"Barely Submissive"- A Question of Being

[jeanne]

jeanne I don't think anyone could have said it better, you summed up submission, let the Dom decide what is perfect, course the Dom must know you well and value you beyond anything else in his life. Then his perfect will be what you both want and need.

Sir_Russell, thank you for reminding me of that statement, as I have been struggling lately with fear of not being perfect. By my definition, not his.

My only request of a sub/slave that is etched in stone is that she shows me the respect that I have earned, nothing more nothing less.

Seems reasonable to me.

BTW - can I get in the "just in case" line too?

[jeanne]

delia, thanks for your thoughtful response. Having spent only a small amount of time with him and staring an upcoming extended rendevous in the face, I find that nerves are overtaking my senses - to my own detriment. It's good to be reminded that he chose me for a reason.

[Sir_Russell]

jeanne I am honored and certainly but again remember why you offered your gift to him and take steps not to turn into a morgan. Remember that it is all about 3 words, Respect, Honor, and Pride. Have them for yourself and him and he will have them for you and himself.

Any relationship in my opinion lacking any of these three is doomed.

[Sir_Russell]

delia your right in that attitude and it shows that you understand those words too. Simple words that mean more then anything else in the world

[jeanne]

And always ask yourself this: Is what I am doing going to please him?
If you remember that, you'll always do the right thing.

Remember that it is all about 3 words, Respect, Honor, and Pride. Have them for yourself and him and he will have them for you and himself.

These words are what I needed to hear today, soothing raw nerves. I feel like I just got a nice, reassuring hug. Thank you both.

And that's the end of my little panic attack,
jeanne

[Sir_Russell]

delia is very right in her advice.

I am leaving a relationship that with a woman that I loved because she has a trust issue that I am no longer willing to deal with. Trust is part of both honor and respect and to love someone without that is impossible.

The heart of D/s or M/s is about knowing that the other person means more to you then your own wellbeing.

[Flaming_Redhead]

I am leaving a relationship that with a woman that I loved because she has a trust issue that I am no longer willing to deal with. Trust is part of both honor and respect and to love someone without that is impossible.

Awwwwww I'm very sad to hear that! I know that for me I can love someone without trusting them completely. Don't ask....I'm totally fucked up. Anyway, I won't meddle in your business or tell you to stay because I don't know the details. However, I have trust issues which I'm still trying to overcome, and it has taken my dom 6 months to get to the point where he doesn't see me as "barely" submissive. For months and months, I've resisted and been contrary at every turn, and he's tried everything to bring me under control. First month, it was telling me he was disappointed. Next month, it was lectures about disrespect. Then, the next month, he let his anger show and cut me to pieces with his words. Lastly, he withheld from me any attempt at dominance and pretty much ignored me. The last one gave me plenty to time to think about everything he said. It was a terrible time. I'm still surprised that he didn't leave. The last couple of months, I've been a good girl. I'm desperately trying to prove that I want this and can do this. He's noticed, but I can tell he's still a bit wary....which kinda hurts....but I brought it on myself. Not giving up on me means a lot, though, because abandonment is a huge fear of mine, even though I kinda bring it about. I know....I'm fucked up! lol

I'm not sure where I was going with this, exactly. You seem like a very intelligent dom who knows his business. I'm just sorry that morgan can't seem to find the will to swallow her fear and just go for it, especially after all you've done for her. The guilt would eat me alive.

[Sir_Russell]

WE have been together for almost 3 years and I have done all of that and more, before her move here we were good together she had put most of that aside. Now that I am here it is very different and back to the begining or worse.

I don't do this without a lot of personal pain and deep regret that I am not capable of overcoming the problems

[Wedjat]

I'm sorry about your pain, Sir. Wish I could be more helpful. I'm still figuring out how submissive I am myself, and appreciate all of your time and friendship very much.

On another track, though, I just found this particular thread the other day, and have been thinking about the basic premise here. The fact is, some people MAY just be 'barely submissive' and have different needs from someone who is extremely submissive. In ANY characteristic in ANY group of humans the only thing one can count on is that there are going to be differences between them and a RANGE of differences from very strong to barely there. For example, consider homosexuality; it's fairly easy to see that there are extremely hetero as well as extremely homosexual people in the world as well as a full range between the two of varying degrees of bisexuality. Why not consider that Dominance and submission characteristics can be the same? Some ARE barely submissive and would be a bad fit with a completely dominant personality. Just like in vanilla relationships, there are characteristics that are a bad fit and might not work over the long run and some that fit together extremely well.

I hope I've not spoken out of turn, since I am not only not sure of how submissive I am myself - I'm really just starting to discover and explore that in my own life, but new to the forums. It is also true that people can change and grow - kinda sad if they don't in life. I agree totally with Sir_Russell that in ANY relationship the parties need to communicate and respect each other, in order to grow together. 'nuff said.

[Ozme52]

First, one can't speak out of turn here... especially if offering an opinion. Every perspective teaches us all.

And of course, all human activity falls on a continuum. There are no absolutes although we, as human beings, often try to create boundaries and differentiation with out definitions.

Now as to 'barely' submissive, I would contend that some feel just a little submissive until they meet the right dominant. When you get chemistry, sparks fly and your submission may well overwhelm you.

Likewise, a somewhat dominant personality may blossom into a full bored uber-dom (pardon the hyperbole) with the right submissive in his "clutches".

[Wedjat]

Thank you for your coments OZ, I've been 'lurking' on the site for a bit and I have read some of your comments before and respect your opinions.

Thanks for commenting on the continuum idea (THAT was the word that was escaping me when I wrote that earlier section. Sheesh) That was exactly what I was trying to get across. It just seemed that upon reading this thread that a lot of people were saying 'all or nothing'.

[Sir_Russell]

Wedjat,

Most of us that are experienced in the life try to preach that it is different for each person and couple. There aren't any rules about how you must be in this life only personal guidelines and goals.

What I think you are hearing is a lot of submissive doubting themselves, I call it subbie disease, and most of the best ones do. None of us are perfect but the difference here is that the best of all of us strive to be the Best we can be to improve ourselves.

I agree you may never get to be the submissive that will please the very hard core Dom but I know that you can please most of the Doms if you decide it is for you.

[Ozme52]

Thank you for your coments OZ, I've been 'lurking' on the site for a bit and I have read some of your comments before and respect your opinions.

I appreciate the sentiment. Thx.

[Wedjat]

Sir, I'm not thinking about most Doms. : )

[Sir_Russell]

lol, well I am not hardcore at all, I love life and the Life believe it is best when shared with someone that also knows who she is.

[Wedjat]

Thank you, Sir. I'd like to think that at my age I at least have SOME idea who I am : ) Finding out new things, and trying new things should always be part of life, though, I believe. I'd imagine you have some ideas along those lines. : )

[Sir_Russell]

Wedjat, how would you know if your truly submissive now. Have you really experienced its joys and the rewards your Dom can give you? Have you developed the trust for that Dom that allows you the freedom to release control? Has anyone made you feel compelled to kneel at his feat and wait to see how you can please him.

Till you have these you will not know if you really are. When you know that bringing him a smile or making him know the joy of you is really what you live for and at that time your sub will know it is real.

[Wedjat]

Thanks again,Sir. No I haven't, to answer your questions, but you've got me thinking about it, and THAT's new for me, as you know. I do like making you smile already : )

[Sir_Russell]

I am growing quite fond of you Wedjat of course you already knew that. We all start our journeys being novices. I do enjoy the training of a newbee sort of like finding a virgin. If she is willing and wants what I offer great. The rewards then are worth the effort and work.

Training means different things to different people to me it means that we have reached the first stages. When I train reward is about 90% of it and 10% punishment that is real and meant to make it a choice of become better or leave. Learning how to please me is only a small part of that training, it includes how to show respect, how to get what you want and need from and stay submissive, how to find pleasure and joy in being mine. There is plenty more but it also varies based on who the sub is at heart.

[Wedjat]

Fond of you too, Sir : ) A lot of that sounds good, but so hard to tell from a distance. One part I'm not sure about is where you said " how to get what you want and need from and stay submissive". I'm not sure what I might want and need from it. Still trying to figure that out myself. *sigh* Wish I could tell you more. Talk soon, I hope.

[Sir_Russell]

should have read from me. Learn how to do that and a sub/slave life becomes one of pleasure

[tessa]

Sir Russell, my very best to you. ~lil' hug~

I'm totally fucked up. *lots of good words that tessa didn't feel led to comment on* I know....I'm fucked up! lol

Stop saying that! Please? We all have our fucked up issues. Just because we do have such issues doesn't mean we have to label ourselves in this manner. Yes, this includes you, sweetie. ~hugs~

In ANY characteristic in ANY group of humans the only thing one can count on is that there are going to be differences between them and a RANGE of differences from very strong to barely there.

Excellently stated! Thank you for presenting it like this.

First, one can't speak out of turn here... especially if offering an opinion.

I was going to say this to Wedjat, but now I'll just highlight Oz's words...save a few ketstrokes and still express myself. Thanks, Oz.

Every perspective teaches us all

Thanks again, Oz. Wise, wise words.

Now as to 'barely' submissive, I would contend that some feel just a little submissive until they meet the right dominant. When you get chemistry, sparks fly and your submission may well overwhelm you.
Likewise, a somewhat dominant personality may blossom into a full bored uber-dom (pardon the hyperbole) with the right submissive in his "clutches".

A perspective from which to learn. Thank you one more time, Oz. Gosh. been doing that quite a bit lately it seems.

I'm discovering, for myself at least, that it completely hinges on the matching of minds to make this D/s type relationship work. Some submissives crave the strict Dominant. Then there are others who appreciate the informal-ness certain Dominants prefer. Some Dominants need absolute subservience to find happiness, while others appreciate a different style of submission. It's when the two matches come together and strike into each other that blazes it all into the magic we all seek.

Brings a new perspective to "come on, baby, light my fire".

tessa

[Ozme52]

tessa... what else do you think you might learn from me?

[GreyJack]

An excellent thread and one I think that should be "required reading" for anyone in the Life, whether newbie, "just curious," or veteran because it gives such a deep and wide perspective of so many issues. Most importantly, it emphasizes the need for mutual trust and clear, open, emotional communication.

I find it amusing sometimes that people focus so much on opposites -- the strength of a Dominant, the weakness of the submissive. They take them as labels and ideals and try desperately sometimes to mold a real human being into a lifeless husk labeled "This" and "That." And then they feel they have failed if they don't conform to the ideal. If you expect perfection in another human being, you're involved in a shell game where you will never, ever find the hidden pea. Relationships are organic. They live in a mutually created "world" separate from ideals and catastrophes. No one is a perfect slave or sub and no one is a perfect Dom or Domme. But they are human and hopefully humane. Emotional closeness and even sentiment may make someone appear "as perfect as it gets." And why should'n't we be gloriously happy with that? Sure, strive to be more...but it has to be more "you" whatever that may mean at any given time. As imperfect humans, we can easily misinterpret one thing for another, trust for suspicion, concern for jealousy, and strength for weakness. Don't the participants in every relationship create mutually accepted definitions of what these things are and mean? So should it be with the arbitrary terms "slave" "sub" "Master" "Domina" or whatever other terms you use to identify yourself by. Otherwise, we sink into dogma and cant and relationships become fossilized into lifeless rite and ritual. We're better than that. And our relationships can be far better than that. And, for Goddess' sake, put some fun into it, too. It's not weak to laugh or to cry or to feel your own frailty or take the occasional ego trip or even to be a little silly. It's human. It's life.

[Ayesha]

I had some immediate thoughts right away when I read the starter post. I hope I am not reiterating anything that has already been stated because there is so much in here already.

I have been there too with that struggle between self, strength, will and submission. I had a never ending need to try to force the other to prove they were worthy of my trust. I never even clued into the fact that I was not giving any trust to them either. Now there were people that were not worthy of that in the first place and thank god I found that there was people that were worth it.

Everyone has different dynamics in how they view BDSM, lifestyle, marriage and what a dom or sub means to them. I have been where I paid lip service to submission. Allowing the orders, obey without true desire, all the time feeling inner rebelliousness. I have refused to allow inner walls that I built to protect myself to drop and then I never could really feel what becoming open and vulnerable to another means. If you ever find that place once then you can go there again if you really allow yourself to believe that it will free you. I think any true Dom /Domme never desire a mindless doormat; a person who will give away submission to anyone is not valuing themselves so why would the Dom value it. A strong person that submits and gives themselves because they know what they are worth is well worth the journey if the Dom knows what he has.

Exploring the feelings and doubts the way you are is not an easy thing to do when most people would perhaps take it as some sort of failure. I think it is a sign of strength to struggle to understand your fears, how you are strong and how you want to become. I see a lot of people assume that to say you are a sub or a dom means you are instantly transformed into the perfect example. That is the farthest thing from the truth because it is a learning curve that is probably the hardest one to tackle and with the greater reward for you in the end.


I have been on the other side of that too. I had to deal with the feeling of having to lead when I was not sure how to step. I had learned a great deal about the weight of having the role in the eyes of another of being the all knowing and in charge person. I wonder if you had ever considered that the other person in your life feels just as uncertain at times as you do, that they are trying to be the Dom when maybe this is the first time they have ever explored what that means. I wonder if at times the pressure to just know how to be for them is also just as hard too. I also wonder if at times the appearance of inconsistent demands or attempts to be in charge lead to reactions born of frustration and uncertainty on the part of the dominate partner as well. It kind of puts a different spin on it when you try to be in the other shoes.

I hope this makes sense and is not too rambling...

[Wedjat]

tessa, thank you for the compliment - I'm new to the forums and it was very cool to be quoted in sombody else's comment for the first time. : )

Thank you Greyjack and Ayesha for your insights too. As a newbie to all of this, not just the forums, your well spoken (and definitely not rambling)thoughts are very welcome.

Parts of this life seem incredibly appealing, and parts are just plain scary to somebody coming into it for the first time, especially for the submissive. I know, Doms take risks emotionally too, but they still aren't risking being on the receiving end of an ER trip.

Personally, I tend to be too trusting, but having had to spend the last few years struggling to keep things together financially for me and my daughter after some REALLY sucky decisions made by my husband at the time, would make it hard, if not impossible, for me to ever just hand over decisions - at least those outside the bedroom- to anybody. Fortunately, some of these discussions are helping me see that it all comes down to what the individuals involved agree on. That's a huge thing for me - the communication in a good relationship, whether D/s or vanilla is going to make it or break it.

[jeanne]

And, for Goddess' sake, put some fun into it, too. It's not weak to laugh or to cry or to feel your own frailty or take the occasional ego trip or even to be a little silly. It's human. It's life.

Amen! I've recently discovered this very thing - he seems to enjoy my wit, my brain, my silliness as much as he enjoys my submission. Yay!

I think it is a sign of strength to struggle to understand your fears, how you are strong and how you want to become.

Absolutely true.

tessa, thank you for the compliment - I'm new to the forums and it was very cool to be quoted in sombody else's comment for the first time. : )

Parts of this life seem incredibly appealing, and parts are just plain scary to somebody coming into it for the first time, especially for the submissive. I know, Doms take risks emotionally too, but they still aren't risking being on the receiving end of an ER trip.

Wedjat - here you are - quoted again.

Just plain scary? Hell, yes! Both emotionally and physically. But, oh so worthwhile. Very worthwhile.

[Wedjat]

his-j, thanks for quote #2! I have to figure out how to do that : )

I appreciate everybody's comments, and it's all very enlightening. Still working on where I might fit in and what I might want in the long run. One of my biggest concerns is that I worry about losing myself, because, dammit! I like who I am now. I don't want somebody who thinks they have to change me. I do know that we change all the time and growth should be a part of life, and I'm looking to learn new things - and have new things done to me : ) I would like to grow together with someone. Does any of that make sense?

[jeanne]

his-j, thanks for quote #2! I have to figure out how to do that : )

I appreciate everybody's comments, and it's all very enlightening. Still working on where I might fit in and what I might want in the long run. One of my biggest concerns is that I worry about losing myself, because, dammit! I like who I am now. I don't want somebody who thinks they have to change me. I do know that we change all the time and growth should be a part of life, and I'm looking to learn new things - and have new things done to me : ) I would like to grow together with someone. Does any of that make sense?

Quoted again! And yes, it makes perfect sense to me - I too like myself - and it was a long road to get there. And I worried about being "changed". I hit the jackpot though - karma stepped in and put me in the path of one who likes me just the way I am, respects my brain, and values my submissiveness - without feeling the need to change me to fit some predetermined mold. Instead, he is helping me discover (or is it uncover) my submissive nature and is enjoying the journey with me. He's just my type and tells me that I am his, too. I truly am blessed to have him in my life today. And to top it all off with whipped cream and a cherry? The things we do - the things he does with me and to me - well, I can only say OMG, as in "OMG, that was amazing" or "OMG, please don't stop" and my favorite: "OMG, please, may I come again?" for the third or fourth or tenth time...it just got very warm in here, didn't it?

I hope you find that for yourself. I'm proof that it exists - the perfect match of need and desire.

Eternally grateful,
jeanne

[Ozme52]

his-j, thanks for quote #2! I have to figure out how to do that : )

Look at the bottom right corner of this or any other post. Press the 'quote' button and you're on your way. You'll note bounding [-quote-] and [-/quote-] tags (minus the hyphens) and you can add more of those to split a quote up and add your comments between different parts of the quote.

If you want to quote more than one person, click on the 'multi' button in each of the posts you want... and then go to the bottom and press 'reply'