Advice or comments please

[Trinity96]

Hello

I have recently joined this site and have found it and everyone really cool and respectful and helpful, so could do with some words of experience and advice.

I am a sub and am in a vanilla marriage. There is absolutely no way my hubbie would ever consider being a dom or is interested in this life. I have no intention of splitting with him, he is an amazing husband and father.

I think about being a sub every day and play out fantasy's constantly, at work, home, driving. I have been on line and have performed on cam and loved it. I have never felt I am being unfaithful as have not had real life experience yet. I am so desperate to meet a dom who would control me and would feed my desires.

Is there anyone who has been or is in a similar position?

Can the 2 worlds coexist without the other knowing? Is it being unfaithful?

[SilvieA]

Yeah, actually, my uncle was in a similar position. And when my aunt found out she was devastated... I sympathize, but if you love your husband then you need to talk to him about what's going on. Honesty and clear communication are after all some, if not the most, important hallmarks of a healthy relationship.
If you cheat, then of course you're being unfaithful... I consider on-line play cheating, at least emotional cheating. And having sex with another guy... well that would definitely be cheating; unless your husband knows and is ok with it.
There is a possiblity here that you simply can't have both your husband and a bdsm relationship. In that case you need to chose. Honestly, not telling him and going behind his back is an extremely selfish thing to do... after all, this is his life too, and he's committing it to you. I sympathize with you, but I have to say, your husband is more the victim in this scenario than you are. You owe it to your spouse not to abuse his trust in you.

[Ragoczy]

You're in a very difficult situation and I truly feel for you, but, ultimately, my opinion on whether it's being unfaithful won't help you, because it doesn't matter. The opinion of everyone on this site doesn't matter -- even if they all agreed. Frankly, whether you, yourself, think it's being unfaithful or not ... doesn't matter.

What matters is what your husband will think when he finds out.

All that matters to that question is his answer, because he's the one who's going to have to deal with it and choose a response. If he thinks it's being unfaithful, then that's how he's going to react.

Even if you can 100% guarantee it will be kept a secret and he'll never find out, it's still his opinion that matters. If he could guarantee that you'd never find out, would it be okay with you for him to go have sex with some 18-year old? Or would that be a betrayal of your trust?

Sure, he's probably never explicitly said that he trusts you not to have an online relationship with a dominant, but should he have to or is it implied?

I know that's not the answer you're looking for, and I'm truly sorry. You want to be told it can be kept secret; it's not being unfaithful; it's okay, as long as he never finds out; that it's your needs that matter most. And I'm sure there are any number of others who'll disagree with me and tell you that.

And, again, none of that matters. What matters is:

How will he feel when he finds out and are you willing to do that to him?

[In2kink]

Trinty96,

As someone with a good deal of experience in the lifestyle my own views about what others choose to do is tempered by the fact that I do not make value judgments. This is because my own experiences have greatly expanded my sense of what is right or wrong when it comes to expressing sexuality. So I won’t express an opinion about whether you playing online or even offline for that matter would be regarding as “cheating”. The lifestyle is not really about sexual, even though sexual expression and exploration is a part of it.

That being said, I do of course sympathize with your situation. I know that many people come to learn about and become interested in the lifestyle after they have already married or become partnered in a committed vanilla relationship with someone who has no interest in being involved in D/s. Once a person becomes interested in exploring this, they often become aware that it isn’t just a want but a real need to express themselves in a power exchange environment. The fact that they are in a good vanilla relationship that they don’t wish to compromise really makes their situation complicated.

As a Dom, I might consider a relationship with a female submissive that was in your situation but only if she were willing to be open about it with her vanilla partner. This is because of several reasons. I think she would feel better about it without having to struggle with the very issue you raised. You shouldn’t have to feel you are cheating. If you know you have this need and your husband can’t or isn’t interested in meeting it, then I would just be open with him and explain that this something you “need” to feel fulfilled. I don’t feel that you need his permission, but you do I think need to tell him about your needs. To what degree you choose to share with him exactly what you will be doing is up to you and up to how much you believe he could feel comfortable knowing about. I know this is not easy because it is pretty easy to imagine that many men would not at all be comfortable with the idea and might feel jealous. But as Ragoczy pointed out, the issue is not only about how you feel but how your husband would feel if you didn’t discuss this with him and somehow he found out you were engaging in online play with someone else. That could be very damaging to a relationship that you clearly want to continue. Once you have been open and honest with him, I think you have fulfilled your responsibility and then you are free to choose what you will do.

Given your situation, I think if you decide to have your needs fulfilled online you might consider just casual play rather than forming a relationship with one Dom. You have to consider that even online, real feelings are likely to develop and that could further complicate things for you. I have also known many people who started out believing that they could be satisfied with online D/s but the more they learned and explored, the more they found themselves wanting to experience it in real life. Should you develop those feelings, I’m sure it would be even less likely your husband would consent to that and it really could compromise your relationship with him.

I’m sure I have not really answered your question and likely have only given you more to think about, but this is a serious issue, and ultimately only you can decide what is right or wrong for you.

In2kink

[love2serve]

Trinity, i feel for you as i am in somewhat the same situation. My husband is wonderful but not into bondage or submissiveness in anyway. So i joined this site, made lots of friends and as you have, acted out my fantasies online. I felt very guilty about this and one night, after a fair amount of wine, i came clean - starting with the stories i have written and posted on another site. When he had read some of them he was thrilled, and surprised. His 'wife' was someone in her own right, a horny, sexy open minded woman someone who had been forgotten during 20 years of marriage and four children! I then came clean about the chat sessions on here and that i talk to people regularly on YIM - he is absolutely fine about it and even finds it a turn-on. We now have an even better sex-life (albeit mostly vanilla) but he wants to please me and has even tried a little bondage and spanked me recently too so there is light at the end the tunnel. You know your own husband, is he quite an open minded person where sex is concerned but just doesnt feel like he is a dom? if u feel that he would react in a similar way then take the plunge - it may help u both to understand each other better and also make you feel better about the situation - no-one likes to lie to a loved one and should he find out without you being honest he may feel like he has been treated badly. I can only tell you how spilling the beans has helped me - it may not be the best thing for you, only you can decide that, but men are complex and you should wait for the right time.

Sorry to ramble on, but wanted you to know you are not the only one who is or has been in this position. If you ever want to talk message me on here or come onto YIM, i will be happy to listen.

xx love2serve

[Ozme52]

However....

This is a common situation and there are loads and loads of opinions strewn throughout the forum... from on how to broach the subject with a vanilla partner, to the futility of trying to change a vanilla partner. From what's cheating to what's polyamory. From online to real life.

So I suggest you do a lot of reading and then ask questions of the individuals whose opinions you find most aligned with your needs. There is no one answer...

[annie]

I would agree with Oz on this one. The "opinions" are rampant here going in all directions. But, ultimately that is all they are... opinions. And no one is in your exact situation or has your experiences. I could give pros and cons of each of the examples all ready given but bottom line, you know your husband so YOU have to look at your own unique set of pro's and con's and decide what will work for you, him, your kids, and your life in general.

It won't be easy by any means but.. that is my advice.

[cadence]

As a few others have stated to you in this post, only you can decide what is best for you.

A question such as yours will have many different opinions, some which will give you hope, some which will alleviate your worries, and others which won't make you feel very good as a person.
Just remember don't take the opionions you don't like and disregard them, don't take them personally either, everyone is entitled to have thier say. Don't take the ones you do like and use them as a guideline.
Weigh your options carefully, take in everyone's advice and try to see how you can best sort out your own situation.


I am in agreement with Ozme that you read and ask questions of others who have been in your shoes and hopefully you will be able to extract some helpful advice to your problem.
As well I fully agree with In2Kink, don't go out and find a Dominant right away, take your time to figure out what is best for you before you dwelve into deeper waters.

As for me, I have been in your situation and I still am to a certain degree.
My boyfriend will never share in this lifestyle with me, nor does he care to understand it.
When I first discovered my submissive side I was secretive about it. I played on cam and was on the fence really about whether or not it was cheating.
I eventually told my boyfriend about this site, but he was not really enthused.
We both discussed my submission and my need for kink. He ended up trying to appease me, but we stopped because he did not really enjoy it and was only doing it to try and make me happy.

Even though I have quite a bit of privacy, my boyfriend still knew that I was playing on line, and talking to others. I had a cam and he knew I wasn't just talking to my friends. I also looked guilty half of the time when he came home early and I barely finished cleaning up from what I was doing.
I eventually showed him my toys, so that he wouldn't find them and start asking a lot of questions.

He and I haven't talked extensively, however we have both come to an agreement with things.
I can do what I want, I can be owned on line, as long as I don't do it in front of him.

I now have an issue of wanting to have a real time relationship, because I would like more now.
I will more than likely be able to do that, but I would prefer to discuss this before I go ahead and do it.

If you would like to talk you can PM me or add me to messenger. I don't know if I can give you the advice you need, but I am able to relate to your situation at least.

[jeanne]

I have been in your situation. Here are the pitfalls as they occurred for me. First, I formed a very close, intense attachment to my Dom. I realized pretty quickly that all those little things over the years that I'd told myself I didn't need...I needed them. Being liked and enjoyed just as I am. Being told once in a while that I'm beautiful - other than hearing once a year "you look nice". (Gee, thanks.) Feeling appreciated. As a result, I told my husband I wanted a divorce. Commence the mayhem. Suicide threats...emotional blackmail...all of it. Then, he found about about my Dom (all my fault - I was careless). Now it wasn't mayhem...it became sheer freakin' insanity. Every threat he could think of. Constant need for me to 'try again'...all under his terms. I ended things with my Dom (biggest mistake of my life) and made the effort. It didn't work out. I won't go into the gory details...but my mild-mannered, laid-back husband has been insane ever since.

Don't put yourself through that...and if you do, make DAMN SURE your husband will never, ever find out. No one can know what another person will do under certain circumstances.

[DowntownAmber]

Hello

I have recently joined this site and have found it and everyone really cool and respectful and helpful, so could do with some words of experience and advice.

I am a sub and am in a vanilla marriage. There is absolutely no way my hubbie would ever consider being a dom or is interested in this life. I have no intention of splitting with him, he is an amazing husband and father.

I think about being a sub every day and play out fantasy's constantly, at work, home, driving. I have been on line and have performed on cam and loved it. I have never felt I am being unfaithful as have not had real life experience yet. I am so desperate to meet a dom who would control me and would feed my desires.

Is there anyone who has been or is in a similar position?

Can the 2 worlds coexist without the other knowing? Is it being unfaithful?

Yes, the two worlds can. It is possible. But note I say "possible," not "likely." It's awfully bold and reckless to assume that a spouse is not going to find out about something like an online relationship or real life affair.

"Unfaithful," as I think many of the above posts have pointed out, is a matter of opinion.

All that being said, in actual application the technicalities, definitions, and semantics are of little consequence. There have been plenty of times in my life life that I have been utterly impeccable in my actions according to the letter of the law, but I have blown the spirit of it straight to Hell and people I care about have been injured. Sure, I could argue out the rationale of my actions, but at the end of the day all I had was textbook defined self-righteousness and a lover with a broken heart.

The point is simply: assume that he will find out and go forward with that likelihood in the forefront of your thinking. Maybe not tomorrow, but eventually he'll figure it out. To move forward basing your decisions on hoping that he won't is reckless, especially considering the gravity of the situation (i.e. kids and a marriage to consider). When he does find out, your definition of cheating won't make any difference at all to how he feels. If he feels violated and wronged, the fact that you operated within the technicalities of your definitions aren't going to make him feel any better - are you going to be prepared to deal with that?

You know this man better than any of us do, and if you think that he would be understanding then maybe this is worth the risk. If you suppose this is a deal breaker for him but your need for this is more important than the relationship, again, maybe it's worth the risk. You're going to have to sit down and weigh out the importance of each part of your life.

Good luck, my hope for you is that this is something that can be negotiated with your husband. A pipe dream in some cases, I know, but sometimes letting your significant other in on the fact that you want to be with them but need other things is enough to encourage them to be brave enough to support (or at least condone) your journey.Again, good luck.

[shyslut]

I too have submissive needs that will not be denied. I have been married going on 9 years. My husband wants absolutely nothing to do with bdsm. However he understands my need of it as well as understanding that I do need more guidance and attention than he is able to give me working so much and playing almost 40 hours a week of WoW.

I talked to him about it before I ever took a first step. He said yes I could look for a dom but he was to be a mentor dom not a "master" dom. He wanted someone who was older/mature. I was to be trustworthy and honest with both of them and anytime he asked I was to share convos, emails and events with him. He has met and hung out with dom.

Before I started this he had a huge list of requirements I needed to meet to make him comfortable. Some I alluded to above but also including such things as no bdsm activity on hubbys time. This means his day offs, his evenings, when we have things planned or otherwise when he needs my time. Also limits on the types of activity I can participate in. Like no vaginal sex, safe sex otherwise at all times, no leaving of bruises etc. etc.

Course things have turned out to be pretty flexible as well. Hubby was sick and could not have sex for awhile so I was allowed one session of vaginal intercourse with dom. He also allowed me to meet on one of his day offs. Course its gone the other way as well. Hes said hey i want you to stay home just because no reason do not meet with dom. As well as dom saying hey i need to hang out with you guys hubby needs to take a personal day from work and he did.

My dom is 65 yrs old so def mature. He holds workshops about techniques and has a busy life so he had no problem being a mentor dom vs a master one. I am very lucky my husband is caring and easy to communicate with person as well as him being very secure in himself. Im just very very lucky so I hope you can be too!! <3

[yummysubmummy]

Hello Trinity96, welcome to the site.

So many people have given you such excellent points of view that I don't want to say too much more. However, I do want to ask if you know for sure that hubby would not consider anything in this life. I have always had submissive tendencies before I even knew there was a word for it or that there were other people like me, but I met my husband when I was 16 and married by the time I was 22. I thought that he would never consider anything remotely related to BDSM (a sweet gentle guy like him!) and so I satisfied myself with fantasies and reading fiction (no webcams or online play though - couldn't if I wanted to - I am a computer ignoramus!). It wasn't until a couple of years ago when he was away on a business trip that he asked me on IM what I was doing on the computer and I gave him the link to a story (with BDSM elements) I was reading that we started discussing this topic and exploring BDSM in real life ourselves. We are still very much newbies and to be honest I am not sure if he is really into it as I am - but we will keep talking it through. I am quite sad that I wasted nearly 10 years by not communicating earlier what my needs/desires were!

So please have a chat with the husband if you haven't already and be sure that you aren't looking elsewhere for something that you already have at home. Best wishes

[Stone]

The age old question is cyber cheating.......well that is hard to say it may not be cheating physically but it is a relationship of a sort,,,the question i would ask if it is not cheating why would it need to be hidden? if you cant do it out in the open and have to keep it hidden from your partner speaks volumes...cybering is becoming more common as grounds for divorces so some think it is cheating some do not.....i would say it depends on the people involved

[Ozme52]

My problem with the concept of cyber being cheating is it implies neither partner can have separate friends of their own... and certainly not friends of the opposite gender. Because 'thinking" and "flirting" about someone else in real life is no less a fantasy than doing so online. More in fact...

And if it is cheating, then the old argument that reading men's magazine is also cheating. Looking at another woman in sexy clothing on the street is cheating.

I know a lot of people will say it's not the same... but I suggest it's just a matter of degree.

[DowntownAmber]

My problem with the concept of cyber being cheating is it implies neither partner can have separate friends of their own... and certainly not friends of the opposite gender. Because 'thinking" and "flirting" about someone else in real life is no less a fantasy than doing so online. More in fact...

And if it is cheating, then the old argument that reading men's magazine is also cheating. Looking at another woman in sexy clothing on the street is cheating.

I know a lot of people will say it's not the same... but I suggest it's just a matter of degree.

I guess I have come to the point where whether or not something can be defined as cheating is of very little consequence. "Rules Lawyering" and semantics are some of my favorite intellectual pasttimes and pursuits, but in the case of a relationship they matter little at the end of the day.

If something you do is going to hurt your partner then you simply need to figure out if doing it is worth the consequences or not. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not, and rules have very little to do with it.

Now, if you have rules and agreements in place (such as an open or a poly relationship) and you abide by them and a partner is still hurt by something you do, then yes, you can and should fall back on the rules you both agreed on and figure out where the agreements in place failed you. A person should also not be punished for doing something they really felt was okay to engage in.