your take on the difference between Top, Dom, or Master and bottom, sub and slave

[submissivewife]

My take on this life is that a Top without a bottom, a Dom without a sub or a Master without a slave (and for that matter the reverse is true for bottom, sub or slave) is not only a sad lonely being but no longer anything.

What you have said is so true, except the last four words....everyone is something, just incomplete.

subwife

[Sir_Russell]

lol my point is that a Dom without a sub has no way to be a Dom. Sad horrible experience that I have had a few times while searching for one that is a proper fit for us both

[learningtopleez]

But Sir Russell, did you not still consider yourself a Dom even during those times that you had no one? Yes, it can be very lonely, and sometimes sad, but I still consider myself submissive, even though I don't have a Dom right now. I am very happy being just me, and have found that I would rather be alone, than to just "play around," while waiting for the "one." It may mean that I will always be alone, but I refuse to settle for less.

just my two cents

[Sir_Russell]

Yes a part of me is all ways the Dom but you can't be a carpenter without wood.

I too have spent a lot of time without while finding my one again. During that time part of me was raging

[Tojo]

I'm afraid I can't see that if I didn't have a girl to play with that I wouln't be a Dom. I was always a Dom.

I'm happier now I've found someone or two, but if I lost both my girls, & all my friends & even my wife, I'd still be me.

Hey watch it with the carpenter analogy! I'm a retired carpenter, timber or no timber!

You ain't what you do, you are what you are IMO.

Tojo

[learningtopleez]

Yes a part of me is all ways the Dom but you can't be a carpenter without wood.

I too have spent a lot of time without while finding my one again. During that time part of me was raging

I think the part here that makes me wonder is, why would you be raging? And about what? Is it because you were without a sub? I have always thought that no other person can make me complete. I first have to be happy with myself, as I am, with no other. And I have to love me, then perhaps, love will find me. And I may be sad about it, but it never leaves a part of me raging. Sorry for going on and on, but I guess I am just curious.

And I agree with you Tojo, in that you aren't what you do, but what you are!

[Sir_Russell]

learningtopleez

hmm raging indicated my need and displeasure at being without. I still say that a either party without the opposite is strictly potential.

I also believe firmly that in the life and for the life the one we search for is the person that allows you to be whole, complete and this makes you happy. I am happy with me and like me very much alone but being with my one as I now am brings the "topping", if you will pardon my pun, like chocolate syrup on ice cream, otherwise why do we search for our one.

I too am quite a carpenter but again I can't carp without wood.

You learningtopleez are right though find the one that has what you crave, then be the best submissive possible. If that is your photo I bet your real problem is working through the wannabee crowd to find a couple of real ones.

ANYONE CAN OVERPOWER, BUT NOT MANY CAN INSPIRE
it is a quote I came up with last night and though it is about real Doms it is the same for real submissives.
ANYONE CAN SUBMIT, BUT NOT MANY CAN INSPIRE
that is a tribute to my morgan

[learningtopleez]

Thank you Sir Russel for making your opinion easier to understand! And if I do understand you correctly, finding the "one" is like having that chocolate syrup on your ice cream...it just makes everything better. Complete even.

And no, that isn't my pic....it would be nice, but it's just an avatar I found on-line. But I do seem to run into a lot of wannabees, or Dom's that think they should immediately say things to me like "Wanna be my cumslut?" I certainly don't understand that kind of thinking. I mean, wouldn't it be nice to be friends first and go from there? Don't get me wrong, I love being submissive with the right Dom (and I am a cumslut, but only with a certain one), and had a wonderful experience with a teacher Dom last year, but he started out being nice first. We discussed lots of things, not just bdsm. And he took me places I had never been (submissive wise), and haven't been since.

Thank you for encouraging me to find the one I crave!

And I like your quotes btw!

[Sir_Russell]

learningtopleez
I think you have it now. My morgan makes me complete and I seem to make her complete too. Both of us were happy before we met, then found this attraction that could not be denied even as we kept running into problems, then finally we began to melt into a single entity that has more strength then either of us seperately.

If this growth continues each of us will be more complete then either had dreamed of.

Let me share her photo with this group since I am a proud Master.

[Tojo]

I mean, wouldn't it be nice to be friends first and go from there?

Thank you so much for that LTP- I was starting to think I'm the only one with such a peculiar notion!
I'm firmly convinced you need to be friends first, something I like to keep very much in a D/s relationship.

Tojo

[Sir_Russell]

Tojo, she should be your best friend not just a sub or a slave. If she isn't then she is neither and not in the life but merely a player

[Tojo]

I have no further comment to add.

Tojo

[Ruby]

Thank you so much for that LTP- I was starting to think I'm the only one with such a peculiar notion!
I'm firmly convinced you need to be friends first, something I like to keep very much in a D/s relationship.

Tojo

Tojo, you are not alone on that notion.

[Ozme52]

I agree... but take a look at your vanilla friends' marriages. How many can you honestly say started as friends who became lovers vs. lovers who became friends (if they're friends at all.)

In my experience, those are few and far between.

So, in my opinion, you can make a successful D/s match if the chemistry is there without necessarily being friends first.

BTW - by my definition, a friend is FAR more than an acquaintance... more even, than an acquaintance with whom you hang out.

[Alex Bragi]

After 35 years in the life as a Dom, my newbee slave said I was the most terrific top she has known and thought it was a wonderful compliment, but I was insulted.

Sir Russell, you hot old dom you, why be offended by your sweet submissive's exuberance? Why not instead bask in what was meant as a kindness and a compliment?

Being labelled as this or that may help others to ascertain what you needs are, and it may even give you a better sense of identity of who you are. Beyond that, however, labelling surely doesn't validate who or what someone is in reality, does it? "A rose by any other name…" And, a good dom by any other name, is still a good dom.

And, there's that damned 'player' word again. "Player" the scourge of the bdsm world. But, what exactly is a 'player'. Is it like, someone who enjoys bdsm, but who really isn't in to it? *g

And, Tojo, you rock!

[Sir_Russell]

Once again It matters not to me what part of the life anyone chooses, as long as they respect the life.

Yes, I have greater respect for those that see this as a life style worth honoring and respecting, take the effort to be what they crave.

[Sir_Russell]

Alex yes your right a player is someone that doesn't take it seriously loves to play and that is fine if that is what you and partner want. Hard though to say that is a member of a lifestyle though

[Ozme52]

Well that's just so arrogant it makes me laugh. To think, I'm not a Star Trek fan because I don't wear uniforms and have prosthetic ears... or I'm not worthy to be a NASCAR devotee because I don't drive... or... or... or... ad infinitum.

What makes you think l don't take it seriously just because I don't necessarily live it 24/7. You're, in essence, dismissing the vast majority of the bdsm community.

[Sir_Russell]

Can you read. I am begining to think you can't. If you read and comment on what was said great but when you decide to twist what was said to find personal insult then that is your issue.

Yes I stand by what I said, if all you do is play then how is it a life style. I lifestyle is not overt but it is serious.

Read, understand, then comment or ask questions.

[Aesop]

All right fellas, tone it down a bit. Don't make me get all supermod 'round here.

[submissivewife]

All right fellas, tone it down a bit. Don't make me get all supermod 'round here.

Yeah guys I'd be careful he bites.......

[Tojo]

This thread was finished by page 3.

Tojo

[Sir_Russell]

Aesop

I begin to believe that I am in the wrong place. I came here to learn and share knowledge instead it seems that the attitude here is very juvenile. "I know all I need to know" attitude and if you may have a greater pool of knowledge then instead of respecting that it is easier to denigrate.

I will be silent in the future, and not be concerned about much of what is written here.

Sorry if I expected more from a site that claims to be a library of the life.

[Aesop]

Aesop

I begin to believe that I am in the wrong place. I came here to learn and share knowledge instead it seems that the attitude here is very juvenile. "I know all I need to know" attitude and if you may have a greater pool of knowledge then instead of respecting that it is easier to denigrate.

I will be silent in the future, and not be concerned about much of what is written here.

Sorry if I expected more from a site that claims to be a library of the life.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion Russell. I myself have found the forums to be the extreme opposite of what you have found them to be, but then I don't have as rigid an outlook on BDSM as you seem to. I am generally a peacemaker and a fool - I suppose those go hand in hand - but I have to say your parting shots to the forums as a whole seem to me to be the act of a juvenile instead of the other way 'round. I don't know how you see what's happened, but to me it looks like you had a few people disagree with you and now you're taking your marbles and going home; which is a damn shame in my opinion. I may not have agreed with everything you posted, but I enjoyed your contribution nonetheless.

Good luck to you.

[Tojo]

My apologies for taking what may have been a 'hard line' myself.

This is a topic that tends to get me pretty riled, but I agree that everyone has the right to their opinion.

I'll try & stay cool & not act like a fool.

There's a lot of stuff I don't agree with on this & other forums- I like to think we can all come on & say our piece while still respecting each other.

Tojo

[submissivewife]

This thread was finished by page 3.

Tojo

Your right Tojo, this thread was finished by page three. I just don't understandwhy people can't have a conversation without pushing thier beleifs down peoples throats. I mean, as a community we should be open to others ideas and thoughts; not pushing our own.

Sir_Russell...sorry your thread didn't go as expected. This really was a good topic to talk about. Suddenly though, it turned to push for people to beleive a certain way and that is not what this forum is about. I am not naming you or anyone else. But you as a Dom may want to learn to curb your thoughts and opinions so they don't come across as "my way or the highway". That might work in your relationship but not as a community as a whole.

[Brosco]

I have only just read this thread, and its probably just as well because I'm not sure I would have remained as polite as all here managed.

Lets get a few facts in order here.

These so called secret 'houses' in Europe that are hundreds of years old are a myth created by wannabees to give themselves credibility.

Whether someone has been 'trained' or stumbled through adventures with their partner, it is what was learnt that is the most important thing.

Many people like to claim xxx years of experience to give themselves more credibility. But its often that when one claims 30 years experience they really are talking 1 year's experience 30 times over.

A carpenter without any wood or tools is still a carpenter.

BDSM was not discovered after WW2 by some gay black men. This reference revealed a lack of knowledge on a subject raised. The gay men (not necessarily black) after WW2 are referred to as the 'Old Guard'. They did not claim to invent BDSM, but they were the people that brought it out of the closet. For those that are interested I can give a website created by a(online) friend of mine that is a historian and has researched bdsm history. Oooohhh and while it wasn't mentioned in this thread, there are some people that try to get credibility by claiming they were trained by the 'Old Guard', just as others claim they were trained by centuries old secret houses in europe (they usually pick germany).


And to get back to the original question.

To be praised as a good Top does NOT negate other qualities. A Dom (or Master) needs to be a Top also.

The difference between sub and slave (Dom and Master) is debated on every BDSM forum on the net. Since there are no hard and fast rules in the lifestyle, it is purely opinion. In my humble opinion, the difference between a sub and a slave is how you want to define yourself. I know subs who show much more submission than some who define themselves as slaves.

OK.... off my soap box now

Brosco

[Sir_Russell]

Brosco

Needles to say I agree with some of what you wrote, I though will once again try to straighten out what I said.

First though how is my time in the life worth just a single year of experience. I do not make claims to know it all or even be interested in all of this we call the bdsm lifestyle. I know the parts I love, I came here to learn more.

Now I never said that old guard was anything, I tried to straighten out the belief that a group in Colorado was teaching.

I also never said anything about a house in europe, my comment was a very old society that I joined. Since I have never been to europe I have no idea about a physical school. Training and mentoring have been with us for a very long. To say or think otherwise seems to be a lack of knowledge of any secret society be it Masons or KKK.

Last I could care less about your belief in whether I am honest or not. I learned a long time ago people normally project their own flaws on others.

I merely wanted to open a discourse on the life and I find that I have failed in that, so why is it that you and others can't discuss terms and styles without taking offense?

[katie_21]

Now I'm all for different opinions here...but this post should've died A LONG TIME AGO.

I think it's rather silly "Sir" that you got offended by your NEW slave saying you was a good top or whatever. I mean the key word there is NEW. Anyway, what's with labels anyhow? But that's just my little opinion...I'm done.

[Aesop]

This thread is now closed. If there are any questions pm me.