Where have all the reviewers gone

[Pooka]

Originally posted by Chum
[B]

I suspect most people who read this forum, and often this includes me, are looking for a story with high erotic intensity. I'm sure I've given up on some good stories just because I wasn't in the mood to engross myself in understanding who the people were, even though I know this would enhance the reading experience.

Hi Chum,

Yes, I agree. Sometimes I'm in one mood, sometimes in another. The stories most interesting to me though are ones that have a slow build up. My husband is very good at verbal story telling, but finds it frustrating because unless I'm gagged, I'll question 'why' about everything. LOL!

For some reason, unless there's a believable (even if fantasy) background for what is about to occur, I don't get very aroused by the story. I need to know the type of society the story takes place in, what is accepted in that society, how the people view it, why the 'villian' would choose a particular woman, and so on down the line. All that is important to me for some reason.

I know this isn't true for other readers or writers, but it is to me.

When I was editing my last story, "Dare to grow," it occurred to me that most people who opened the story would fall out in the first couple of pages, and few would probably make it to the end. But sometimes a story just won't come together in a way that appeals to everyone.

Exactly so. There's a niche for everyone and I know my stories won't appeal to a lot of people, I wrote for those looking for the same elements I enjoy and I write for myself. LOL! Writers sure are ego driven, eh? The stories I tend to like are rare, which is what prompted me to write my own.

I admire authors who can publish without feedback or interaction with others, but I'm not one of them.

LOL! Working in a vacuum is difficult and if no one makes any indication one way or the other it makes you wonder why you bother at all. Of course, there is some small solace in just writing for your own enjoyment, but it sure does wear thin pretty quick especially considering the effort it can take to get it all down in readable format too!

I always have at least an audience of one so I don't feel too bad. My husband loves my twisted mind and I love his so we manage to keep each other entertained.

Pooka

[Flavius]

Hey all I am really sorry I have enjoyed many stories on the site but am ashamed to say have never reviewed one. This is because though having enjoyed the story I would not feel that I am qualified to pass judgement/comment or even be critical of any of the work which individuals strive to produce for the delight and entertainment of others. As a consumer I am wholly gratefull to those of us who have the creative spark which enables them to put together works for our benefit.
Flavius

[Marcus]

Welcome to the forum, Flavius.

Hey all I am really sorry I have enjoyed many stories on the site but am ashamed to say have never reviewed one. This is because though having enjoyed the story I would not feel that I am qualified to pass judgement/comment or even be critical of any of the work which individuals strive to produce for the delight and entertainment of others.

You are quite right to be ashamed! Most writers are glad just to have a simple "Enjoyed it" review. Don't worry about making critical reviews, just comment on the ones you like.

Reading the other reviews you'll soon discover that making critical reviews is a vocation in itself. Sometimes these reviews are better than the stories.

If you get the inclination to write a paragraph-long review, you'll most likely make a writer's day!

[Flavius]

Awe dog gone it I will make it a point in future to make some effort let authors know there work is appreciated or not as the case maybe.
regards
Flavuis

[Parker]

From experience, I can tell you that there is nothing more encouraging to an author to receive feedback, both positive and negative. That was one of the things that (a) kept me writing as long as I did and (b) dictated the types of stories I would write.

So, if you come across an author you want to encourage, I highly recommend that you send along some comments. Not only will this repay the author for taking the time to write the story, but it will often have the effect of "inspiring" the author to write more.

[VladPotemkin]

It is sad to see less than one review per 1000 downloads, but I can understand it given the audience.

I have looked extensively at possible publishing models, and there are a few techniques that might work at BDSMLibrary. One is to reward prolific reviewers with privileges on the web site, for example give them some 'n' number of membership months. To make sure the reviews are of reasonable quality, you can have a grading function like Amazon (3 out of 5 readers found this helpful) or simply correlate a reviewers score with the median score.

You could also make grading a work really easy, like at Netflix.com where simply clicking on 1-5 stars automatically adds that scoring to the overall scoring. Many people don't want to go through the full review form while they might simply click a 1-5 (or 1-10) star rating. Some safeguards might make sense to prevent fake votes. There might even be two types of ratings: one by reviewers who are going for incentives and one by general readers who only want to spend a clicks worth of time.

The failed iPublish.com experiment required authors who submitted a work to review at least 3 other works. But requiring reviews leads to another problem. Erotica is an extremely personal experience with amazingly diverse "hot buttons" for readers. What is someone's perfect fantasy might be another person's worst reading experience. I would hate to see a story downgraded because the reviewer didn't find the fetish up their alley even though the technical aspects rocked.

As an aside, I really appreciate reviewers like hypen666 who comment on dozens of works. He's a statistical anomaly. You could do a sweepstakes with each review getting an entry.

[Marcus]

One thing that writers soon discover is that it is a 'two-way street'. Why write another 10,000 finely crafted words if nobody bothered to tell you they enjoyed the previous story? It may not be art but somebody is likely to have spent many hours or days writing the story, even if the grammar and spelling are not so good in some cases. (This is something I try to bear in mind before being too critical).

Flavius, we're looking forward to seeing your reviews (now I've made you feel suitably ashamed ;-) )

Vlad, You raise some good points about other sites. I also enjoy reviews on other sites such as amazon.com and the wonderful IMDB.com (where I review regularly). However, my conclusion is that the review rate is not much different at amazon compared to BDSMLibrary (maybe even lower). It's impossible to quantify at IMDB as they don't actually sell the movies!


Perhaps Jinn could let us know whether the number of reviews has gone up since this topic started. My feeling is that it has.

I think the programming of the site is fine. A link to review and another to email the author at the beginning and end of each story. What could be easier? The important thing is to keep hounding and cajoling the readers into making reviews and sending emails to authors. That's what keeps authors writing!

Maybe if we said enough nice things to him we could even get Parker to write another story for the site ;-)

[Tiger]

Marcus was right about the review numbers: There were 243 reviews in Aug., while there were only 138 reviews in July. It's nice to see people start to not only read but also participate.

I don't know if this is true or not, seems the authors get more emails than reviews. Is that correct? I need you authors' opinion about this. Could that be because readers are afraid that authors may not be able to aware his/her reviews on this site. So they would rather send emails. One thing to fix that is setup an email notification so that authors get an email whenever one of his stories has a new review, and tell readers/reviewers that the author will know about his/her review. How about that?

[S_Couture]

Good idea Jinn. I for one didn't know there were reviews until just last month. Granted, I'm not the most computer savvy, but they aren't the easiest thing to get to.

[Chum]

My three stories on the site are about a breakeven between reviews and e-mails. One story had no reviews, one had two, and one has had four, I have received a total of 8 e-mails, one of which simply let me know that the sender had posted a review of my story, while another one was a request to post my last story to another web site.

It was gratifying to receive complements, but I especially appreciated the two reviewers who made constructive criticisms. Without the benefit of such feedback, there is a large element of stumbling in the dark, at least for me.

Chum

[LadyLibra]

I read all of the stories off line, then checking out other stories by the author 's & the new stories list. I'm also hooked on the random story. SO Thank You for With out you the AUTHORS, lets not even think about it!!!
If there was an easy way to prepost review & then just click.(I havent tried the copy & paste i may try it next time) I enjoy this site so much i really dont like to ask for more.
PS i didnt use spell check so im sorry in advance.

[Tiger]

I have made some changes in the review function so that the authors will get an email notification whenever a new review is posted for his/her story. The authors will not get the email for review editing.

If you find anything wrong with the email, please let me know. If you don't want to receive this kind of email, please let me know and I will remove you from the notification system.

Jinn

[boccaccio2000g]

Vlad wrote -- It is sad to see less than one review per 1000 downloads, but I can understand it given the audience.
------------------------------------
One also has to be careful what one wishes for.

I've been kind of lamenting (occasionally in public here, but mostly to myself) the lack of reviews; up until a day or two ago I was running about 1 review for every 8,000 clicks. Five reviews out of 42,000 clicks on 3 stories, one of them multi-part.

Thanks to Jinn's new program, I noticed in my e-mail this morning that somebody had reviewed one of my stories (Jade Pavilion I) -- only its second review --.

I was quite elated -- that story hadn't been reviewed since its first few days of publication about four months ago-- and hurriedly click-click-clicked to access the review, wondering breathlessly if the reviewer enjoyed the setting, the characterization, or just, perhaps, the "thrill scenes" (Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.)

A few clicks later I opened the review to find a big fat 4. :-)

"I had a hard time getting past the first couple of paragraphs. To {sic} much bouncing from one subject to another. Hard to keep focused on the story line. Couldn't finish it because it was boring."

And I had been 'this' close to a Pulitzer. lol


My incipient paranoia - which is never far from the surface - made me wonder if Marcus might not have been right a few weeks ago. Perhaps it might not be a good idea to write and review under the same name; I had dished out a number of low scores of my own. Was this retaliation from a disappointed author? (operating under another name, of course)

Or was it just an honest reaction from someone who had some(hopefully momentary) difficulty spelling (or in fairness, perhaps typing) three-letter words and is not enamoured with that most intricate and complicated literary concept, the flashback? Alas, I shall probably never know.


Curiously, I happened to 'mention' regretfully to one person who is known to frequent this den of iniquity that I had gotten a bummer review; perhaps not so coincidentally a personage calling himself 'seeJeffgo' became a new member later in the day and wrote a nice review of that same story (which, remember, hadn't been reviewed in months).

"Jeff" - if you're the person I 'spoke' to about the lousy review -- thank you for trying to cheer me up, but you didn't need to do that.

And if you're not the person I 'spoke' to, thanks for cheering me up!

Which once again is testimony to the consoling power of a nice review or an e-mail to us ink-stained wretches.

Thanks to all who've taken the time to read the stories, even those 'who couldn't finish because it was boring';

And a special thanks to those who've gone to the trouble of reviewing them or dropping me a line.

Boccaccio

[boccaccio2000g]

Originally posted by Parker
From experience, I can tell you that there is nothing more encouraging to an author to receive feedback, both positive and negative. That was one of the things that (a) kept me writing as long as I did and (b) dictated the types of stories I would write.

So, if you come across an author you want to encourage, I highly recommend that you send along some comments. Not only will this repay the author for taking the time to write the story, but it will often have the effect of "inspiring" the author to write more.

===================
I read your final story not long ago and recommend it very highly to everyone (except for the reviewer who got confused about the way Jade Pavilion I jumped around --he'd REALLY be confused by 'your' story. <g>

You apparently wrote that story knowing that it would be your swan song. It's none of my/our business, but if you feel like talking about it, why did you hang it up? Any regrets? Have you ever considered taking pen (OK, keyboard) in hand again?

My compliments to one of the best,

Boccaccio

[boccaccio2000g]

Pooka wrote:

That raises an interesting issue, that of our obligation to both readers and other writers. However, I would find it hard to objectively review a story if the story is not one I find interesting. If anything, let the reviewers each focus on the kinds of stories they like, by genre or story code. I could never rate a snuff story highly no matter how well it was written. The subject is totally non-erotic to me and I could not give a balanced review.

============================================
I understand your point and agree with it to some degree, but once you have started the story and have decided to at least read a significant amount of it, I think it is appropriate to review it.

A restaurant critic should be able to review Greek food, for example, fairly, even if he or she doesn't particularly care for it. A film critic ought to be able to review "Ten", "The Ten Commandments" and "Ten Little Indians" even though it is unlikely that he would appreciate each of those three genres to the same degree. And we experts in erotica (aren't we? <g>) should be able to separate the "writing" of a story from the "subject matter";

(That's not to say that the personal erotic thrill felt by the reviewer of a story should have no bearing on a review; it's certainly a factor. But the quality of the writing should be an important factor, too).

I opened and, somewhat to my surprise, kept reading a very-well written story here that involved bestiality a few weeks ago. Not my kink at all -- but is my kink better than that author's? The setting and the characters were really well done; I gave the story a nice review even though it wasn't erotic to my taste at all.

Snuff stories are very sensitive to some; and I certainly don't search them out. But the death of a character should not in and of itself be opprobrious, I don't think, in a proper setting. A story of a thrill killing utterly without literary value is another matter, of course; that's what the reviews should do -- make distinctions between the two for the potential reader's benefit.

The stories that disappoint me most are the ones whose codes suggest that the story IS in line with my tastes -- in terms of M/F, degree of violence, degree of consensuality, etc -- but still leave me uninvolved because they're poorly done.


Boccaccio

PS Is it "Pooka" as in the Jimmy Stewart film, "Harvey"?

(Harvey was a "pooka" or "pookah" a giant white rabbit (unseen by all but Stewart) who served as something of a benign guardian spirit over the eccentric character played by Stewart, offering timely advice now and then.

[Marcus]

A few clicks later I opened the review to find a big fat 4. :-)

Yuk! It's a good job we writers don't take this kind of thing personally isn't it?

If there is one thing worse than being talked about, it is NOT being talked about. (Oscar Wilde)

The same applies to the stories. I'd rather receive negative comments and/or low ratings than absolutely nothing. Many of the regular authors habitually receive negative reviews/low ratings but they still keep posting new stories. Maybe it spurs them on, trying/hoping for better next time. I admire their persistance if not always their product!

Boccaccio: My incipient paranoia - which is never far from the surface - made me wonder if Marcus might not have been right a few weeks ago. Perhaps it might not be a good idea to write and review under the same name; I had dished out a number of low scores of my own. Was this retaliation from a disappointed author? (operating under another name, of course)

You doubted me?? When an author writes reviews under the same name I feel it is only a matter of time before a tit-for-tat review is posted. Human nature!

I maintain a separate name each for reviews, forums and forum posting. That way I can write objective reviews without their being referenced to my forum posts. It also enables me to give credit where due to stories written by forum members without a sense of mutual 'back scratching'. Believe me, I don't always give great reviews although I hope they are constructive.

[veru_skjava]

hello to all who have provided excellent dialogue in this thread.

I know for me, it was very hard to write reviews initially. I worried about not being able to meet the same apparent degree of literary insight that I have read from other reviewers.

I read a post on these forums at one point and realized the importance of providing my own personal insight.

After taking the iniitial risk in reviewing, it has become my practice to review any story i read.

I have enjoyed reading this thread, excellent points have been discussed.

looking forward to continued reading here in the forums...

veru skjava

[boccaccio2000g]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by veru_skjava
[B]


hello to all who have provided excellent dialogue in this thread.

## And you, too, Marcus! ;-)

I know for me, it was very hard to write reviews initially. I worried about not being able to meet the same apparent degree of literary insight that I have read from other reviewers.

## If I may borrow a line from Marcus' Twain, "It is difference of opinion that makes horse races." That's what fora like these are for.

I read a post on these forums at one point and realized the importance of providing my own personal insight.

After taking the initial risk in reviewing, it has become my practice to review any story i read.

## A commendable practice to which I have adhered since we began this thread several weeks ago (except for a period when I was plagued by technical difficulties) and which I recommend to all of the authors, in particular. If the authors alone were to review every story we read, I think our brethren and sistren would be swimming in reviews.



I have enjoyed reading this thread, excellent points have been discussed.

looking forward to continued reading here in the forums...

## I am not sure if we are permitted or encouraged to review avatars, but may I be among the first to give yours a ten? I have studied it carefully, and find it above reproach

Boccaccio

[veru_skjava]

thank you Sir, I kinda like it myself. My Master/Owner loves it.

proud smile

veru skjava

[Marcus]

I've just read Boccaccio's review of Jessica Verdi's 'Plumbers Revenge. Hilarious!! Let's hope she has a sense of humour.

Now we need a rating system for the reviews!!!

http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/stories/r...p?storyid=1071

[boccaccio2000g]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Marcus
[B]I've just read Boccaccio's review of Jessica Verdi's 'Plumbers Revenge. Hilarious!! Let's hope she has a sense of humour.

I'm hopeful that in the next chapter the plumbing protagonist will tie the fetching heroine in the arousing and inescapable 'lead pipe cinch' and gently torment her with his snake until she is flushed with desire and completely drained sexually.


I'm also hopeful that Ms Verdi herself won't mind the tenor of my review.


But I must confess that it would be im-pasta-ble for a Boccaccio not to be smitten by an authoress with such an inspired name.

What fourteenth century Florentine teller of ribald tales wouldn't look con amore on a woman who shares her first name with one of the heroines of "The Merchant of Venice" and her surname with Italia's greatest composer, that smooth opera-tor, Giuseppe Verdi.

O patria mia! Viva Verdi!

I see signorina Verdi as a dark-eyed Italian temptress, a slave to the fires burning in her erogenous calzone, wearing only a wisp of black silk and an enigmatic smile which suggests, in the words of our great poet,

"Lasciate ogni speranza voi ch'entrate." *


Boccaccio



*"Abandon all hope, ye who enter here"

[BDSM_Tourguide]

I just checked one the stats for my new story and I was kind of disappointed when I saw that there had been over 7200 readers, but not one single review.

You know? It's not that I'm looking for high praise or anything, but I would like to know how I'm doing. Maybe people are just waiting for me to write more before they commit to reviewing it.

Still, I would like to see the review the story step of the reading process become a little more proactive. Maybe give the readers an annoying pop-up window that says review this story now in big letters at the top. Well, maybe not that proactive, but something.

Or maybe I'm just ranting and need to relax and just let people enjoy or not enjoy what I write, right?

[Marcus]

Congratulations on receiving your two reviews, albeit from regular reviewers. Hopefully you've had some emails as well.

It seems like a 'hardcore' of reviewers (maybe 20!) are providing the bulk of the reviews while the vast majority (99+%) continue to stay silently consuming both the stories and the reviews.

So, come on all you 'lurkers', write a nice review and make a writer's day!

[veru_skjava]

Hello again,

I have a question for the regular reviewers. When you read and reveiw, do you go back to your reviews after updates?

I am following with great interest Raiders Dungeon, and though rarely do I reply to a review, I did here.

Boccacio gave some excellent feedback to the story, and the author took note.

I am just curious, as to wether revisions to previous reviews are common practice.

Thanks everyone

veru skjava

[BDSM_Tourguide]

I can't think of a specific instance where I have reviewed a story that was episodic, except for Tracy in Trouble and I reviewed that one after about the 29th update.

However, if I did read a story that improved over time, I would definitely write a re-review and change my initial rating, if possible.

[Moggy]

I have a question for the regular reviewers. When you read and reveiw, do you go back to your reviews after updates?

That's a good point. I would gladly revise a review on an incomplete story. There are a few that come to mind already.

I always try to give a fair assessment of a story, but I prefer to give an instinctive mark for how much I enjoyed the story, rather than making an academic judgement.

Sometimes, I feel guilty that I haven't graded a story as high as the author would hope for, particularly where mine is the only review for the story. But it's the responsibility of other readers to register their viewpoints also.

A story's worth can not and should not be measured by only one person's opinion.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

... but it seems the reader/reviewer ratio is somewhere around 8000:1, so getting more reviews is harder than it looks.

[boccaccio2000g]

Originally posted by veru_skjava
Hello again,

I have a question for the regular reviewers. When you read and reveiw, do you go back to your reviews after updates?

I am following with great interest Raiders Dungeon, and though rarely do I reply to a review, I did here.

Boccacio gave some excellent feedback to the story, and the author took note.

I am just curious, as to wether revisions to previous reviews are common practice.

Thanks everyone

veru skjava

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Veru raises a good question. There are two problems.

I see now that at some point Veru appended a comment on the Review page to my review of "Raiders" noting that a 'flaw' (IMO)that I had mentioned had been corrected. But unfortunately, I had no idea that her comment had been posted or that the 'flaw' had been addressed. I'm not really asking for this, at this point, Jinn, but is it feasible that an e-mail could be sent to reviewers indicating that a comment had been appended to a review? Don't do it (yet) -- I'm just asking the question.

The second problem is that if a story is in installments and I read the first installment or two and give it less than an excellent score/review, the chances are that I may never come back to it to see if the problems (as I saw them) have been addressed. There are only so many hours in the day, and there is a constant flow of new stories. So, to answer your question, Veru, I don't believe that I have had occasion to change the score of a review that I have written. But now that you have called my attention to the 'improvements', I'll try to revisit the story in question.

My experience, in terms of not revisiting many of the installments I have reviewed, may not be typical. But surely, if others are doing similarly, it provides all the more incentive, fellow writers, to make that first installment as polished and entertaining as you possibly can -- some readers may not have time to give it a second chance. Although I think that most readers, including me, would give a new story by that same author a second chance.

I would like to second Moggy's comment that one should not normally pre-judge a story based on one person's opinion (unless you have found that your tastes coincide very closely with those of the reviewer in question). And that is why we'd both like to see more people get involved in the process; if you do, you'll find, I think, that you begin to read other people's reviews with almost as much interest as you read the stories.

Boccaccio

[Curtis]

Granted I am the most computerly inept person you are ever likely to meet (just ask Jinn), but I have one answer to the question "Why do people send e-mails to authors, but they won't review?" I have been on this site as a reader for about ten months now, but readers are not allowed to review. They ARE, however, allowed to write e-mails, which I have done to some twenty of the authors on this site. Only a 'user' may write a review, but nowhere could I find an explanation of how to become a 'user'! I hate being a bother, but eventually I broke down and asked Jinn how to become a 'user' and, of course, nothing could be simpler ONCE YOU KNOW HOW. The trick is finding out how. I would like to suggest that the information on how to become a 'user' be placed in the description of 'user' priviledges, just as the information on how to become a 'member' is included in the description of 'member' priviledges.

As an aside, I had to laugh at the comment someone made about writing under a female pseudonym to get a larger response. I have written to twelve 'female' writers at this site and gotten responses back from nine of them. Only three of the nine 'male' authors I have written to have responded. The 'females' may have a different take on why they get a better response, but my view is, they're getting back because they're willing to 'put out' for their fans and the 'males' are not.

Last point this post: I recognize the validity of what some of you have said about reviewers who give balanced reviews being a more valuable resource than reviewers (like myself) who only give 'good' reviews. My hat is off to the 'users' who take their reviewing responsibilities more seriously than I do, and I hope they die in bed with smiles on their faces. My position is that my life is too short to waste it writing a review of a story I didn't like. Objectivity is not my strong suit and I am incapable of writing a constructive review of a story that bored (or nauseated) me. Since I don't get my jollies from offending people, I abide by the "If you can't say something nice..." adage and pass quietly along to the next story. Those lucky(?) authors who have been recipients of my e-mails know that I usually include some criticism in my fan letters, but if the story isn't at least a '6', it isn't worth my effort.

I shall now step back from the pulpit...

[BDSM_Tourguide]

... even just as a regular viewer, I think.

It's been so long ago, I don't actually remember.

I do know that when you download a story there are links on the story page itself to both review and write the author an email. Unless that's changed in the last three or four days.