a bizarre question for the doctors in the community

[naomi]

my owner has requested that i make this inquiry. he would like to know if it would be possible for the sphincter muscles in the anus to be severed so that a slave would no longer have any control over her bowels. personally, the thought is quite frightening to me. can one heal up "normally" with no complications after such a procedure? what would the results be like? thank you for any insights regarding this perverted query.

respectfully,
n.

[redEva]

naomi,

while i am NOT the doctor - to the best of my knowledge - once you cause such a damage to the sphincters - once they are ruptured - that is irreparable damage - no going back.

many of us are interested in anal play – but it is based on stretching while retaining the elasticity of sphincters and thus preventing permanent damage. i hope we will get some input from members in medical profession, because this is interesting question.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

DON'T DO IT!

Tell your owner that if he cared about you, he would not ask that of you. It's way too risky and way too dangerous just to do on someone's whim.

[Pandora's Box]

We have two sets of muscles to control the exit of waste from the anus. One is smooth muscle tissue, and not under conscious control. It opens as a reflex when it feels pressure. Just as all sphincters do in the digestive track.

The second is skeletal muscle. It is under conscious control and is what we learn to control when we get potty trained as kids.

With that said, I have several concerns regarding a procedure such as this.

One, you probably won't be able to find a reputable and safe doctor willing to do it. That type of "elective" surgery is not only dangerous but doesn't even serve any cosmetic value. Doctors aren't too quick to completely mess up the function of a vital body part without a damn good reason.

Two, while muscle tissue does have the ability to heal, how well it does it depends on how the muscle is cut. With or across the grain of the muscle tissue. If you go with the grain, then the muscle has a much greater chance of healing without scar tissue and without deteriorated function. If you cut across the grain, you are severing the muscle cells and it is much harder to heal.

Third, you are dealing with an area ripe with bacteria. Any bacteria near a wound is not a good idea. Let alone having a wound in an area that manufactures bacteria as part of its natural function.

Fourth, while this is not a biological concern per se, it is a valid thought. Fantasies are great. And many fantasies should remain just that ~ fantasies. This sounds like one that should remain in that realm.

[Mobius]

I concur with the others. Fantasy is one thing. Sure it would be an ideal to be so under some ones control that you even have your bodily functions under your masters control.

But the reality would be walking around with a bag attached to your hip that your wast would be collected into. I have had friends who have had colostomy were the colon is removed and you just empty into a bag. Sounds like fun? No. While I am not a wheel chair driver I work with other's and have contact with these unfortunate individual's that do not have any control of there bodies. No arms no leg's they can not control there wast either. No one would want this and for many of them they have a do not resuscitate order in place.

You want nothing to do with this. Sure you are your owners property but your first duty is to protect your self for your owners pleasure. Some times you have to protect your self from your owners own stupidity.

Compromise offer to wear a but plug for an extended time. But do not ever do some thing as undo able as this.

[redEva]

Still no doctors, but consensus seems to be – as far as general public knows – DON’T DO IT! It is irreparable damage. One of the things I know for sure, is that during the labour, if doctor sees that mom will not be able to stretch enough and that there is possibility that she would tear, doctor makes the incision, so to ensure that the tear will not go in the direction of sphincters – for that simple reason – that the damage is permanent.

With regular enemas and but plugs – that particular function can be brought under pretty strict control – to the point where one will not be able to move bowels without enema – and just to get that fixed is painful process (not recommending – just mentioning that there are other way that are not necessarily causing permanent damage).

[Jones, Nikka]

I am not a doctor, but my mother is, so I grew up hearing about all kinds of situations during after-dinner conversations. I could tell you what she, as a surgeon would say: "Just the infection from that type of wound will kill someone!"
That has to remain a fantasy, no matter what.

[duktig flicka]

Can't you just take some laxatives and lose control temporarily?

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Try this for a week:

At the beginning of each day you wake up, poop in the bed.

While you're trying to get dressed, poop on the floor, in your clothes, on the bathroom floor, in the shower, and soil yourself while youre in the kitchen trying to make coffee and breakfast.

On your way to work, soil yourself in the car.

While you are at work, soil yourself at least a dozen times during the day.

When you get home, soil yourself again while watching the evening news and again during dinner.

When you have that relaxing soak in the tub, poop in the tub twice.

While you're having sex, be sure to poop at least three times.

Finally, while you're sleeping, poop in the bed a couple of times during the night.


Don't think you can poop that much? Well, guess again. Your body constantly cycles your waste through your system, often in little pieces about the size of the bites of food you took while you were eating. With no way to stop it, you very likely would poop between twenty and forty times a day, and there would be nothing you could do to stop it because your sphincters have been cut, so the poop would literally just fall out of you. And with no way to repair the muscles after you have had them surgically dissected, you can look forward to this everyday for the rest of your life.

Sounds fun, doesn't it?

[Pandora's Box]

Not too far off TG. Although, honestly you weren't extreme enough.

A person's digestive track never stops. Metabolism may slow due to inactivity, poor nutrition and starvation situations, but it never truly stops or takes a break.

A person who had such a procedure done would literally always be defecating. They would spend their life in dirty diapers, because as soon as they got a new pair on, they would be soiled again. It would be a nonstop continual leakage.

Not even diet management could control it because all a person has to do is smell food and the reflexive digestive movements start.

Not a fun existance.

[Mobius]

I wonder what her masters motivation was. Was it to control her continance. So that she could only go when he removed her plug? Or was it the reverse to have her humiliated by pooing all over the place.

What is this master thinking?

What he should have had her do was study induced lactation. 24 hours of squirting milk. I'm sure millie could help out with that.

[mythicat]

A person who had such a procedure done would literally always be defecating. They would spend their life in dirty diapers, because as soon as they got a new pair on, they would be soiled again. It would be a nonstop continual leakage.

Well, either dirty diapers or have to go in for MAJOR surgery to seal off the rectum and reconnect the colon to a permanent opening in the abdomen (colostomy) like Mobius said.

You would almost certainly be forced to do the latter. Because in the case of the dirty diaper you would be in constant (perhaps fatal) risk for vaginal and urinary tract infections. Can you say pain and bleeding and mondo antibiotics? Cus regular antibiotics don't reach those places intact, they have to put you on the ones that actually make you feel worse. (Been there, done that, don't recommend it!) And they mess up the bacterial balance in the colon even worse than the constant diarrhea you'd be experiencing already.

Which is another point that y'all so delicately tried to dance around. Good thing I'm here, huh? When you cant hold your fecal matter in long enough for the colon to absorb most of the water from it...which is one of the major jobs that the colon does along with absorbing some final nutrients...then you have constant watery diarrhea! This can lead to chronic dehydration and increased risk for malnutrition. And ya know how when babies are really lil and the diapers don't stink so much? And then they get older and more foods are added to the diet and the diapers start to stink more and more and lots more? Well, it only gets worse with adult poo.

How do I know? Because my mom had to have a colostomy. Hers was an emergency one for a ruptured colon and saved her life. But there are days she has said that she wished she wouldn't have pulled through. Her health is not good enough to do elective surgery, which is what it would be to have the colostomy reversed, so she's stuck with a colostomy bag hanging by her hip for the rest of her life, just like you would be. Let me tell you a little about these lovely inventions. First of all, they slip off sometimes. Big stinky mess. And they don't care where you are or what you're doing either. One of their favorite places to come off tho is in bed, because of all the movement and rolling over on them when they might be full, etc. Nothing like waking up covered in diarrhea to a bright sunny day full of laundry!

And even aside from the 24/7 pouch of diarrhea you carry around, there's also gas. It goes into the bag too, and you have to let it out manually. And oh my sweet holy lord! That is the worst smelling substance on the face of the planet! And I'm not talking regular fart stink from a healthy colon like we all know and love; this stuff is a biohazard! And if you don't let it out, it starts to seep and it's just this constant horrific stench til you do. Even when there isn't gas tho, sometimes just having the bag kinda full gives off this moderately poisonous aroma. I'm sure you'd be very popular at all the events your Master would undoubtedly want to show you off at. Not that anyone could see much of you since you wouldn't be in anything too slinky because of the bulk of that bag on your hip.

But don't worry, eventually you'll get old and won't want to wear that stuff anyway. And here's where the real fun begins! Cus assuming you'll be like most elderly people, eventually, if only temporarily, you'll wind up sick or disabled to the point that you wont be able to change your own bag and other people will have to take care of you. Now let's skip right over the whole humiliation factor of paying some stranger to handle your sh*t, cus hey, maybe that might be the ultimate thrill for some people here. The main problem is that these people don't give a rat's behind about you and will put off this unsavory task as often and for as long as they possibly can. They will let your crap burst forth and spill out all over you and your sheets just so that the next shift will have to deal with you. And even when they don't, they'll be more than happy to stand right outside your room and argue over who has to attend to you. Think I'm kidding? Both of those happened to my mom a few times while she was in the hospital last year for several months recovering from a virus. And my parents paid several hundred dollars a day for that kind of care!

Which is another point. Both diapers and colostomy bags are expensive. And even if you have insurance that covers them, a lot of companies set limits on what quantity of these products they will pay for. After that you pay for your own, or in the case of colostomy bags you can reuse them for a day or two. Not easy to clean out when you're old and have arthritis tho. And if you don't get them clean enough at least up by the seal, it can make the wound around around the opening (which never heals over) very sore and weepy and inflamed. Which in turns makes the seal of the colostomy not want to seal. And just pray that you're not allergic (or become allergic from exposure) to the adhesive used to seal the bag to the opening...cus then you're pretty much screwed.

I just wanted to elaborate on what others had been saying already to make sure you got a very realistic view of what exactly it would mean to live the rest of your life without bowel control.

And if you were to go the enema/laxative route...keep in mind that especially over time, those methods could also have consequences including dehydration, malnutrition, and disruption of the healthy bacteria in the colon.

Pretty sexy, huh?


PS- If you're over 50, consider this a wake up call to get your colon checked before it's too late!

[naomi]

i should have checked my thread sooner!

to all...interested parties:

my owner has no interest in having such a procedure performed on me. we were merely discussing the idea of removing a slave's ability to control even the most mundane of actions we take for granted every day. the evil topic arose from that discussion. he was interested in the medical complications and physical ramifications involved if such a procedure was performed.

thank you all for your thoughtful and well-informed responses to my depraved scenario!

respectfully,
n.

[mythicat]

Oh sure, close the thread right after I type all that! lol

That's ok, I'm leaving it up anyway.


If you can't set a good example, at least serve as a horrible warning.

[Pandora's Box]

Good post Mythicat.

You are correct. Living with a colostomy is not fun. At all. Ever since my father's bout with colon cancer 10 years ago, he has had to live with a colostomy bag.

Insurance, bag bursting, maintenance, money for medical issues, embarrassment, uncleanliness, germs... they're things that get to be experienced as long as one has to deal with a colostomy bag.

You covered it all very well but left one thing out.

Count on never getting another good night's sleep again. If you aren't up every few hours emptying the bag, it's a mess every morning.

Edited To Add: Hehehe - missed the last two posts. Well naomi, I'm glad to hear that this was a strictly suppositional exercise.

[AndrewBlack]

Naomi

The anus is notoriously difficult to repair and once ruptured it's a disaster. So much so that it is the reason that in the UK episiotomies ( the labial cuts performed during birth so the labia don't tear ) are done diagonally on one side so that if they extend they don't intrude on the anus. In the US the cut is done in the midline at the back of the vulva compromising risk of anal tearing for a better cosmetic result afterwards.

A temporary bypass of anal continence seems a little harder. Theoretically you could do one sphincter with bo-tox but that's ludicrously extreme. A hollow butt-plug and laxatives perhaps?

A lot easier and almost as humiliating/disabling for the slave would be to remove urinary continence. You can bypass your bladder control simply by inserting a catheter ( sterile technique ), you could cut it short ( at increased risk of ascending infection ) and you'll happily leak any mess your body produces all over the floor/your pants...etc..

Try that one at the roadside

[slavelucy]

my owner has no interest in having such a procedure performed on me. we were merely discussing the idea of removing a slave's ability to control even the most mundane of actions we take for granted every day .

Yeah, i kinda got the feeling, when i read your intial post, that it was more a fantasy/ 'imagine if' scenario, as opposed to a serious suggestion. *smiles*

i think people were just a bit worried for you in case it WAS a serious suggestion. i guess either way you very much get that it isn't a good idea!

sl

[naomi]

i appreciate the concern shown by everyone here. it is a wonderful environment and lovely community! i am very grateful.

respectfully,
n.

[Donatien]

my owner has requested that i make this inquiry. he would like to know if it would be possible for the sphincter muscles in the anus to be severed so that a slave would no longer have any control over her bowels. personally, the thought is quite frightening to me. can one heal up "normally" with no complications after such a procedure? what would the results be like? thank you for any insights regarding this perverted query.

respectfully,
n.

I have just noticed this thread.As Red-eva has already pointed out, in childbirth midwives or doctors will sometimes make a deliberate cut ( episiotomy) through the side of the vagina to avoid it tearing;which can happen If the baby is large and the vaginal wall does not stretch enough. In the worst kind of tear it goes right through to the anus and rectum ,joining them up. This needs to be repaired surgically and can be quite a difficult procedure sometimes. If any tears in muscles are left, they heal with scar tissue which is lax and weak e.g. womens vaginal walls after childbirth in the third world where incontinence is common. There is a story '' Candice '' by Stephen Rawlings in which his sub girl is sent to an arab prince's palace for surgical remodelling of her anus so that ''the opening was edged by a roll of dark rubbery flesh, its cross-section rather thicker than a pencil and the whole forming an oval, about 3 cm long,raised above the floor of the buttock valley a little, and looking for all the world like a small red sea anenome left straned by the tide''.The purpose was to produce a thick protective anal ring that could be easily stretched to 2 inches diameter without risk of splitting. the downside was a tendency to incontinence, and for the Candice the fact that the operation was deliberately carried out with her in full consciousness in order for her to experience all the pain. ''it happened again and again, the sites of the anguish travelling round the stretched perimeter of her anus.....it seemed to go on for ever.Helga was taking in strips of the sorrounding skin and incorporating them into the anal ring, to give it bulk and strength. .....When Helga cauterised the worst of the bleeding with an electrically heated wire, Candice honked through the gag, and again when she finished off with surgical staples to hold the whole assembly together''. Enough to make one's eyes water at the thought of it- strictly fantasy, although no doubt feasible . It was published by olympia press and may still be available on-line from ''' Olympia@bound.demon.co.uk'' e-mail; --web site www.olympia-press.co.uk