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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by SadisticNature View Post
    Firstly, you attack both my claim and my supporting evidence, without providing a counterclaim or any sources of your own.
    This surprises you? You have gone to a lot of trouble NOT to produce your sources. That tells me that you are simply parroting something you have read or been told, without bothering to do your own research to verify the accuracy of the statements. How do you expect someone to produce a "counterclaim" if you refuse to produce your documentation? Handy tactic if you don't really want a discussion. I see it a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by SadisticNature View Post
    You have produced up to this point no supporting evidence. In fact up to this point I still contend the parallels to conservatism are striking, where this is often the predominant tactic in all sorts of debates (particularly evolution). I was not making the argument that conservatives are the only side who distort history. I was more claiming that the instant disagreement without any supportive evidence.
    Here again you miss the point. You opened the topic, I challenged and asked for your sources. You refused to give them. You are again trying to shift this to a Liberal vs Conservative debate, sure it will distract readers from the fact that you have yet to support your claim, but I hate to break the news to you but a liberal with a healthy dose of common sense sounds a lot like a conservative and vice versa. I on the other hand will quote my resources if and when we actually begin to discuss the subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by SadisticNature View Post
    The problem with the historic justification of "well everyone else was doing it" is that it can justify all sorts of atrocities, including the holocaust (It's not like other empires weren't oppressing minorities through the use of concentration camps, torture and slaughter).
    ROFL, Nice try, but that's not what I said, and you and everyone reading knows it. "That's the way it was" is a lot different than "well everyone else was doing it" It is not attempting to justify anything, it just states a fact. You can either accept that, or use the afore mentioned time machine to change history.

    Quote Originally Posted by SadisticNature View Post
    As for the choice of forum, there have been other talks about waterboarding in this thread. I find it interesting to look at the history of waterboarding by and against Americans, particularly since it shows that by Americans goes unpunished while against Americans results in executions.
    News is recent.. as in NEWs and World Events. It is my opinion that this is politics. Its not an issue though, If the moderators feel the thread needs moved they will move it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SadisticNature View Post
    As for the grammar comments, yes I agree that was rather poorly written, the point was to list the documents and I wasn't checking over my work very carefully.

    I'll be happy to attack your grammar with equal zeal, there are plenty of mistakes you've made even in just this thread. I just don't see how that is productive.
    I was not attacking your grammar. That's not my style because, as you said, it would not be productive. What I was pointing out was this....
    Quote Originally Posted by SadisticNature View Post
    As for knowing what people think. There are surviving records in the forms of: (i) Documented Conversations (ii) Collected Letters (iii) Policy Decisions and Documented Statements in support (for example to the senate or congress).
    Where you used a lot of punctuation to make it look like you were offering source documents, while producing none at all.
    Si is sentio bonus, Operor is. Si is sentio valde, Operor is multus.
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  2. #2
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    Just pressing the "Thanks" button is insufficient for this posting.
    I am pleased to have someone that is calling into question the propensity of the Sadistic method of positing an argument.
    Along with stating the consistent refusal of providing supporting data when requested.


    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedTails View Post
    This surprises you? You have gone to a lot of trouble NOT to produce your sources. That tells me that you are simply parroting something you have read or been told, without bothering to do your own research to verify the accuracy of the statements. How do you expect someone to produce a "counterclaim" if you refuse to produce your documentation? Handy tactic if you don't really want a discussion. I see it a lot.

    Here again you miss the point. You opened the topic, I challenged and asked for your sources. You refused to give them. You are again trying to shift this to a Liberal vs Conservative debate, sure it will distract readers from the fact that you have yet to support your claim, but I hate to break the news to you but a liberal with a healthy dose of common sense sounds a lot like a conservative and vice versa. I on the other hand will quote my resources if and when we actually begin to discuss the subject.



    ROFL, Nice try, but that's not what I said, and you and everyone reading knows it. "That's the way it was" is a lot different than "well everyone else was doing it" It is not attempting to justify anything, it just states a fact. You can either accept that, or use the afore mentioned time machine to change history.


    News is recent.. as in NEWs and World Events. It is my opinion that this is politics. Its not an issue though, If the moderators feel the thread needs moved they will move it.



    I was not attacking your grammar. That's not my style because, as you said, it would not be productive. What I was pointing out was this....

    Where you used a lot of punctuation to make it look like you were offering source documents, while producing none at all.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuncanONeil View Post
    Just pressing the "Thanks" button is insufficient for this posting.
    I am pleased to have someone that is calling into question the propensity of the Sadistic method of positing an argument.
    Along with stating the consistent refusal of providing supporting data when requested.
    Or the DuncanONeil method of attacking an argument by avoiding to talk about the material at hand at all, but rather criticizing anything that avoids discussing the material at hand. I have responded to criticism on the sources by first providing source materials (the books involved) and some particular sources as well. You have said nothing relating to the Philippines in approximately 10 consecutive posts in a thread on the Philippines.

    You also assert without any source or supporting documents that the ability to determine ones origins (or even ethnic grouping since the matter at hand is black vs asian) was not present in the early 20th century.

    You state utterly absurd statements as self-evident and unsupported facts yet chastise people for commenting on historical events when they aren't willing to look up the exact page number and paragraph of a quote that you'll never look up anyways.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SadisticNature View Post
    You also assert without any source or supporting documents that the ability to determine ones origins (or even ethnic grouping since the matter at hand is black vs asian) was not present in the early 20th century.
    First of all Filipinos would not be Asian, they are actually quite a mixed lot.
    Also far from claiming any credentials I did have an anthropological course that had a section related to human genotypes. During which it was made clear that physical appearance is the worst indicator of said genotype. With this being displayed in the late 20th century it is easy to see how it could be more of an issue just barely out of the 19th!
    But a bit of research indicates that the racial term may have been inappropriately to the negritos
    Last edited by DuncanONeil; 02-06-2010 at 06:15 PM. Reason: update

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuncanONeil View Post
    First of all Filipinos would not be Asian, they are actually quite a mixed lot.
    Also far from claiming any credentials I did have an anthropological course that had a section related to human genotypes. During which it was made clear that physical appearance is the worst indicator of said genotype. With this being displayed in the late 20th century it is easy to see how it could be more of an issue just barely out of the 19th!
    But a bit of research indicates that the racial term may have been inappropriately to the negritos
    I asked for a source. Anything I post based on my life experience and my courses you dismiss as irrelevant because it lacks a written source. Kindly hold yourself to the same standards you asked of others. Not I once took this course a while a go, and it had this one section and if I remember it right it said this :P

  6. #6
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    Getting a bit testy are we? I am not the one that took you to task! And at least I did qualify my statement.
    Anywho!
    Filipinos generally belong to several Asian ethnic groups.(Lewis, Paul M. (2009). Languages of Philippines. Ethnologue: Languages of the World (16th ed.). Dallas, Tex.: SIL International.) Taiwanese aborigines migrated to the Philippines from Taiwan, displacing the earlier Negrito groups of the islands. Eventually Chinese, Spanish, and American arrivals intermarried with the various indigenous ethnic groups that had evolved.(Capelli, Christian, James F. Wilson, Martin Richards, Michael P. H. Stumpf, Fiona Gratrix, Stephen Oppenheimer, Peter Underhill, et al. (2001-02-01). "A Predominantly Indigenous Paternal Heritage for the Austronesian-Speaking Peoples of Insular South Asia and Oceania") Their descendants are known as mestizos.("The Impact of Spanish Rule in the Philippines". (2009). Tagalog at NIU. Retrieved 2009-12-19 from the Northern Illinois University, Center for Southeast Asian Studies, SEAsite Project.)
    Hope you find that satisfactory, however ....


    Quote Originally Posted by SadisticNature View Post
    I asked for a source. Anything I post based on my life experience and my courses you dismiss as irrelevant because it lacks a written source. Kindly hold yourself to the same standards you asked of others. Not I once took this course a while a go, and it had this one section and if I remember it right it said this :P

  7. #7
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    Big Picture vs Smaller Details

    Quote Originally Posted by DuncanONeil View Post
    Getting a bit testy are we? I am not the one that took you to task! And at least I did qualify my statement.
    Anywho!
    Filipinos generally belong to several Asian ethnic groups.(Lewis, Paul M. (2009). Languages of Philippines. Ethnologue: Languages of the World (16th ed.). Dallas, Tex.: SIL International.) Taiwanese aborigines migrated to the Philippines from Taiwan, displacing the earlier Negrito groups of the islands. Eventually Chinese, Spanish, and American arrivals intermarried with the various indigenous ethnic groups that had evolved.(Capelli, Christian, James F. Wilson, Martin Richards, Michael P. H. Stumpf, Fiona Gratrix, Stephen Oppenheimer, Peter Underhill, et al. (2001-02-01). "A Predominantly Indigenous Paternal Heritage for the Austronesian-Speaking Peoples of Insular South Asia and Oceania") Their descendants are known as mestizos.("The Impact of Spanish Rule in the Philippines". (2009). Tagalog at NIU. Retrieved 2009-12-19 from the Northern Illinois University, Center for Southeast Asian Studies, SEAsite Project.)
    Hope you find that satisfactory, however ....
    I'd still argue that this shows the details were not understood, but doesn't provide a reasonable belief that the Filipino's were of African origin, as represented to the American public.

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