What's the difference between sweet BDSM love and abuse?

[Tojo]

I don't envy your postion Tom- you're pretty much planning on doing the impossible.

I have two suggestions, one that's been mentioned- to make yourself available & listen to subs. A part of that is to ask questions.

The other is to learn about abuse in general. It's not limited to the BDSM community, & can be explained in general terms.

Where it gets tricky, is that many people are willing to overlook a 'small amount' of abuse, & even welcome it sometimes.

I do know that the average in the 'straight' world is that a woman leaves her abusive husband 7 times, before she makes the final break. I also know that it generally takes two to create the abuse- the abuser & the victim. Few confident powerful women are abused.

It's all a question of balance

*Note- I'm well aware that abuse is not just against women.

[TomOfSweden]

I don't envy your postion Tom- you're pretty much planning on doing the impossible.

Well, it's not a unique position for just me. Anybody at the party/in the Stockholm scene has a responsibility to take care of others in it. If nothing else, just to keep the scene alive.

I have two suggestions, one that's been mentioned- to make yourself available & listen to subs. A part of that is to ask questions.

This is so difficult. My former room-mate and also one of the main organisers of these parties was a dom who listened. There's this thing with subs that they have a pronounced tendency to have all these sob stories that after you've listened for a while realise that they're just wallowing in pointless self pity. My former room mate was fed streams of complete bollocks each time he was planning to get laid. I heard most of it.

I think it's a cultural thing. Being submissive is somehow considered to be the result of some kind of damage so subs tend to go out of their way to find this traumatic thing to explain their abnormal behaviour, no matter how silly this trauma is. I don't think pervyness is the result of a trauma. Not at all.

My point with all this was to say that being available to women still might not help, because it will be impossible to tell the whiners from the women with real problems.

...and aren't abused women sadly the best at maintaining a stiff upper lip? My mother was and still is an abused women. In her fantasy land all is great. She's been through so much and so long I doubt she'd recognise reality if she left my dad. Above all, she doesn't want to be saved. According to her they have really good sex and that is why she stays, even though I'd call their relationship a disaster. So I grew up with this kind of shit really close to me, and I still can't tell the difference from outside.

[Isabella King]

I think it's a cultural thing. Being submissive is somehow considered to be the result of some kind of damage so subs tend to go out of their way to find this traumatic thing to explain their abnormal behaviour, no matter how silly this trauma is. I don't think pervyness is the result of a trauma. Not at all.

I really hope this isn't true - it certainly isn't for me. I mentioned on another thread how worrying it was that so many subs seem to have been abused and I really hope that those who haven't will stand up and disprove this.

[TomOfSweden]

I really hope this isn't true - it certainly isn't for me. I mentioned on another thread how worrying it was that so many subs seem to have been abused and I really hope that those who haven't will stand up and disprove this.

What I do think is that trauma can cause us to discover who we are and what is important for us. Trauma makes us wake up and realize that life is short. Trauma makes us realize there is no hiding from life. So I do think there's a connection between pervery and some sort of trauma. Any trauma at any time. But I don't think it's necessary.

There's a also this theory about fetishes coming from getting a masturbatory habit before one loses ones virginity. This habit then has to be incorporated into the sex for the pleasure centres in the brain to realize that it is in fact sex going on. If we accept this theory, there's no trauma needed either.

And maybe most important. All people at some point in their lives have been abused, but there seems to only be a certain type of person who dwells on them. Last autumn there was a report on people who'd been the victim of sexual abuse and how their lives was 30 years on. They don't seem to have any more dysfunctional lives than the part of the population who weren't sexually abused. The only differences is that the dysfunctional people who'd been abused, blamed their dysfunction on their sexual abuse.

I don't want to play down those who have been through emotionally distressing trauma. I've been the victim of many many years of abuse at the hand of my father. Writing about it still chokes me up. If I wouldn't I'd be a emotionless robot. But if I don't scratch at the sore it's nothing that bothers me today. I don't want to come across as an incentive crud. But just opening ones heart and blindly accepting grievances from people at my parties, I don't think is a good way to find who's been abused. If that's what Tojo meant? If anything it'll just make my ears bleed.

.... this is starting to get a bit derailed I see. But I guess I'm the guilty one. My original question was quite specific. How can I tell when a BDSM relation is not healthy. I need something people wear as a badge I can pick up on, and ask about.

How about this formulation: This is directed to slaves who are in what they would characterize as a healthy BDSM relationship. What do you think could turn your otherwise healthy relationship bad. What if the same sexual acts are performed but the dom changes his demeanor which makes it abusive?

Yes, this is equally a question to male and female subs alike. I just felt like making my life easy when picking gender in my question.