Where have all the reviewers gone

[Marcus]

story feedback
Until last week the dozens of stories I've written over the years were a personal diversion. I came upon this site and was so impressed I decided to jump in the water, so I wrapped up and submitted 2 stories which have been read by an amazing number of people (or at least opened).

I've received exactly one e-mail from a reader, fortunately positive and asking for more stories. I now understand why readers are encouraged to respond as the silence, for me, has been discouraging.

While my stories lack little details like character development (why bother when you have a readership of one - me -since I knew everything about these people already), can they be so bad that only one kind, but obviously unbalance reader responds?

My current story in progress was started last week with the mindset of telling the story to others, but I'm struggling to keep a positive attitude.

Input from anyone would be appreciated.

Chum

You received an email! Wow! That;s probably better than most already. Actually, from my experience you'll probably get more emails than reviews, although I don't know why it's like that.

It really is amazing how few people review the stories, compared to the quantity of 'readers'. It's not as if they have to say anything complex, just a vote would be something!

I hope you keep faith with the site, as there are some good people and real talent here, even if the readership is a bit shy.

[boccaccio2000g]

Chum: I've received exactly one e-mail from a reader, fortunately positive and asking for more stories. I now understand why readers are encouraged to respond as the silence, for me, has been discouraging.

Thanks for raising an issue that concerns many of us.

Yes, it can be very depressing, can't it? My three stories have been opened, some 30,000 times. But I believe I can count the number of reviews on one hand, and the number of individuals who have e-mailed me (some more than once) on the other. Many thanks to all those who have done either.

Perhaps those numbers say more about my stories than the communicativeness of our readership; :-) let's hope not.

But while we authors bemoan our fate, let's also ask ourselves a question -- how many reviews have you and I written? How many e-mails have you and I sent? Almost certainly you've read some stories here that tickled your, um, fancy, right? Did YOU drop the author a line? I've read (at least parts of) a lot of stories here, ranging from great to execrable, and my rate of response isn't a whole lot better than that of my readership. Shame on me.

If we authors alone (I imagine there must be over 100 of us) were each to sit down and pass along kudos to the authors here whose stories we have most enjoyed, (and in some cases inspired us), we'd surely be a happier band, don't you think?

In fact I'm going to check the lists and refresh my memory as to some of my favorite titles and make some comments here tomorrow; why don't you do the same? Why don't we all do the same?

Chum: While my stories lack little details like character development (why bother when you have a readership of one - me -since I knew everything about these people already),

Now that's a defeatist attitude, It seems to me; if you're going to go the trouble of writing at all, why not make your story the best it can be? Not for us, but for yourself. In the final analysis, if you're proud of your story, it shouldn't matter what the rest of us think. No matter what you or I write here, it cannot possibly please all of the varied tastes of our readers; the best we can hope for, I think, is that we REALLY please those who happen to share our own particular taste in erotica.

Finally -- I read one of your stories (forgive me, I read it a couple of days ago and I don't remember the title and I don't think I can exit this screen to check it without losing everything I've typed) and it was a nice effort. Keep up the good work! But, speaking for myself, I'd rather read a few good-to-great stories than a lot of fair-to-middling ones. So if you elect to send in a number of other stories, as I hope you do, take a little extra trouble and make each one the best you can; you'll be glad you did. And so will we.

Cheers,

Boccaccio

[Chum]

Thank you Marcus and Boccaccio for your responses.

I see what you mean about e-mails outnumbering reviews as two more encouraging messages arrived today, but no reviews. The message I got before my post on the forum didn't specify which of my two stories they liked (hopefully both), but the two today complemented "Truth be told," the shortest, and what I thought poorest of the two. Since the much longer (and I thought better) "Families compete," has had more readers overall, it is some indication that an author can't necessarily be a good judge of his own work in terms of broader appeal.

My comment about my lack of character development that Boccaccio mentioned is one of several areas for improvement that I am working on now that my goal is to write stories for the enjoyment of readers other than myself. I admit to getting lazy over the years of off and on writing for just me, and the two stories on site were written, but for rather hastily drafted endings, before deciding to join your ranks. One day I had never given a thought to publishing. Two days later, after discovering this fine site, I became so nervously enthused with the idea that I felt compelled to jump in right away, rather than holding off till a new story (or substantial revisions) could be completed.

My biggest fear now (with my current story in progress at 150K and the end barely in sight) is that I may beat the interest out of future readers with too much explanatory content in my newfound zeal to create living people and clearly imagined surroundings in the minds of my readers.

Chum

[boccaccio2000g]

As I indicated yesterday, I gave some thought last night as to which of the stories posted here I had found most memorable.

To other authors -- let me preface my remarks by saying that I spend a lot more time writing these days than I do reading -- if I don't mention any of your stories it does not necessarily mean that I didn't like them. I may very well not have read them, or not enough of them to give them a fair reading. There are a number of story codes which are red lights for me, and it wouldn't matter if the stories were Nobel Prize material -- it would not have occurred to me to open them

In no particular order --

The Viddler Stories -- I prefer stories told from the male point of view with energetic villains. And Viddler's vivid villains are more vicious than most. The quality of his stories varies, and there is a certain samenness to many of them -- you probably shouldn't read more than a few at a time -- but if you're into stories with dominant males, and like his method of telling stories through dialogue rather than through description, he's first rate. One of the few authors who, upon occasion, I have consciously tried to emulate -- in his case by employing dialogue to convey erotic content. There are "temptation scenes" in several of my stories -- for example Chapter XIII "Tempted into Cruelty" in the Jade Pavilion Book II. A belated thanks to Viddler, the master of this technique.

Tent of the Bedouin by Bedouin -- This, on the other hand, is a story with marvelous descriptions, especially at the beginning. I thought that the energy flagged somewhat halfway through (a not uncommon weakness in our genre). An excellent job of creating an exotic world. In this regard, Faibhar's stories deserve commendation as well; the erotic content in them doesn't appeal that much to my particular tastes, but the scene-setting is usually excellent.

Neighborhood Sex and Torture Club Parts I and II -- These two lengthy stories share a sexual energy that one rarely finds. The author uses descriptive language to imbue both stories with considerable erotic intensity. Both stories are quite heavy, and thus probably not to everyone's taste, and are saddled with the flaw (to my taste) that the victims are enthusiastically (and unrealistically) consensual. But even given what I would view as those structural "flaws", they are very well written indeed in terms of sado-erotic 'punch'.

(I hasten to add that in real life all "victims" should be consensual -- the dark non-consensual corners that I (we) explore here should remain the stuff of fantasy)

Librarian in Bondage -- this isn't Hemingway, but parts of this story really touched my prurient instincts. Thinking about this, it strikes me that one's frame of mind when reading an erotic story can play a much greater role in one's evaluation of it, than would be true with a conventional book, film etc. It's not unusual for me to read a story, and react with a 'WOW!' and then revisit it later only to be disappointed by its more or less obvious weaknesses. We are all writing on the quicksand of our readers' psyches, it seems to me.

Tom Justin has posted two stories here -- "Lady Ashley's Penance" was the name of one; the other one slips my mind. They are very similar -- don't read them back-to-back -- but have historical settings, which I like, and very nice descriptive language.

One afterthought -- I really enjoyed a story ("Coldwater") ? by Kallie Thomas (I hope I have that name right) -- an excellent psychological study. I intend to read more of her stories.


Yesterday I mentioned that I had read a story of Chum's whose name i couldn't remember - it was "Truth Be Told"



Chum: My biggest fear now (with my current story in progress at 150K and the end barely in sight) is that I may beat the interest out of future readers with too much explanatory content in my newfound zeal to create living people and clearly imagined surroundings in the minds of my readers.

Been there; done that. (Beat the interest out of readers, I mean)

In this forum, where there is so much competition for the reader's eye and libido, I suspect that it's very important that the first page or two be vivid. If one doesn't grab the reader's attention quickly, another author will. But perhaps I am unusually impatient in that respect -- comments, anyone? My suggestion would be to bring your expository material in gradually, rather than front-loading it into the first chapter; flashbacks are useful for this purpose.

By the same token I have come to think that the synopsis is very important in terms of attracting readership - or at least 'openership'. Especially for a first-time writer.

Continued success,

Boccaccio

[BDSM_Tourguide]

I try to review to any story that I find to be interesting and well-written. In fact, there's one right now that I read yesterday that I forgot to write a review. So, if you impress me with your work, I will let you know about it.

[Tiger]

The number of reivews is pretty low comparing to the number of readers. Here are some numbers: there are average 8000 unique readers who actually open the story text pages. There are over 2000 reviews, over 7000 registered users! And there are still more users registered everyday than the number of reviews written.

It's no surprise to get more email responses than reviews on this site. It may be because it's easier to write an email. But what most people are doing on this site? They read the stories, enjoy it or not, then leave without a trace left. That's a sad fact, especially for you authors.

I am very impressed by boccaccio's opinion: when we blame other readers not writing email/review at all, what did we do! There are over 400 authors here. If we all drop a line to the author after we read the stories, the author would be flooded by emails/reviews.

Anyway, if any of you guys can think of any idea to promote readers to write reviews, please let me know.

Jinn
Webmaster

[Chum]

Jinn said, snip:

Anyway, if any of you guys can think of any idea to promote readers to write reviews, please let me know.

Jinn
Webmaster

How about putting a notice at the end of each story:

IMPORTANT NOTICE TO READER:: If you took the time to read this far we know who you are. You are required to post a review (and an e-mail to the author would be nice, but not required).
WARNING: Failure to follow the above instruction automatically causes server to forward your address to Spam Central with a note that advises you just won the Lottery.

JUST MY IDEA OF A JOKE (way too much time on my hands)

Actually, now that I have 4 nice e-mails (I'm running out of frames) I'd be happy if they said which story they liked. Would it be workable to say in the author's note that a reference to the story title would be appreciated?

chum

[Marcus]

And there are still more users registered everyday than the number of reviews written.

That's amazing.

My ideas:

This is what I call 'you know what you should do' syndrome. This is where Person A thinks of an idea off the top of his head in about ten seconds and expects Person B has to spend the next X months carrying out the idea!

First find out why reviews to readership is very low. It is by any standard, even though it is very easy to make reviews.

What can sometimes make reviews difficult is knowing what is a fair points rating. An idea would be to give a better guide to rating. Here's the general idea.

1. Total s**t in terms of content, with writing skills bordering on illiteracy
2. Poor. Doesn't work very well. Poorly written
3. A mediocre story with barely acceptable grammar
4. OK, but lacks any real quality
5. OK, but has some promise, the author could improve it.
6. Somewhat enjoyable. Acceptable writing skills
7. Good. Was worth reading.
8. Very good, in terms of internet fiction. Recommendable.
9. High Quality. Very enjoyable and well written.
10. Excellent. Could compete well with published authors.

Or what about multiple choice comments so people can choose a comment that best reflects their opinion?

[boccaccio2000g]

Marcus has some good ideas there, I think.

There are a few issues that have prevented me from writing more reviews.

As Marcus says, no one is quite sure what an '8' means, for example; a great many of the reviews have been '9's and '10's (too many, by my standards). So if one gives an '8' to a 'very good' story (in Marcus's words) one is in effect, saying that it is less meritorious than all of the inflated '9's and '10's out there. Nothing can be done about the reviews that have already been done (in the past, I suspect, one did not have to register, to review?? -- the old stories have far more reviews than the new ones). But the grades should mean something -- 7 or 8 should be a 'good' score; and 9's and 10's should be reserved for stories that are really outstanding.

Obviously, everyone has his/her own standards as to writing quality, preferences as to subject matter, and concerns as to spelling, grammar, etc -- a story that might excite the heck out of you might bore me to tears or squick me to nausea. So this will never be an exact science.

Most importantly perhaps, the majority of us don't want to hurt someone's feelings; every writer has to start somewhere, and some may have expended a lot of energy producing a work that you or I might tedious. And at this stage in the author's 'career' the result might be the best of which he/she is capable, even thougè there is room for considerable improvement.

Marcus' multiple choice idea has merit, too. There are so many ingredients to writing and virtually no one will excel at all of them, but many will be strong in at least one area; it would be good to give credit for 'A' while suggesting the author needs improvement on 'B'. Some off the top of my head possibilities:

1 Content Gripping; very interesting plot, characters,
Interesting
Didn't even bother to finish it

2 Originality Original settings, characters, action
Only fair
Have seen it all before many times

3 Writing Skills First-rate use of language
Good, readable prose
Fair -- could have been significantly better
Poor -- Syntax, spelling, grammar very weak

4 Erotic quotient Really punched my buttons
Fair -- Liked the idea, but not the execution
Not my cup of tea

5 Sustained interest Read every word; look forward to more
Fair -- read a lot; may read more later
Poor -- Gave up after a few pages

This is all off the top of my head (and it strikes me that the #4 should definitely be #1 ;-). Would a format like this (together with a definition of the overall 1-10 rankings something akin to Marcus' idea) be of interest? Perhaps there should be more than 3-4 choices?

Or is this too much like a report card? I like this notion because I frequently see a story that has a very interesting idea, or works erotically (for me), even though it is seriously flawed in other respects. It would be nice to give credit for the things the author DID succeed at -- everyone deserves credit for trying.

OTOH, perhaps this format would take up way too much band width -- I know nothing of such things. Jinn?

Boccaccio

[BDSM_Tourguide]

... that people just want to read the stories. Hard as it might be to imagine, many probably read for the 'porn/erotica' content. So, they read our stories, get their jollies off and split. We have served aour purpose for these people. I just wish the more serious people would leave reviews and emails more often.

My story has been read over 7000 times, but only reviewed 5 times. I'm not a glutton for admiration or anything, but I do like knowing what people think and what can be improved. But 5 reviews in 7000 readers is like .002%

So, yes, I agree that we might could think of something to improve this statistic.

[Tiger]

Thanks to Marcus, now we have a better idea about what 1-10 numbers mean. I updated the review page and hopefully that can help readers choose the right rating numbers.

The multiple choice is also a good idea. But that could add more work to reviewers. So let's make it optional: a reviewer can either choose at least one of the multiple choices, or write a review, or do both. (This won't add much more bandwidth usage. Just need some programming work. But I think it shouldn't be too hard) In this way, we give reviewers a choice to do a review simply by serveral mouse clicks without typing a single word. Then we may need to think a good list of ingredients in writing. boccaccio gave us a good example, but should we think of more?

Give me your thought about this multiple choice idea.

Jinn

[boccaccio2000g]

Jinn: "Thanks to Marcus, now we have a better idea about what 1-10 numbers mean. I updated the review page and hopefully that can help readers choose the right rating numbers."

Wow - when Marcus talks, people listen! Quick work, Jinn!

I did a review just now, before coming into the forum, and noticed the new descriptions opposite each ranking -- a big step forward I think.

Tourgide: "Hard as it might be to imagine, many probably read for the 'porn/erotica' content."

Ya think? ;-)


Tourguide: "So, they read our stories, get their jollies off and split. We have served our purpose for these people. "

Sure; but it is no doubt good form to thank a prostitute.
And we work longer hours for less pay. :-)

That being said, I'm under no illusions that reader feedback will ever be substantial. But tiny would be better than infinitesimal.

Tourgide: "My story has been read over 7000 times, but only reviewed 5 times. I'm not a glutton for admiration or anything, but I do like knowing what people think and what can be improved."

I don't know when your story was posted; but if it was within the last six months, I would guess that your 'review ratio' is better than most -- your story was evidently very praiseworthy.

Boccaccio

[boccaccio2000g]

Regarding reviews -- Is everyone aware that one can, by clicking on the Reviewer's name, bring up all the reviews that person has written? I did not realize this until just now. Some of our reviewers are quite prolific (Hyphen 666, Engineer, and I'm sure there are a number of others). This is an interesting way to get a good overview of some of the stories presented here, and also to get an idea of the reviewer's grading methods, preferences as to subject matter etc. (For example if one were to get an '8' from someone who is not shy about dishing out 2's and 4's, that would be more impressive than getting an '8' from someone who habitually dispenses 9's and 10's.

Boccaccio

[Marcus]

Yipes! I was just innocently going about my business of posting another mean review when I saw my rating system offered to me!

Thanks to Marcus, now we have a better idea about what 1-10 numbers mean. I updated the review page and hopefully that can help readers choose the right rating numbers.

I should add I 'fleshed out' the rating system as I wrote the email thus many of rating descriptions could be improved with a little more input from you guys.

My only concern is that the reader has to be writing a review before they notice the difference!

However once they see it, maybe they'll feel more confident about writing other reviews.

Great work Jinn! We like to keep the webmaster busy!

[S_Couture]

I am such an idiot! I never even knew there were reviews! Thanks to all who reviewed my stories.

[Marcus]

I'm a little reluctant to share this fact but here goes:

If you want more email responses write under a female pseudonym. Unfortunately it's a bit tricky finding a suitable reply to some of the emails!

[Pooka]

My all in one reply!

I think the new rating system thought up by Marcus and implemented by Jinn is great! I found this site just a day or two before it changed. LOL! I remember wondering if I had simply missed it with the first few reviews I tried.

It is helpful because sometimes the story idea was excellent, but the actual writing was not good (or downright distracting re spelling and grammar) or the story would be well written but the idea so old and overdone I didn't know exactly how to rate them. I tend to focus on more positive comments and want my reviews to reflect that. Having the text box to add comments at least allowed me to do that before the number system was in place.

As a writer myself, I know how important comments can be. I write reviews for the stories that are worth my time to comment on. Many don't fit that criteria but I really only get to read a couple a day if I'm lucky so it will take a while to find the good ones. I tend to just stick to what is listed in the daily update and the occasional random pick and even so, I'm still working from the first or second update as it appears on the front page. LOL!

The nice thing about this forum is that now I'll look for the authors that have posted here for their stories ... *grin*

Pooka

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Unfortunately, I didn't get past the story descriptions for the August 15 update. I might have just been in a weird mood the last few days, but nothing seemed very interesting to me. I know reading and reviewing a story in the wrong frame of mind is probably not the best thing for productivity, so I skipped reading and worked on a little writing.

[Marcus]

Pooka

It's great to have your input in the forum and glad to know the rating system works for you. I hope you'll stick around and continue to contribute.

Giving the new stories a fair review can help others know whether it would be worth their time reading. I try to give reviews to new stories that are without a review for this reason.

The nice thing about this forum is that now I'll look for the authors that have posted here for their stories ... *grin*

That's assuming they write under the same name

[BDSM_Tourguide]

... only without so many of those words. LOL

[Tiger]

Originally posted by boccaccio2000g
Regarding reviews -- Is everyone aware that one can, by clicking on the Reviewer's name, bring up all the reviews that person has written? I did not realize this until just now. Some of our reviewers are quite prolific (Hyphen 666, Engineer, and I'm sure there are a number of others). This is an interesting way to get a good overview of some of the stories presented here, and also to get an idea of the reviewer's grading methods, preferences as to subject matter etc. (For example if one were to get an '8' from someone who is not shy about dishing out 2's and 4's, that would be more impressive than getting an '8' from someone who habitually dispenses 9's and 10's.

Boccaccio

I think you got the top reviewers of this site already. Hyphen666 has the most reviews. And if you take a good look of the reviews he gave, you will notice that he never hesitated to give a rating of 1 or 2. And he always tells you why he thinks a story good/bad. None of his reviews is "good story" type of review.

Here are the top reviewers:

hyphen666
boccaccio2000g
RubbrSpatula
ownedgirl
Engineer
jonathan
trusser
kaleun76
Jacen

Thanks to all reviewers!

[Pooka]

Originally posted by Marcus
Pooka

That's assuming they write under the same name

Oh yes! That's right. My husband posted our story (Multi-electrode imaging analysis) under Dr. Wingate actually, because Dr. Wingate is the evil herione of the story and a bit of a private joke between us.

I didn't realize we would be posting here when I created my ID and generally with BDSM sites, we just use our one 'special' account. ;-)

But I'm finding much more than a story site here so I have to figure out what to do re accounts and posting here. I just didn't know that it would be so interactive but I love it!

Pooka (aka Dr. Wingate

[Marcus]

But I'm finding much more than a story site here so I have to figure out what to do re accounts and posting here. I just didn't know that it would be so interactive but I love it!

Oh yes. It's a world by itself here

In my view, if you like to stay active on the site you should consider a reviewer ID, writer ID, and forum ID.

Cowardly? deceitful? I don't think so. It simply means there is less likelihood of causing offence. Offensive behaviour and language on forums is such a turn-off for me.

For example, if you were wrote a stinging critique of a story and gave it a low rating it could sour your rapport with that writer on the forum. It happens that I gave the Dr Wingate story a rating before you posted on the forum so now I think 'does she think I'm mean/ignorant?' . Maybe, she'll write an even lower review to my story! (Luckily my review was on of the positive ones! Pheww!)

Ok, that would be juvenile behavior, although let's face it, not beyond the bounds of possibility for any of us. There is always the risk of taking something too personally, it's simply in our nature!

Bearing in mind the content of many stories, I don't think a person should be categorized in the forum by what he or she writes. If others feel there is no separation between their stories, reviews and forum posts, then I truly admire them.

[boccaccio2000g]

Marcus wrote "For example, if you were wrote a stinging critique of a story and gave it a low rating it could sour your rapport with that writer on the forum...

Ok, that would be juvenile behavior, although let's face it, not beyond the bounds of possibility for any of us. There is always the risk of taking something too personally, it's simply in our nature!

Bearing in mind the content of many stories, I don't think a person should be categorized in the forum by what he or she writes. If others feel there is no separation between their stories, reviews and forum posts, then I truly admire them."
*********************
This train of thought has concerned me, too. My reviews have ranged the gamut from 1-10 and I have been tempted at times to score a little higher out of concern for people's feelings. I am sure that the people's stories which (in my opinion, only) didn't succeed so well are just as nice, and just as sensitive, as those whose stories I preferred.

But inflating the grades is unfair, isn't it, to the authors who have gone the extra mile, who have spent extra hours making their sentences flow nicely, their language crisp, et? If we give everyone 9's and 10's, the scores won't mean anything to anyone.

My impression it that in the past -- most people (Hyphen 666 being a notable exception) didn't review the stories they didn't care for -- they just went on to the next one, hoping for something more to their liking. And that is certainly polite, but not very helpful to the next potential reader. So, since I suggested that we writers take the lead in writing reviews, I've reviewed almost all of the stories that I've read. And read more than formerly (and my writing has slowed as a result!).

To those who found my reviews overly critical - it's only my opinion, and my taste -- don't take it too much to heart, if you were disappointed. If my review criticized grammar, spelling, syntax and so on -- (which is usually the reason for low scores, I hope you will take that as constructive. All of those things can be corrected with a little extra effort. Some of the writers I have 'panned' have wonderful imaginations for conceiving stories; and no one wants to stifle that. But you would do your readers a great service by taking a bit more time with story A before moving on to story B.

[Pooka]

Originally posted by boccaccio2000g

This train of thought has concerned me, too. My reviews have ranged the gamut from 1-10 and I have been tempted at times to score a little higher out of concern for people's feelings. I am sure that the people's stories which (in my opinion, only) didn't succeed so well are just as nice, and just as sensitive, as those whose stories I preferred.

I like to be objective about reviewing stories and so don't review stories that don't interest me or that I didn't enjoy. However, if there is a story that I did enjoy but needed work, I would say so, but not in the manner I've seen some reviewers do it. I know I would want an honest review because I'm here to sharpen my skills, learn what turns people on and advance my writing skills. Being told something is good just to avoid hurt feelings is worse than hurt feelings -- it's undermined my attempts at writing!

But inflating the grades is unfair, isn't it, to the authors who have gone the extra mile, who have spent extra hours making their sentences flow nicely, their language crisp, et? If we give everyone 9's and 10's, the scores won't mean anything to anyone.

Inflating grades is unfair, for everyone, especially those that receive them! And it does penalize those that have done excellent work. You lose both ways.

My impression it that in the past -- most people (Hyphen 666 being a notable exception) didn't review the stories they didn't care for -- they just went on to the next one, hoping for something more to their liking. And that is certainly polite, but not very helpful to the next potential reader. So, since I suggested that we writers take the lead in writing reviews, I've reviewed almost all of the stories that I've read. And read more than formerly (and my writing has slowed as a result!).

That raises an interesting issue, that of our obligation to both readers and other writers. However, I would find it hard to objectively review a story if the story is not one I find interesting. If anything, let the reviewers each focus on the kinds of stories they like, by genre or story code. I could never rate a snuff story highly no matter how well it was written. The subject is totally non-erotic to me and I could not give a balanced review.

Having your own writing suffer as you've worked on reviews doesn't seem a positive solution either. I personally would rather see you write stories than write reviews. You are in effect sacrificing your own writing in order to give reviews to potential readers who may or may not be interested? Don't forget, some people read just to get off. I've even done that. *grin* I rarely read reviews because I know I can make my own judgment about the story and rarely does my opinion match that of the reviewers. I say, let those that WANT to review review and those that want to write should write. Once it becomes a chore, everything will suffer.

To those who found my reviews overly critical - it's only my opinion, and my taste -- don't take it too much to heart, if you were disappointed. If my review criticized grammar, spelling, syntax and so on -- (which is usually the reason for low scores, I hope you will take that as constructive. All of those things can be corrected with a little extra effort. Some of the writers I have 'panned' have wonderful imaginations for conceiving stories; and no one wants to stifle that. But you would do your readers a great service by taking a bit more time with story A before moving on to story B.

Exactly. If one is adult enough to post a story here, then one must be correspondingly adult enough to have constructive conversations with the readers and audience.

Which takes me to how to review a story ...

It's hardly helpful to get scathing reviews with no content. It's easy to just pan anything for whatever reasons, it's a bit harder to offer praise for good work, and encouragement or examples on the faults of the story. We aren't professional writers here and I personally know where my own weaknesses in writing are. I want someone to notice these and pass on that information because sometimes, I do overlook some things in edit after edit. It happens. That's why an entire profession exists ... that of editors. *grin*

In my own case, being given a low rating because it was the introduction was a waste of my time and the reviewers. I honestly hadn't expected any reviews until other chapters appeared. I was more curious if something other than a quick wanking story was wanted here and that is what I asked for feedback on. Being told that my attention to detail was lacking, was a positive thing for me, though Marcus, I was hoping to have one example pointed out so that I could 'see' it and check the remainder of the chapters for similar lapses.

I know I tend to forget the details and often, I have to incorporate what my husband has written as well. We work on different chapters and often have to spend time comparing the detail to make things 'match up' but it's fun to do.

So, that was my own long winded way of saying honest reviews are essential, even 'negative' reviews can be positive and let's be careful that we don't make review writing a chore that will ultimately make the quality of both writing and reviewing suffer.

I don't comment on really bad stories. It isn't worth my time -- especially in the case where they have not used readable English and grammar. I don't mind the occasional lapse, typo, incorrect word, but when the entire story looks like it has been written by a third grader, what's the point in commenting? If they didn't take the time to do that, then I don't have the time to comment. Some have been atrocious and no comment of mine will make a difference.

Pooka

[Pooka]

Originally posted by Marcus
[B]

In my view, if you like to stay active on the site you should consider a reviewer ID, writer ID, and forum ID.

Cowardly? deceitful? I don't think so. It simply means there is less likelihood of causing offence. Offensive behaviour and language on forums is such a turn-off for me.

None of the above for me please, just too confusing for me! LOL! I'm already getting all confused with having the two IDs. I'll make one my husband's and keep Pooka for me.

I guess I am not as concerned about causing offense. I am not the verbally abusive type and don't tolerate it from anyone else, though like you, I don't think it has a place on any forum and it is a huge turn-off for me as well. I simply do not comprehend some of the 'discussions' I've seen on the Net. It's become one huge insane asylum with little pockets of rationality here and there. *grin*

For example, if you were wrote a stinging critique of a story and gave it a low rating it could sour your rapport with that writer on the forum. It happens that I gave the Dr Wingate story a rating before you posted on the forum so now I think 'does she think I'm mean/ignorant?' . Maybe, she'll write an even lower review to my story! (Luckily my review was on of the positive ones! Pheww!)

You know, there should be some kind of review guide we could look to for how to write effective reviews.

What is our goal in reviewing a story? To attack the writer for being so stupid and belittling him? Or is it to let future readers have an understanding of what to expect, to save them time and effort?

In my book, if we bother reviewing, it should be so that readers can save some time by knowing if the story has merit.

With BDSM stuff, there's several layers. Story codes are quite useful for me in knowing whether or not a story will interest me.

I like slow build-up, sexual tension, intelligent and strong characters, hot sex, unique and interesting tortures, among other things.

These are the things I comment on and so far, I've only reviewed those stories that met that criteria and I've explained my high rating. Hopefully when readers read what I wrote about that story, they will be able to see why it appealed to me and be able to decide if their tastes coincide with mine.

Kink generates too much emotion to review those stories that don't appeal to the reviewer. I simply could not rate a story properly if it contained certain elements. *shudder*

However, a story with promise is another matter and I would comment on that, without trying to destroy the writer in the process. There are as many ways to point out negative aspects in a positive way as there are ways to point out the negative with negative -- the goal is what has to be kept in mind. What is our goal?

To belittle writers or to inform our readers?
Both? *grin* I know, believe me I know there were a few stories where all I could do was roll my eyes and wonder if the writer had had any education at all. But those are obvious stories that most would avoid anyway. Considering that the search mechanism will do searches on number of reviews (and readers would assume these are the stories that were interesting because of the number of reviews) it seems better to not give reviews to really poor stories. I've done those kinds of searches and it was not helpful to have stories come up with a handful of reviews, all scathingly negative. I had somehow thought that reviews were only done on stories of at least medicore quality.

Ok, that would be juvenile behavior, although let's face it, not beyond the bounds of possibility for any of us. There is always the risk of taking something too personally, it's simply in our nature!

LOL! I quite agree! But hey, we're also big enough to get over it too. It's a passing thing. I'm here to learn, practice, and learn how to put polish on my stories. Hopefully my ego can withstand a few negative comments, though I would prefer them to be constructive rather than simply destructive with no content.

Bearing in mind the content of many stories, I don't think a person should be categorized in the forum by what he or she writes. If others feel there is no separation between their stories, reviews and forum posts, then I truly admire them.

Why thank you! *grin* I love being admired.

I don't think there should be a dichotomy between reviewing, forum posting and writing.

But then, I haven't been doing this that long so let me get back to you on that in about 6 months. *grin*

Pooka

[Marcus]

Boccaccio wrote: But inflating the grades is unfair, isn't it, to the authors who have gone the extra mile, who have spent extra hours making their sentences flow nicely, their language crisp, et? If we give everyone 9's and 10's, the scores won't mean anything to anyone.

For those that are obsessed with score, they can always rate their own stories, and many do that!! I much prefer seeing detailed comments, where people take the time to write something meaningful instead of 'great' or 'good story'.

Pooka wrote: Being told that my attention to detail was lacking, was a positive thing for me, though Marcus, I was hoping to have one example pointed out so that I could 'see' it and check the remainder of the chapters for similar lapses.

OK, here's my explanation, which might make more sense. Hope you don't mind it appearing in the forum. Maybe 'attention to detail' was not the best way of putting it. It's more that I felt the dialogue raced along without giving a reader, or at least me (a slow-medium reader), the chance to absorb the details of the story. I've read chapters 2 & 3 and am enjoying your writing but the same still applies, my mind is probably runs a bit slower than yours

None of the above for me please, just too confusing for me! LOL! I'm already getting all confused with having the two IDs. I'll make one my husband's and keep Pooka for me.

As long as we can keep Pooka in the forum, I don't mind about the rest!

Currently the forum seems to have a rare civility and humour even when discussing emotive topics. Long may it continue.

[Pooka]

Originally posted by Marcus

OK, here's my explanation, which might make more sense. Hope you don't mind it appearing in the forum. Maybe 'attention to detail' was not the best way of putting it. It's more that I felt the dialogue raced along without giving a reader, or at least me (a slow-medium reader), the chance to absorb the details of the story. I've read chapters 2 & 3 and am enjoying your writing but the same still applies, my mind is probably runs a bit slower than yours

I don't mind talking about here at all, I thought that this is what this particular forum was for.

And you know, you are right! In thinking back to how the story evolved between my husband and myself, I knew that I wanted to get to the 'meat' of it quickly, but had to set the scene. Setting the scene is hard for me to do, yet, I like to give clues in the process and so can't rightly skip it.

On the one hand, I don't want to reveal what is really happening at Yawla just yet, I want people to wonder if Dr. Wingate and her husband Dr. Jones are really evil, or just innocent scientists doing their thing ... with perhaps Trinity corrupting them. *grin*

I'm running into a timing issue I think. I often write too slow, or too fast. I'm having a tough time finding a good middle ground that works for the pace of the story. In some ways, I want to jump right to the meat of it, but there is such a psychological factor I don't want to overlook. LOL!

Thanks! I know I don't want it to rush along as I myself like to savor the experiences, especially when they are so appealing to me personally.

That's excellent feedback and I appreciate it!

Time to go read chapter four and check the pacing of it before I post it!

Pooka

[Chum]

Pooka

You mentioned having trouble finding a good pace as far as introducing characters.

I suspect most people who read this forum, and often this includes me, are looking for a story with high erotic intensity. I'm sure I've given up on some good stories just because I wasn't in the mood to engross myself in understanding who the people were, even though I know this would enhance the reading experience.

When I was editing my last story, "Dare to grow," it occurred to me that most people who opened the story would fall out in the first couple of pages, and few would probably make it to the end. But sometimes a story just won't come together in a way that appeals to everyone.

Having only published stories for the last couple weeks, it would be hard to express how grateful I have been for the handful of e-mails, and most especially for the two reviews the last story got. It it's nice to know that at least two people stuck it out to the end and liked it enough to encourage others to do the same.

I admire authors who can publish without feedback or interaction with others, but I'm not one of them.

Chum

[Marcus]

Chum wrote: I suspect most people who read this forum, and often this includes me, are looking for a story with high erotic intensity. I'm sure I've given up on some good stories just because I wasn't in the mood to engross myself in understanding who the people were, even though I know this would enhance the reading experience.

What's that old saying? Never underestimate the intelligence of the reader! Or should that be Overestimate? I can't remember!

I'm sure there are many site visitors that enjoy a 'good read' as well as the spicy stuff and you can include me in that number. Maybe I'm weird, but I like learning something from a story, whether it be a new word, something about a place/organisation or just new way of tormenting a woman . In fact, thanks to the information gleaned from Dr. Wingate’s story, I’ve nearly built my own Multi-electrode and Imaging Analyzer which is currently cluttering up the dining room table!

As an occasional writer here, one thing I am learniîg is to write for my readers: The ones that enjoy what I write. Has there ever been a writer that appeals to everybody? Not even Shakespeare! So why worry about that.

Chum, I suggest you multiply your good reviews and emails by X and give your readers more of what they and you like. (Detailed mathematical formula available on request)

This may sound repetitive, but what the hell....

To all members and guests! If you like somebody's work send them an email or review their story to let them know. To make it even easier you can cut and paste the following.

Dear writer I enjoyed your story. Please keep up the good work.

Regards, Marcus