Quote Originally Posted by annie View Post
I see a HUGE problem with this type of behavior and it ISN'T clear as far as I can tell that the Dom is just playing. The sub doesn't say 2+2=5 because she "wants" to be punished... she says it because she WANTS to please the dominate. Exactly how is a sub supposed to learn to trust you and your word if you are setting her up for failure and punishment. I don't care how the conversation is done this is just wrong wrong WRONG! She does it to please and then basically gets slapped for pleasing? That doesn't fly and will just cause confusion and doubt both in her submission and the dominant she is dealing with.

There is a difference between play and real punishment and that is a clear line that needs to be established. That line, imo, is crossed in the above. This is NOT a game and that type of action can cause hurt and confusion! I would much rather feel a firm hand as a reward then for some trumpet up "punishment" that is designed to trick and set me up for failure. In my mind... bottomline, this type of set up is abuse, pure and simple!
Well then don't worry. Obviously the dom is just be playing. Otherwise, he's just an idiot using his sub as a plaything, as you say- but why would a relationship like that ever work? And if the sub isn't fine with it, she should tell him that 2+2 IS in fact four, and to go fuck himself.

The only point I wanted to make is that a sub accepting a dom's incorrect conclusions as fact is a form of submission. The entire point of the post is that such play is intellectually dishonest bullshit, and both parties have to suspend disbelief in order to enjoy it. The dom knows he is wrong but wants to test the submissive's will. The submissive knows the dom is wrong but capitulates anyway. And all is right with the world.

- FS

EDIT: Also, just to make this clear- the 2 + 2 = 5 conversation is just a bare-bones representation of all similar play to show the construction of such a conversation. It is not a conversation I'd expect anyone to actually use. Though hell, I might try it now.

An even simpler example of the same concept:

DOM (in the heat of passion): "You're a little slut!" (NOT TRUE)
SUB (in the heat of passion): "God, yes I am!" (NOT TRUE)

None of this shit is actually true in any demonstrable sense. But I don't think that should serve as a comdemnation of their relationship.