A movie that made you mad ???

[walkingdude225]

I was watching Videodrome tonight and i was enjoying the movie i was not really thinking about what was going on. And then it hit me "it kinda stereotypic al of its veiw of bdsm (alittle) but you can still see it." This did not get me mad ( i still love the movie) but it gave me an idea. What movie did you hate because of their veiw of bdsm. It cloud be anything from 8mm or even hellraiser; both of which i love., but, some may not. So theres the question; what movie you hated because of its image of bdsm.

P.S. I know Videodrome is more snuff and body horror but there is still alot of bdsm scences in the movie.

[Laila]

To be honest... and I know a lot will disagree with me, lol my own Master very much disagrees with me but for me its 'Secretary'.

I hate how it seems to imply that dominance stems from being the one trodden on in a previous marriage and submission stems from an utter inability live your life properly and works well as a substitute of cutting oneself.

Nothing against women like that and its lovely that these two in the film found each other but it so cements the view that there must be something wrong with you to be into Bdsm.

[SauvagePouline]

I don't have a movie off hand, but I can think of a book series. Laurell K Hamilton's Anita Blake series. Some of the books aren't as bad as others, and some might even see it as an OK representation.

But the main character is a hateful, dominant in a bad way, biotch. For paranormal reasons, she has a string of lovers a mile long. And there are threads of D/s and bondage and S/m allllllll through the books. And she has all sorts of hang ups about it. In some books she makes BDSM sound bloody, truly sadistic (not the good way) and corrupted. Others it sounds mildly acceptable.

What's funny, is that in her other series, the Merry Gentry series, the main character is quite liberated. And the representation of BDSM is fairly good. She has no problems with her string of lovers, and kinky sex is a part of herself that she embraces, rather than a scary part of her self she'd rather cover up. There is one character who is overly sadistic (again in the bad way) and beats people truly bloody, but it is quite obviously not supposed to represent normal kinksters.

But the D/s is messed up in both series. Anyone who submits is weak and has problems. Whether it be low-on-the-totem-pole werewolves, or the half goblin who gets his arse beat all the time, and clings to dominants for safety.

My theory is the author has some very kinky fantasies, but very little actual experience, and thus lives vicariously through the books (not that that is a bad thing). But, I can't decide if it is good for BDSM because it gets the idea out there, and makes it sound interesting and almost acceptable, or bad because it IS misrepresented and unrealistic, and definitely makes D/s look bad, even if kinky sex looks ok...

[Pearlgem]

To be honest... and I know a lot will disagree with me, lol my own Master very much disagrees with me but for me its 'Secretary'.

I hate how it seems to imply that dominance stems from being the one trodden on in a previous marriage and submission stems from an utter inability live your life properly and works well as a substitute of cutting oneself.

Nothing against women like that and its lovely that these two in the film found each other but it so cements the view that there must be something wrong with you to be into Bdsm.

I largely agree with you, L. While the D/s in 'Secretary' is portrayed as life-enhancing for Dom and sub in many ways, they just had to make her a cutter and a bit of a sad sack at the beginning. To me, it's copping out, being slightly afraid to tell a more 'shocking' truth - that Doms and subs can come to this lifestyle from positions of strength and joy.

I HATE 'Blue Velvet'! Okay, it's hardly SSC or even RACK, with a husband and child held hostage and a psychopathic 'Dom', and there are some undoubtedly sexy bits of the, 'Ooh, I shouldn't like this but I do' variety, but what was she all about?? He was just a dangerous nutter, but was she supposed to be portrayed with any degree of sensitivity for her mysterious urges? Is this how submissive/masochistic women are viewed, that they desire any old abuse and crap from depraved monsters? She had the same urges as you and me, sisters, but enjoying pain during sex doesn't necessarily catapult you into this hellish twilight zone of abuse and depravity, not unless you want it to! Once again, to my mind a cop out, a version of the truth to titilate and confirm vanilla prejudices.

[walkingdude225]

I Once again, to my mind a cop out, a version of the truth to titilate and confirm vanilla prejudices.

You make a good point, do you think most of these bad images are from prejudices or is when someone who is into bdsm gets to create something edgy they get carried away and they dont think of the backlash?

[tusayan]

For those that saw it, I'd be interested in hearing people's opinions/reactions of the portrayal in Secret Diary of a Call Girl.

[sinderella]

To be honest... and I know a lot will disagree with me, lol my own Master very much disagrees with me but for me its 'Secretary'.

i didn't focus on her being a cutter, and i don't think it said ALL subs were like her - it was just HER story. Edward wasn't a Dominant because of his previous marriage - he just WAS, and it didn't leave you thinking ALL Dominants are created because of bad circumstances. i took the film at face value - just two people who happened to find each other, and one happened to be a natural-born submissive and the other happened to be a natural-born Dominant. and when they did find each other, it was bliss, which the film more than adequately portrayed. to me, stereotypes are showing people wearing and holding all of the trappings and artifacts of the BDSM lifestyle and painting them in black&white strokes - the Dominant is a hedonistic sadist and the submissive is a simpering glutton for punishment. this film did not portray them that way at all. yes, they each had their personality quirks (his obsession with correct punctuation and typos) and her fascination with cutting herself. but all people, regardless of their walk of life, can exhibit these same characteristics, and the film didn't say, to me, that these people were like this because of their Dominance and submission. i thought it was a great film and it spoke to the submissive in me in a very meaningful and beautiful way.

[gagged_Louise]

I was watching Videodrome tonight and i was enjoying the movie i was not really thinking about what was going on. And then it hit me "it kinda stereotypic al of its veiw of bdsm (alittle) but you can still see it." This did not get me mad ( i still love the movie) but it gave me an idea. What movie did you hate because of their veiw of bdsm. It cloud be anything from 8mm or even hellraiser; both of which i love., but, some may not. So theres the question; what movie you hated because of its image of bdsm.

P.S. I know Videodrome is more snuff and body horror but there is still alot of bdsm scences in the movie.

I think Videodrome was a brilliant movie, not particularly the bdsm moments as such (Debbie Harry being hung up and whipped etc) but more the way it poses questions about sex, intimacy, loneliness and virtual reality. The film was made ten years before the internet broke through but it picks up some issues that only the web (and the social changes of later years) have really made pertinent. Max wants to change things in a way, he sees himself as a rebel entrepreneur but he's really the hooked prey of what he meets on tv and in this shut-off reality, the fantasies that he is fed.

He's a rather damaged guy, can't trust anyone and can't rest in anything of what he sees or build any kind of steady relations. I don't think that was a comment from Cronenberg on fetish relationships, it's more about how people become expendable in some parts of the media and in an image-stricken way of life. Nikki Sixx's Heroin Diaries could be read as another version of the same state of mind.

I have big issues with Pat Conroy's The Prince of Tides, issues that would probably be even greater with the movie if I saw it - again, not bdsm issues as such. I liked parts of the book very much, the southern stories of Savannah and her brothers are sensuous, raunchy, funny, richly textured and emotional without being teary-eyed - they have a dead-on satiric edge too: the chapter where Tom meets Herbert Woodruff at a simmering cold party is a satiric masterpiece - but the core of the book felt bogged down in some sort of melodramatic kitsch overkill. It never really explains why Savannah goes schizophrenic, the book seems to buy into some muddy linking of madness, suffering and genius and the psychologist and her love affair with Tom ultimately wrecks the book - no psychologist in their right mind enters a love affair with a patient or confidant, that's an absolute no-no. And the overdone rape/killing scene with the tiger does nothing to explain things.

Someone said about the film that it's really "a romance masquerading as a story of mental illness and healing" - could be true, but then it seems to me Savannnah would be largely a redundant character or designed to pull readers into the story. When the author sneaks off her, it's a move that would eat at the focus of the book.

[blythe spirit]

Louise, your posts are always so well written, so well thought out and so informative. I enjoy reading them.

[Hime]

I dunno, I don't watch movies or read books for a sensible, realistic portrayal of BDSM. I want to see the stuff that I would never do in real life, but I still enjoy in fantasy -- where the scary parts are actually scary. I think it would be cool to see kinky sex portrayed more positively in movies and TV, but I don't particularly want everything in fiction to be SSC with safewords and limits, you know?

And about Secretary -- I've heard a lot of people complaining that it made it look like you can't be kinky unless "there's something wrong with you." I don't really understand that complaint, because I guess I don't know anyone, kinky or otherwise, who doesn't have some kind of past trauma or emotional difficulty. Life is just tough that way.

[his_girl_l]

i thought the same thing as many other posters about "Secretary" - that presenting bdsm as an alternative to cutting wasn't very realistic.

But after reading through a lot of forums, here and elsewhere, i have found a lot of submissive girls who have a history of cutting, especially the younger ones.

So maybe it's more true to a lot of peoples experiences than we thought.

[Ozme52]

Not mad per se, but certainly disappointing was The Pet

I mean to attempt to portray the keeping and training of human pets... ultimately for the purpose of harvesting their organs?

Yeah... that's realistic...

[gagged_Louise]

Not mad per se, but certainly disappointing was The Pet

I mean to attempt to portray the keeping and training of human pets... ultimately for the purpose of harvesting their organs?

Yeah... that's realistic...

Thinking of harvesting human organs, Coma (1978) was a good if quirky film - and Genevieve Bujold, as always, looks great. She does have a masochist ambience as an actress, doesn't she? It's something about her face and arms. Saw a bound and gagged still of her from de Palma's Obsession long ago - have to see that film sometime.

[Aibo]

Hello walkingdude225.

Videodrome and Hellraiser was both quite ok, though the scenes in Hellraiser was all to short for my taste. 8o)

I got a really bad example: Barbarian Queen is one I did see years ago for incomprehensible reasons. It had Lana Clarkson on a torture rack, but the film had horrible acting, a real turkey.

(Not certain you know what I mean a bad film is a 'turkey' we call them that here gagged Louise might understand what I meant.)

So for a good one, I cant say it is, since none have seen it yet. But I do have some hopes for the coming 'The Spirit'.
It was the favourite comic character of mine, and you never seen a superhero getting so beaten black and blue as this one, yes he was very human.
Already at such a young age did I note strong D/s hints on his relationship with women. (Yes I always have had this inclination, born bad.) Though most were very dominant, having The Spirit fall for them, though they almost always turned on him, with poison and sometimes guns, at best they turned out to be scam artists. The often captured and bound Ellen Dolan was the one for me though.

So feel free to check on clips and info on my own fav that how going for the silver screen.
http://movies.yahoo.com/photos/movie...-stills#photo0

[shayna{L_D}]

I havent watched a lot of movies where there was BDSM invovled and or undercurrents. I remember right when i started to get into bdsm, i was watching tv with my girlfriend (she got me into it), and a movie came on. It was late, late enough for them to show this movie, and we were interested. The movie was of course The Secretary. We didnt know what the hell was going on in the begining, we were like "whats he doing..?" and or "why did she do that?". We were both very into the movie and decided to rent it becuase we were sure the tv network we were watching left out a lot of the 'good' parts.

We rented it, watched it and understood it better since half the movie wasnt cut out. Afterwards we bought the movie lol (when we broke up, i kept it..MINE!) Thats when i found the library and started to know what the heck was going on in my mind.

Neway back to the topic, i watch it now and i dont get mad persay just a little aggravated that they didnt go into bdsm more. They made it seem like, oh she gets spanked a few times and then shes his for life. They didnt go into any other aspect of bdsm, no canes, cropes, whipes, being tied, collars..etc. Plus they didnt say anything about her being into bdsm before him. Made it seem like she found him, and she automaticaly knew what she was supposed to do and say. Thats not always the case.

Also upsets me that they touched on her cutting but left it up to you to think that she stopped for him. I know the movie wasnt all about her cutting, but then what was it all about? Them falling in love? It hardly seemed like he loved her, maybe liked her but love..thats questionable.

Its a good starter bdsm movie, but it could have been way better. Now that i know what bdsm is all about and have been studying it for 3 years now, thats just my opinion though.

[gagged_Louise]

So for a good one, I cant say it is, since none have seen it yet. But I do have some hopes for the coming 'The Spirit'.
It was the favourite comic character of mine, and you never seen a superhero getting so beaten black and blue as this one, yes he was very human.
Already at such a young age did I note strong D/s hints on his relationship with women. (Yes I always have had this inclination, born bad.) Though most were very dominant, having The Spirit fall for them, though they almost always turned on him, with poison and sometimes guns, at best they turned out to be scam artists. The often captured and bound Ellen Dolan was the one for me though.

Yes, I saw some stills this morning from "The Spirit" with Eva Mendes and she looked great. Real femme fatale in black latex or something...Another oldtime comic/pulp I would like to see made into a movie is "Fafhrd and Mouser" - I remember reading one or two episodes of a comic book version of it as a kid and the whiff of the gothic imagery has stayed with me forever.

[Aibo]

Yes, I saw some stills this morning from "The Spirit" with Eva Mendes and she looked great. Real femme fatale in black latex or something...Another oldtime comic/pulp I would like to see made into a movie is "Fafhrd and Mouser" - I remember reading one or two episodes of a comic book version of it as a kid and the whiff of the gothic imagery has stayed with me forever.

Ahh you seen some of it too. If they will be any true to the original, the Spirit might very well have a few tidbits for us kinksters. Though I dont expect it will be that much either since its a film for the masses.
(And as a sidenote, The Spirit is one old comic but it was printed several decades later here where I live in 'The Phantom' comic books.)

As for Fafhrd and Mouser, it was something I had to go to Wiki to learn more about, character I missed even though I was quite into comic books at the time.
You never know what you learn on a discussion forum.

[Ozme52]

Thinking of harvesting human organs, Coma (1978) was a good if quirky film - and Genevieve Bujold, as always, looks great. She does have a masochist ambience as an actress, doesn't she? It's something about her face and arms. Saw a bound and gagged still of her from de Palma's Obsession long ago - have to see that film sometime.

Yeah, but Coma wasn't what I would call a bdsm film...

[walkingdude225]

Hello walkingdude225.




So for a good one, I cant say it is, since none have seen it yet. But I do have some hopes for the coming 'The Spirit'.
It was the favourite comic character of mine, and you never seen a superhero getting so beaten black and blue as this one, yes he was very human.
Already at such a young age did I note strong D/s hints on his relationship with women. (Yes I always have had this inclination, born bad.) Though most were very dominant, having The Spirit fall for them, though they almost always turned on him, with poison and sometimes guns, at best they turned out to be scam artists. The often captured and bound Ellen Dolan was the one for me though.

So feel free to check on clips and info on my own fav that how going for the silver screen.
http://movies.yahoo.com/photos/movie...-stills#photo0

I did not know the spirit had kink undertones cool

[Laila]

For those that saw it, I'd be interested in hearing people's opinions/reactions of the portrayal in Secret Diary of a Call Girl.

I really like the series and I thought their portrayal of BDSM was in its point of view accurate but irrelevant for me. There was the bit where she dommed her tax-guy and couldn't handle it. I thought that was a sensitive and not demeaning portrayal. Of course then in the recent season there was the bit about her being almost forced to submit to a guy and that i didn't like so much. It was just overdone for me.

[tusayan]

I really like the series and I thought their portrayal of BDSM was in its point of view accurate but irrelevant for me. There was the bit where she dommed her tax-guy and couldn't handle it. I thought that was a sensitive and not demeaning portrayal. Of course then in the recent season there was the bit about her being almost forced to submit to a guy and that i didn't like so much. It was just overdone for me.

I liked the series as well, although I didn't see the second episode you referenced.

Interesting take on the scene where she loses control. I think you're right that the overall portrayal was not demeaning or offensive but I thought her easy loss of control was somewhat of a trope.

[damyanti]

Not any in particular...because what bothers me is...its always so weird, always presented as extreme of the extreme. Why arent there any normal BDSM movies...movies that deal with realistic BDSM problems and or relationships? What irkes me are regular shows that now throw BDSM elements into episodes...but they always finish it with reiterating how perverse and bad it is. *GRRRRRRRRR* And most BDSM movies tend to be an extension of that, only with more blood, violence, sociopaths and serial killers.....so realistic and so boring.

[thewhiterabbit]

I don't have a movie off hand, but I can think of a book series. Laurell K Hamilton's Anita Blake series. Some of the books aren't as bad as others, and some might even see it as an OK representation.

But the main character is a hateful, dominant in a bad way, biotch. For paranormal reasons, she has a string of lovers a mile long. And there are threads of D/s and bondage and S/m allllllll through the books. And she has all sorts of hang ups about it. In some books she makes BDSM sound bloody, truly sadistic (not the good way) and corrupted. Others it sounds mildly acceptable.

What's funny, is that in her other series, the Merry Gentry series, the main character is quite liberated. And the representation of BDSM is fairly good. She has no problems with her string of lovers, and kinky sex is a part of herself that she embraces, rather than a scary part of her self she'd rather cover up. There is one character who is overly sadistic (again in the bad way) and beats people truly bloody, but it is quite obviously not supposed to represent normal kinksters.

But the D/s is messed up in both series. Anyone who submits is weak and has problems. Whether it be low-on-the-totem-pole werewolves, or the half goblin who gets his arse beat all the time, and clings to dominants for safety.

My theory is the author has some very kinky fantasies, but very little actual experience, and thus lives vicariously through the books (not that that is a bad thing). But, I can't decide if it is good for BDSM because it gets the idea out there, and makes it sound interesting and almost acceptable, or bad because it IS misrepresented and unrealistic, and definitely makes D/s look bad, even if kinky sex looks ok...

I'm actually a HUGE Hamilton fan. Anita Blake is one of the few female characters I have ever enjoyed for not being stuck in a normal female's overtly feminized role. The way I see it, she started out as a character who really wasn't into BDSM. Not every person out there wants to be a dom or sub so to have it thrust on you- well, I think she handles it better than some might. That might be a reason I personally identify with her- I've had the dom role shoved onto me in the past and yeah, in all honesty I wasn't the best dom back then. I'm still not at the level of many others out there (but it's not exactly a high priority right now either).

I don't know that Hamilton was trying to show BDSM originally. I think it was meant to just be a paranormal murder mystery thing, complete with love interests. I mean, how many books did it take before Anita had sex?

As far as BDSM being sadist, bloody, cruel etc- there are plenty out there who are. They may not frequent this forum but they're there. Besides, that's what the S stands for anyways.

The last book I read in the series I remember she (Anita) had come to terms with it (BDSM) a bit more. I vaguely recall her giving a lecture or something on how it was okay to like it or something along those lines. It seems to me that Anita was made to have flaws- much more so than Merry. Relationships, bdsm or otherwise, aren't the smooth stuff we dream of. Crap happens, people get dramatic. I dunno. What can I say? I'm just a fan.