old school

[fallenstar]

ive heard a good amount of people talking about "old school". ive been trying to find some information on it but i was wondering what the difference is between old school and how things are today. ---fallen

[GreyJack]

hey fallen

Old School, also known as Old Guard, relates a lot of BDSM activities and fashion to the gay leather boys, biker gangs, tough-edged dykes, and other "rough trade (as it was also called) who were into whips and chains, forced sex, gang bangs, etc. back when kinky was really outlaw sex. Old School can also be used to describe the hardcore play these people engaged in and there wasn't an emphasis on long-term relationships, just mostly one-night stands so to speak. These days Old School can include these as well as the "Me, Master, you, slave" attitude about relationships, where as New School, New Age BDSM (or whatever anyone may call it) places a stronger emphasis on long-term committed relationships, contractual TPE, respect for subs/slaves as individuals.mentoring, and deeper communication between participants (as opposed to the "Keep your mouth shut and just do what I tell") which typified Old School.

Hope this helps!

[Isabelle90]

I recently met (real life) a Dom with several years experience that was trained in Old Guard. He said that one of the main differences is that in Old Guard, Dom(mes) are trained from the bottom up. That is, they take on the role of a submissive and experience everything. This way, if a Dom(me) says, "I know the flogger stings," he really does!!! There are lots of other protocol, but I've not learned enough to pass on information about it.....

There was another Dom I met (online) that said he was trained European style in a dungeon in London. I know nothing about that, though....

It seems there must be more training methods! I'd love to hear about them!! Thanks for this thread fallen!!!

[thepast]

Hi fallen.

Just briefly... There is a difference between Old Guard & Old School. Old Guard is the old, mostly gay male leather culture that was at the front of the BDSM movement in the early 1970s through the 1990s. Old School is the actual training protocol & philosophy behind the Old Guard movement. There aren't a lot of "books" or "bibles" about what Old School is, because it is a traditional method of training & a lifestyle philosophy passed down from one Dominant to the next, one submissive to the next.

In a nutshell... Old School Dominants generally are brought into a "house" and taught. This usually occurs by being an apprentice to an older, more experienced Dominant, and "learning the ropes" so to speak. Many OS Dominants consider themselves to have at least some time "in service" as a submissive, often in the role of an apprentice Dominant. This apprenticeship is key to the Old School way, as it creates a continuous line of succession and passes on the traditions of Old School. It is akin, somewhat, to an oral religion/culture, whose traditions & history are passed down from one generation to the next. Additionally, submissives are taken under the wing of more experienced submissives, so that they can "learn the ropes" as well, and be guided in their journey. It is very similar to a "mentorship"-like program & works with the same general schematic.

As for what the OS philosophies & traditions are.... OS is grounded in protocols & respect. The main "pillars" of OS include discipline, service, respect, obedience & integrity. There are certain protocols, etc. that I can expand on, if you would like.

OS is 90% similar across the world---so if someone "professes" to be of OS training, you can generally quickly see if this is true... *grins*

Hope this helps some...

delia

[Sir_Russell]

yeah 'old guard' came to this country from europe with mostly black gay men after each world war. They expected that you learned by first serving then graduate to being a Dom.

In european houses they have old guard there but they have a history of being not just kinky but devil worshipers.

[gagged_Louise]

This notion that a Dom will begin and get trained as a sub is rather alien to much bdsm stories (and movies) isn't it? Not claiming to be much of an expert on bdsm books but in classical books like The Story of O and Venus in Furs, a Dom/me is and was always a Dominant, it's kind of locked in the genetic code, the core of their personality and that helps build their authority. The idea that Sir Stephen had been trained as a slave earlier would pretty much ruin The Story of O.

[DowntownAmber]

This notion that a Dom will begin and get trained as a sub is rather alien to much bdsm stories (and movies) isn't it? Not claiming to be much of an expert on bdsm books but in classical books like The Story of O and Venus in Furs, a Dom/me is and was always a Dominant, it's kind of locked in the genetic code, the core of their personality and that helps build their authority. The idea that Sir Stephen had been trained as a slave earlier would pretty much ruin The Story of O.

Perhaps this is launching in to a whole separate thread (mods, move it if it is! Thanks!) but I am leaning towards the same impression as gagged_Louise here, that a Dom tends to be a Dom at the core of his personality. I can see the benefits in putting a Dom through some of what a sub goes through so he or she can experience the physical aspects, but can the psychological ever really be felt unless one is of the sub mentality to begin with? You can put a Dom in chains, but you can't put him into subspace, so to speak. Is the Old Guard or Old School attempting to train physically or mentally as well? (See, with that last question I kept m'self on topic!)

[J-Go]

hey fallen

Old School, also known as Old Guard, relates a lot of BDSM activities and fashion to the gay leather boys, biker gangs, tough-edged dykes, and other "rough trade (as it was also called) who were into whips and chains, forced sex, gang bangs, etc. back when kinky was really outlaw sex. Old School can also be used to describe the hardcore play these people engaged in and there wasn't an emphasis on long-term relationships, just mostly one-night stands so to speak. These days Old School can include these as well as the "Me, Master, you, slave" attitude about relationships, where as New School, New Age BDSM (or whatever anyone may call it) places a stronger emphasis on long-term committed relationships, contractual TPE, respect for subs/slaves as individuals.mentoring, and deeper communication between participants (as opposed to the "Keep your mouth shut and just do what I tell") which typified Old School.

Hope this helps!

Ah yes the good old days! :

[Sir_Russell]

"old school" is a common vanilla term which has been taken by most in the Life to mean strict and very traditional. When I use the term it means that the person has actually studied and learned the craft, found his part in the very large lifestyle.

I consider myself to be old school, not because I am strict and stern but because I have studied the Life found my part in it. Also because I can and do make a lot of my equipment which I think is important to knowing the craft. I also think it means that I have a code in my life that shows the world a better man, one whose word means something, that will not cheat nor lie to avoid personal conflict, someone that has honor in his life.

[gemmy]

to get back off topic and onto Ambers - the thought of a Dominant being submissive is horribly foreign to me, as it would be for me to consider myself Dominating anyone. I do understand them 'testing' things so they know the feelings and sensations they physically inflict, but pshychologically, i can't see it really - otherwise wouldn't it tend to make them more sub than Dom? I've met and talked with many Dominants that understand the deep emotional and pshychological journey they take their submissives on through their care and training. They understand that they can unleash some beasts in her. Some good, and some very bad demons get brought to the surface in particularly intense sessions and a Dominant who is in touch with that may very well have submissive training to better understand her to an extent and what he may face in dealing with her but in no way is submissive themselves, just aware and therefore a better Dominant - maybe that is some of the premise in the 'old school' training theory

just a thought *s* (hopefully it makes sense lol)

[Sir_Russell]

mastersgem,

I agree with you totally. I don't do submissive and doubt that I would learn much serving other then that it is who I am. Since I already know that what is the point, to test when I will snap and beat the supposed Dom to a pulp?

I was one of the fortunate ones I did have a mentor and a group of Doms that shared their experience with me teaching me. I hate to say it I rejected a lot of their teachings at the time. Today I have grown and use much of it that I felt I will never do that, but there is a lot of it that still leaves me cold.

A Dom treasures his sub and knows that he must be careful in all things because he is taking her on a journey of the mind that can hold some bad surprises for both of them.

[Tojo]

There's no clear cut answer to that, but my personal opinion is that 'Old School' is just as Russell describes.

I guess I see myself as 'Other' - ultimately I don't follow any teachings, but have learned dribs & drabs from others- one who could be described as an Old School submissive.

Mostly I do what I believe is right, preferring to fit the D/s to who I'm with, rather than following a set of rules. I agree with this line from Russell 100%:

A Dom treasures his sub and knows that he must be careful in all things because he is taking her on a journey of the mind that can hold some bad surprises for both of them.

You can also find a lot of info online, much of which is contradictory, but still interesting.

[gemmy]

A Dom treasures his sub and knows that he must be careful in all things because he is taking her on a journey of the mind that can hold some bad surprises for both of them.

absolutely well said and i'm with Tojo, 100% agreed and truly the more Dominants that actually understand that, the better off the whole community will be

i've heard too many horror stories about 'supposed' Dom's who haven't a clue of how they are emotionally and mentally affecting their submissives, the real damage they cause can sometimes even be irreversible

[fallenstar]

thank you all for your thoughts and information! its given me a nice amount to consider