a helping hand

[Tojo]

In the time here I've noticed one pretty common thread in regards to doling out advice of any kind, especially to those new and unsure of themselves: the advice given that starts out with "you need to do" this, or "you should do" that tends to be met with (at the best) disinterest or defensiveness and (at the worst) flat out hostility and rejection. No one, even subbies *gasp!*, likes to be told how to live their lives if the "advice" is presented to them in a way that comes across as elitest and condescending. It makes no difference if the giver of said advice meant it to be that way or not.

I see the most successful threads and advice given when people talk about thier own experiences, and let folks draw conclusions that way, and leave themselves open to be asked questions and approached by the newbie crowd. Seems less intimiating and thus more effective that way. Perhaps a few threads dedicated to "firsts" in all of our BDSM lives would be a good resource? Our first o/l relationship, our first r/l relationship, out first big failure and first big success?

Nicely put Amber- you can't tell people what to do. For a start you never know the whole story, & you don't know how they feel.

When people are insecure & confused, they need the space to make their own decisions.

[cadence]

Nicely put Amber- you can't tell people what to do. For a start you never know the whole story, & you don't know how they feel.

When people are insecure & confused, they need the space to make their own decisions.

I'll second that, and to be honest, the first year of my existence here has taught me to learn many things about myself, and what I needed in regards to what I wanted through trial and error. Most of my experiences have not been good ones to say the least.
I would be the first to offer my input as to what can go wrong in general. Not saying that everything I have gone through was horrible, but my inexperience and confused state made me an easier target for being the used prey that other dominants seek to abuse.

[gemmy]

I'll second that, and to be honest, the first year of my existence here has taught me to learn many things about myself, and what I needed in regards to what I wanted through trial and error. Most of my experiences have not been good ones to say the least.
I would be the first to offer my input as to what can go wrong in general. Not saying that everything I have gone through was horrible, but my inexperience and confused state made me an easier target for being the used prey that other dominants seek to abuse.

I can completely relate to that cadence and also have found that learning about myself and my wants and views has made me a stronger person and now one a little less likely to be abused

If there is ever any advice I give new subs, it's that - to look at your own self, wants and thoughts first. They find it very hard as a lot of subs do since we don't tend to think in terms of ourselves and isn't it about pleasing Them, not ourselves? lol - So, not only is it almost unthinkable to do but a very hard task as well requiring patience, another thing many subs are not well known for lol

It goes a long way in finding a far better match though but like our children, sometimes you just cannot teach from your own mistakes - they need to do some of the learning (and failing) on their own

[underwhere]

Part of the process of choosing to enter this lifestyle, no matter whether cursorily or with a far more involved relationship, is in figuring out what you are looking for. It seems that the problem that many newbies have is not being fully in touch with themselves and their needs and desires, whether they are Dom/me, sub, or switch. As a result, if one does not know or consider what one is at all interested in, and perhaps more importantly specifically what one is NOT interested in, the plethora of ideas and situations available can be overwhelming at best, and dangerous at worst if trust is too easily placed in to the hands of somebody who may not be worthy of that trust.

Personally, and I'm guessing this is not true for everybody, I'd spent a great deal of time prepping myself for wanting to get involved, and ultimately choosing to do so, even with my very specific personal concerns. (Those are a bit more complicated than I wish to delve into in this thread, but I'm more than willing to share privately if anybody wishes to know about those.) Even then, what I started out with was only a very faint inkling of understanding of myself with regard to my needs and desires in this area of my life. That has grown greatly as I've engaged in various elements of online exploration. Writing has always been an exceptionally good means of communication for me, in chatrooms, forums, and in blogs. I've chosen to utilize that strength of mine in this exploration, and so far, I seem to have been fairly well rewarded, both in clarifying my own needs and desires to myself, and in communicating those to the people I have interacted with online. (As of right now, I have no r/l experience except for some telephone conversations, and those were of the "getting to know you" type.)

I believe that a lot of this gives me a leg up on those who were wishing to "rush into things" a bit quickly. I never intended to rush into any of this. For me personally, safety is a paramount concern of mine. Nonetheless, I'm still learning. I've spent a lot of time tonight reading in the forum here about some specific strategies one can employ in an effort to attempt to ensure a safe meeting with people you've never met before. Some of those strategies seem both clever and extremely useful in attempting to ensure a safe situation. Many of the strategies I had already considered and planned on employing, but some I had not considered at all, and of those, I plan to employ most, if not all, of them.

It can also be particularly difficult to consider potential "bad situations" if you've never really encountered those in your life before. Because of my specific circumstances, socially, I'm constantly in a state of mental and physical alertness, even outside of this particular realm of s&m/BDSM. One wrong move by me could put me in a REALLY bad situation that, even if I were to get out of it, I probably would not be able to do anything about it after the fact, so I do have to be extremely careful. Knowing this, I have made my explorations go at a pace that has been very slow because I did not want to find myself badly burned, and quite likely physically and emotionally wrecked in the process. This is what I HAVE to do for me. For everybody else, while it is of course optional, it would probably come highly recommended because the stakes are nearly as high if a bad relationship or situation develops.

I think the best we can do for newbies is to let them know that they need to take care of themselves and ensure their own personal safety and well-being. Ultimately, we can only be responsible for ourselves, after all. I've seen lots of efforts at that in the welcoming threads if somebody thinks perhaps a person has introduced themselves with a little more than what might be wise. Being able to point such things out is really important. Whether or not newbies heed such advice, if it is given, is really up to them. Any one of us, I'm sure, could be a reasonable guide, but if somebody is determined to not be guided, there really isn't much any of us can do here to prevent potential bad situations from occurring.

[gemmy]

...I think the best we can do for newbies is to let them know that they need to take care of themselves and ensure their own personal safety and well-being. Ultimately, we can only be responsible for ourselves, after all. I've seen lots of efforts at that in the welcoming threads if somebody thinks perhaps a person has introduced themselves with a little more than what might be wise. Being able to point such things out is really important. Whether or not newbies heed such advice, if it is given, is really up to them. Any one of us, I'm sure, could be a reasonable guide, but if somebody is determined to not be guided, there really isn't much any of us can do here to prevent potential bad situations from occurring.

Sadly, I believe this is the bottom line and it is no different than trying to teach your teenager from the benefit of your own mistakes *winks* we all know they know far more than we do - the old adage...."our kids think it's incredibly amazing how stupid we (parents) are when they are 16 years old, but are even more amazed at how much we've learned by the time they are 20"

[icey]

well one of the reasons i started this thread was because,there is a particular girl i was thinking of and i am a bit worried about her.

some of this post is taken from an email i sent to a friend about her (who i hope doesnt mind me posting it here xx) who very kindly offered to help.

she's only quite young (20) she seems to know what she wants she's a really nice girl im not silly and am a fairly good judge of character and im sure she's not a wannabee but she hasnt a clue!

she got talking to a sub (so called) before i 'met' her and has heard so much crap from her its unbelievable,the girl has really got into her head.
she's had her join slave farm ...wow a real good start ...and she seems to believe that everything posted there is straight from the bdsm bible!
this other sub is very pushy and full of hot air.i could tell you all about her and the influence she has but it would take forever lol
i got talking with her and needless to say we didnt get on too well im not usually pushy and did my best to be tactful but apparently she's got 20+ yrs of experience she knows whats what and im just some silly girl who hasnt a clue .....so piss offf wannabee etc lol that doesnt bother me and i dont think she's worth the hassle,

but so far she's talked her into sending god knows how many pics and performing on webcam, but strangely enough the other girl and her Dom dont have pics or a cam, now they're talking of meeting up as she's recruiting for her 'Master' but not to worry because they're not going to push her into anything ,no strings attached,no expectations etc use

so far they havnt met up but i have a feeling its not far off,
recently i decided to be more blunt with her,i wasnt rude or nasty but she's taken the hump and now wont speak to me so there's nothing i can do,i know its not my buisness and maybe im being overly cautious but that doesnt stop me from worrying about her and she'll have to learn from her own experience i just hope it isnt a bad one.
despite everything she's a very sweet girl and i dont want her to get hurt,but i think she will at the very least i think she will become disallusioned and will spoil what could have been a lovely new way of life for her.

i just wanted to say thankyou to all of you who posted,i took on board all that was said here but as was pointed out in a few posts some people dont want to listen whether its in their own interests or not.
i guess much as i dont want to i have to bow out which i feel im letting her down for but what else can i do?

aaagh the silly girl! for the first time ever i want to be the one doing the flogging!

sorry,vent over lol

[fetishdj]

I agree that this is a problem but I think the solution does have to be education. Maybe a message on the boards as soon as you join saying 'this is what we do, this is what we are about, if you don't like that leave' which may deter some of the wannabes and possibly attract more of those who are looking for serious committment.

I'd be wary about any name and shame policy. Its a good idea in theory but in practise it needs to be tightly controlled and seen to be a fair system otherwise you open up accusations of witch-hunts. The purpose should surely be to make sure that those who come into the lifestyle with mistaken impressions acquire the correct ones before they cause trouble rather than alienate them from the group altogether. Of course, if they persist in bad behaviour then banning them from the group is sometimes the only option.

I used to frequent a particular chat room (the UK room of alt.com). Because it was linked to AFF you got a lot of people (men especially) who wandered in there because you got extra points for joining another AFF site and they all thought 'Yeah, BDSM, lots of kinky bitches who will do me cos I order them to'. They' d swagger into the UK chatroom, demand that any women meet them for a shag right now and then be flamed to a crisp by all the Dommes in the room who were just saving up all that frustration to use on someone Then they'd either get put on mass ignore or (if they seemed genuinely interested and responded to the criticism well) one of the posters would invite them to private chat and tell them in words of less than one syllable that that was not how things are done and that the best way to achieve anything is to be polite, talk to people about things other than sex and generally be yourself. Some were never seen again, others hung around and got into it. Apart from these (brief) interruptions that was one of the best moderated chatrooms I had ever been in We mostly talked about shopping, housework and how I needed to be gagged to keep me from saying stupid things...

[gemmy]

i guess much as i dont want to i have to bow out which i feel im letting her down for but what else can i do?

aaagh the silly girl! for the first time ever i want to be the one doing the flogging!

sorry,vent over lol

*hugs* icey, you're such a sweetie and I've been in your position and yes, sadly all you can do is voice your own thoughts and experiences and hopefully get her to see the light. There are plenty of good sites out there to learn from but if you are set on one way, no amount of coaxing is going to change it and especially if she's being offered thrills and excitement where we are offering safety and patience (sounds boring and not quick enough to the eager newb unfortunately)

I, like you, hope she takes at least a little time to heed your words and hopefully you've at least planted a small seed of doubt that may yet grow

[GearJammer]

*hugs* icey, you're such a sweetie and I've been in your position and yes, sadly all you can do is voice your own thoughts and experiences and hopefully get her to see the light. There are plenty of good sites out there to learn from but if you are set on one way, no amount of coaxing is going to change it and especially if she's being offered thrills and excitement where we are offering safety and patience (sounds boring and not quick enough to the eager newb unfortunately)

I, like you, hope she takes at least a little time to heed your words and hopefully you've at least planted a small seed of doubt that may yet grow

I can add only this to what mgem said so well, Icey. You'll be there, and when she realizes that she's been taken for a ride (due most likely to your seed of doubt), you'll likely be the one she comes to in order to learn what's going on.

And those of us who are learning what Icey is about know that you'll be there for her without saying "I told you so" (well, without saying it too much... chuckle).