Some of the basic submissive rights

[ShadePayne]

I have talked to several of the new submissives and tried to answer their questions to the best of my ability. I have listed a few of my own thoughts on how my relationship with MasterStone operates, this works well for us and it may not for you but if you are able to draw something out of it and apply to your relationship then my time wasn't wasted. Like I said this isn't gospel just my own point of view.

1) You have the right to be respected. No one should be ordering you around or expecting you to answer questions or doing things you're not comfortable with.

2) You have the right to your freedom. Just because someone is interested in you, they can't take your freedom from you. Don't let anyone try to intimidate you; you belong to no one until you offer yourself to them. They can't restrict you in any way until you allow that; and they try.

3) You have a right to be satisfied--emotionally and physically. This is a relationship, people. While the power control aspect does add a few kinks (pun intended) into the mix, you don't get extra points for making yourself into a sacrificial lamb for someone else's amusement and/or satisfaction. Get what you need or find someone else that will give it to you.

4) You have a right to take your time and not rush into anything … ever. Being chained in the doorway, naked and … vulnerable … isn't really the best time to find out your Dominant wants to explore their sadistic side a little more. Talk, talk, talk … and talk some more. If you have concerns that aren't addressed, move on. It's not worth the risk.

5) You DON'T have a right to play "needy and desperate." Who in the world wants to own someone that doesn't have a backbone and will submit to anyone for any reason? Take resposibility for you actions....make informed decisions.

6) You have a right to respect yourself. This means holding out for the relationship YOU want and not being talked into the relationship someone else wants with you. We are submissive, not stupid and, if you're not going to be happy, you're only wasting everyone's time. And, a collar … any collar … isn't worth your peace of mind. Honest. It has to be the right one.

7) You have a right to be safe. This means having the identity of the one you're going to be spending time with. If you have concerns, tell them. If they don't readily offer information you request, wonder why. And, keep moving.

8) You have the right to enjoy this … always. If you find you're in a relationship that's bringing more tears, confusion and unreasonable or uncomfortable demands than smiles and … warm fuzzies … take some time to pull back and see what's going on or talk with someone else about it, either your Dominant or a friend who knows the lifestyle. It's very possible that you've fallen into the "comfort zone" of being in a relationship just to be in a relationship. That's not good. The same basics apply here as anywhere; something's wrong if you're taking medication just to get up in the morning. You deserve more than that. Have the courage to find it. You'll be glad you did!"

I hope I have answered some question that so many are afraid to ask or really never thought about asking.

To be honest I wasn't fully aware of my own rights until my Master and I sat down and discussed both of our roles and our responsiblities to ourselves and to each other.

[Mairead]

Shade,

That is absolutely wonderful! It's great advice!

[jezabel]

this is brilliant, wish someone had told me a few of these rules when i started

[fetishdj]

All good ideas... maybe they should be written up properly and posted somewhere so they can be read by any new sub or even Dom/me who enters the site?

I would add somewhere that legally you cannot consent to anything that will harm you. No contract which states this is valid in any court of law. Possibly a side note to the clause about freedom.

[jeanne]

Good information. Thanks!

[leah06]

I know we're moving away from stickies, but this should be posted somewhere prominent.

[leah06]

Fetishdj, I'm not sure about not legally consenting to harm. I mean, people get pierced and tattooed and have elective cosmetic surgery. I think that, in general, although it differs in some states, battery is an unconsensual touching of a certain kind; you can generally consent to physical contact, even violent contact, again with some exceptions.

What you can't do anywhere is contract away your ability to withdraw consent in the future. You can't actually play without a safeword, legally, because the ordinary words, stop, no, I don't consent will be construed as a withdrawal of the earlier consent NO MATTER WHAT was previously agreed about the meaning of those words. The perpetrator might argue that he misunderstood and therefore did not intend to transgress the withdrawal of consent, but he will be on very shaky ground.

This is not given as competent legal advice; please don't structure your life around this, but I don't want people to think that you can't give consent to rough stuff, ever.

[Arria]

Very well said.

[Stone]

Very good my pet I am very pleased and honored to be your teacher. I am very proud of you

[Diablo]

Well said.

[clipcrop]

Very good, Shade. It all seems so obvious, and yet I'm amazed at how many times I've explained these same basic tenet to subs with varying degrees of experience.

[damyanti]

Usually these lists about submissives are pretentious crap....but this one is something every submissive, actually every person, should comprehend before embarking on a relationship. Thank you so Very Much for putting this into words, Shade.

[GrandMaster]

It should not have to be said - it all boils down to: you are a new sub here, but actually still a regular person with every right you had before.
I can see the need for something like this though, if there are many new insecure subs and many old manipulating doms.
If you help only one person, you did good, and you are likely to have helped many more and saved them from a lot of trouble.
Thank you ShadePayne.

[Veralynne]

Agree with GrandMaster- it should not have to be said.

Do people really come in wondering what their "rights" are? If so, then I am glad for this post. I hope people, including submissives, are aware that calling yourself a Dom doesn't give you magic powers over every sub in the world.

[sinfulsex]

thanks ShadePayne, i think this is a great thread. the person i was a year ago would have wondered what her rights were..... i've learnt a lot since then but there are people that just don't know so i think you will have helped more than 1 person. great post, thanks for the thought and effort put into it

sinful x

[denuseri]

WOW!! Awsome awsome advice sisa!!!

Now if we can just get every single person in the world to read it.

[fetishdj]

Fetishdj, I'm not sure about not legally consenting to harm. I mean, people get pierced and tattooed and have elective cosmetic surgery. I think that, in general, although it differs in some states, battery is an unconsensual touching of a certain kind; you can generally consent to physical contact, even violent contact, again with some exceptions.

What you can't do anywhere is contract away your ability to withdraw consent in the future. You can't actually play without a safeword, legally, because the ordinary words, stop, no, I don't consent will be construed as a withdrawal of the earlier consent NO MATTER WHAT was previously agreed about the meaning of those words. The perpetrator might argue that he misunderstood and therefore did not intend to transgress the withdrawal of consent, but he will be on very shaky ground.

This is not given as competent legal advice; please don't structure your life around this, but I don't want people to think that you can't give consent to rough stuff, ever.

Elective surgery (cosmetic or otherwise) comes under special regulations with respect to consent because there are ethical committees at each and every hospital who discuss each and every treatment and make a judgement as to the benefit/risk assessment of each one before they allow them to be used. This means that there is a careful consideration of the risks before the procedure is carried out both in general (we as a hospital beleive this procedure is benficial because the risks are outweighted by the potential improvement in prognosis) and specific to a single patient (I as a doctor beleive that this procedure will not be a risk to this patient for these reasons...). There is also the issue of medical council registration (BMA or AMA or General Medical council). If a doctor makes a bad call, going against an ethical committee decision, they can lose their registration.

Tatoos, piercings and similar are also managed by a similar system of registration and a piercer/tatooist can lose thier license if they do not follow the strict regulations.

BDSM is not covered by any such overarching body. Dom/mes (professional or otherwise) are not registered with any central body and while we do tend to follow a set of universal guidelines (SSC or RACK, depends which you prefer) these are not considered legally binding - they are merely a set of guidelines that all in the lifestyle tend to follow. Therefore, any contract or consent form between two BDSM lifestylers claiming that one gives the other permission to harm them in any way is unlikely to be supported by a judge in a court of law. Therefore, if a sub and a Dom fall out and the sub decides to sue the Dom for GBH and the Dom presents the contract/consent form the judge does not have to accept it as evidence that the sub did consent. Similarly, if the police find evidence of GBH and press criminal charges (which I think they can do in cases of GBH or murder/manslaughter without the involvement of the wronged party) then again the contract is not acceptable as evidence.

Of course, a judge can happily accept it if they so choose but they are not legally obliged to (as they would be for a medical consent form) and if they did this may create a precedent which could affect future cases of this type (which may mean that they are unwilling to accept it in order to avoid this precedent).

Now the above does mainly apply to serious cases and only those cases where there is a cause for the law to get involved - manslaughter, serious injury etc. 'Rough stuff' is probably ok to consent to, just be aware that a court will not take any 'slave contracts' seriously and they will not protect from prosecution if a sub who has consented changes their mind and you 'insist', the sub accidentaly gets more seriously injured than you intended or (worst case scenario, and these do happen...) the sub dies due to something which could be due to the BDSM activity.

[ffion]

thanks ShadePayne - very useful and sensible, shouldn't need saying, but it does need saying!

[Tiler]

great advice

[mzkkbprmt]

Those were a very interesting read. I am just starting out and I don't really know much about this yet, and have seen some conflicting information. However, those rights make a lot of sense, and I shall try to remember them as I get into the lifestyle.

Thanks very much!

[HisButterflySlave]

Great advice, thank you

[Willsubmit2]

these were absoultely brilliant my fellow sub. kudos for the info share and those who read can formulate around them.

[Miner]

Elective surgery (cosmetic or otherwise)

BDSM is not covered by any such overarching body. Dom/mes (professional or otherwise) are not registered with any central body and while we do tend to follow a set of universal guidelines (SSC or RACK, depends which you prefer) these are not considered legally binding - they are merely a set of guidelines that all in the lifestyle tend to follow. Therefore, any contract or consent form between two BDSM lifestylers claiming that one gives the other permission to harm them in any way is unlikely to be supported by a judge in a court of law. Therefore, if a sub and a Dom fall out and the sub decides to sue the Dom for GBH and the Dom presents the contract/consent form the judge does not have to accept it as evidence that the sub did consent. Similarly, if the police find evidence of GBH and press criminal charges (which I think they can do in cases of GBH or murder/manslaughter without the involvement of the wronged party) then again the contract is not acceptable as evidence.

Of course, a judge can happily accept it if they so choose but they are not legally obliged to (as they would be for a medical consent form) and if they did this may create a precedent which could affect future cases of this type (which may mean that they are unwilling to accept it in order to avoid this precedent).

Now the above does mainly apply to serious cases and only those cases where there is a cause for the law to get involved - manslaughter, serious injury etc. 'Rough stuff' is probably ok to consent to, just be aware that a court will not take any 'slave contracts' seriously and they will not protect from prosecution if a sub who has consented changes their mind and you 'insist', the sub accidentaly gets more seriously injured than you intended or (worst case scenario, and these do happen...) the sub dies due to something which could be due to the BDSM activity.

Not sure about other jurisdictions - but I have a feeling the response might be the same as here...

BDSM activity would still fall foul of the zero tolerance attitudes to domestic violence and result in a likely successful prosecution for assault and battery by the dom and (even worse perhaps) successful prosecution against the sub for aiding and abetting domestic violence (even though the sub would also class as the victim of domestic violence).

In other words - if the police or legal system get involved in any way as a result of BDSM activity it could turn nasty for the lifestylers.

The above was a bit off topic - the original post was excellent advice to all

[usbabe]

great words of advice. Although it seems like a no-brainer take it from one who almost fell into a possible trap.......the words do need to be said AND read. thank you for this great post.

babe

[fetishdj]

Not sure about other jurisdictions - but I have a feeling the response might be the same as here...

BDSM activity would still fall foul of the zero tolerance attitudes to domestic violence and result in a likely successful prosecution for assault and battery by the dom and (even worse perhaps) successful prosecution against the sub for aiding and abetting domestic violence (even though the sub would also class as the victim of domestic violence).

In other words - if the police or legal system get involved in any way as a result of BDSM activity it could turn nasty for the lifestylers.

The above was a bit off topic - the original post was excellent advice to all

Yes, we are off topic slightly...

I think the main reason why the law is like this in most places is to protect against domestic violence. There are so many cases of this where the victim appears to consent to it but has been bullied into doing so. So if you open up a loophole like a BDSM contract then a lot more abusive bastards will slip through the net and BDSM will get tarred with a 'domestic violence' brush which will do our already beleagured PR campaign no end of harm.

Back on topic... any moves towards getting the original post put somewhere so all can read it? Doesn't need to be a sticky - it could be posted somewhere seperate (in the story section? In a section on its own dedicated to information for new people?) with a link to it at the top (saying 'information for those new to the lifestyle'). Add some more useful newbie FAQs (which we can easily get from a quick trawl of the forums) and we have a useful resource.

[brokenartist]

Shade very good advice. Most people forget about themselves when it comes to this.

[MasterNox]

As a new Master this kind of information is vital to establishing a safe and happy M/s relationship. Thanks Shade.

[summerBreeze{EDQ}]

Thanks Shade I a a new sub and lucky to have a master who discusses things with me.

[cdrums67]

thanks for the advice

[blacqcobra]

Man!!!! Deep and very true. Also I tend to disagree with Miner, it was not off topic. Instead it was spot on! There is a very thin line between domestic violence and consensual BDSM. Thus the reason one should thoroughly vett the person they are giving themselves to. The police are want not to understand that!! Too many times I've been in court and watched what went for domestic violence but instead was a sort of role play that got out of hand. Especially when done in a drunken stupor.