Secrets and Lies

[sidhewolf]

What Good do secrets and lies do? Whatever is the Point of these things? What is the message to a person about a person who does them? How can a Real Relationship be had with someone who is not Honest? Someone who manipulates the Truth? Someone who has secrets from and in a Relationship that affect the Relationship itself?

There are Dominants who lie, there are Submissives who lie....there are people who lie. And How does one seperate what is True and Real from the lies and secrets with a person like this? Does Knowing someone help decipher these things? Knowing but not Really Knowing? Don't secrets and lies prevent True Intimacy? Break Trust? Prevent a True Power Exchange?

Or is it just me?

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[Moonraker]

Ah sidhewolf, you're missing out on all the fun we have in the world of deceipt and deception. On a deeper note, the secrets and lies that people tell give far more away about themselves than if they told to tell the truth. I'm sure you have a few skeltons hidden somewhere. Personally I like to blend truth with lie. Why do I lie you ask, to get what I want I say. Bad? Evil? Perhaps, but I am the product of our society. Maybe honesty should start at the top. Maybe we should ask our leaders if they have been telling us fibs. And yes, knowing sombody does help decipher these things. When my wife asks me if i slept with another woman last night, she knows the answer to the question. Its written all over my dick.

[Ozme52]

sidhewolf, each secret has to be judged on it's own merit. In general you're right, but a few are worth keeping, when the truth is hurtful and the secret does no harm save for the fact that it was kept... Lies can be big or exeptionally small. The small ones may be as inoccuous as not liking a gift that was given. Why be hurtful saying so.

However it appears that some of the secrets you've become aware of have in themselves hurt you... perhaps shaken your confidence in your partner? Communication helps... presuming it isn't so gross a lie as to be unforgiveable... But if you talk about it, perhaps you can come to a common point of understanding where you can see how your partner thought the secret was better and he can come to see how it wasn't... and move forward.

moonraker, your perspective just seems too cynical, and manipulative for my tastes. Some might say self-serving... and those kinds of lies and secrets, in my opinion, end up costing you more in the long run than you gain in the short run.

[gagged_Louise]

Sometimes "telling the truth" and being your honest and frank buddy who tells you (their old-friend/child/colleague-and-friend) the open truth can be an excellent way to put other people - you or me - down, under the inassailable cloak of frankness and love of truth. There is a "telling the truth" that's really a shielded way of poking other people in the face, or asserting they shouldn't believe in themselves, in what they do.

"Well, as your best friend I can tell you those shoes/that skirt don't really do you favour", "You know you have to do x and x and x and x before your mom-in-law arrives here? Have you forgotten? Ooh, how bad. Shouldn't you get a better hoover and a place that's easier to clean up? Oh my..." (yes in time I should, but I don't need you to tell me and push it into my mind again and again - and nor do I need to be reminded of that I don't have the cash to look for a new apartment right now, from someone who earns twice as much as I do...)

Telling the truth in this way is a kind of exercise of power, a way to keep other people - friends, relatives, grown-up children - feeling inadequate. And it can be totally invisible to the one who's doing it, or even a mutual activity, but in the end it gets grinding on any relation.

[Guest 91108]

hrm.. sometimes ... whether something is truth or secret or lie depends on teh perception of another. More often than not, We make our own problems by opening to others.

“Truth flows from universal law, not from personal views.” ~~ John G Agno

[sidhewolf]

Ah sidhewolf, you're missing out on all the fun we have in the world of deceipt and deception. On a deeper note, the secrets and lies that people tell give far more away about themselves than if they told to tell the truth. I'm sure you have a few skeltons hidden somewhere. Personally I like to blend truth with lie. Why do I lie you ask, to get what I want I say. Bad? Evil? Perhaps, but I am the product of our society. Maybe honesty should start at the top. Maybe we should ask our leaders if they have been telling us fibs. And yes, knowing sombody does help decipher these things. When my wife asks me if i slept with another woman last night, she knows the answer to the question. Its written all over my dick.

Nope, no skeletons with me. Not a bone collector Moonraker. I also don't agree with lying to "get what one wants". While one is perhaps in a sense as you say "a product of society", one Is who one is based on what they themselves have decided to be I think. I do not aspire to be a liar, or a manipulator of OP.

You let the ladies write on your dick? lol :P

[sidhewolf]

sidhewolf, each secret has to be judged on it's own merit. In general you're right, but a few are worth keeping, when the truth is hurtful and the secret does no harm save for the fact that it was kept... Lies can be big or exeptionally small. The small ones may be as inoccuous as not liking a gift that was given. Why be hurtful saying so.

However it appears that some of the secrets you've become aware of have in themselves hurt you... perhaps shaken your confidence in your partner? Communication helps... presuming it isn't so gross a lie as to be unforgiveable... But if you talk about it, perhaps you can come to a common point of understanding where you can see how your partner thought the secret was better and he can come to see how it wasn't... and move forward.

moonraker, your perspective just seems too cynical, and manipulative for my tastes. Some might say self-serving... and those kinds of lies and secrets, in my opinion, end up costing you more in the long run than you gain in the short run.

Well Ozme, I do try to avoid saying hurtfull things whenever I can most times, that is unless I *intend* to slam with my words. Like the Gift received that I Really did not want. I express my appreciation I was thought of, and Given something, but at the same time if You knew me ITF, I have a Face that Tells Everything. I've only received one Gift that shook me with absolute horror lol. I closed the box and avoided the phone calls to check on my impression of it for a month lol. I peeked back in about once a week until I could behold this thing with my eyes, and that it was actually created for me at a jewelers by my Mother. Today I Love it....but it's something that grew on me <G>.

Yes Ozme, Your perception of my current situation is correct, in All of the above. I am hurt and I am angry. I don't and have never done well with secrets and lies that affect me. I hate seeing them hurt someone else. I don't do well when someone Changes an Agreement that affects me without re-negotiating it. And yes my core is shaken wholly in my Partner, and in my Life, by what has occurred. I have a lot of thinking to do on these things. An communicating I have been believe me.

But it occurred to me today WTF and whats the point of such things? And the Knowledge they hardly ever turn out well. Maybe things can move forward? I dunno right now.

Unforgiveness eats the one who does not forgive Really, and breaks the bridge we all may have to cross one day. So I can't see myself there carrying a galaoul like Tilk. There'ss only room for me in this body <G>.

I just think one should do what they say or Agree to, and re-negotiate or talk things through if some needs to be different. So The Time for talking was before now <sighs>. I hope in the long run things can turn positive....

Thank You Ozme for Your thoughts and input.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[sidhewolf]

Sometimes "telling the truth" and being your honest and frank buddy who tells you (their old-friend/child/colleague-and-friend) the open truth can be an excellent way to put other people - you or me - down, under the inassailable cloak of frankness and love of truth. There is a "telling the truth" that's really a shielded way of poking other people in the face, or asserting they shouldn't believe in themselves, in what they do.

"Well, as your best friend I can tell you those shoes/that skirt don't really do you favour", "You know you have to do x and x and x and x before your mom-in-law arrives here? Have you forgotten? Ooh, how bad. Shouldn't you get a better hoover and a place that's easier to clean up? Oh my..." (yes in time I should, but I don't need you to tell me and push it into my mind again and again - and nor do I need to be reminded of that I don't have the cash to look for a new apartment right now, from someone who earns twice as much as I do...)

Telling the truth in this way is a kind of exercise of power, a way to keep other people - friends, relatives, grown-up children - feeling inadequate. And it can be totally invisible to the one who's doing it, or even a mutual activity, but in the end it gets grinding on any relation.

I don't care for Brutal Honesty either. But thats not what I'm talking about or was referring to when I started this thread. I was talking about what good do lies and secrets do on an intimate level? Breaking Agreements. That kind of thing.

Thinking though...it is also an excercise of Power to lie and hide it. Or is that just manipulation looking bigger?

Personally I'd rather know that the "shoes and shirt" dont look well on me. I can Always change if I know that. But thats me...everyone is different.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[sidhewolf]

I'll keep my two cents on this short & sweet.

If you tell the truth you never have to worry about what you told to whom & when... you never get caught in a compromising position... and above all, you never lose your integrity...

"A lie gets around the world before the truth even has time to put it's pants on." -unknown

Very True! I always figured lying was harder. And I've seen the damage it causes. I tried to do it a bit as a kid, and could never pull it off without busting out giggling Knowing what I was trying to say was crap lol. OTOH I could sell a box of cookies to PPL I didn't know on the street with any tall tale behind it, just to get the sale.

On a personal level I never lie...about anything. But selling a box of cookies to a stranger, it isn't like I have to remember what I said to sell the cookies, and probably wouldn't be able to since it probably wasn't the Truth.

I guess I've got half the battle won in a sense, since I don't lie on a personal level? But it's the lies of someone close to me that hurts me now....not my own.

Respectfully~SidheWolf