Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
That's my point, though. Just because we call them "inalienable" doesn't make them so, either. It's a relatively modern concept. We claim the right to Life: yet at any time the universe can throw you a curve and take you right out. Your "rights" won't make a damn bit of difference. We claim the right of Liberty: but at any time the government can whisk you away, call you a terrorist and lock you up without even a trial. So much for Liberty. We claim a right to the Pursuit of Happiness: as long as Happiness doesn't involve marrying someone of the same sex as yourself.
With the "universe" having granted the right to life, than the "universe" taking that life back is consistent.
Admittedly it sounds counter intuitive but Liberty has limits. You are free to do as you will, but that does not extend to indiscriminate taking of life, for example. Happiness is not a right, the pursuit of said happiness is the right. By definition said pursuit can be unsuccessful!


Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
All of these rights, and all of those outlined in the Bill of Rights, were given to us by the founders and leaders of this country. We consider them to be inalienable, or God-given, or natural. But in actuality they are as tenuous as a wisp of smoke.
Because of the intent expressed in the Declaration, on this we are going to have to disagree. We both know the reason for that disagreement, therefore discussion of the disagreement would likely go far afield and be unproductive.