The Rocky Road to Publishing

[Ruby]

It's always great to hear about an author on the forums who's published a story, poem or book.

I'd like to hear about the trials along the way.

What worked?
What didn't?
What type of advice can you provide to others?
What are/were your criterias for success?
When did you or will you feel like you've reached them?

So many questions, I'm sure many of you can create a few of your own.

Let's make this thread a place where we can ask each other questions about the publishing market and share the research and experiences we've learned.

Authors wanting to be published: ask away.

Published authors: please share.

[alura]

I published a poem on an online magazine. I just emailed it in, they liked it and they published it. Weird. Must've been dumb luck at the time. I've found that new writers seem to have a lot more success at online and small press magazines, though, initially, because most of them don't require that you have an agent and also, the majority of them ARE mostly all soliciated manuscripts; some of them are 90% percent (or better) mostly written BY the readers. I've had some published in those as well. My personal opinion is that it doesn't matter so much if you make a lot of money at first; what really matters is getting those Kudos under your belt so that when you go for the big money...big mag....you can pull out your 'refs'.
Also, I highly recommend to EVERY writer to buy (yearly) the new writers digest book that contains all the up to date small press, big press, magazines, periodicals, etc etc with all the new and updated editors, etc. This book is invaluable because not only does it tell you what every single solitary place is LOOKING for, but also their guidelines, their do's and don'ts, how much they pay per word...per article (sometimes this can vary either they pay by word or by article....sometimes they only pay in magazines), etc. Plus it has lots of valuable tips; how to write excellent query letters, etc etc. Another important reason to invest in this book is because quite often the editors of different departments, addresses, emails, etc, may change from year to year. This book is priceless; trust me on this! The new updated ones usually come out in January.
IN ADDITION, I think it's so important to have a group where you can get your work edited, read other people's work, etc etc.....if you haven't found that sort of place anywhere yet, permit me to 'plug' here by saying that 'writing.com' is the number one creative writing site in america...and it's free! Even Ruby knows about it.......it's where she and I MET for the first time.

It's always great to hear about an author on the forums who's published a story, poem or book.

I'd like to hear about the trials along the way.

What worked?
What didn't?
What type of advice can you provide to others?
What are/were your criterias for success?
When did you or will you feel like you've reached them?

So many questions, I'm sure many of you can create a few of your own.

Let's make this thread a place where we can ask each other questions about the publishing market and share the research and experiences we've learned.

Authors wanting to be published: ask away.

Published authors: please share.

[Ruby]

... My personal opinion is that it doesn't matter so much if you make a lot of money at first; what really matters is getting those Kudos under your belt so that when you go for the big money...big mag....you can pull out your 'refs'.
...Also, I highly recommend to EVERY writer to buy (yearly) the new writers digest book that contains all the up to date small press, big press, magazines, periodicals, etc etc with all the new and updated editors, etc.
...IN ADDITION, I think it's so important to have a group where you can get your work edited, read other people's work, etc etc.....if you haven't found that sort of place anywhere yet, permit me to 'plug' here by saying that 'writing.com' is the number one creative writing site in america...and it's free!

Excellent advice, Alura.

If you don't have the money for the yearly Writer's Handbook, that's okay, too. Pick up one at a used book store for a couple of bucks and start planning your strategy. When you've got something to publish, then hit your local library for a new copy.

Joining a writing circle, critique club is a fantastic way to get some good hard feedback.

[Ruby]

Getting your BDSM books or stories published

Here are some sites that sell BDSM e-books that support self published authors.

Yes, that's right - you, the author - can contact them directly, negotiate a royalty payment, retain your rights and sell your books / short stories:

www.a1adultebooks.com

www.bdsmbooks.com

www.bondagebookshelf.com

www.maidenheadbooks.com

www.fictionwise.com
Note: they only want previously published work at this site.

Here are some sites that sell only work they have published:

http://www.adultbookshops.com/

http://www.chimerabooks.co.uk/

http://www.circlet.com/home.html

http://www.ellorascave.com/index.asp

http://www.olympia-press.co.uk/

http://www.pinkflamingo.com/

http://www.renebooks.com/

http://www.wickedvelvet.com/

Here are some links for writers of erotica:

http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/AR/AR-Main.htm

The link below has submission guidelines for a large number of publishers. It also tells you how much you can make with particular magazines, e-zines and anthologies.

http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/G/G-Main.htm

Like your erotica on the dark side? Great tips and tricks for writers here:

http://www.darkerotica.net/

Sites to add?
Comments?
Questions?
What type of experiences do you have to share?
What road has been less rocky or the most?

Inquiring minds want to know. Who's next?

[sweetlitlwon]

Getting your BDSM books or stories published

Here are some sites that sell BDSM e-books that support self published authors.

Yes, that's right - you, the author - can contact them directly, negotiate a royalty payment, retain your rights and sell your books / short stories:

www.a1adultebooks.com

www.bdsmbooks.com

www.bondagebookshelf.com

www.maidenheadbooks.com

www.fictionwise.com
Note: they only want previously published work at this site.

Here are some sites that sell only work they have published:

http://www.adultbookshops.com/

http://www.chimerabooks.co.uk/

http://www.circlet.com/home.html

http://www.ellorascave.com/index.asp

http://www.olympia-press.co.uk/

http://www.pinkflamingo.com/

http://www.renebooks.com/

http://www.wickedvelvet.com/

Here are some links for writers of erotica:

http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/AR/AR-Main.htm

The link below has submission guidelines for a large number of publishers. It also tells you how much you can make with particular magazines, e-zines and anthologies.

http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/G/G-Main.htm

Like your erotica on the dark side? Great tips and tricks for writers here:

http://www.darkerotica.net/

Sites to add?
Comments?
Questions?
What type of experiences do you have to share?
What road has been less rocky or the most?

Inquiring minds want to know. Who's next?

Thanks for the links Ruby I have had a few BDSM/erotic poems (also some regular ones) published and am currently working on a full length book aimed towards yoyr every day woman who just happens to be a sub. Your links will provide me with some great outlets I am sure!!!I am going to check out your book now!!!Thanks for the info.

[Powerone]

My first novel was published in the middle of February. Originally I had contracted with Ghede Publishing (an offshoot of Ellorascave.com, the romantic novel publisher) over a year ago. They had problems and after almost a year (I signed contract in July) they decided not to publish erotica because of the difficulties of getting payment processors to take payment for erotica.

I had contacted Renaissnace books on my second novel and signed a contract with them for that (Hollister School for Girls) and will be out soon. When Ghede called it quits, I asked Renaissance to publish Teaching The Au Pair To Submit first, which they did. In fact they published it within a week, since it was already edited, etc. The only thing needed was a cover.

It came out February 18 and has been highly successful. It is on renaissance Books website (renebooks.com) in addition it is on fictionwise.com (It is #2 on erotica and #6 of all e-books), mobipocket.com (#1), ebooksad.com (#5) and amazon.com and borders.com (the best I have got on Amazon is #25,000, but you have to remember, I have one version that is microsoft reader that was #864,000, though it is #164,000 today). This is after two months. It has proved to be quite lucrative.


I was in the top of the list on Renaissance for March and doing quite well for April. I am working on a third novel, Island Lust (about 3/4 finished) and am starting to write a romantic novel (For the Pleasure of Her Husband).

In addition, if you haven't tried it yet, don't forget Jinn's bdsmillustrated.com. It pays writers based on how good their stories do. I have a highly successful series (Mexican Rebels Sex Slaves, 6 chapters) with illustrations by the famous illustrator, Aires. My series has been running since December, with chapter 7 submitted for illustrations today.

[Ruby]

Congratulations Powerone and thanks for hopping in the thread.

So, how do you define successful?
By sales?
By the ratings?
Do you know how many of your books have sold?

If you were to do this again - would you recommend this publisher to others? What about the contract? Any changes you'd make?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Ruby
XXX 000

[Mad Lews]

Getting your BDSM books or stories published

Sites to add?
Comments?
Questions?
What type of experiences do you have to share?
What road has been less rocky or the most?

Inquiring minds want to know. Who's next?

Just a question that might be plaguing some of us " Not ready for prime time writers", When we post stories on sites such as this one, Literotica, and similar places are we giving up our " intellectual property" and how would it effect latter use of revised, expanded, and edited copies of such stories. Any insight from the experienced writers would be appreciated

Mad Lews

[acissej]

I don't work on much erotica, but if anyone wants an editor's perspective on how to prepare a query or on any general publishing questions, feel free to PM me. I'm afraid I won't be very helpful with issues of self-publishing and e-books, but I'd be able to help with questions regarding traditional publishing houses and literary agents.

And here's some more info on other publishers who do erotica:

As of two weeks ago, Ellora's Cave was accepting all erotica romance genres but F/m. The most popular for them are vampire/shapeshifter, futuristic and bondage/M/f. They're also interested in acquiring gay/lesbian romances. Must be a minimum of 20,000 words and they prefer submissions be over 40,000 words. EC only publishes erotic romance, not erotica. But they are starting up some kind of new erotica program that will run under a different name and are actively searching for submissions.

They're keeping pretty quiet about it, but MIRA Books (an imprint of Harlequin) is actively acquiring classy erotica for a new program. You must have an agent to submit. There's no info up on their websites (www.eharlequin.com and/or www.mirabooks.com), but PM me and I can give you the name of the editor heading up the program.

ImaJinn is starting a new paranormal erotica line. From what I understand, they'll accept queries from unagented, unpublished authors, but won't accept unsolicited partials or completes. More info at www.imajinnbooks.com.

Pocket Books is doing erotica, but only accepts agented submissions. If you want the names of the editors interested in erotica, PM me.

Red Sage Publishing is looking for "sensuous, bold, spicy, untamed, hot, and somtimes politically incorrect stories." Their ideal submissions are between 35-40,000 words long, but will take submissions longer and shorter. And they welcome unagented authors. www.redsagepub.com

[Ruby]

acissej,

Thanks! Great stuff...just what I was looking for when I started this thread.
Am looking forward to checking out your links.

[Ruby]

Just a question that might be plaguing some of us " Not ready for prime time writers", When we post stories on sites such as this one, Literotica, and similar places are we giving up our " intellectual property" and how would it effect latter use of revised, expanded, and edited copies of such stories. Any insight from the experienced writers would be appreciated

Mad Lews

Mad Lews, excellent questions.

Are you giving up your intellectual property by posting it to sites for "free"?
No. However, please, please, please, put copyright information on your work.

Copyright (c) 2005 Your Name or the Name of your Pub House. All rights reserved.

For example:
Copyright (c) 2005 Spice and Sugar Publications. All rights reserved.
or
Copyright (c) 2005 Ruby Bloodstone. All rights reserved.

This is your claim of ownership and creates a legal trail that can be followed.

How does it effect latter use of revised, expanded, and edited copies of such stories when they are placed on site like Literotica or the BDSM Library?

It affects the potential sales price and ability to publish.

Many publishers will not publish work that has been given away for free.
Many on-line book stores will not sell books that were previously given away for free.

But it's not the same book? Honest!

Okay - great. Then make sure all previous copies have been removed from free sites. Ensure that the work is substantially better, revised, enhanced, etc. from what you placed out there before.

Jaeangel's work Hell to Heaven is a great example of this.
She took down the free story, did a complete editing refresh and
added new chapters. Afterwards, she sent it out for another edit from her publisher. Then the publisher packaged it for sale.
(I know, because we share the same publisher.)

A good rule of thumb is to not post more than 3 chapters of any full length novel that you plan to publish. Many book sellers will decline to sell a book if they find the book on the web for free and more than 3 chapters available. In fact, many prefer to limit you to two chapters.

Who will read and critique my book/story while it's in progress?

Hopefully a group of people that you can trust. Both Alura and I use www.writing.com, but we use it in different ways. She can comment how she gets story feedback.

I post mostly finished work. She posts work in progress. Since you have control of your account, you can lock it so only select people can read what you've posted and you can remove your material at any time.

Other writers, publishers, editors out there - Comments? Suggestions? We'd like to hear from you. Who's next?

[Powerone]

Ellora's Cave did have plans for publishing erotica under Ghede Publishing. But after a year they changed their mind due to the problems with credit card companies. My first novel Teaching the Au Pair To Submit was originally under contract with Ghede until their demise in February when they finally threw in the sponge. They left a lot of writers still scrambling for a new publisher

But their romantic publishing is one of the largest.

For those that don't know the difference between romance and erotica, romance can only have one partner and they must "live happily ever after".

As of two weeks ago, Ellora's Cave was accepting all erotica romance genres but F/m. The most popular for them are vampire/shapeshifter, futuristic and bondage/M/f. They're also interested in acquiring gay/lesbian romances. Must be a minimum of 20,000 words and they prefer submissions be over 40,000 words. EC only publishes erotic romance, not erotica. But they are starting up some kind of new erotica program that will run under a different name and are actively searching for submissions.


[/url]

[Powerone]

I am told every month the number of sales of my book. In fact my publisher has also been giving me the major sites sales by week.

I've been writing erotica for about four years, this being my first novel for sale. I am a very prolific writer, having about 100 stories written (all on this site as well as others). Some of my stories on Literotica have over 200,000 views. I guess I always wondered whether anyone would read them if they had to pay. To me, success is that people would pay to read my stories.

I look at all things, ratings, sales and reviews. I guess the most gratifying thing is seeing my novel on the Top 10 lists.

The contract is standard, not much to quibble about one way or another. The one I had for Teaching the Au Pair To Submit for Ghede Publishing was almost the same for Renaissance E-books. Very general, mainly in how you will get paid, how long it will last and what it entails (e-book, print, other types, etc).

I would recommend the publisher to others. That's not to mean that there has not been bumps in the road. I look at how many books have been sold. That is the measure of a good publisher. You can have the greatest book, the best cover art, but if you only sell three copies I don't think the publisher is doing enough.

You also have to promote your own book. The publisher can't be the only one marketing your book. You have to actively take part if you want it to be successful.

P1

Congratulations Powerone and thanks for hopping in the thread.

So, how do you define successful?
By sales?
By the ratings?
Do you know how many of your books have sold?

If you were to do this again - would you recommend this publisher to others? What about the contract? Any changes you'd make?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Ruby
XXX 000

[acissej]

I spoke yesterday at a writers' conference with a few other editors and agents, and an editor from Kensington announced that they're starting an erotica (not romantica) program in early 2006. They're looking for full-length novels of about 90,000 to 100,000 words and he said they're open to anything, including gay and lesbian. He didn't specifically mention BDSM stories and I wasn't in a position to ask, but it seemed like they'd be allowed. Oh, also, he said these books will be available both electronically and in hard copy. If anyone's interested, PM me and I'll give you the names of the editors to query.

[Ruby]

acissej,

When they post writer's submission guidelines, perhaps you could please let us know in this thread.

If you want to talk/write about the conference, the name, whether or not you think conferences like that are worth an author's time, please do.

Thank you so much for dropping by and alerting us to this new opportunity.

Ruby

[acissej]

When they post writer's submission guidelines, perhaps you could please let us know in this thread.

Kensington's website doesn't offer much help to writers. The guidelines aren't listed, but perhaps if one were to call the editorial office or mail an SASE with a request for guidelines, Kensington would provide them.

If you want to talk/write about the conference, the name, whether or not you think conferences like that are worth an author's time, please do.

The conference I went to was rather small and geared primarily towards women's fiction writers, so there was heavy emphasis on chick lit, lady lit, romance, romantic suspense and romantica. African-American, Latina, young adult and erotica were also touched upon. It was sponsored by the Romance Writers of America who do a phenomenal job educating their members (close to 10,000 of them) on the entire publishing process, from writing to submissions to contracts and so on.

As the name suggests, the RWA is extremely romance-focused, but as more and more sub-genres in women's fiction have evolved, the organization has also evolved to accomodate their members. The RWA is broken down into various chapters across the country that periodically have small conferences, but they have a ginormous national meeting every July that is well-attended by women's fiction editors and agents. I'm not sure what the policy is about non-members attending and how much it costs, but the conference lasts four days and has probably at least a hundred various workshops led by editors, agents and published authors on topics such as how to query properly, to editors pet peeves, to how to heighten tension and build character conflicts, with sessions on contracts and copyright law, and doing research and so on. Editors and agents are also available for appointments in which unpublished writers can pitch their stories to them.

I highly, highly recommend the conference for romance writers, but think it is also valuable for writers in other areas of women's fiction. The workshops are very educational and the conference (like many other conferences) provides a rare opportunity to meet face-to-face with editors and agents, especially when many publishers won't normally consider unagented projects.

[crimson]

i got lucky... i co-authored with Geoff Merrick for the non-illustrated "Tatyana Transcripts" (tatyana - that would be me .

It is still selling on the dofantasy.com site. It would have had much better sales if it had been illustrated (as all novels are!). i look back on it... read through it... i seem like such an amateur! my writing now is SOOOO much better and i wish i could do it all over again.

Perhaps i will - i intend on emailing Geoff and seeing if we can do a sequel, or perhaps an entirely new piece.

for now... i'll continue to contribute stuff under "crimson".

Oh... and before anyone says a word - yes, i'm working on more chapters for Passenger Train, so stop emailing me!!!

Oh ok... please... email me... i admit it... i'm a feedback whore.

[Ruby]

Thinking about signing a contract? You may want to read this first: "Your Rights as an Author" at writing.com

http://www2.writing.com/main/view_item/item_id/860454

There's some very interesting tips and things to think about.

To all your success,

Ruby

[bearbeast]

Thanks Ruby


for your information, I have kept it in my folder for future referance I may one day need it ........?

bye bye for now

bearbeast.

[Sean Malone]

I started writing my fantasies down in my teens. Later I discovered the Literary and Fantasy Group of the Forum Society, which was a mail based writers' group in the UK. It was a very tough group that gave me a good start in writing for publication. One of my first stories published in the Group Newsletter is here:



Some of the other members became best selling authors of erotic novels.

After that I had a series of short stories published in Pleasure Bound magazine, published by the company which has become Olympia Press. These were erotic science fiction, Mf bondage / slavery oriented stories. I also had a short story published in Secret magazine. However I was not paid for any of this.

These early stories were written before I really learned to write dialogue, and that has been an important step in the development of my writing style. It did not come easily at first, but now I have learned to bring characters to life as well as the scenarios that they are in, in new stories written under a different pen name. I am constantly pestered by readers who want more!

More recently I have been working on a novel about the sexual adventures of a professional woman crew member on a merchant vessel in space. It is about three quarters finished. I decided that this time I wanted to be paid, and I want my book to be on the shelves in high street bookshops. These days it might easily finish up online as well, as electronic publishing is here to stay. As nothing I have offered to a publisher has been turned down yet, I feel quietly confident that I will succeed in having this book published, but I am not in touch with the right people, and I really appreciate the information provided in here.

[Dr Mabeuse]

I've got 2 books out now, and two more on the way.

Like Powerone (the dog!) I was contacted by an editor from Ghede books about my BDSM "Abigail" novel. (It went through a bunch of title changes and finally emerged as "Overcoming Abigail") Ghede held it for almost a year before going bust, and then Ellora's Cave--Ghede's parent company--picked it up. It came out last June and is doing okay. I won't be retiring to the south of France anytime soon on the royalties, but the checks are nice.


EC also bought my "Helene Blackmailed" and that should be out in a month or two now. They have 2 more manuscripts under consideration.

I sent "The Croft", an erotic vampire story, to Extasy and signed a contract last April, but they're slower than molasses and are terrible about answering mail. I don't know what the status of that is now. They're so backlogged that they've stopped taking new submissions.

And then my private eye spoof, "The Bound Angel" was picked up by Renaissance and came out in September, I think. I found out by accident. Renaissance never informed me. Haven't been paid yet either, but they pay quarterly.

EC is good because they have a big market presence and advertise. In a lot of ways, getting published is the easy part. You've still got to advertise and get your title out there so people know about it. Renaissance and Extasy don't have the weight EC does, but EC doesn't publish everything. They're looking for erotic romance.

My advice is, submit early and often. It can take a publisher up to 6 months to get back to you (although Renaissance claims they'll have a reply in 6 weeks and they were as good as their word) but they will read it and they will let you know. Besides, what good does that book do you sitting on your computer?

Before you submit, though, go to the publisher's site and find out (1) what they're looking for (it's no good trying to sell your heavy S&M stuff to Ellora's Cave, for instance), and (2) how they want it submitted--what format, entire book or just 3 chapters and synopsis, cover letter or what--and follow their instructions to the letter. They won't read it if you don't.

Here's a good place to find publishers as well:

http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/G/BestAmerican.htm

--Dr M.

[diannavesta.com]

This is an excellent thread Ruby. Lots of good information.

I wrote an ongoing column for years in Nugget Magazine. Through the years I pretty much focused on articles to promote my various adult venues. Instead of getting paid most publishers gave me ad space or the ability to plug my products & services.

I’ve been asked to write books and I will, however I will most likely self publish and promote. I am already established and have a pretty good size mailing list. The work I do is very niche so it in itself has its own market. If at all possible I highly recommend focusing on a niche that you’re into and building a following because it guarantees books sales.

The book I am working on now I will actually print because of the type of book and it’s a tad cultish. It all plays in with the concept.

If you’d like to print your books check out www.lulu.com They even have a lady who you can hire to do proof reading. It’s a great service.

DV

[General_Dom]

I've had good luck with a1adultebooks. Stuart is very easy to deal with and you get to keep 60% of your sales.... beats the heck out of most traditional publishing deals, though you do have to market your work very aggressively to get anywhere without MASSIVE volume......

[Rabbit1]

Excellent Thread ---and great advice---I started out writing on a free forum much like this one that turned into a pay forum---it was nice to start getting paid for the stories I had submitted ---I got paid by the download.

I now have 5 novels published one from a first chapter of a story I submitted here in a story contest.

This is one reason I volunteer here --is to help new authors get a start---refine their writing skills---and hopefully become better at what they like to do.

[Ruby]

Rabbit1, please don't be a tease.

Who is your publisher? How's it working out?
Would you recommend them to others?

Ever curious,

Ruby

[General_Dom]

One thing I would highly recommend to new authors, especially those seeking a publisher, is construction of a "promotional sheet."

This is a small document (generally under 10 pages) that summarizes --- and SELLS --- your novel. It contains detailed character sketches (background, motivations) and a detailed plot synopsis --- something many publishers will require since it demonstrates that your work has something of a "story arc" and isn't just a series of randomly strung together sex/torture scenes. The synopsis also gives the publisher a better idea of the "buttons" you wish to push with your target audience. Helpful, since many publishers market exclusively to niche audiences.

Writing a promo sheet can also be a very effective "workbook" for you, the writer, as well. It forces you to really explore your character's inner workings and their relationships to each other. I will often stop and write a promo sheet mid-novel just to get the creative juices flowing. It's a great method for routing writer's block.

If you are interested in seeing an example of a promo sheet, I would be glad to share the one I constructed for "Loser's Bluff," a novel that I had published by A1AdultEBooks after the first draft was available on BDSM Lib for a short time last spring. Just click on my name to send me email.

Thanks, and best wishes to all the fine writers out in BDSM land....

GD

[Slut4U]

This has been very helpful for me. Thank you guys so much
Slut4U

[Slut4U]

Has anyone heard of Blue Moon Books INC. a friend told me that they do alot of erotica publishing. Is that true? I cant find a website.
Slut4U

[Ruby]

Blue Moon was purchased by Avalon Publishing Group and while the books are part of their catalog, I couldn't find any calls for submission or writer's guidelines for them.

For the most recent list of calls for submissions & publishing opportunities in the erotica market, visit the
Erotica Readers & Writers Association

http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/G/G-Main.htm

If you join their e-newsletter, you'll get up to date submissions in your in-box.

[Slut4U]

Ruby,
Thank you very much for your help. I didnt know that about Blue Moon. You have been so helpful. I am very greatful that you have started this tread
Slut4U