a half. I have met Sir three times but only once as his submissive in person.

Most of you know Aesop is my Daddy. STRICTLY online submission. For the past 8 months he has been my online dominant. NO chance of meeting him. No phone calls.

Now? Do you think I am less of a submissive because I am an online submissive?

[Timberwolf]

I know my bluntnes rubs some the wrong way but here goes:

Anyone who thinks "less" of me for pursuing the Lifestyle online needs a very serious wake up call. Period.

Is it as fulfilling as real time? I doubt it. It doesn't mean it isn't very important. It doesn't mean that feelings can't soar, or get hurt. And it certianly doesn't mean it's not real.

This is not a lifestyle-exclusive issue of course. Ask the pre-internet generations what they think of online dating in general and you'll find tons of people making faces about it with many foolish misconceptions, or portraying only the negative end of things. Doesn't make them right, either.

[Mack_Bolan{lily}]

Personally I think if you are genuinely submitting online - whats the difference?

I think there are people in the online world who sit at there computers and pay lip service to their submission, assuring their Doms?Dommes that they are carrying out their tasks, doing what they are told and so on.

I think this is why so many people Doms/Dommes in particular like their subs to have a webcam and a mic or a cam or a mic. Not that it is impossible to fake cumming on a mic or a cam.

I suspect it is the fakes that give the online issue its bad name. Why people would enter an online relationship when they have no intention of doing as they are directed by their Sir/Maam is beyond me anyway. Although I'm sure the psychologists out there could tell us.

The short answer to your question Talia is no not at all. Your submission online is just as valid as real life.

[Timberwolf]

I would certainly agree that for those who want to fake their way through something, obviously online makes it easier for them. There are risks that come with this choice. But that shouldn't paint the ones that choose to be serious with the same brush.

"Personally I think if you are genuinely submitting online - whats the difference?"

To me this is what it really comes down to. Any submission, whether online or in real time, is a mental decision, that produces a series of sensations/results. And if you make this decision here, or in your home with a partner, or in some "club"... if it produces the same results, does it really matter which road you took?

[learningtopleez]

I know of many Doms and submissives that have started their relationships online. Some of them continue it online, and I certainly don't think it makes any of them, or you Talia, less of a submissive.

All of my D/s relationships have started online too, and three of them I was able to meet in r/l. The one online that I tried to continue as an online relationship, turned out to be not what he said he was...or more like not who he said he was. It took me quite some time before I was able to trust online again.

I have found for myself though, that if I get heavily involved with someone online, then I am going to want to meet them in r/l. But thats just me, and right now I am trying an online relationship with someone who is taking it nice and slow, and making sure we both have our eyes open. This I respect. And if things continue to go as well as they have, then we will meet in r/l.

But again, I surely don't think anyone that is invloved in an online D/s relationship is less of anything!

My 2 cents!

[SheepishJaina]

I dont think that being an online sub or dom makes anyone any less of who they are. Our real life situations may not allow for it to move forward into that real world. However, that doesn't mean that it is any less real, nor that there are any less feelings behind it.

My path as a submissive started online. Were it not for online, I wouldn't have found out as much as i have. More people are willing to open up online than they would in rl. I've found online to be a great building block for friendships and relationships. You get to know a person, because unless they are the worlds greatest liar, they are going to mix up their story at some point along the way. After even a few days you can usually get a general feel for the "type of person".

As a submissive online, I go through the same emotions and frustrations as a RL sub. There are differences between the two, big differences, like being able to touch your partner, or look in their eyes. In the OL world, our Dom/me/ sub can go missing for days or weeks on end, and its normal.

In the end, being a Dom/me or sub boils down to our own hearts and how we feel about our own selves.

[Aussiegirl1]

Now, I have only so far experienced on-line submission and am still fairly new to all that could entail. However, I have to say that to me it is real, if not different to real life submission. I have never thought to fake any reaction or to keep any feelings to myself. I figure that if I did that, I am only cheating myself. As TW said, it is a mental decision, and it shouldn't matter where you are or in what situation you are in, for the submission to be real.

Now I have plans to meet Tojo in real life, and though I know this will produce different feelings and situations, our online time will have allowed us to build a solid base for our time together.

I know before this last year, I could not have comprehended how amazing online relationships can be. If both parties are honest and genuine, it can be a truly wonderful experience.

Talia, I certainly do not think you are less of a submissive due to your online relationships. I am sure, like me, you have been honest in these relationships and have grown as a person because of them. It is just a different experience, that in no way make the submissive any less than a real life sub.

Sheepish, I also agree that we go through the same emotions and frustrations as in a real life relationship. I have experienced highs and some lows, that were very real! I also echo your point on being able to be more open online, I know that is very true for me. I have never, ever been so open and honest in my life! It is wonderful.

[Sir_G]

Talia I suspect what you heard about R/L submissives berating the online experience was snobbery at its worst. I have had both R/L and online experience although my real life experience has been limited. The people I have met here online are far more knowlegeable and free with that knowledge than anyone I have ever met in real life.

I have also made many good friends that I would like to think that if we ever had the opportunity to meet in real life would be just as they are here.

I fully echo what has been said by aussiegirl and those above her. Online rocks.

[annie]

I would agree with everything above...Mack and sheepish especially.

my experience started out on line and then moved to r/l. But... r/l was only a couple of times a year (at most). Was i only His submissive those few times a year? NO... i followed orders daily that were in my best interest. From scheduling to weight loss to Him helping me mentally through the birth of my third child (had trauma from the twins that haunted me.) Had it not been for Him i would have been loonier then i am normally... lol.

So... since O/our main form of communication was o/l did that make the relationship any less real? Not for me. It required a different set of arrangements and its own' special challenges but it affected r/l... which to me make it r/l, period.

If you are truly submitting on line it will fall over into YOUR r/l in most instances (at least from my experience) so who's right is it to claim that just because you use email to get your orders instead of having your Dom standing right there that you are any less of anything? Just because someone may think that o/l is less who is to say that their "r/l" submission is true submission? i have a feeling some o/l subs are more respectful and obedient then some r/l subs are anyhow... lol.

Anyhow... just my two cents as well!

[Uncle_Ed]

Hello Talia,

I have recently seen this snobbery at work-and those to whom I'm refering will know who they are. I believe that it is arrogance at it's worst to dismiss the opinion of those who's life experiences "Don't measure up"

I have grappled for a long time over on-line relationships and can honestly say that I have only recently reached a point where I feel I can start to imagine the depths to which some of you can experience the D/s scene here. I am not well-equipped to to reach these depths and I admire-and envy-those of you who can do so.

Talia-for what it is worth, I sincerely believe that there is no difference between on-line submission and r/l. During both it is necessary for you do adopt a particular mind-set. And that is what counts. Apart from this-do you personally get something out of your submission? And does He? If the answer to both is "yes" then sod the rest!

So-a final word to our resident "experts" in BDSM-the ones who look down upon on-liners.



Ed.

[Rabbit1]

While I have mixed feeling on this ----I have started many R/L relationships online----but I must say that the O/L relationships always ended in real life relationships or they ended ----why ??? because the online relationship always made me want more that it could supply me ----O/L is a great way I feel to get to know someone ----to tell if you are compatible before starting a R/L relationship

I am not saying it can not happen ---but I do not see how a O/L relationship can keep going and still be fulfilling after awhile ---but that is just my opinion and how it works for me

and I appreciate opposing opinions ---

[karin]

*reads..pondering* ID & i met online at a personal site for people seeking bdsm partners. we chatted on yahoo for a while..progressed to phone calls...and since both of us were unattached at the time, we were able to connect in person. and at that time, we decided to remain together. i, personally, started out with my bdsm journey online, although i wasn't an online collared submissive..simply because i wanted..needed more. i did, however, learn a lot, which i feel prepared me for my real life relationship. online vs. real time? whatever floats anyone's boat. i think none of us should judge..either way. what works for some..doesn't for others. and vice versa. i think a submissive heart is just that. online or rt. the nuances are different, most assuredly...real life offers its own situations and problems that differ from the online issues and dilemmas. not that one is better or worse than the other....different never meant wrong.

having said that..i'd like to say this...do what you are gonna do. if anyone thinks your online submission is bullshit...why...do you care? your private life has no bearing on anyone elses life. the opinions of others can be heeded or tossed away depending on the validity of them TO YOU. i think..."think i said"..that a lot of us come to these boards seeking information, ideas, support, guidance, a connection to others with similar interests, problem shooting etc. for friendship..real or online only. i have, however, seen a lot of judging going on. judging is fine....we all have to judge what is valid for ourselves...but *pardon me here* for a bunch of alternative lifestylers to judge each others kinks, preferences, likes and dislikes is just wrong. on ten different levels..its wrong. 'live and let live' *shrugs* if someone asks for help, advice or guidance, as the topic of this thread has...the person making the request certainly has the prerogative of discarding any advice that does not suit their needs.

opinions are like assholes. we all got 'em. and for the record..they all stink LOL

so to sum up my ramblings...Talia...online submissives vs real life submissives...same game..different venue.

[~hellish one~]

i wanted to offer my two cents as well, here. i've had experience with both r/l and o/l. my journey into BDSM began online about 7 years ago or so. since then, i've had both o/l D/s relationships and r/l D/s relationships. of course as a submissive, i crave a real life relationship with my Dom. what sub in her right mind wouldn't? with r/l you do gain a lot more...having the person physically there with you is a HUGE bonus and can make feelings/emotions/responses...much more intense than they would be online. there is definitely something you can get from a r/l relationship that you can't get from just online alone.

now, that being said, i'm not trying to say that online submissives are fakes...or any less submissive than r/l ones. heck, i'm an online sub! the emotions are still there. and like Mack and Tw said...if you are genuinely submitting yourself to another person, be it online or in real life...it is still submission....no matter how you look at it. i submit my mind and body...physically and emotionally, i am involved in the online relationship. i take my tasks seriously and strive to perform each and every one of them to perfection. i want to please him...i NEED to please him. just because it's online doesn't mean my tears aren't real when i know i've disappointed him...nor does it mean that his words are any less sincere or heartfelt when he is comforting me. i proudly bear marks for him, as he wills it...and just because he didn't physically give me the marks, doesn't mean i don't look at them every chance i get and think fondly of him. to me, they ARE marks he has given me...even though i was the one wielding the slapper.

i hope all this rambling makes sense. what it boils down to is whether you are truly submitting online. if you are truly submitting yourself to another person, then you are just as much a submissive as 3 real life subs combined, in my opinion. we will all crave to have a real life D/s relationship, but for those of us that can't obtain that goal...online is definitely the next best thing.

[_ID_]

I have given lots of thought on this subject since I first read it. Because I prefer not to be judged how I do what I do, I decided to post some points of view from other sources that advocate each separate from the other.

Online Submission:
The following article was written at a ezine that I read called "The Dominants View". I gives what I feel is a very well written explanation of online D/s.

The article I quote this from is here.
http://www.thedomsview.com/Vol6/I5/mdb.htm

Online Submission: Is it Real?
This month's topic has been hotly debated ever since the early days of BDSM on the IRC, the very place where I first learned of the lifestyle Can you truly dominate a submissive online? If so, why is there such a huge amount of distrust of the online arena in the lifestyle? There isn't an easy answer to this question, and everyone, it seems, has their own opinion.

Part of the problem, I think, stems from where you sit at the BDSM table. Arguably, if you're into S&M, it would be far harder to experience a Dom/sub relationship online. It is one thing to whip yourself on command and another to be whipped. It is one thing to say you're being spanked and another to be spanked. Almost any physical action will be easier online, even the act of kneeling. It is far easier for a sub to type that she kneels, than it is for her to get down on her knees. It should go without saying that kneeling in one place for four hours, effortless online, becomes very difficult in real life. A virtual S&M relationship would, in my opinion, be very difficult to have—yet it is possible still.

If a person has experienced S&M in real life, even if they don't actually feel the spanking, they very much know what a spanking is. And so, one of my real life BDSM friends, who has been a real life submissive, now has an online Dom. She feels she is submissive to him and that they have a real connection. Is she wrong? Is anyone egotistical enough to say they know more about her relationship than she does?

Let's move onto B&D. If you're into bondage and discipline, you run into many of the same snags you do with S&M. For one thing, it is tremendously hard to type while your hands are bound behind your back. Again, saying you're bound is not the same thing as being bound. And again, if you've experienced it before, and know the sensations involved, you might have better luck pulling it off.

But my primary interest in BDSM is D/s or Dominance and submission, including a fair whack of role-playing I've found personally that this area of BDSM is far easier to bring to the online arena, and I have had some success in that area. A lot of people think I must be a rank amateur for defending online domination, and frankly, I don't care. If it doesn't work for you, don't do it. But don't tell me that it hasn't worked for me, for I have evidence to the contrary.

My last three real life BDSM relationships were with women I'd met and dominated online first. That is, they belonged to me before we ever met in real life. Once we met in real life, in all three cases, our relationships were not substantially different than they had been online. How is this possible?

The area of BDSM that interests me most is psychological. While all BDSM relationships have a psychological component, most people balance that out with the physical. I do that as well in real life at times, but it certainly isn't part of my game. I enjoy humiliation, for example, and find that humiliating a girl online and in real life is very similar. Subs can become so entrenched in an online chat room, by humiliating them in front of their "friends" there, they react much the same as when it happens in real life. I've trained at least four subs to cum on command online, and carried that over to real life in three of those cases (The fourth girl I never visited in real life, but I believe the same situation would have existed, should we have met).

Now that I've defended the online arena, let me tear it to shreds.

It is easy to create a character in an online world and put the word Dom in your profile. VERY easy. There are a whole lot of players and even sociopaths calling themselves Doms or even subs. They are everywhere you go online. Sometimes I think they are the rule rather than the exception.

One of the big issues for me online is pacing. The speed at which online relationships proceed, is staggering. I've seen Doms collar subs online an hour after they've first met. What is that about? BDSM, if you're going to take it seriously, should be handled the same online as it is in real life. Admittedly, I learned BDSM online and in real life at the same time, and that's not the case for everyone. Still, many of the subs I've collared online over the years had never been subs before. Yet when we met, they responded as submissives, they were mine, well and truly before we ever met in real life. Which is one good argument for taking your time before forming an online relationship.

I didn't collar dana until I'd known her online for six months. We'd played and talked extensively during that time, so that when the collar was offered, there wasn't much surprise. Even then, I offered her only a training collar for a month, before I offered her a real collar, again online. That's right, I collared dana in a chatroom Then, more than two and a half years ago, I moved to Tasmania to live with her. Our relationship is the same as it always had been. We didn't miss a beat in the transition. If you don't want to believe an online relationship is for you, that's perfectly acceptable, but you'll never convince me it's impossible, since I've done it. At best you can call me misled—at worst, a liar. Or you can admit that it's not for you, but might be possible for others.

Online Domination isn't necessarily for everyone, but there are plenty of people who live in remote areas, or have real life situations that stand in the way of real life participation. Should these people not be part of the online BDSM community? Should they not try to find themselves? I call your attention to a submissive I know who was handicapped to the point where she was homebound. She couldn’t go out, she was in a marriage that was more than marginally abusive, but divorce wasn't an option for her. She found release online, and who can blame her? Was she real life? No, she wasn't. Does that mean she couldn't have been? Who can say?

I draw your attention to a young mother of two children in the middle of rural Dakota, with a truck driver husband who's almost never around. This isn't as uncommon as you might think. Where is she going to experience her real life BDSM? Should she put her growth in the lifestyle completely on hold while she waits for the kids to grow up?

You may think these people the exception to the rule, but the online arena is so huge, there are thousands, if not tens of thousands (or even more) of people like this, both Doms and subs, who aren't at liberty to participate real life.

As time goes on, more and more people are going to enter BDSM from the online arena. Some may start online and never go further and some, like me, will make the jump to real life fairly quickly. Some will be very active in the scene, and some will be more occasional participants. But everyone is who they are. It is my understanding that a Dom is a Dom even before he knows what BDSM is. I feel that I was. I first heard the term BDSM when I was 29, but I had always been dominant. Had always had power exchange fantasies. Had always loved to listen to women beg.

So now I ask you, if you can be a Dom (or submissive for that matter) without ever having heard of the lifestyle, how can anyone say you can't be an online Dom or submissive, if you don't practice it in real life?

When you can answer that question, then we can argue about whether online dominance exists, or whether it's a figment of my deranged imagination.

From that point of view to the other.



Real Life Submission:
Many submissives both online and real life seek a Dominant, even a Master. Hoping to get the collar of their Dom (Dom or Domme, for the purpose of this post I will be using Dom however the application can be applied equally in either direction). Thus becoming his slave.

That said, here is a little prayer that could be used in training a slave.

I want to be taken.

I want to be enslaved.

I want to be broken.

I want to be made.

Take my body, my mind and my soul.

Take from me all of my control.

I am a toy, a tool, an obedient servant.

My need to be owned is most deep and fervent.

I am not a pet, not a lover, not even a whore.

I am only a slave and I am nothing more.

Taking some information from another site, I would use their defintion of slavery.

Slaves don't get a vacation, 'personal' days or 'time off' for being sick. Well, they could if they were granted such by their Owner, but they have no entitlement to such things. As a real slave you will be expected to (and here's the shocking part) actually be a slave. A real slave will be expected to be a slave 24/7/365.

Of course we all know that most of our lives don't allow for such ideals to be put into practice 24/7/365. So with that understanding we would take more of a submission mindset rather than total slavery.

If you are going to be 'owned' and 'collared' by someone. You would be devoting yourself to them, your servitude coming before anything else. At least as much as could be done practically speaking.

How could someone totally submit to another, if it is restricted by the wires and boxes that make up the online experience?


So all that said, my views on the subject. I prefer to have the real life experience over the online. I feel that even though the submission of online can and does evoke real feelings of submission. It is limited in its realm, and reality in that if the submissive becomes mouthy, a Dom can't grab her by the hair, give a good yank, reminding her of her place. In the online realm, if the submissive became mouthy, and the Dom attempted to correct that with a verbal correction. Should the submissive decide she didn't want to listen, the Dominant would have no choice if the submissive just closed the chat, and turned off the computer.

Talia - To your question, does being an online submissive make you less of a submissive. I feel that question is one only you can answer. For me to pass judgment on your submission, would be an invitation for you to pass judgment on my Domination. Since I don't want the latter, I would never do the former.

V/R
ID

[Rabbit1]

Well said ID ---as we can only really speak from our own prespective --and our own experiences ---it is hard to say what someone else get out of the same experience ---as my first response I spoke only of how the O/L experience effects me ----it is a great tool for seeking knowledge and practice ----and I am not a judge of anyone but me----

[Ruby]

What ID, Timberwolf, Karin and others have said.

We all have things we want to do and experieince, thank heavens for having "freedom of choice".

How you choose to submit is up to you (and your dom).

Ruby

[TomOfSweden]

Now? Do you think I am less of a submissive because I am an online submissive?

What I'd like to know is; why would you give a rats ass what anybody else thinks of your relationship? What ever makes you happy is good.

[Sir_G]

ID a very thought provoking post and as usual a most excellent one. Kudos to you Sir, kudos.

[Talia]

Yes ID, Thank you very much for the informative article.

Thank you everyone....all of you are wonderful.

So many thoughts go through my mind as I read all of these. I doubt I will get them all written in one sitting but here we go.......

Hellish one made a very important point in her reply.

When I was with Sir, he had given me marks that I wore with pride. Marks, that were deep and very soar. I loved them. Not just because I'm a maschosist, but because they were the marks from my dom.

On the flip side, I have given myself marks from commands that Daddy has given me. These marks meant as much to me as the ones my Sir had given me. I wore them with pride. Yes, it was like Daddy had been there and given me the marks.

I possed this question to Daddy the other night. His response: submission is in the mind, not the body.

I asked Master his thoughts: He thinks it's ludacris that I would think, just because most of my experience is online, that my submission is less than what it is.

Many times during interactions with Daddy I have cried because of the intense feelings I experience during our sessions. I've cried from happiness and saddness. With Master I have done the same. Two important relationships to me. One is online the other is real life.

DO I feel my submission, just because it's online, makes me less of a submissive? NO, I don't. I'm confident in my submission. In fact, it's because of my submission, I have gained confidence.

[~hellish one~]

ID...

told ya so...~smiles~ didn't i?

Talia ~hugs~ it is good to be confident in knowing who you are isn't it? ~smiles~

[Talia]

ID...

told ya so...~smiles~ didn't i?

Talia ~hugs~ it is good to be confident in knowing who you are isn't it? ~smiles~

*big smiles* yes, it is.

[Timberwolf]

"What I'd like to know is; why would you give a rats ass what anybody else thinks of your relationship?"

Call me crazy, but I find people questioning something that for now is a core part of my way of life something worth getting riled up over.

I don't go looking for a fight on this issue, but if I met some non-internet lifestyler with a chip on their shoulder (and thankfully I haven't had that experience yet) they'd better be prepared for an earful all the same.

[mina]

I don't like the idea of there being levels of submission. I mean sure there's beginner and experienced, but someone being "less" of a submissive than someone else? Nah. If you're submissive online or in real life, you're submissive. End of story.

It's like saying, am I less of a friend to my best friend because we only know each other online and she has other real life friends? I don't think so.

[Talia]

It's like saying, am I less of a friend to my best friend because we only know each other online and she has other real life friends? I don't think so.

Very good point hun.

(btw we need to talk hun) (((hugs)))

[Daes]

This has been an excellent thread, I've enjoyed reading the responses.

We all need to start somewhere, how else are we to learn what we need and desire? I started online and Im glad I did, there's so much information and you can learn so much from communities.

I think the online bdsm community has a bad rep because there are so many that pose around and it makes a bad name for those that really do embrace the lifestyle. Its a shame that its judged that way. There's soo much to learn from Both online and RL, its good to know the differences between them, why those differences are there and realize that that Is okay. Its not like one can say "I am a sub" or "I am a Dom" and automatically find those in RL that are in the lifestyle that you can learn from.

I think its unfair to downplay the online D/s populus just because one has RL experience, it makes you no better than one that is just beginning to discover bdsm over the net.

As I said, we all need to start somewhere, and where that happens doesnt make Anyone less of who they are, whether it be Dom, sub, or Switch.

[Tojo]

I think Tom says it pretty well actually. I ride a Jap bike & hear how terrible it is from the owners of a 'certain brand of American motorcycle'

I cry myself to sleep every night, burning with shame for not doing exactly as they do....

This whole year I've been consumed with guilt- am I a real Dom? Are my strokes with the flogger hard enough? Is a 24/7 relationship with 10 slaves enough?

If I have a harem with male & female slaves, am I a lesser being for not having a few transexuals??

This is the one thing that makes me groan & grind my teeth in the D/s community- the divisions. We carry it right in from the outside world- where we're categorised into rich/poor, young/old- racial groups etc. etc. ad infinitum.

I'm still waiting to see the D/s rulebook- until then I'll happily believe that if you think you're a subby you probably are one. Anytime I feel like a good laugh I'll go back & make another post on one of the forums run by those who have forgotten what 'fun' means.

Funny- no one ever replies to my posts there....

Tojo

[mina]

Very good point hun.

(btw we need to talk hun) (((hugs)))

Thanks! *hugs and licks* yes we do...

And I agree with what Tojo said, "if you think you are a subby, you probably are one."

[karin]

the beauty part of this whole lifestyle..be it online or real time..is there is no 'right' or 'wrong'..there is no 'can' or 'can't'..its just..whatever works for each individual or couple. we were once involved with a bdsm group..active members...whose illustrious self-imposed leader decided that bdsm was 'his way or no way'..and anyone that deviated from that was 'wrong'. many of the 'sheep' of the group 'baah'ed' along and agreed...we simply left. we knew that that was not the way it should be. and having spent 3 years in europe, our eyes have REALLY been opened to alternate alternates LOL we have learned that SSC comes in many many varieties. and that SSC is really a very personal and invidual issue. since there are no BDSM rulebooks *thank god*...its all about personal preferences and desires.

[_ID_]

the beauty part of this whole lifestyle..be it online or real time..is there is no 'right' or 'wrong'..there is no 'can' or 'can't'..its just..whatever works for each individual or couple. we were once involved with a bdsm group..active members...whose illustrious self-imposed leader decided that bdsm was 'his way or no way'..and anyone that deviated from that was 'wrong'. many of the 'sheep' of the group 'baah'ed' along and agreed...we simply left. we knew that that was not the way it should be. and having spent 3 years in europe, our eyes have REALLY been opened to alternate alternates LOL we have learned that SSC comes in many many varieties. and that SSC is really a very personal and invidual issue. since there are no BDSM rulebooks *thank god*...its all about personal preferences and desires.

Well said

ID

[moptop]

Gosh, this has taken a long time to write. Much thought in expressing it. (Dom = Domme, Doms, Dommes)

Snobbery, cliques, 'us and them', oneupmanship - all sadly part of human nature but ignore it all. Be true to yourself is all. Anyway anyone wants to do it is their business, and if it is fulfilling, compelling and genuine, then it's the real thing.

I was certainly a submissive before I'd ever heard of the lifestyle, and that had included living BD & SM activities/scenarios in several r/l relationships, without either party having the knowledge and understanding of what we were doing and its emotional implications, aftercare needs etc.

Coming here has opened my eyes to myself, to the lifestyle, to the mind set, and the people here offer so much knowledge and acceptance of self, I am filled with awe. That they are many of them 'only' able to live their role online is irrelevant. I greatly admire those submissives who are - obviously, to my eyes - genuinely able to give themselves completely to their online Dom, without any r/l interaction: I believe it takes more self-discipline and giving than when the Dom is there to quell you in person. (I speak only of submissives, because I don't feel competent to comment on Domming.)

I have only come to o/l submission recently, with my r/l Dom, due to being temporarily apart. (Only I didn't know that's what he was, until I discovered this place; he's been leading me gently...). I have found our interaction - texts, IM, email - just as compelling as r/l, psychologically, emotionally and sexually. Sure, there are many things that can't be done as well physically as in r/l, but he certainly has control over my mind, my sexual responses: what I wear, when and where to cum, how, what with, what to do for him... etc. Absolutely takes me over in r/l.

In fact, there is a type of enjoyment/excitement in the o/l side that I don't get in r/l, just as there is enjoyment/fulfilment in the r/l side that I can't get o/l, and I believe the same is true for him. When we get back to r/l together, I know that he will continue to control me through texts/phone etc., anytime we are not together, say just going shopping. (And we both have laptops - I wouldn't be surprised if we continued our o/l relationship whilst actually being in the same house!!)

So, Talia - ignore the idiots. Be proud of who and what you are.