Married/online D/s?

[Tojo]

Here you go brattyone- this topic has been covered before, but it's something that's often mentioned & I know many of us are in the same boat.

Myself, I'm very happily married to a wonderful sexy woman who I've been with for 18 years- married for 15 of them.

I have my very own girl I've been online with for almost a year now, my sweet lisa. (talking to her as I do this actually)

I've had various online things & plan on meeting 'someone' in a few months for a r/l encounter. A strictly no-sex encounter I might add, & my wife does know- she doesn't know however, that I'll be packing some ropes....

Curious myself to hear of anyone's experiences- please let's not let this be spoilt by 'r/l is better' comments. I think that's what stops many people on forums talking about online relationships.

Is your marriage a happy one? Why do you do it? Would you leave your spouse for your D/s partner? Would you meet them in r/l? Is is cheating?
When does it become cheating?

Tojo

[michelle~]

Tojo,

I know there are other married souls here, searching and hoping to find a way to fill this missing puzzle piece into their life. For whatever reason, the spouse cannot/will not participate and some of us do not share our exploration with them. Some of us even have personal ads posted here. *cough

Is it cheating? Yep. The question remains, ...~when~.. does it become cheating? Generally the legal definition of sexual intercourse must include penetration. But honestly, perhaps cheating begins as soon as one begins a relationship with a partner that includes private, intimate moments without the complete knowledge of the spouse.

The question remains, how does one intergrate D/s play into their life and still maintain a good marriage, especially if the spouse does not know?

Sigh...

from one imperfect being....

[maddie]

My husband and I had a long talk about this, more than one, actually. We established some pretty firm limits for me, specifically because it's so hard to determine where that line lies.

It's very easy to get caught up in things around here. It takes a lot of willpower, at times, to stay true to my limits. I think I've been pretty good about it, though. There are times when it'd be very easy to cross them, knowing the chances are good my husband would never know. But too many secrets, too many slip-ups . . . It all adds up over time.

Do I wish I could do more? Sometimes. But I have been married nearly 15 years and he's stuck by me this far. I'm not going to do anything to risk that.

[SheepishJaina]

I've been married for less than a year, but been with my husband for 5 years as a couple, and known him for 18 years now. (I realize i'm only 24. we met in first grade...) My husband knows about my O/L Master and vice versa.

I cannot honestly say where the future will take my relationship with either men. For now I am living in the moment. My husband takes care of me and loves me. My Master takes care of me and loves me. Both are very important men in my life at this point, they just do different things. Do I wish they were the same? yes. In the long run it will save someone from being hurt. Either way I know I will wind up hurt. I'll lose one or the other. Yet it is a choice i freely make out of need for a part of my life that is not filled.

I believe that we can love more than one person in life. We could even live out our lives happily with one person without ever realizing that there's a "more perfect" person out there, or we may find that we love another person but are already with that "perfect" person.

[orchid]

wow - this is one thread i will definitely have to come back too - not enough time to read and properly respond right now but i WILL be back!

[katie_21]

Is your marriage a happy one? No marriage is happy all the time.
Why do you do it?
Would you leave your spouse for your D/s partner? I wouldn't leave my husband for ANYONE.
Would you meet them in r/l? no
Is is cheating? FOR ME, yes it is cheating. You can cheat with your heart just as much as you can cheat with your body parts. However, this is my personal belief...I'm not saying that all of you out there are cheaters. It is not my place to judge and everyone has different opinons and different defintions of what cheating is.
When does it become cheating? AGAIN..personal belief...when you give your heart to someone else that isn't your spouse...

[Sir_G]

Hmmmn interesting thread. When does cheating become cheating. Cheating becomes cheating as soon as your conscience tells you you are. We as a species are adept at telling ourselves what's ok and what's not. We could convince ourselves white was black if need be.

I think the bottom line is would you mind if your partner found out about the things you have said, done etc. online or in real life. And would they mind if they found out. What would be their reaction.

It's a line I walk everyday. I am in an online relationship and in R/L my wife doesn't share my penchant for BDSM. She is aware of my online activities but I certainly don't think she would necessarily like or approve of what I say or do. And may even consider it cheating although she has said that if there is emotional investment, that's when it becomes cheating. I don't agree with her on that but I think that is the difference between guys and girls. Can we love more than one person at a time? I think you can. Do I believe in poly relationships? Absolutely.

I think I'm am more in touch with what I want and who I am than I have ever been at any time in my life. I have made it clear to her that I have to follow my heart when it comes to that. If we expressed our hearts desire in the first place and followed that desire there would be no need to cheat, lie or do any of those things. I think we have a long way to go when it comes to being true to ourselves.

[Timberwolf]

My woman whom I've been getting extremely serious with online is married. But I've got something he doesn't, access to the real her. I don't feel the least bit bad about it, to be honest. And neither does she. I won't go into public detail about someone else's marriage but as a generalization, I think peopel try and romanticize marriage into the be-all, end-all where you find one person who fulfills each and every single need you could possibly have.

I'm sorry, that's one in a million fairly tale stuff. Do some people find it? Yes, they do. But not all marriages are that way, nor should they realistically be expected to be.

The only cheating as far as I'm concerned would have been if she'd continued to leave herself in a position where she had to cheat herself out of being who she really is.

Can you love more than one person at once? Of course you can. Anyone who has more than one child can answer that question (I should hope). Do I feel like we've done anything wrong? Not in the least. If that makes me the bad guy in some people's eyes, so be it.

[MsUther]

I dont have anything to contribute with to this thread, really. But I wanted to tell you all that I think you all are so brave and strong and I love that you share this topic with the rest of us. It cant be easy, not one thing or the other.
Good luck to you all. Big hugs and lots of thoughts.

:rose:

[LadyFyreWolf]

What Timberwolf said.

[cookiecat]

My very first d/s online (and very first ever) relationship was with a married man. (I am single but have been married) We discussed this often - he did not consider it cheating UNTIL he got caught. How can "playing" or just talking be cheating? But as time goes on, how can you not be handing someone your heart along with your orgasms!?

Losing this relationship was hard but knowing I was the "other woman" was even more devastating - and kind of icky. Although I wouldn't take away the experience it has definitely changed me. I realize it was my choice to be involved in this situation but that brick wall around my heart is stronger than ever.

My question to those with spouses/partners who are unaware of this situation is: how would you feel if you knew your partner were doing the same things you are doing here or in IM?

I hope I don't sound judgemental because I really am not. Every situation is different. I'm here because the people in this forum are an open-minded bunch...hopefully me included!

I have read that some of you have tried to approach your partner to incorporate this in to your real life. These desires are strong. Some of us believe we can love more than one person in life. Do we share our heart, body, mind with more than one person? And how would I feel if I knew my partner were sharing a part of himself with someone else that was so important, so intimate?

Sighs. It's an interesting question and I envy those who have clear-cut opinions either way. Trust is an essential part of any relationship r/l or online and it's certainly something that is earned. Done rambling....will continue listening since it's so very interesting to hear all sides.

[pixie_dust]

My husband and I have been together for seven years. Only in the last year have we developed a level of comfort in which we've been able to discuss BDSM, and have been learning and discovering more and more about each others pleasures and interests. In that, we are both very fortunate to be able to fulfill each others needs and desires both physically and emotionally.

On another note, however, he also shares an O/L relationship with someone he met in chat several months ago. They have become very close friends and share everything from day to day activities to their most intimate "bedtime stories". He also has had several "flings" with others he has met in chat.

Is it cheating? IMO, it would only be cheating if he were trying to deceive me, and keep it secret. I feel that to cheat, there has to be a level of deceit or dishonesty on ones part. He has made all of his O/L activity aware to me, so I feel no level of threat to our relationship.

[cookiecat]

On another note, however, he also shares an O/L relationship with someone he met in chat several months ago. They have become very close friends and share everything from day to day activities to their most intimate "bedtime stories". He also has had several "flings" with others he has met in chat.

Is it cheating? IMO, it would only be cheating if he were trying to deceive me, and keep it secret. I feel that to cheat, there has to be a level of deceit or dishonesty on ones part. He has made all of his O/L activity aware to me, so I feel no level of threat to our relationship.

thanks for sharing that pixie_dust - it is so interesting to know how r/l couples integrate on-line into real life. again - thanks....

[maddie]

I am very, very lucky that my husband shares my interests in BDSM. Of course, that makes me think that I should be happy enough with what I have and not feel tempted to play online. But he has discovered, to his delight, that the longer I hang around here, the more creative we get and the more I initiate play.

[~hellish one~]

Is your marriage a happy one?
i like to think so. no one has the perfect marriage, but yes, we are happy and love each other dearly. he knows about everything i do online and he's always been fine with it. we've been together for nearly 10 years now and have 2 children. i know he even comes online sometimes to talk with women. it doesn't bother me one bit. as long as we are honest with each other, that is all that matters. :)
Why do you do it?
he knows i need BDSM in my life. we'd divorced at one point and i had a couple of BDSM relationships. after those ended, i tried to go back to my vanilla life with my hubby. i realized it was impossible for me to do. the more i tried to forget about my submissiveness, the more i dwelled on it and the more i craved it. i swear it's like a drug...the more you get...the more you want, and when you don't get it at all, boy do the withdrawals suck! luckily we were able to open up to each other this time around and have talked countless hours on the topic. i now consider him to be vanilla with a lil kinky side ~grins~ he's really not into the whole deal, but every now and then he'll fancy himself a Dominant. you'll never find me complaining!
Would you leave your spouse for your D/s partner?
never. without a question. when i am online, i don't lie to anyone about being married. i am very upfront with that knowledge. just as i wouldn't want to lie to my husband, i wouldn't want to mislead anyone i met online.
Would you meet them in r/l?
no, i would not.
Is is cheating?
as someone else pointed out, i think it was Gregsta, it becomes cheating when your conscience tells you so. how can it be cheating if both spouses know and talk about the other's online activities?
When does it become cheating?
the cheating begins when you try to hide things from your spouse. but that is just my opinion. there are different levels of cheating. i know some people would say cheating is cheating and that's final. but if i were a clueless spouse and found out my husband was exchanging erotic emails with another woman online...as opposed to him actually going out and screwing another woman....yeah...i'd be a little less upset!

[cookiecat]

hellish one & maddie - thanks for sharing. to see r/l couples being honest & open & trying to make it fit is great & oh-so refreshing...it really gives me a new perspective. :32:

[orchid]

wow, there have been some excellent answers here so far and i think it just goes to show that in this, as in all things, we will all differ...

Is your marriage a happy one?

most of the time it is, yes but not always. i don't think that any marriage will be 100% happy, 100% of the time.

Why do you do it?

i don't have an online Master / significant other but i do participate in a fun RP with Oz and have recently joined the Academy and will be taking part in tasks there so i suppose that counts. my Master waivers in this lifestyle while i do not. these activities keep it real for me in His down times. it is difficult for me when He turns himself on and off as my Master, though i continue to treat Him the same all the time. these activities help keep me grounded in my true self. that's why i do them.


Would you leave your spouse for your D/s partner? Would you meet them in r/l?

to be honest, i don't know. it would depend on the other person and the situation as a whole. i love my Master with all my heart - we have been together for 14 years, married for 10 and most of the time, our relationship fulfills me...the key here is the words most of the time. the other part of the time is an ugly time of readjustment, failed expectations, etc. if i was to find someone who i felt could keep me fulfilled all the time, and thus i would live a happier life overall, i would probably consider it. i realize that sounds harsh but i wanted to be honest. of course, i like to think that my Master and i are soulmates, meant to be together forever with nothing that can come between us but the simple fact of the matter is that i don't think anyone can answer that question until they are in that situation.

Is is cheating?

i don't consider my current activities cheating, no. my Master is aware of what i am doing though not necessarily every word that is spoken, every feeling that lives within me during that time. i have not given my heart to another. yes, i have allowed another to instruct me to perform an act that involved sexual currents but my Master was aware of the task, had read it and was right there when i performed it.

When does it become cheating?

for me, it becomes cheating when either one of is hiding something...obviously it is being hidden because we have strong feelings that it would not be appreciated by the other party. there is so much more to this than meets the eye - these are difficult questions to answer. i dont think they can be answered simply.

just my 2 cents
respectfully,
orchid

[Ozme52]

Good to know I'm doing my part!! :cool:

[Sir_G]

If I may make an observation, everyone that has responded to this thread has made it clear that their partners are aware of their online activities. This says to me that there is a healthy communication going on between the spouses concerned and at the end of the day, being in a relationship is about communication.

Being open and honest about our needs, wants and expectations is as I said in my previous post, is paramount to getting them met in one way or the other. Someone once said "you have not because you ask not..." and how are our spouses/partners to know if we don't ask or talk to them about it.

On the upside since my wife has been reading my stories, she has taken to calling me Master occasionally and is even a little more willing to go places she hasn't been in the past.

In a way this place has taught me to be true to myself and what I want and need. Peoples willingness to share in an open and honest way has opened my eyes to many possibilities I would not have normally considered and my marriage would likely be a pile of ash by now.

So thank you to all who have shared in this thread and many others. And Tojo a very timely topic to choose and post on. Onya mate.

On a totally unrelated topic "Go West Coast" for the grand final and St George for the Rugby!

[His_pita]

Is your marriage a happy one? Why do you do it? Would you leave your spouse for your D/s partner? Would you meet them in r/l? Is is cheating?
When does it become cheating?


I was married for 18 years. Over the years problems within the marriage took their toll until I was very unhappy and wanting out. I didn't know how to get out however. I had no education, no money, and a child to consider. So I stayed and prayed.

I met my Joe online and fell crazy in love with him. We talked online for 10 months. During that time we made plans to be together. We each went through divorces and once they were final Joe came for me. We had never met face to face until the day he came to take me to the home he set up for us.

Yes, I cheated on my husband by talking to and falling in love with another man. For me it became cheating when my heart said yes to my Joe.

Would I do it again? Yes, I have guilt about the way it happened. But, I have never been happier than I am with this man.

[Rabbit1]

I was married for 18 years. Over the years problems within the marriage took their toll until I was very unhappy and wanting out. I didn't know how to get out however. I had no education, no money, and a child to consider. So I stayed and prayed.

I met my Joe online and fell crazy in love with him. We talked online for 10 months. During that time we made plans to be together. We each went through divorces and once they were final Joe came for me. We had never met face to face until the day he came to take me to the home he set up for us.

Yes, I cheated on my husband by talking to and falling in love with another man. For me it became cheating when my heart said yes to my Joe.

Would I do it again? Yes, I have guilt about the way it happened. But, I have never been happier than I am with this man.


Well I was not going to comment on this ---but it seems a lot of people feel online relationshops are cheating on their spouse ---

My feeling toward this as long as it is online only ---it is a fantasy ---no more than watching a move and having a fantasy about being the one that love is being made to --by the actor

or a man seeing a sexy woman walking down the street and wondering in his mind what she would be like in the sack.

Fantasy has always been a great escape for those who are unhappy in a relationship ---like reading romance novels -----

In the past I had this same problem ---a sub of mine ---got to feeling guilty that she was cheating on her husband ---and we had never met face to face.

there is nothing to feel guilty about ----adultry or cheating is physical ---just because you think about something does not make you guilty of it ---or I would be in prison for thinking about killing a lot of assholes ---lol

I am glad you met Joe and things worked out for you ---and you have nothing to ever feel guilty about----

[Ozme52]

Well I was not going to comment on this ---but it seems a lot of people feel online relationshops are cheating on their spouse ---

My feeling toward this as long as it is online only ---it is a fantasy ---no more than watching a move and having a fantasy about being the one that love is being made to --by the actor

or a man seeing a sexy woman walking down the street and wondering in his mind what she would be like in the sack.

Fantasy has always been a great escape for those who are unhappy in a relationship ---like reading romance novels -----

In the past I had this same problem ---a sub of mine ---got to feeling guilty that she was cheating on her husband ---and we had never met face to face.

there is nothing to feel guilty about ----adultry or cheating is physical ---just because you think about something does not make you guilty of it ---or I would be in prison for thinking about killing a lot of assholes ---lol

I am glad you met Joe and things worked out for you ---and you have nothing to ever feel guilty about----


And for some, not even then. It depends on what a couple has agreed upon in advance.

[StillBehindBlueEyes]

Is your marriage a happy one?
Happy no, long yes, 25 years.

Why do you do it? The kids started college and my homeschool career was done. I had an angry sullen husband who refused my advances, and told me I rejected him in the same sentence. I felt alone and ugly. I wrote to be alive. I wanted to practice my sex writing and then wanted to post it. Here fit, the Academy called, I joined and met a man who swept me off my feet.

Would you leave your spouse for your D/s partner? I would have said no a year ago. Now I’m not so sure. I don’t want to leave. I want to be happily married but I don’t know what to do. More and more I fantasize about selling books so I have money. I have none. Have not worked outside the home since my son was 3. Gave my life to my family, was a stay at home mom. I know that if hubby would just try I would be able to go back to that life, but I see no interest.

Would you meet them in r/l? No, unless I get a divorce I will not be meeting. That is why my first Master left me.

Is is cheating? Yes, it’s cold and cruel but I know I’m hiding, I’m emotionally involved with another man. Do I feel evil, No. Every time I go to him and he refuses me, “I’ve got a headache,” (seriously) I feel a tension in my that only pain can relieve or the arms of a cyber lover.

When does it become cheating? When you know inside that it’s cheating. I knew it from the first task I performed. I remember feeling a gratitude in me that filled me and made me smile.

Ok I didn’t mean for this to be a sob story. I laugh more now than I ever have. Every giggle I type represents two that I actually had explode from my body. This place gives me a joy that is just not in my real life. I know I’m doing wrong but sometime you just have to go with what makes your life bearable. Here my opinion counts and no one tells me to be quiet. I make people laugh, smile and get horny. What more could a girl ask for. I’ve even learned to Dom a bit. Giggle.

So I guess what I want to say is I just want to have fun, and I’m so thankful that I’m not judged here. The only time I get angry here is when I feel someone is being held to a silly rule of society. I want to be free here. I think that is why most of us are here.

[Tojo]

Well I sure don't feel as if I'm cheating- my wife knows I talk to women in r/l & online- I always have.

She may not know every word of what I say, nor would she want to.

I imagine she'd be shocked by some of the things I say, perhaps she'd be hurt, but here's the thing: she knows I love her.

I've told her a million times I flirt with women, she's had them come up to her & tell her how much they admire me, or that I'd make a great father for their kids.

She's secure enough to know that I'm not going to have sex with anyone, never have, never will. She knows that I always come home to her.

She knows she's my #1. While I may have loved other women, I never one time thought of leaving her for them, nor did I promise to do so, or even hint that I would.

My wife also knows that if I never spoke to anyone but her, I'd be a dead boring husband- just like the other ones who go to the pub, watch TV & grunt at their wives.

I'm alive, thanks to my 'girls' I thank those of you who are on this forum every day.

Tojo

[Timberwolf]

"Well I was not going to comment on this ---but it seems a lot of people feel online relationshops are cheating on their spouse ---

My feeling toward this as long as it is online only ---it is a fantasy ---no more than watching a move and having a fantasy about being the one that love is being made to --by the actor"

I'm sorry, sharing the most intimate details of your existance with another human being is not a fantasy. Regardless of the format it's done in. And those details are a hell of a lot more important than any sexual act could ever hope to be.

[cariad]

I wish I did not agree with you Timberwolf.

cariad

[michelle~]

We are but mere carbon based life forms albeit with the ability to reason.....in other words......human.

We need,
we feel,
we yearn to be touched,
whether it be physically, mentally or spiritually.

We strive for that 'belly to belly', either in r/l or through the usage of those wonderful 26 little letters that march across our screen.

Never feel quilty by the presence of this need.

[His_pita]

I'm sorry, sharing the most intimate details of your existance with another human being is not a fantasy. Regardless of the format it's done in. And those details are a hell of a lot more important than any sexual act could ever hope to be.


I agree with you Timberwolf.

Rabbit, I can agree with you that it might not have been cheating if it was kept strictly on a superficial fantasy type basis. I had those kind of online relationships before my Joe and didn't think I was cheating on my husband. The cheating came when I gave my heart to Joe. When he became the center of my life and when I filed for divorce to be with Joe. My husband was clueless to my actions at this time so I was both a liar and a cheat. I don't believe in making excuses for my behaviour. I did it and I own up to it. Just saying. :)

[cadence]

So now that I have posted my introduction (not fully), I am goinig to respond to this thread, which is what prompted me to post my introduction in the first place.
Yes i have an online D's relationship and yes it is strictly fantasy. However, considering my current relationship which has been very long term and without sex for quite awhile, I would consider meeting r/l. But I know I will not because yes I consider that cheating, and yes what I do now is considered cheating. All I can say is that I have a need that I want met, I do not want to beg for it, unless it involved the lifestyle which it does not.

[StillBehindBlueEyes]

I so understand the begging.
It sounds like we might be in the same boat. Want a paddle. Giggle.
Begging is only fun when it's in context.
Sbbe

[orchid]

i just want to add that i think there can easily be just as much real emotion attached to online relationships, phone relationships etc as there can be in real life ones

i think that it is a delicate balance that will be different for each person / couple

[maddie]

It is a delicate balance. It's very hard, sometimes, to know where the line is and it's easy to drift past it without noticing, even with the best of intentions.

[hugsnkisses]

This topic certainly strikes home for me. I struggle with it everyday. I am currently engaged to a wonderful man, who unfortunately does not share in my interest to the lifestyle. I have found myself more and more intrigued over the months, and having an increasing desire to learn more. I tell my fiance about everything, and even incorporate much of my play here into our bedroom in the form of stories. I am lucky in the sense that he is quite open minded and willing to experiment. However, I am a very open person and find myself becoming closer and closer to some people on this site. I always have in the back of my head, a concern that my fiance would not approve. I frequently ask him if he is still comfortable and do my best to keep everything open. At best, it's a very complicated situation!! Just thought I'd share :)

[Ozme52]

Curiousin....

Better to find out now just how appealing the lifestyle is to you... and how much he can commit to joining you in it... than to get married and be disappointed and feel stuck in a marriage you don't find fulfilling.

[Tojo]

Just what I was thinking Oz, that saves me trying to work out how to say it.

Be sure curious- be very sure. Marriage is not something to play around with.

That much I do know- I was married at 23, with the gut feeling that it wasn't going to work. It didn't & the scars are still there.




Tojo

[ElectricBadger]

When does it become cheating...for certain, it has nothing to do with physical penetration. Rape is not cheating, but there is sex. The emotional aspect, therefore, is the true essence of the thing; but betrayal likewise cannot happen when permitted, so those same feelings or actions, with the knowledge and approval of a spouse, are not illicit.

So to me, betrayal occurs when you act on an emotional connection that is in conflict with your relationship to your spouse.

Ultimately, however, everyone must settle their own accounts and decide what type of person they are, and what they need out of life, and find a way to reconcile those.

[Ozme52]

When does it become cheating...for certain, it has nothing to do with physical penetration. Rape is not cheating, but there is sex. The emotional aspect, therefore, is the true essence of the thing; but betrayal likewise cannot happen when permitted, so those same feelings or actions, with the knowledge and approval of a spouse, are not illicit.

So to me, betrayal occurs when you act on an emotional connection that is in conflict with your relationship to your spouse.

Ultimately, however, everyone must settle their own accounts and decide what type of person they are, and what they need out of life, and find a way to reconcile those.

I'm real strong in my agreement with that statement.

[_ID_]

I'm real strong in my agreement with that statement.

+1

[Warbaby1943]

Curious myself to hear of anyone's experiences- please let's not let this be spoilt by 'r/l is better' comments. I think that's what stops many people on forums talking about online relationships.

Is your marriage a happy one? Why do you do it? Would you leave your spouse for your D/s partner? Would you meet them in r/l? Is is cheating?
When does it become cheating?

Tojo


My question to those with spouses/partners who are unaware of this situation is: how would you feel if you knew your partner were doing the same things you are doing here or in IM?

Is my marriage a happy one. Yes.

Why do I do it? Because though my wife is a sexy and sensual woman she is not at all interested in anything kinky and I have been for some time now only never admitted it.

Would you leave your spouse for your D/s partner? I could not do that. There are too many other lives it would affect and devastate.

Would you meet them in r/l? In a heart beat. I dream of meeting Aussiegirl all the time but that is all it will ever be, just a dream.

Is is cheating? Technically I guess it is but it isn't hurting a thing even if my wife were to find out about it. It would be embarrassing yes but not earth shattering.

When does it become cheating? I guess at the time I would actually see her I would then know I was going to cheat because I know I would not be able to control my feelings for her if I could actually reach out and touch her.

question to those with spouses/partners who are unaware of this situation is: how would you feel if you knew your partner were doing the same things you are doing here or in IM? I would probably feel hurt but at the same time I would ask the question why was she looking else where. If at all possible I would remedy the situation. My wife on the other hand has had many opportunities to participate in BDSM activities but doesn't want to. I really think if she knew about this site she would have no problem with it. Even if she knew about Aussiegirl and knowing I would never be able to actually meet her, I think she would not be overly upset. Actually I have wanted to tell her for a long time but never got the courage and probably never will, to be perfectly honest.

In any case I do not intend to stop any of my activities here in this forum. I could never give Aussiegirl up even if I wanted to and I know I never will want that. I didn't set out to love her but I can't reverse that now. So if it is wrong, so be it. I am the one who will have to answer for any wrongs I commit and I can't see my love for her as being wrong in any way.

[Aussiegirl1]

Warbaby, your honesty really touches me, thank you.

I don't have a partner to have to consider, so that does tend to make things easier for me. However, I am very aware of the married status of both Tojo and Warbaby. In Tojo's case, I would not have even considered meeting him if his wife did not know about it.

Warbaby has explained his situation very well in the post above.

What I like, is the way that I see that they both still love and care for their wives very much. In fact, it only seems to make them happier people and I am sure that only makes their wives happy too.

[TomOfSweden]

So to me, betrayal occurs when you act on an emotional connection that is in conflict with your relationship to your spouse.


As far as I'm concearned I whole heartedly agree with this, but I would like to add one more thing. My ex-wife would consider it cheating if I would discuss our sex life in any way and in any form when she wasn't present. Even on an anonymous forum like this. Even though I thought she was a bit too touchy about it, I did respect her wishes. My point is that it's not really relevant what can be considered cheating by most people. The only thing that carries any weight is what your partner judges as cheating, no matter if your conscience is intact.

For me cheating is not an option. If I need to cheat, I also need to break up with her.

[Warbaby1943]

Warbaby, your honesty really touches me, thank you.

I don't have a partner to have to consider, so that does tend to make things easier for me. However, I am very aware of the married status of both Tojo and Warbaby. In Tojo's case, I would not have even considered meeting him if his wife did not know about it.

Warbaby has explained his situation very well in the post above.

What I like, is the way that I see that they both still love and care for their wives very much. In fact, it only seems to make them happier people and I am sure that only makes their wives happy too.

Sweetheart,

You are my sunshine and you do make me very happy. I don't ever want to lose you or the special feelings we share. My life has only gotten better since the day we met.

[StillBehindBlueEyes]

My question to those with spouses/partners who are unaware of this situation is: how would you feel if you knew your partner were doing the same things you are doing here or in IM?

I hope I don't sound judgemental because I really am not. Every situation is different. I'm here because the people in this forum are an open-minded bunch...hopefully me included!

.

First I’d slap him up side the head with a magazine (all right no I wouldn't, but I’d want too) and ask him.

Why did you belittle me when I shared my most intimate fantasy of this with you?

Why do you tell me you have a headache when I crawl up the bed and lick your thigh?

Why do you take any “please let’s try this” as a “Your not good enough.”

Why am I never good enough?

I could go on awhile but that is the basics.
I believe what I am doing here is keeping me from exploding. I know I’m guilty, but honestly I don’t feel guilty. I feel like this is the bandage for my marriage. I don’t harass him for sex, I don’t beg for hugs that are as satisfying as hugging a telephone pole. I'm waiting this period of our life out, and I hope I'm patient enough to win because in general this man is the best husband a woman could ask for, he's just in a stressfull, yucky period in his life.

It’s so hard not to judge. I do it myself everyday. I must admit in the last 5 years so many perceptions have changed. Who would ever believe that I would be come a prolific porn writer, an exhibitionist, and a person with so many wonderful friends I’ll never meet?

Sending Giggly hugs out in all directions.

[Warbaby1943]

First I’d slap him up side the head with a magazine (all right no I wouldn't, but I’d want too) and ask him.

Why did you belittle me when I shared my most intimate fantasy of this with you?

Why do you tell me you have a headache when I crawl up the bed and lick your thigh?

Why do you take any “please let’s try this” as a “Your not good enough.”

Why am I never good enough?

I could go on awhile but that is the basics.
I believe what I am doing here is keeping me from exploding. I know I’m guilty, but honestly I don’t feel guilty. I feel like this is the bandage for my marriage. I don’t harass him for sex, I don’t beg for hugs that are as satisfying as hugging a telephone pole. I'm waiting this period of our life out, and I hope I'm patient enough to win because in general this man is the best husband a woman could ask for, he's just in a stressfull, yucky period in his life.

It’s so hard not to judge. I do it myself everyday. I must admit in the last 5 years so many perceptions have changed. Who would ever believe that I would be come a prolific porn writer, an exhibitionist, and a person with so many wonderful friends I’ll never meet?

Sending Giggly hugs out in all directions.

Sbbe, I love your honesty and I agree with you that you need not feel guilty. Keep up all your trying with him and someday it will all work out, I'm sure.:wave:

[cookiecat]

sbbe & warbaby - thanks for your replies. i really hope i didn't come off as so judgemental when i originally posted the question; i know my feelings at the time i posted the question were affected by my experience.

being new here, it's very insightful to hear other experiences & other points of view & i appreciate the honesty.

everyone deserves love in their lives & how we choose to find love & nuture it is what makes us each different.

cookie

[StillBehindBlueEyes]

sbbe & warbaby - thanks for your replies. i really hope i didn't come off as so judgemental when i originally posted the question; i know my feelings at the time i posted the question were affected by my experience.

cookie

Thanks Cookie
I didn't feel judged. I did feel that maybe I could explain a little better what is going around in my head. I know I'm not the only one here in the same situation.

I'm finding that talking this out, seeing how people react is really helping me see with a clarity I had not been able to achieve on my own.

It is very strange to me that posting my most personal thoughts here for the world to see has made it possible for me to see my life a bit less emotionally. It’s amazing how you end up chasing your tail after awhile.

[Warbaby1943]

sbbe & warbaby - thanks for your replies. i really hope i didn't come off as so judgemental when i originally posted the question; i know my feelings at the time i posted the question were affected by my experience.

being new here, it's very insightful to hear other experiences & other points of view & i appreciate the honesty.

everyone deserves love in their lives & how we choose to find love & nuture it is what makes us each different.

cookie

cookie,

You have every right to your opinion and I only tried to answer it as honestly as I possibly could. I really didn't think of you as being judgmental at all. Again, it was your true and honest opinion as far as I was concerned.

I know 2 months ago I never would have believed I'd be in love with anyone on line but it happened. I also know that no matter what, I will never be willing to give up Aussiegirl unless she would request that I do so for her happiness.

I for one appreciated both yours and Tojo's questions. It gave me an opportunity to speak my mind on an excellent subject which we all should give serious consideration to.

Keep up the excellent posts is all I can say.:wave:

[Aussiegirl1]

I know 2 months ago I never would have believed I'd be in love with anyone on line but it happened. I also know that no matter what, I will never be willing to give up Aussiegirl unless she would request that I do so for her happiness.



Thanks honey,

I too have been amazed at the changes that this year has brought to me. I have never been happier.

[katie_21]

Aussiegirl and Tojo....GET A ROOM (LOL)

[frankee]

aussiegirl, Warbaby & Tojo,

i love how open and honest you all are about your relationship. i think it's wonderful:)

you're all very lucky to have found each other.

*hugs & kisses to all three*

[dzire2pleeze]

I find myself continually coming back to this post ....why? ~shrugs~ i have no idea. Several times now I have written and not posted, for various reasons. Therefore, I am answering only one question here.

Is it cheating? Cheating is defined as "deceiving" so if your significant other -online or in r/l - is unaware of what is going on ...to me, it's cheating.

Unfortunately, too many people want the best of both worlds. They know that if their significant other discovered what they were doing, either online or r/l, it wouldn't sit well with them, so they deceive. They want that "caribbean cruise" without having to pay for it. Maybe it's the only vacation they'll ever get.

Unfortunately, unless the significant other knows and gives their consent, you are leaving the door wide open for someone eventually getting hurt.

Online we have access to so many different people to whom we can become attracted. All offer us something. All fill a need. Relationships online have about as little a chance of survival as marriages in Hollywood.

I can only say for myself that if i am deceiving someone ...i am cheating...and the moment I am cheating, is the moment I have decided to deceive another.

So this time i'm posting and if it doesn't make sense to anyone else... oh well ... i just don't want to come back to this thread anymore.















When does it become cheating?

[Warbaby1943]

I find myself continually coming back to this post ....why? ~shrugs~ i have no idea. Several times now I have written and not posted, for various reasons. Therefore, I am answering only one question here.

Is it cheating? Cheating is defined as "deceiving" so if your significant other -online or in r/l - is unaware of what is going on ...to me, it's cheating.

Unfortunately, too many people want the best of both worlds. They know that if their significant other discovered what they were doing, either online or r/l, it wouldn't sit well with them, so they deceive. They want that "caribbean cruise" without having to pay for it. Maybe it's the only vacation they'll ever get.

Unfortunately, unless the significant other knows and gives their consent, you are leaving the door wide open for someone eventually getting hurt.

Online we have access to so many different people to whom we can become attracted. All offer us something. All fill a need. Relationships online have about as little a chance of survival as marriages in Hollywood.

I can only say for myself that if i am deceiving someone ...i am cheating...and the moment I am cheating, is the moment I have decided to deceive another.

So this time i'm posting and if it doesn't make sense to anyone else... oh well ... i just don't want to come back to this thread anymore.















When does it become cheating?

I guess we can rationalize anything any way we want. However, if I though for one moment that when my wife found out about me being in a forum like this or in a relationship with someone like I am that it would affect my marriage, I would give it up in a heart beat. I could never stop the love I feel for someone like Aussiegirl but that is something I would have to live with.

My wife knows from all the time I spend on the computer that something is going on. Hell she is in the other room right now and can hear all the keys I am pressing as I type. She has even asked me if I have a girlfriend on line and I have said yes. Which of course she chooses to not believe.

If it is cheating by any definition then I am willing to live with that on my conscience just for the opportunity and privilege to stay in contact with all here who have become such a large part of my life, especially Aussiegirl.

If anyone can't live with themselves because of an on line relationship then that is something they must personally deal with. Me I choose to keep Aussiegirl and all my other friends and not lie to my wife. I just don't volunteer any information she doesn't specifically ask for. If you define that as cheating, then so be it.

[mina]

Great post, d2p.

[dzire2pleeze]

Warbaby ... it's not my definition, it's defined by Webster and i have never even talked to the man, so i don't know if he knows what he's talking about. I was just posting what i feel in my heart sounds right in my head....i could care less how anyone else defines it.

What works for me doesn't work for you and what works for you doesn't work for someone else....see...smiles. There is no one in this world we have to answer to, but our own conscience.

I think you know me better ...the only finger i point is at myself.

Anyway, you told your wife, so it's not cheating ...giggles ...so what are you hollering at me about????

"Everytime I try to get out, they pull me back in" (think that's a quote from the Godfather).

~blows you a kiss~



P.S. thanks mina ~hugggggs~

[Warbaby1943]

Warbaby ... it's not my definition, it's defined by Webster and i don't even know the man, so i don't know if he knows what he's talking about. I was just posting what i feel in my heart feels right and there was a reason for it....i could care less how anyone else defines it. just venting, sweetie.

I think you know me better ....i don't point fingers at anyone, unless i'm pointing it at myself.

kiss... hug

d2p sorry if you thought I was attacking you, I wasn't. I was just expressing an opinion that in my heart I too feel is right, at least for me, and yes I do know you better and never would think of you in any light but brilliant. I think one of the greatest things this forum has to offer is that of differing opinions yet mostly expressed in a caring manner. I guess when it gets down to it, I too was venting. Still friends, I sincerely hope. :bigkiss:

[fantassy]

I agree with you dzire. But more important than how I, or Webster, or even the person involved in the online relationship defines "cheating" is how the spouse would define cheating. A friend of mine divorced her husband when she discovered he had an online relationship. He had never spoken to the woman and have never met her. He promised to discontinue the relationship with the online woman he loved, but the damage was done, and he is now a divorced man. My friend felt she could no longer trust him. The deceit was cheating in her point of view.

fantassy

[dzire2pleeze]

Still friends, I sincerely hope

Are you kidding????? You're the bestest!!!!!!!



The deceit was cheating in her point of view.

See and her pov is what mattered in the end. ~big sighs~ I wonder if he had discussed it with her first, if things might have been different?

[fantassy]

See and her pov is what mattered in the end. ~big sighs~ I wonder if he had discussed it with her first, if things might have been different?[/COLOR]


Sighs, not sure. Once he started to get emotionally attached, she still probably would have objected, but I think, she would have still trusted him enough to stay with him when he promised to end the online relationship had he been open with her. Sad because they were both my friends and they have 3 small children.

[StillBehindBlueEyes]

Gosh isn’t it silly the way we let morality slip into a place all about hurting the one you lust after. Giggle. Honestly I’m tired of feeling bad, I don’t care if I’m guilty or innocent, (Ya giggle) I’m here to have fun and enjoy life.

I'm not going to worry that so and so got a divorce because they were intolerant. I’m just going to enjoy playing wildly and free in a way I’m not allowed to at home.

If I get caught so be it. I sinned, I’ll take the punishment. If he’s so intolerant, (shrug) his loss. If he won’t give me a kind word someone else will. I don’t want a divorce at this time in my life, but I do want someone to tell me I’m sexy, lovely, worth the effort. I feel that cyber is a much safer and kinder way to go about this. Might catch a virus but not an STD.

My advice is do what you have to, your partner is.

[fantassy]

[QUOTE=StillBehindBlueEyes;129068]I’m just going to enjoy playing wildly and free in a way I’m not allowed to at home. . . .
I do want someone to tell me I’m sexy, lovely, worth the effort. QUOTE]

And so you should, sbbe! Life is to be enjoyed. You deserve to be told you're sexy, lovely and worth the effort! Way to acknowledge the risk and GO FOR IT!!!

fantassy

[Timberwolf]

"If he’s so intolerant, (shrug) his loss."

Thumbs up.

[Warbaby1943]

I don’t want a divorce at this time in my life, but I do want someone to tell me I’m sexy, lovely, worth the effort.



Sbbe I think you are all the above and then some. And you are definitely worth the effort. I love those blue eyes.

[Tojo]

Excellent post SBBE, kind of says it all in a few words.


Tojo

[frankee]

Gosh isn’t it silly the way we let morality slip into a place all about hurting the one you lust after. Giggle. Honestly I’m tired of feeling bad, I don’t care if I’m guilty or innocent, (Ya giggle) I’m here to have fun and enjoy life.

I'm not going to worry that so and so got a divorce because they were intolerant. I’m just going to enjoy playing wildly and free in a way I’m not allowed to at home.

If I get caught so be it. I sinned, I’ll take the punishment. If he’s so intolerant, (shrug) his loss. If he won’t give me a kind word someone else will. I don’t want a divorce at this time in my life, but I do want someone to tell me I’m sexy, lovely, worth the effort. I feel that cyber is a much safer and kinder way to go about this. Might catch a virus but not an STD.

My advice is do what you have to, your partner is.


i agree 100%. Sexy and smart ;)

[StillBehindBlueEyes]

Giggle thank you all very much. Blush

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

welll i am just now starting out on all of this kinky stuff but i'd like to think my marriage is a happy one and if i get into this as much as my wife is, then i'd have to say she'd be the only sub i'd need, she's to much of handful as it is. i'm content with having just her, hell it took me a long time to get her, i plan on keeping her :)

[StillBehindBlueEyes]

welll i am just now starting out on all of this kinky stuff but i'd like to think my marriage is a happy one and if i get into this as much as my wife is, then i'd have to say she'd be the only sub i'd need, she's to much of handful as it is. i'm content with having just her, hell it took me a long time to get her, i plan on keeping her :)

Giggle, I so wish, I so dream, it would be so awsome if hubby would think this way. Smiles, good luck sir

[katie_21]

welll i am just now starting out on all of this kinky stuff but i'd like to think my marriage is a happy one and if i get into this as much as my wife is, then i'd have to say she'd be the only sub i'd need, she's to much of handful as it is. i'm content with having just her, hell it took me a long time to get her, i plan on keeping her :)

aww :)

I am not a handful though! You make me sound bad lol

[Ozme52]

aww :)

I am not a handful though! You make me sound bad lol


...which is good in my book!

[Ozme52]

welll i am just now starting out on all of this kinky stuff but i'd like to think my marriage is a happy one and if i get into this as much as my wife is, then i'd have to say she'd be the only sub i'd need, she's to much of handful as it is. i'm content with having just her, hell it took me a long time to get her, i plan on keeping her :)

If? I say go to work boyo!! You know what needs to be done. :cool:

[katie_21]

Oz, your posts always make me laugh! :)

[DemonGoddess]

Just my poorly articulated thoughts.

We cann't go to Mr. Webster for an answer as to what is and what isn't cheating. A person can cheat on their spouse with out ever taking a step away from the keyboard. They can also have a physical relationship with someone other than the person they're maired to without it being cheating.

Any time one person in a relationship engages in a relationship with a third person (beyond the context of friendship) without letting their partner know about it it's cheating.

Emotionaly cheating has been pretty well discused and I agree that so long as your partner knows about it it's not cheating but there hasn't been alot of discusion about physicaly cheating on ones partner. If both parties agree that they want to bring a third person into the relationship then I don't consider it to be cheating but if either one of the people in the relationship isn't comftorable with it than it's cheating.

As for my personal experiance... I've had two relavent online relationships that apply to this topic. In the first it was just a friendship. The guy involved was someone I met in the chatroom back in the days of Voodoo. He was married and his wife didn't know about the site. As we started talking and getting to know eachother he started feeling guilty and like he was hidding something from his wife and so he stopped comming around.
The other relationship was with a guy who was still married to his wife but they weren't living together. He actually gave her my screenname and she and I still chat everyonce in awhile. He and I don't talk anymore though. We didn't have a falling out or anything. I think it got weird for him and I lost interest in him.

[storm]

[QUOTE=My wife on the other hand has had many opportunities to participate in BDSM activities but doesn't want to.QUOTE]

That seems to be something that I keep reading on this site lately.
The whole 'it's my wife's fault for not liking what I do' type thing.

It's okay to cheat because you have 'needs' and your significant other is not open minded enough to satisfy you?

That's exactly why I'm starting to think this place is not as non-judgemental as I thought when I first arrived. And why I find I'm spending less and less time here.

[StillBehindBlueEyes]

[QUOTE=Storm.QUOTE]

That seems to be something that I keep reading on this site lately.
The whole 'it's my wife's fault for not liking what I do' type thing.

It's okay to cheat because you have 'needs' and your significant other is not open minded enough to satisfy you?

That's exactly why I'm starting to think this place is not as non-judgemental as I thought when I first arrived. And why I find I'm spending less and less time here.

Wow Giggle storm.

What a strange statement. Does it really offend you that so many of us are enjoying ourselves, or is it that some of us don't feel like cheaters because we are cyber that is so upsetting to you?

My hubby would consider the fact I masturbate cheating, the fact I fantasize cheating so I’m damned if I do or don’t. I’m not having trouble with this so why are you? I’m not asking you to be my friend, just relax. If he found my stash of toys Wow would I be in so much trouble. Giggle I just imagined him picking up the dildo with the swiffer duster extension handle seated in it. LOL “You did what with this.” Giggle

I don’t believe what we’ve been doing in this thread has been judgment, I think it’s been our own little therapy group. So say something therapeutic or come into games and play with us instead. :D

[Timberwolf]

.

[MsUther]

[QUOTE=My wife on the other hand has had many opportunities to participate in BDSM activities but doesn't want to.QUOTE]

That seems to be something that I keep reading on this site lately.
The whole 'it's my wife's fault for not liking what I do' type thing.

It's okay to cheat because you have 'needs' and your significant other is not open minded enough to satisfy you?

That's exactly why I'm starting to think this place is not as non-judgemental as I thought when I first arrived. And why I find I'm spending less and less time here.

I believe you would benefit from reading over the threads and posts once more.
I cant see anything as judgemental as your post right here.

[storm]

Wow Giggle storm.

What a strange statement. Does it really offend you that so many of us are enjoying ourselves, or is it that some of us don't feel like cheaters because we are cyber that is so upsetting to you?



Not at all, if you read what I said you will probably realse that. All power to you. It's placing the blame on the person you choose to betray that 'offends' me.

[Timberwolf]

"It's placing the blame on the person you choose to betray that 'offends' me."

Let's dicount the ridiculously loaded way you've chosen to word your posts for a second.

So you think it would be better if people stayed in unhappy situations instead of looking for something better? If the other partner simply isn't willing or able to budge, and it leaves someone in a position of genuine unhappiness, they should just sit on it?

[storm]

Not at all.
But that's exactly what we are talking about isn't it?
Staying in an unhappy situation, but choosing to find something better as well.

Take not of the last part of the above statement.

And in response to your 'high horse' comment earlier, I hardly think that's what I'm standing on.

I've cheated, I've been cheated on, and I've been the other woman (but knowingly and not). I've done things that a number of people would believe are completely void of any morals.

But the mistakes have made have been MY MISTAKES.

[Timberwolf]

"But the mistakes have made have been MY MISTAKES."

And I suppose this is where you and I differ. I refuse to see cheating as universally a "mistake". Marriage simply isn't that sacred. Or at least, if it's become so much work that you have to choose between one unhappiness or the other, it isn't anymore, even if it once was.

[Tojo]

Easy guys.....

Please be nice?? :hubba:


Tojo

[cariad]

Okay, I have got to go out and will be offline for most of today, so will unable to watch how this develops. At the moment it is certainly heated and looks as though it could start to get ugly. We have had more than enough hurt feelings in Forums over the past few days; so I am going to lock this thread for a little while. The topic is something which affects many members so I would hate to see the discussion closed permanently, but think it is perhaps time to chill out.

cariad

[cariad]

Smiles, as the nice Mr Tojo said...


Easy guys.....

Please be nice?? :hubba:


Tojo

Please remember that it is not acceptable to say something like "playing online with a married person is wrong"; but it is acceptable to say something line "I beleive that is unwise to play on with a married person because..."

Unlocking this great thread...

cariad

[Warbaby1943]

Smiles, as the nice Mr Tojo said...



Please remember that it is not acceptable to say something like "playing online with a married person is wrong"; but it is acceptable to say something line "I beleive that is unwise to play on with a married person because..."

Unlocking this great thread...

cariad

I'm sorry but I think you are being too biased in what you think is acceptable. All Adults have their own way of saying things and it seems your statement is very opinionated to say the least.

Most adults can debate without someone telling them the words too use to do that debating. Sorry but this is just my opinion and you see it isn't even on the subject at hand. I just don't think this site needs such stringent guide lines to be placed on their words. You have your way of expressing yourself and I and others may have a different way. It doesn't mean any of us are wrong. That's what makes the world go round.

[Widget]

I think all Cariad means is that to be careful in the choice of wording. It is easy to misunderstand online when people are talking. Debate is good, hurt feelings are not.

[Warbaby1943]

I think all Cariad means is that to be careful in the choice of wording. It is easy to misunderstand online when people are talking. Debate is good, hurt feelings are not.

Still an adult does not need to be told what words to use. If it becomes flaming then it can be dealt with at that time.

[Tojo]

Still an adult does not need to be told what words to use. If it becomes flaming then it can be dealt with at that time.


Oh not you too WB!! :bdsmsmile:
Let's all do what auntie cariad wants- I don't want her to get riled....

The moderators (poor buggers) just enforce the rules, the same as the police do....& do a damn fine job of it. If we have no faith in them, we might as well pack up our whips & chains & leave.

http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4022


Tojo

[Timberwolf]

"we might as well pack up our whips & chains & leave. "

I think the forum has had more than enough of that this week already, thank you very much.

[Talia]

"we might as well pack up our whips & chains & leave. "

I think the forum has had more than enough of that this week already, thank you very much.

More than enough


WB....please don't misunderstand Cariad. She was just trying to point out using exclusives and quifiers can be trouble, and has in this thread. Lumping everyone in one category is wrong and will cause problems.

Now, on with the discussion......

Anyone else want to post something in regards to the topic?

[storm]

I think debate no longer becomes healthy debate when personal attacks replace argument points.

I don't think there were hurt feelings by either party in this situation, all is good.

[Talia]

I think debate no longer becomes healthy debate when personal attacks replace argument points.



You're exactly right, and that's why cariad closed the thread for a little while. So we can now move on with this thread and the original topic.

[storm]

We posted at the same time, which is why that came across as rude as it did.
Oops

[Talia]

We posted at the same time, which is why that came across as rude as it did.
Oops

Actually, I didn't take it as rude but a point being made...we will just move along from here with the original topic.

[Rabbit1]

I think personal feeling were going to get hurt ---when people start attacking someone elses opinion as being from High Horse comment---that is stating that you think their oppinion is not as valid as yours---it tends to go down hill from there ----you have every right to disagree with someones oppinion mine included ---but mine or yours is not from a high horse point of view ---it is from the point of view we wish to have ---What one person sees as a high horse point of view ---is just a plain point of view to others ---lets stay on topic ---state your opinion ---but respect the right of others to differ with you --and not be high horse about it

yes I do not think anyone lost their temper at this point ---but I do think it was wise to close the thread and let things cool off before someone did ---loose it ---this is to help protect all the members --as then we have people choosing sides ---and it going down hill from there ---and once it turns into a flaming contest ---then member get banned ---so lets step back cool off and have fun ---not take others oppinions too seriously ---because we all will never totally agree on everything

[BorderCollie]

Hmmmmmm,
This is a really interesting thread right here!

I'm VERY happily married to my sub, and she is fully aware that I surf porn more that probably any other thing on line.
I'm a member here and on alt.com, although not a financial memeber here 'cause it get expensive for us Aussies.

She knows that I'll never cheat on here period! But...........................

While she is a sub and a good one, she only really comes into her own when she's been drinking. Loses her inhebitions (spelling) she says.
While I'm a bondage Dom from way back, I enjoy shooting the shit with others however have NO time for the wannabes.
I'd dig to get her, a sub female to use........ However I'd not have sex with her. No if's No buts.

The problem here??? She thinks that she is fat, but she's not. Packing a little bit of emergency skin maybe??? Definatly NOT Fat!
Nobody is perfect, I'm solid/nugget type build but bugger me I'm bald with a goatee. Call it a great face for radio.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we are far from 'nilla, but we'd be 100% perfect together if she'd get around the needing a beer or 10 to actually feel as attractive as she is....

She came from a totally 'nilla marriage, and is now a bondage freak, when she see's past her, hold back.

By the way.... Is it just me or is everyone to uptight to reply to stuff, on alt.com there are very small clicky groups. I weed out the wannabe's too, but ya still gotta get to know people.

[fantassy]

One of these days you'll have to tie her tightly when she's sober or keep her bound until she's sober and carefully examine and kiss and praise every inch of that body.

fantassy

[caged]

A fascinating thread. It's very noticeable here and in the chatroom how many bdsmlibrary-ers have 'vanilla' spouses. Obviously it is something for each individual to wrestle with. For myself, I have been there, sneaking around online behind my long-term partner's back, rationalising it. I hated it.

I wanted to say something positive here, which is this: If your heart's desire is to live out your deep need for bondage, submission or domination... and you can't do so in your current relationship... you will probably find it unbelievably liberating to make the change in your life that allows you to do so. It's like breathing after holding your breath...

[suchaminx]

caged,

what a wonderful description, 'like breathing after holding your breath'

~smiles and hugs~ minx x

[Tojo]

Yes a lovely way of putting it, caged. I knew a 'caged' somewhere else, same thought provoking comments, but different spelling.

I think more could be said about the positives of being able to fullfil an important part of ourselves in such a relatively harmless way.



Tojo

[Ozme52]

I've stated what I think... and stand by it because it works for me. That's the real point. We all have to follow our own morals and standards. Mine may or may not work for you.

If you are unsure and wavering in your opinion, then you get to hear from a lot of us. What's most important to remember, is I actually have a high horse from which to opine..... :rolleyes:

[StillBehindBlueEyes]

A fascinating thread. It's very noticeable here and in the chatroom how many bdsmlibrary-ers have 'vanilla' spouses. Obviously it is something for each individual to wrestle with. For myself, I have been there, sneaking around online behind my long-term partner's back, rationalising it. I hated it.

I wanted to say something positive here, which is this: If your heart's desire is to live out your deep need for bondage, submission or domination... and you can't do so in your current relationship... you will probably find it unbelievably liberating to make the change in your life that allows you to do so. It's like breathing after holding your breath...

Oh I just love the way you expressed that. I'm blue holding my breath at the moment, but hope to breath soon.

Oh and Oz I just love your High Horse.

[MasterC]

Here you go brattyone- this topic has been covered before, but it's something that's often mentioned & I know many of us are in the same boat.

Myself, I'm very happily married to a wonderful sexy woman who I've been with for 18 years- married for 15 of them.

I have my very own girl I've been online with for almost a year now, my sweet lisa. (talking to her as I do this actually)

I've had various online things & plan on meeting 'someone' in a few months for a r/l encounter. A strictly no-sex encounter I might add, & my wife does know- she doesn't know however, that I'll be packing some ropes....

Curious myself to hear of anyone's experiences- please let's not let this be spoilt by 'r/l is better' comments. I think that's what stops many people on forums talking about online relationships.

Is your marriage a happy one? Why do you do it? Would you leave your spouse for your D/s partner? Would you meet them in r/l? Is is cheating?
When does it become cheating?

Tojo

First off, let Me say that My wife and I are swingers. now with that siad, i will answer the questions.

No, My marriage is very rocky.I have a real life slave who worships Me.I do it because My wife will not satisfy My BDSM needs. As far as would I leave My wife for My slave? In a heartbeat if circumstances were different.
R/R?, Yes. Have already.No, In My situation its not cheating. I believe cheating is done without consent or knowledge. My wife knows and supports it. As I said, we are swingers.

Master C

[ObeyMe]

Well, being too lazy to read every post, (sorry), I HAVE to add to this, My BDSM life began online, about a year ago.

Became very enamered with the whole control aspect, met a real painslut, whom btw has a R/L Master, that just could keep up with her needs, so she was allowed o/l release sessions I'll say.

I digress, I after several months and numerous trials, took a sub, she was married as am I. Her and I had a wonderful repoire, and were as much friends as a D/s couple. This lasted for several months, until her other Master contacted Me....ooops, lol, seems she had blown her cover, so I ended the relationship, due to her lack of honesty.

Some time went by, became close off and on to several more, but never took another as Mine. Well, thoughts of leaving home to be in a position to live this R/T F/T were dancing in My head. I had mentioned some aspects of BDSM to My wife, but got very little response. Disappointed as she and I have had a true love since meeting, but My need to be a Master was calling hard.

Finally she confronted Me about My online activities, Thank God! After a very stressful day, I took her out for a drink, neutral ground you know, and quietly explained My needs, My desires and presented her with a question, Are you Willing to Serve Me As I Need It?

Thanfully she said yes!!!! Asked I be patient as she grows, of course I was ecstatic! Oour relationship has NEVER been better, nor has the sex.

All that said to say this, she considered My o/l time cheating, she said the hiding, the secretiveness in her mind constituted cheating. I of course, disagreed as I never met the person(s).

Wwe got thru all of that, but I told her I had lots of friends and aquaintances online and was not going to stop communicating that way. she only asked I be open, honest and maybe involve her, introduce her etc. All of which I was so very happy to do.

So far shes become friends with a couple of the girls I know, and Wwe've even had 2 cyber sessions with a girl I'm close to, together....now that was hott!

Am I happy, ohhhhhhyeah

Is Oour marriage a good one? One of the best I know or have seen.

Why do I do it? I really dont know, I love making girls cum, and as long as hardgirl, (wife) is aware of it, and understands the need I have to do it, I really dont sit around and analyze it.

Would I leave My wife? Never.

Would I meet My O/L sub/slave? If it was an honest relationship, shes able to accept My wifes authority over her, and shes bi, Hell Yes!!

Do I consider it cheating? I'm not touching that, but in My/Oour case, no, not now anyway.

[Mishka]

Is your marriage a happy one? Why do you do it? Would you leave your spouse for your D/s partner? Would you meet them in r/l? Is is cheating?
When does it become cheating?


Confession is supposed to be good for the soul...

I did not read the inbetween pages, but sharing this would be good for me.

My husband and I almost divorced a year ago. Things had been up and down for a few years and then it got worse. It's too long a story to tell, but after a long heart to heart we really wanted to work it out. We are happy now, "for better or for worse" often pops into my head. It was with determination and the fact that we've always been best friends that made us proceed.

I had begun some months before that to explore my sexuality online. I had been holding back and stuffing it down for religious reasons for so long I finally just completely rebelled. He is very conservative, and it was a large part of things not working out. Certainly not the only thing, but a major one.

I only recently started exploring BDSM, and it is with someone I have known almost a year now online. He is a comfort to me. Actually it has improved my marriage, because I am not frustrated and upset and feeling like I'm knocking my head against a wall. I can accept my husband for where he is at more graciously and explore things with him more patiently.

I would not leave my husband for anyone. I've had to reassure him of that frequently. He knows I am in online forums for adults only, he knows that it "gets things out of my system". He does not know the extent of things and I don't want him to know.

I actually wouldn't mind meeting my Dom in real life, but not for sex. We're friends, not just online partners. And if this didn't work out we would still get along and be able to talk of other things.

Is it cheating? Yes. I wish I could justify it, I go back and forth with the positives and the negatives. I wish I could be honest about it. I would love to lay it on the line, with the guarantee of him not hating me for it. I'm proceeding cautiously. Our communication is improving, we'll see what happens.

[briansmine]

I've dabbled in it and used it as a form of cuckolding which turns me on immensely in fantasy, but the idea of actually doing it has too many emotional facets that I doubt we'll ever go there IRL.

we get off on it, but I'm sort of lazy about finding playmates and it's hard when I can't rummage in the toy box myself. It's very different from what I'm used to, I guess, and I'll leave it at that.

It was weird for me at first because it does feel like cheating, even with his encouragement.

E

[Domtotrain]

I think that what I am about to say everyone who reads or has posted to this thread will agree is true. Where difficulties exist is in the attempt to personalize or understand how someone could feel that way.

I do these things for me. No one has a right to tell me what to do or how I should live. To a degree, you gift that right to a significant other when you marry or commit. Does anyone truly believe that they will never again have an opposing thought or desire? Is it possibe to share and become one with someone, anyone? Men and woman may orgasam at the same time, but is it the same? Even in that most inimate of expression, differences are profound. It doesnt even fell the same. Afterwards, do they both feel the same? I think not.

I have been married for 28 years. There is nothing that could make me break up and leave my wife. I love her dearly. Yet, according to most definitions, hers specifically, I cheat. When she found out about my online activities she was extrmemly hurt. Probably more so than I have ever hurt her before. We entered professional counseling. We spent months with a BDSM psychiatrist (yes, they exist). Each of us explored our limits. What could she live with and what could I accept. We reached a semi-consensus. It was her belief that once I had an emotional attachment to a woman other than her we surpassed the realm of fun and games into infidelity. I argued that it was just electrons and didnt mean anything. That is not true. My subs mean the world to me and I am as much committed to them as I am to her. Most of us believe that monogomy is a trap and wether we practice it or not is a personal choice. It goes deeper, to the primal level and can never be bred out of us. The urge to procreate is fundemental to exsistance. We can no more eliminate it than we can the need for water or food. It is possible to eat or drink too much and cause physical, real damage. So, it is with procreation.

Procreation as recreation is relatively new in the evolution of man. As we learn and grow our horizons expand. It is conceivable that man of the distant future will regard our attempts as feeble at best.

What I do know is that the repression of desires is counter productive and goes against nature. What possible benefit could i derive by allowing myself to practice self denial? Worse yet, to feel guilty or bad or dirty for having the desires in the first place? Is control of urges what seperates us from the apes? That is too simplistic of an answer. Everyone knows that keeping things bottled up inside is harmful and will eventually lead to a purging that may or may not be appropriate at the time. That is when people truly get hurt.

Which brings us to the simple question, is it cheating to enjoy someones company, character, affection, and desires if you are not their committed counterpart? If you are attracted to someone and you deny and repress it are you better off? What if that someone is of the same sex so the possiblility of procreation does not exist? Have you now rebuked nature itself? If so, what is the source of these desires? Free will?

I could go on asking variations of the same questions and confuse the issue and even argue and debate the other side, however, it comes down to this......"to thine ownself be true." We are programmed as others have pointed out succinctly to consider the feelings of others over our own. To this altruistic motive, I say pshaw. Altruism is a phony concept for it is much like the ideal S/M relationship where the Masochist says, "beat me, and the Sadist says, "no." That is the perfect scenario. With alturism you get every one wanting and needing to give and no one willing to take. The concepts collapse like a super nova. Which starts out as a black hole. Interesting parallel there.

So, what have I said besides there is no right or wrong answer? The question initially raised was perfect in its intent. What and how do you feel about your activities? The operative word being you.

I only present this diatribe to perhaps ease some of the internal conflict I hear in many of these posts and would suggest that more time be devoted to loving and becoming comfortable with yourself.

You are a unique creature of God and God dont make no junk!!!

[Domtotrain]

I think that what I am about to say everyone will who reads or has posted to this thread will agree is true. Where difficulties exist is in the attempt to personalize or understand how someone could feel that way.

I do these things for me. No one has a right to tell me what to do or how I should live. To a degree, you gift that right to a significant other when you marry or commit. Does anyone truly believe that they will never again have an opposing thought or desire? Is it possibe to share and become one with someone, anyone? Men and woman may orgasam at the same time, but is it the same? Even in that most inimate of expression, differences are profound. Afterwards, do they both feel the same? I think not.

I have been married for 28 years. There is nothing that could make me break up and leave my wife. I love her dearly. Yet according to most definitions, hers specifically, I cheat. When she found out about my online activities she was extrmemly hurt. Probably more so than I have ever hurt her before. We entered professional counseling. We spent months with a BDSM psychiatrist (yes, they exist). Each of us explored our limits. What could she live with and what could I accept. We reached a semi-consensus. It was her belief that once I had an emotional attachment to a woman other than her we surpassed the realm of fun and games into infidelity. I argued that it was just electrons and didnt mean anything. That is not true. My subs mean the world to me and I am as much committed to them as I am to her. Most of us believe that monogomy is a trap and wether we practice it or not is a personal choice. It goes deeper, to the primal level and can never be bred out of us. The urge to procreate is fundemental to exsistance. We can no more eliminate it than we can the need for water or food. It is possible to eat or drink too much and cause physical, real damage. So, it is with procreation.

Procreation as recreation is relatively new in the evolution of man. As we learn and grow our horizons expand. It is conceivable that man of the distant future will regard our attempts as feeble at best.

What I do know is that the repression of desires is counter productive and goes against nature. What possible benefit could i derive by allowing myself to practice self denial? Worse yet, to feel guilty or bad or dirty for having the desires in the first place? Is control of urges what seperates us from the apes. That is too simplistic of an answer. Everyone knows that keeping this bottled up inside is harmful and will eventually lead to a purging that may or may not be appropriate at the time. That is when people truly get hurt.

Which brings us to the simple question, is it cheating to enjoy someones company, character, affection, and desires if you are not their committed counterpart? If you are attracted to someone and you deny and repress it are you better off? What if that someone is of the same sex so the possiblility of procreation does not exist? Have you now rebuked nature itself? If so, what is the source of these desires? Free will?

I could go on asking variations of the same questions and confuse the issue and even argue and debate the other side, however, it comes down to this......"to thine ownself be true." We are programmed as others have pointed out succinctly to consider the feelings of others over our own. To this altruistic motive, I say pshaw. Altruism is a phony concept for it is much like the ideal S/M relationship where the Masochist says, "beat me, and the Sadist says, "no." That is the perfect scenario. With alturism you get every one wanting and needing to give and no one willing to take. The concepts collapse.

So, what have I said besides there is no right or wrong answer? The question initially raised was perfect in its intent. What and how do you feel about your activities? The operative word being you.

I only present this diatribe to perhaps ease some of the internal conflict I hear in many of these posts and would suggest that more time be devoted to loving and becoming comfortable with yourself. You are a unique creature of God and God dont make no junk!!!

[newone]

i am 25 male i am a dom by nature and really like to put women in strict bondage i can't kidnape anyone to fullfill my desires only the way i have to marry a woman that understand me and obey me as master can u help me how can i find the right woman and tell her about myself i m not married yet this is my only one way help me

please mail me at secretlearn@yahoo.com



Here you go brattyone- this topic has been covered before, but it's something that's often mentioned & I know many of us are in the same boat.

Myself, I'm very happily married to a wonderful sexy woman who I've been with for 18 years- married for 15 of them.

I have my very own girl I've been online with for almost a year now, my sweet lisa. (talking to her as I do this actually)

I've had various online things & plan on meeting 'someone' in a few months for a r/l encounter. A strictly no-sex encounter I might add, & my wife does know- she doesn't know however, that I'll be packing some ropes....

Curious myself to hear of anyone's experiences- please let's not let this be spoilt by 'r/l is better' comments. I think that's what stops many people on forums talking about online relationships.

Is your marriage a happy one? Why do you do it? Would you leave your spouse for your D/s partner? Would you meet them in r/l? Is is cheating?
When does it become cheating?

Tojo

[Widget]

newone I suggest a personal ad instead of this thread. You might have better luck there.

[Tasker]

I have been married for 19 years this January to a wonderful woman and wonderful mother to our two girls. I love my wife dearly.

In recent years I finaly came to grips with with my attraction to BDSM and began researching as much as I could find on the subject. At first I was doing this without letting the child bride know and I reached a point where I began to lose touch with our relationship as 'nilla no longer did anything for me.
Because I was no longer communicating (first mistake) the child bride began to think I was having an online affair ( I wasn't). I then compounded my error by withdrawing further until eventualy things came to a head.

The long and short of it was that if I had bothered to discuss my feelings with her in the first place I would have learned that she found some aspects of BDSM atracted her. She isnt into the lifestyle as deeply as I would prefer to go but is open minded enough to listen and learn. ( Currently encouraging her to sign up to these forums :) )

As far as online / outside relationships, that is a no go area. Firstly because I would feel like I would be betraying her and secondly because it would wound her deeply. I have done enough of that aready.

My personal aim now is to continue my education in the lifestyle and hopefuly the child brides as well. I have now spent the best part of a day going through the threads on this forum and have barely scratched the surface. The institutional knowledge of the membership of these forums, not to mention the obvious interaction of the members gives me hope that we can find a balance that suits us both, through reading and interacting with others here.

Tasker

[Masterandsub]

My wife and i have only been married for 4 months (together for just over 4 years), and we began experimenting with D/s about 2 years ago. Our D/s life is by no means 24/7, as we only scene when we have the oppurtunity. Being married has only made our commitment as Dom and sub in those scenes all the more powerful - she even likened her wedding ring to a collar on our wedding night... you can see the similarities certainly.

Yours

Master Martin

[tainted Angel]

WOW a perfect thread for me. LOL

I am married and happy. I love my husband dearly and there is no other person in the world who can give me what he does. Our relationship is what we both want and need and within that we push each other to grow and become more.

I am a sub and I crave a lot of things that at this moment in time my husband cannot give to me. We are taking baby steps together into the world of D/s and I adore him for that, he has amazed me and will continue to. He also recognises and appreciates the part of my personality which is submissive which sometimes makes him nervous (I am usually the one in charge of the family and the home)

There are people out there who will question our way of doing things especially as there seems to be a lot of topping from the bottom at the moment but then we have no problem with it so..... when he grasps that things are OK he will take the control, I am just offering it. We both know that at this moment I have the knowledge and so the tone and pace is agreed and I taint it towards him being more in control, as his knowledge and confidence grows he will grow and take on the role more readily.

As for online. We have had detailed chats about this, we have our own agreements. My husband has told me that he has hard limits of things that he simply will not do, that is fair. He is happy for me to seek out experiences outside of us of things that he cannot give me. Now we do not see this as cheating under the rules of within our limits and always being completely honest about it. he doesn't need transcripts but he doesn't want it hidden. The moment it is secret it is cheating. That is the way that I see it.

Emotionally with online you are giving something to someone else that is special and of course this can be seen as cheating just as it would be if that person was in front of you. I do not see the distinction. If I wouldn't do it if they were in front of me I don't do it online. My number one priority is my family and so an online Dom would be my next priority. But my husband gets final say. We are very open with each other so I have no idea how typical that is just that it works for us.

It is crazy sometimes I think because people think of online as being well explicit but the one thing that my husband has pointed out in my conversations that I have with friends who are DOm's is the rhythem and approch of the conversations the 'roles' within everyday talk that at this moment he does not feel confident in. Basically he likes to see me happily talking in my role as sub, not actively doing anything just slipping into easy chat. I hope that makes sense to some.

[tainted Angel]

My wife and i have only been married for 4 months (together for just over 4 years), and we began experimenting with D/s about 2 years ago. Our D/s life is by no means 24/7, as we only scene when we have the oppurtunity. Being married has only made our commitment as Dom and sub in those scenes all the more powerful - she even likened her wedding ring to a collar on our wedding night... you can see the similarities certainly.

Yours

Master Martin

Yep I always tell my Husband that my collor is on my finger!

[Sir_G]

I found your post thought provoking and honest and it would appear you share a similar relationship to my wife and I. I guess the difference is I'm writing from a Dom perspective.

We both have had online relationships, she is currently in one. I on the other hand am not. I believe we both (you and I ) share similar spiritual beliefs that I would like to pursue at another venue (MDS) at a discussional level. Your profile fascinated me and I have been too busy to reply till now, however, I guess I have done something about that.

Of course I could be completely off base and none of the above applies. What ever happens, Well Met and Blessed Be.

[tainted Angel]

Blessings to you, it is definately a comfort to know that our situation is not as bizzarre as we first thought.

[Rhabbi]

I am discovering that, for me, online is harder because the level of feedback I depend on is not always there. I think things aree going well, and discover that I misjudged her understaning. But the committment level is just as intense, and thus the mistakes cause the same damage that they would in real life.

[pyarrie]

Hey, just joined the forum today. I am getting married in May and i was extremely lucky that my fiancee was interested in exploring BDSM with me. We've been together for a bit more than two years. Since I did get lucky in this manner for me online relationship, I feel, are out of the question since he does fufill all of my needs. However, I agree with tainted angel in that if an online relationship is required to have that part of you be expressed than honesty and communication would be a mandatory requirement