mastercoyote the Old Guard vs New Leather is a popular theme for discussion groups at events, not to mention private gatherings and I think a book. The area of Tops with experience on the bottom is one of the main areas of disagreement in the community.

As Curtis reminds the literature of the time bears this out. And if you look further back through 1945 I think you will find it true as well. One of the main reasons for the lack of self taught Tops is the lack of materials. Remember we didn't have the internet, and books published on the subject. The magazines we did have were for the most part fantasies on paper, just like the library here. Or a bunch of pretty pictures. A few would have columns that represented real life issues and themes but even one magazine taken as a whole over the years of publication didn't match the volume of one book. There were films too, those lovely 8mm B&W things without sound. Like todays many were great to look at but not much to learn from. Lets face it insex today is a great place to watch our sadistic fantasies played out but probably not the best place to learn how to be a Top. So there wasen't much to learn from.

Then too equipment suppliers were very limited and if you didn't know someone to tell you where to get the stuff you had to make it or go without. So the opportunity to go it alone was very limited.

Then you get into the the societal perceptions of the lifestyle. Prior to the mid 90's the public knowledge of your involvement in the BDSM lifestyle was an often invitation to harassment, discrimination, abuse and in rare cases death. This becomes more of a reality the further back you go. If you happened to be gay or lesbian you compounded this many times over. So this meant that if you wanted to get involved in BDSM you probably had to seek out someone or a group. The need for secrecy was paramount.

Your next problem because of this is meeting someone. If you are a new untrained Top and you place an add in a magazine and convinced a bottom or two to show up and then present as Top without experience you will soon find the magazine won't take your adds. If you try to contact a Top you will find in the first letter or two they they won't deal with you for several reasons. The first is that because they have themselves had the experience of bottoming as a training ground they will require it. It is here you learn the customs, respect, rituals and philosophy. It is also here you will be segregated form any group that might be present instill your comitment, mental stability, work and financial history and other background can be verified. This is to protect The Top and later the group from abuse. See above. It is also here, after your initiation and training on the bottom, you will be introduced to the skills and concepts of the Top. This is done in as part of the work in the Dungeon by participating in a managed way in the work there. Yes I use the work because that was the most common term of my time. While play generally involved more sex then BDSM. So bottom line it is much like college, you probably aren't going to get into a Masters program if you don't have a Bachelors degree much less High School.

So that is my take on why Tops or Doms etc. with out experience of the bottom is new. Like I said before it in and of itself isn't bad, but it is new, different and tested on a large scale only in the short run. As with most things it depends on the people involved.

This is where we get to the New Leather. It brings us SSC and RAK. A quick phrase to help us understand and justify things that were traditionally learned through experience and the sharing of others experiences and ideas. Do they make sense, yes, are they a good idea, you bet. But all to often these phrases are all that gets learned. To often they are just words, "Oh your SSC, I'm SSC lets play" without knowing the meaning of the phrase. They may hear or read the rules on meeting new people but seldom heed or follow them due to the lack of understanding of the consequences. These are the types of things you can only understand form the process of mentoring. All to often I get confronted by someone who was hurt by trying something they saw or read on the internet.

On the good side New Leather has opened the BDSM world to people who ten years ago would have never heard the term. It has brought that "something" to those who have been searching for it. And it so some extent has brought together the disparate communities of BDSM to share ideas and the love of the lifestyle.

So each has its pluses and minuses, hopefully in the next few years the two will merge more fully and we will get more pluses and fewer minuses.

So there you go a short thought on a discussion that can and does keep going and going.....

Oh ya mastercoyote that mentor you mentioned. For my money its the best thing a Dom or sub can do to learn and grow in the lifestyle.

Oh and this may be for you one of those things you may never understand, like women, but just apperciate.

Time to put the soapbox back in the warehouse and clear the smoke......