Is BDSM a religion?

[his_girl_l]

[QUOTE=Veronika;765481]Do you believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Saviour? Do you believe Jesus died on the cross and rose again for your sins?

No, i don't. Nor do i see my Master in that light.

And nor do i come to these forums and expect to find evangelising christians judging my lifestyle choices, anymore than i would go to a forum devoted to religious faith and question peoples sexual and lifestyle choices.

There is a religion and philosophy thread here where you may have better luck finding the answers you seek.

By the way, i found the slaves prayer beautiful, even though i personally don't have a deity to direct it to.

[Veronika]

I quite enjoyed your opening posts, but your later ones do make me wonder what it is you hope to accomplish..

Please read my posts 24 and 39.

so please extend us the same courtesy of not implying that there is something sinister, sick or abnormal in a way we choose to conduct our personal relationship.

I have never said those things, why would you interpret it that way? Are those your own thoughts?

[lucy]

This thread once more showed me how lucky i am to not believe in anything. Life's just so much easier when you're an ignostic atheist

To the original question (which i think is a good one): Nope, BDSM is not a religion, because unlike the only religion i know (catholicism) and most i heard of nobody tries to tell me what is right and wrong, good or bad, allowed or forbidden.
I can walk through the world of BDSM, pick things i like, reject ideas i dislike, mix it all together and form something that perfectly suits my needs.
If i'm really lucky, i can do that with someone else, or more than one, and nobody tells me with whom and how many of them.

Now which religion allows you that many choices?

[Veronika]

the original question (which i think is a good one)

I appreciate that, thanks.

[hopperboo]

NO it is not a religion...imo.

[TwstdKittie]

I feel that if you were going to call it anything even REMOTELY like a religion, I'd liken it more to Buddhism, as in, not a religion but a way of life. It's something that for me, brings inner peace when I understand and embrace that aspect of me, and it brings balance to my life and calms me when I think about my Master and other things. It's just another fulfilling part of my existence, but I'm also not "religious" so I'd say it's definitely more like Buddhism, but not spiritual in the sense of having a deity/deities that are "worshipped" per se.

[Matin]

veronika,
i thought i'd add my thoughts to the mix, if only to throw a wrench in ^.^

no i don't equate what i do sexually with religion. or what i do lifestyle-wise with religion.

but with spirituality, oh boy, you betcha. confusing? for me it is sometimes.

but i believe, very strongly, that sex and the male/female or masculine/feminine dynamic (lol in whatever manner its expressed) are very much muddled in my head and that sex is for me often times a spiritual event.

and heres another fun thing; being pagan by my path i have engaged in sexual acts AS spiritual acts and vise/versa.

this topic has actually made me stretch my mind around the links between sex and spirituality in ways i often havent - like a lot of people i don't think too hard on things i accept and take for granted as part of my world.

but i also think it may be a good idea not to read much into that. most pagan religions as ive read them deal with a very basic tenet of duality in their world view. god and goddess, often in the older ones with the goddess held higher than the god, but more commonly with a general equality. and naturally because we give human characteristics to the world around us - anthropomorphism or "magical thinking" - so the weather, the turn of the seasons, the solstices and fire festivals all become wrapped in a mythos containing a lot of sex.

a lot of masculine/feminine interactions into which one can read sexual content but i wanted to make sure you were still reading. so logically we(pagans, but not all) strive to worship and express our spirituality in ways that reflect the mythos. sex!

the human body is a gift, the world around me as i see it it a great roiling natural sex show, so i dive in and participate to the best of my ability.

i had fun with this, i know y'all are confused. hehehe

i'm so keeping an eye on this thread.

bon soir
-matin

[wind_dancer{W_W}]

For me it is a religion because my Master IS my Lord i pray to Him and love Him more so than any modern day religion ever could love their god He is my God and i love Him more than any other thing in this world

[IAN 2411]

As anyone bothered to look up the word religion, if you haven't then this will be a surprise to all you non believers. Intpret it in any way you wish, my belief is that it is a religion and a faith.

Wicipedia.

This article is about a general set of beliefs about life, purpose, etc.
A religion is any systematic approach to living that involves beliefs about one's origins, one's place in the world, or a responsibility to live and act in the world in particular ways. Religion is often equated with faith and belief in a higher power or truth, but it is more properly defined as the pattern of action that expresses that faith, and reinforces it in day-to-day living. Thus, one can share the philosophy of a religion, believing in its higher truth, without manifesting that faith religiously.
Aspects of religion include narrative, symbolism, beliefs, and practices that are supposed to give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life. Whether the meaning centers on a deity or deities, or an ultimate truth Religion is commonly identified by the practitioner's prayer, ritual, meditation, music and art, among other things, and is often interwoven with society and politics. It may focus on specific supernatural, metaphysical, and moral claims about reality (the cosmos and human nature) which may yield a set of religious laws, ethics, and a particular lifestyle. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and religious experience.
The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction. "Religion" is sometimes used interchangeably with "faith" or "belief system, but it is more socially defined than personal convictions, and it entails specific behaviors, respectively.
The development of religion has taken many forms in various cultures. It considers psychological and social roots, along with origins and historical development.

Regards ian

[SadisticNature]

BDSM is neither a religion nor a cult in my opinion.

I think there is ample evidence already in this thread to support the fact that BDSM is not a religion, most importantly the fact that it goes against the basic definition of religion.

As for the more extreme claim that BDSM is a cult, I strongly disagree. Firstly, cults often try to indoctrinate minors, which BDSM strictly avoids with age limits. Secondly, BDSM offers a lot of personal freedom to both Doms and subs with regards to even such fundamental things about what BDSM is. You wouldn't see Scientologists offering these choices about the meaning of Scientology for instance.

Thirdly, while each group or event has its own rules, these are often a matter of practicality, and vary wildly from event to event even within the same organization. The dress code for a munch for instance is radically different than the dress code for a play party and each is often dictated by the location of the event, and other practical considerations. This is a far cry from some sort of uniform.

[Wiscoman]

People actually study cults and have found that they all operate along similar lines, so -- for the sake of context -- here are the characteristics of a cult from International Cultic Studies Association:

The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

‪Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

‪Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

‪The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

‪The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

‪The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

‪The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

‪The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

‪The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

‪Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

‪The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

‪The group is preoccupied with making money.

‪Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

‪Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

‪The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

Obviously, some of this will sound familiar since we're dealing with issues of control. But I've got to tell you, if "Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group" applies to you, run -- don't walk -- from that relationship.

My verdict; not a religion, and certainly not a cult.

[Thorne]

A religion is any systematic approach to living that involves beliefs about one's origins ...

Well that lets me out! My life is as far from systematic as you can get!

[Izzydoodle]

Just a thought, but the BDSM lifestyle could be a good example of Civil Religion. It performs some of the functions that religion does, for example a sense of unity/community, uniform, rules, stuff like that. Football is often considered a Civil Religion, if that's the case that surely BDSM is too? Like i said, just a thought.

[angelhunter]

There was a discussion at our Buddhist meeting, "is Buddhism a religion?" In our form of Buddhism there are no Gods, no creation story or talk of how the universe will end. In studying Buddhism is nothing about debate that started in India and migrated to China then Japan.

In all religions all major religion has a base and debate is part of it. There are some who say Jesus is only a prophet, some say he is the son of God and some say he is God. The debate goes on.

I believe any type of thinking can become a religion. Everything starts with the spark to the flame. If bondage is something that you feel very strongly and it feels like it is big part of you and then who can say it's not a religion. I think the key word for me in the word religion is finding who you are. Some have to have a divine being and some can find some other path. Your path is yours, it is personal and dear to the one who walks the path. For me in general, I always said that science is my main religion and Buddhism is my secondary.

I believe in cause and effect and what science calls action and reaction. You can not deny action and reaction. Maybe one day, the fire will create a inferno and who knows maybe bondage can be a religion. Did the early Christians know that this religion would have been so massive? What will be the religion of tomorrow? Or better yet, maybe religion will die, who knows.

Nuff said.

[xspy4u]

Ahhh...my specialty....I have extenisive time spent in the study of religion and a BDSM lifetsyle does not fit a "religous" system of belief and order in the purely "western sense." However, religion is by design a method by which we explain our purpose and our place in the greater scheme of things...so we could at least call the lifestyle a "spiritual"pursuit. Now on to my Christian friend. Although a topic avoided by most evangelistic Christians, we know...yes we know...that most of Christianity was borrowed from more ancient religions...starting with a little tale called Genesis that Moses made changes to from the Egyptian story of Geb and Nut. We also know that historians of Jesus' time missed all the miracles of Jesus, that Nazareth did not exist until 75 years after Christ's alleged death, that the words of Jesus in Mathew are different than in John...where Jesus moves from Son to God himself...and that most of the ceremonies were borrowed from the Pagans....that being said, although I am not a practitioner of BDSM nor a Christian...please don't use as evidence a book written by a bunch of folks who slayed so many in the name of their borrowed god. I respect your right to keep your own faith, but not to cast judgement under the guise of curiousty - "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 6:1)

[ropekitty]

My own humble views on this topic is I don't really see it as a religion but that doesn't mean one cannot use it in their religious pracitices. There is one thing I have the urge to point out is where yes submissives/slaves hold their Doms/Masters/Owners in high respects they also know that their Owners are human and therefore also make mistakes as well as need support and everything else that humans need. Some, I am guilty of this in the past, forget that Doms are human and elevate them to a higher level then they really are. Is this a bad thing? in some cases it is because setting someone so high up will eventually have them come crashing down in the subs eyes at some point (in general). So, yes the kinks of queening and "whorshipping" feet and other body parts are out there, I do not think it is the same as what I do in my faith with a higher being that isn't human.

To slightly touch on my views of how one would use kink in their faith, if I'm not going too far off on topic, would be using kink as a tool to get to a goal/place in ones mind (I really hope I am saying this correctly). For example, One path that is out there is known as the Ordeal path. This is where one goes through an odreal to get to an altered state/other reasons. Having a scene set up with a person that is more intense and both parties are aware of the goals allows the kink to be used as a tool in one's ways of practicing their faith. That's one general way I look at mixing kink and my religion, but I would never call bdsm my religion.

~RK~

[Blepharospasm]

www.isaacgruzinsky.com