Infidelity, from my perspective

[Ragoczy]

I've noticed several threads on infidelity lately -- and historically. So I thought I'd post a rather lengthy bit of my thoughts on the subject, including my own story which should explain why I feel the way I do.

As a warning, I have strong opinions on the subject and those opinions are that it's wrong. Dead wrong and, frankly, an evil, because it involves hurting someone who trusts you not to hurt them.

That being the case, I judge those who commit the act accordingly -- on the evil-meter, I place it somewhere near an emotionally or mentally abusive spouse. If you're being unfaithful and don't like that characterization, I really don't care -- much as I don't care what an emotionally-abusive husband thinks.

To avoid confusion, I define infidelity as knowingly doing something which your partner would consider unfaithful and hasn't agreed to.

If you're in a poly or open relationship, my comments don't apply to you, because you and your partner(s) have consented.

If you do something you honestly feel your partner wouldn't have a problem with and then find out they do, I don't consider that infidelity -- unless you keep doing it knowing they consider it being unfaithful and haven't consented.

If you have an agreement with your partner because of some situation and they don't really like the idea but have consented -- that I don't feel is infidelity.

The bottom-line is knowledge and consent.

[Ragoczy]

I was aware of my BDSM tendencies from an early age. I entered my teen years with that awareness and knew what I wanted, if not how to get it. Because of this, some would say that I can't speak to the frustration of having those tendencies and desires while involved in a traditional relationship, but I can.

Once I was old enough to really pursue BDSM, I did so with a vengeance. The area where I lived had little in the way of of a community and that mostly gay-leather, which wasn't my thing, so I traveled extensively, spending a great deal of time in the Boston and San Francisco scenes (yes, I had to go to San Francisco for hetero-kink, go figure). I spent several years happily involved in the lifestyle, but eventually became dissatisfied and disenchanted with it because something was missing.

What I saw around me in the community (and this has more to do with where I hung out than the BDSM community in general), was a rarity of long-term relationships. But that's what I wanted for myself -- I wasn't interested in an hour of play or a few months or even a few years of commitment. I'm a lifer, it's part of my nature -- I need the grow-old-together thing. But looking around, I didn't see great odds of finding that in a BDSM relationship, so I came to a realization that it was more important to me to have that lifelong commitment than to have the BDSM, so I began pursuing traditional relationships.

As a result of that, I got married to someone who had no interest in BDSM. For several years in that marriage, I ruthlessly suppressed my BDSM-desires and my urges to dominate and control. So, you see, I can understand that frustration very, very well.

The woman I'd married had been married twice before. I didn't see this as a red-flag of any kind, because the reason for those divorces was that both of her previous husbands had cheated on her with topless dancers. Since I had no intention of duplicating this, since I intended to be monogamous and faithful, it wouldn't be an issue. What I didn't take into account was what having an unfaithful partner does to a person's ability to trust.

I don't recall the details of the first time I encountered this. I might have been working late and forgot to call or ran a little late with the guys after a golf game, but I was shocked and bewildered the first time she accused me of seeing someone else. After a bit of yelling and fighting ("What the fuck is wrong with you? I had a fucking cheeseburger and a drink after golf, for Christ's sake!"), because I don't take well to being accused of wrong-doing that I didn't, I managed to "prove" that I wasn't having an affair.

From that point on, I was much more cognizant of her issues -- and after calming down I understood them and tried very hard to not give her reason to feel that way again. I adjusted my behavior to show her that there wasn't any chance I was cheating. Essentially, I put myself under the same behavior restrictions someone who had cheated would have to in order win back trust, despite the fact that I'd never betrayed that trust to begin with. If you've never experienced it, it's an incredible mental and emotional strain to not be trusted by your partner and to feel like your every move is scrutinized -- add to that the fact that I felt I was paying the price for what two other bastards had done, I was frequently an unhappy-camper.

That first accusation was repeated more than once. Not what I'd call frequently, but often enough to be wearing on both my patience and the relationship.

Under the combined stresses of suppressing my dominant nature, watching my every move to ensure it wouldn't be suspicious and occasionally having to "prove" I wasn't having an affair, I took refuge in BDSM. Not by having a physical affair or even an online one, but by taking an occasional break to view BDSM porn -- photos and stories, Usenet being a wonderful source in those days.

This was found out and was as bad as cheating. I was flabbergasted -- I was looking at porn ... guys look at porn ... porn, guys -- it's like milk and Oreos, right? Every guy looks at porn, so how could it be "cheating"? It's not wrong to look at pictures, right?

My wife didn't see it that way. Here was proof that I was unfaithful. She felt betrayed and hurt. I felt like shit, because I loved her and, even if I hadn't meant to and didn't think it was anything wrong, my actions were responsible for that hurt.

Over time, for a lot of reasons, including these, the relationship deteriorated. She grew more distant ... I grew more distant. I'm sure we both made overtures to the other than came at the wrong time and weren't recognized -- I know I felt that rejection and I'm sure I did the same to her. But from my perspective we were still married, still committed and still trying to fix things.

<give yourself a kewpie doll if you saw this next bit coming>

So when she took a weekend trip with a girlfriend to Jacksonville, I was quite surprised to get a call from that friend asking to talk to her. I was even more surprised that when I called back the number she called me from that it was a hotel in Virgina. And I was fucking shocked to check her computer and find an online relationship.

This was the one thing I'd have sworn, I'd have bet any amount of money, that she wouldn't do. Having been cheated on twice, to do it to me.

The shock, the pain, the sense of betrayal and upheaval are indescribable and I hope you never experience them.

Her response? She hadn't "done" anything. It was all online, the trip to Virginia was to meet a group of people (including him) from her chatroom. Everyone in her chatroom didn't think it was cheating. Everyone in her chatroom told her she was justified to seek out what she wasn't getting from me, so she could be happy. They were all supportive and happy for her because she'd found what she needed -- and they were all doing the same thing, so it couldn't be wrong. One of her chat friends even had a "virtual marriage", despite being actually married, and encouraged my wife to do the same -- sending her an eCard that gave my wife a "new" married name, this other guy's. And there was nothing "wrong" with any of this because it was all online and "everybody" was doing it.

Well, after she explained to me that so many people were doing it and thought it was okay, I accepted it and we lived happily ever after. Bullshit.

The details of the divorce are unimportant, just that that's where we wound up.

Now I don't begrudge the years I spent with her. I don't consider them wasted because they took me off the market during that time and got me to the point where I met my kitten. From my life's perspective, whatever I experienced during that marriage, all of the pain and frustration, was well worth it, because it put me in the right place at the time I found my kitten, who I'd willingly, gladly go through a hell of a lot more to ensure having.

But that I'm happy now doesn't make what my ex-wife did right or justifiable. And the hurt and sense of betrayal still exist -- and, in fact, color the relationship I have today.

I love my kitten beyond words and I trust her -- aside from being evil (the good way), she's an inherently good person. She has a sense of honor and personal integrity that I admire. We are devoted to each other to an extent that probably sickens those around us with it's cloying sweetness. And yet ...

I find myself, in my marriage to kitten, thinking and feeling things that I didn't in my previous marriage. Bad things, unworthy things. I stomp on them, I suppress them, I know their source and cause -- if I could dig them out of my brain with a dull spoon, I would. But they remain. Having been betrayed once, I find it difficult to avoid the evil, little, niggling doubt.

When my kitten, who's far more social than I am, goes out with her friends, I quash that thought and curse my ex-wife who put it there.

When my kitten, who does volunteer work, leaves home at 3:00AM to help a family whose house just burned to the ground, I stomp on the thought and curse my ex-wife.

When my kitten leaves for three weeks to live in a barracks and work herself bone-tired every day to help the victims of a natural disaster, I break out the dull spoon and call down vengeance on the bitch who caused my thoughts about this wonderful woman to be sullied by doubt.

I think I've been quite successful at suppressing those inane, unworthy doubts and keeping them from affecting our relationship. I doubt my kitten knows about them -- though she will now. I take that risk in the hopes that others, reading this, will realize the extent and wide-reaching impact a betrayal of trust has.

And I make an oath here that if my kitten reads this and ever alters her behavior because of any lingering, inane, unworthy reactions left in the dim reaches of my hind-brain, I shall be most wroth with her and generations of submissives will whisper the legend of her punishment like a ghost-story around the campfire.

[Ragoczy]

So what's the moral of that story? I like morals, I think stories should have morals.

Moral #1: Infidelity is in the eye of the beholder

I remember an old episode of Rosanne where the boyfriend of one of the daughters is all upset because she's mad at him and he doesn't think he did anything wrong and, in fact, it's clear that he didn't, the girl is irrationally upset. Dan is trying to explain the reality to him:

Boyfriend: "I don't understand why she's angry ..."
Dan: "It doesn't matter."
Boyfriend: "I didn't do anything wrong..."
Dan: "It doesn't matter."
Boyfriend: "She's being unreasonable ..."
Dan: "It doesn't matter."
Boyfriend: "I'm right..."
Dan: "It doesn't matter."

This is reality. You may not think it's fair -- it doesn't matter. You may think you're right -- it doesn't matter. Everyone you ask may tell you your actions are justified -- it doesn't matter.

What matters is how your partner feels about it and how they'll react. If it's something you feel you have to hide from your partner because they "won't understand" and they might be mad, guess what? You probably shouldn't be doing it.

You and your partner probably haven't sat down and laid out every specific act that you'd each consider infidelity and a betrayal. That doesn't mean that there's not a list in each of your heads of what constitutes that. If you do something on their list, it doesn't matter what you think or what everyone in your circle of friends thinks -- your partner is going to react as though you were unfaithful, because that's how they see it.

Do you think oral sex is being unfaithful? Probably you do (if not, insert some other act). How would you feel if your partner got a blowjob from a hooker? Would it make a damn bit of difference to you if they then said: "But I didn't think that was really sex ... it's just a meaningless blowjob"?

If you're in a relationship where you supposedly love and trust each other, the hesitation you feel about sharing your actions with your partner are probably a good indication that you're violating their trust.

Moral #2: Infidelity hurts

You love and trust your partner ... or, at least, you did once -- presumably that's why you got married or entered into whatever committed relationship you have.

If they feel (see Moral #1) you've been unfaithful and betrayed that trust, it will hurt them. How can you love someone and be willing to hurt them?

(Silly question in a BDSM forum, but there's an implied "hurt them in a bad way".)

Even if you don't love them any more, doesn't the love you once felt for them demand a certain amount of care for their well-being?

Moral #3: Infidelity has impacts beyond the two of you

The feeling of betrayal will color your partner's relationships for years. You're hurting not only someone you love (or loved), but innocent, unknown people who'll pay the price for your actions when they have to deal with your partner's new found trust issues.

Even if you now hate your partner, you'll be hurting people you haven't even met.

[Ragoczy]

So the BDSM community talks a lot about consent and trust. They're pillars of the BDSM relationship. Look around the forum posts and you'll see situations where the dominant (usually) is vilified for having violated the consent and trust of the submissive in some way.

And yet there is such a prevalence of justifying infidelity which, by its very nature, is a violation of consent and trust.

Or is someone who's not into BDSM somehow not worthy of that same consideration?

Because they're "vanilla", it's okay to violate their trust? Because they don't share our somehow superior mindset, their lack of consent is meaningless?

The partner of someone who's unfaithful has their trust violated and certainly hasn't consented. You may argue that their consent isn't necessary, because they're not actively involved ... but they're the one who'll be hurt.

When there's a caning, the one who feels the blows is the one who has to consent.

The same applies to the one who'll be hurt by infidelity, they haven't given their consent by-proxy to the person being unfaithful.

To you submissives out there involving yourselves with dominants who are hiding their activities from a partner, ask yourselves this: This person has already violated a trust and shown they're willing to hurt someone who hasn't consented for their own selfish desires -- can you really trust them?

[leah06]

Thanks so much for these heartfelt and thoughtful posts.

[SnickerKitten]

*sigh* ...and when this kitten's friends are all sitting around bashing their husbands/boyfriends/significant others they wonder why all I can say is how amazing and wonderful my husband is.

Actually, any of them that have met him, do NOT wonder and wish wistfully that I could clone him.

Let me just say, that my thoughts on infidelity are exactly the same as Ragoczy (my Dom/husband). If your spouse has knowledge and gives you permission to engage in specific sexual activities or you have an open arrangement that has been consented to by both (all three, four, however many) parties then more power to ya! My husband allows me to play with other girls at our club and everything that I do has been discussed and consented to by both of us (as well as my "victim" hee hee hee).


I think the one area we differ is how we would handle it if our partner betrayed us. He would take the high road and be rational and mature. I know he'd be done with me and I'd then be without him. Me, on the other hand....

My husband leads people to believe that I am a good, kindhearted, wonderful woman. BAH! I'm a selfish, hedonistic wench. I appear to be nice and wonderful until someone messes with something I have or want. If I were to uncover an online affair on my Beloved's part that I hadn't consented to, I'd remove his eyes while he slept. If I were to uncover a real life affair I hadn't approved then he'd wake up strapped down with no way to escape while I removed his penis layer by layer before killing him. Yes, I'm a vindictive bitch.

My point with this??? Take heed of Ragoczy's point that it's not the view of the person being unfaithful that matters, but the view of the one being deceived and lied to. THAT person is the one who's reaction matters the most.

I adore Ragoczy beyond reason, beyond sanity. What we have together means more to me than anything else in the world (I include the children that are now "ours" rather than "mine" in what we have together) and woe be to the person that tramples on that, whether it be either of us or someone else.

Think things through before tempting yourself with an affair of any type. If there is something missing from your relationship, TALK to your significant other about it, GIVE them the chance to provide it for you OR the opportunity to say YES to you seeking fulfillment of that need somewhere else.

-Ragoczy's kitten

[VanillaBear]

This post should seriously be required reading in highschool. This is something everyone should become aware of. It amazes me how often I see people asking others (outside their relationship) if something theyve done constitutes infidelity. How is that even ok? If you have to ask, then the question is already answered. Thank you Rago and SnickerKitten!

[Euryleia]

Thank you both for sharing your thoughts and feeling on this issue. I like the different perspective that you bring up. We can try and fool our own conscience but once you consider things from your partner's side, you know where the lines are drawn.

[orchidsoul]

My first love cheated on me.
In an odd way, I've always been thankful because I knew right out of the gates what it felt like and swore I'd never do it to anyone or allow it to be done to me again.
So far in life I've been a monogamist and have always precedented relationships with the need to be honest. Just tell me if there's interest in someone else, and I'll do the same, so we have the choice to leave or begin an open relationship. Whether monogamy is for you, or not...it's all about honesty for me.

But yes, I think cheating (as in deceiving a partner) is one of the ultimate in disrespect... and I don't tolerate disrespect. With that being said though, I honestly don't know how I'd react if a love of mine (husband, long term partner, etc) cheated on me. I would probably go through much of what you and your ex did, Ragoczy. I commend people who are able to make it past an affair. It's torturous to those deeply affected by it.

I've seen families ripped apart by affairs, I've seen open relationships thrive, I've seen marriages repair after an affair, and I've seen monogamous relationships last 40+ yrs. I've also been part of an affair unbeknownst to myself. I'd begun dating a man who failed to tell me he got back with an old girlfriend before we started dating. I was absolutely horrified. How dare he put me in the position of being someone's mistress without ME (or her) consenting to that? It goes both ways. Not everyone would want to be part of an affair and that's something to take into consideration.

My views are obviously that of someone who has never been in a really long term relationship and felt that I was missing something. My relationships have always ended respectfully. In fact, I've been to several ex's weddings Perhaps it's easier said than done... but I don't think disrespecting someone is needed. Communication, working damn hard to solve issues, and respecting my partner regardless of the lull we might be in at the moment is how I aspire to behave in any relationship.

We don't always get what we want or need in our lives. And it's surely not always roses or is it always going to be like the day we fell in love with someone...but where did the sacrificial lessons of our parents and grandparents go? I know my grandfather didn't like his 30+ yr job- but it put food on his families table, a roof over their head, clothes on their backs, and provided retirement for them. He never complained one day in his life about what he had to do. He sacrificed. I've seen my parents almost get divorced, and have a few rough years more than once... but they survived the lulls and are still together. Both my parents have sacrificed throughout the years.

Thankfully in our modern times, we have so much choice and opportunity, but I wonder at times if it has skewed us too much towards selfish? I don't think anyone should be unhappy in life. I really don't... but I also don't think people's needs should harm others feelings.

Yes, I'm an old soul idealist with romantic ideas of perseverance. And I'm not espousing my opinion to offend because I really don't judge others. No one can walk exactly in someone else's shoes. It's just that my idealism tells me there has to be a way to make everyone happy in the end without betraying or disrespecting someone.

[skp2bear]

oh God how infidelity hurts. Just as Hurricane Ike was coming in i had to get a vanilla friend to contact Master and let himknow of the danger. Several days later when power finally came back it was here i found out about his new interest. After calling him a few choice names not repeatable here he finally answered me and released me. yet this one now craves him and he just wants to be friends. now just crying every time she sees his nameand realizes shes all alone again.