Religion or Atheism? An open forum.

[Thorne]

Well, denuseri, as usual we are running around in circles here. I ask you for evidence that gods exist and you give me nothing but pleas for respect. When I show you evidence which conflicts with religious belief you deny it, in favor of belief. And you want me to show evidence that something does NOT exist, without you providing evidence that it does!

Well, lets try this, then. I believe there is an invisible pink unicorn living in your living room. You can't see it, feel it or touch it. You can't smell it or hear it. It doesn't eat, and doesn't eliminate wastes. But it IS there! And it want's you to pray to it.

Now, PROVE to me that the unicorn does NOT exist! You might also want to look up Russell's Teapot while your at it.

The problem with faith is that you are not arguing from a rational position. You make grandiose claims based on little other than what feels good. You hide under a blanket of respect and tolerance, then get upset when someone comes along and doesn't show respect or tolerance for your beliefs. Your world view is so steeped in your religious beliefs that you cannot comprehend someone NOT having religious beliefs. So you constantly misrepresent my position as a belief rather than non-belief.

I'm beginning to think that you might be afraid to accept even the idea that there MIGHT not be any gods. So any evidence, any logical constructs, which threaten your beliefs are summarily discarded as "opinions". You will not, or can not, provide any evidence other than "billions of people believe" to support your god stories, yet you demand absolute proof that the pink unicorn doesn't exist.

One of the complaints I've heard from other atheists regarding arguing with Creationists is that the Creationists continuously throw out claim after claim, without evidence or citation, demanding that scientists prove this or that. Then, when scientists start to show them evidence, they quickly jump off to another topic altogether, again tossing out multiple claims without taking a breath, and demanding answers immediately. Then, when the scientists start to answer, the Creationists go back to their original questions, as if they hadn't already been answered. (It's called the "Gish Gallop" and you might want to look that up, too.) I feel like I'm getting a better understanding of the process.

So I'm going to make a simple request. Show me YOUR proofs of gods. ANY gods. Make sure it is testable proof, something which can be examined and studied and which has no other possible explanation. If you can do that I will gladly admit that I was wrong, and that there are indeed gods.

(For the record, the "invisible pink unicorn" is not my creation. It's a challenge given to kids attending Camp Quest, a summer camp for the children of non-theist parents.)