Online bullying

A very big problem:


Thee Independant, Wednesday 02 October 2013

More than a million British youngsters being bullied online every day

"More than a million young people are subjected to extreme online bullying every day in Britain, according to the biggest survey of internet abuse."

"The explosion of social networking sites means seven out of 10 13-22 year-olds have now been cyber-bullied, a survey by the national anti-bullying charity Ditch The Label has found."

" Facebook was the most common place for it to occur, with young people twice as likely to be bullied there than on any other social network. More than half of its users said they had been victimised on the site at some point, compared to 28 per cent of Twitter users and 26 per cent of those on Ask.fm."

"“Historically bullying went on in the classroom and it stopped when you got home, but now there’s no escape for young people.”"

""Social networks have a moral obligation and a duty of care to their users to implement tight mechanisms of flagging and reporting systems for cyber bullying, although we all have a responsibility and an opportunity to help fix this.”"

"The results follow the deaths of two teenagers over the summer who were bullied over the internet. Hannah Smith, a 14-year-old schoolgirl who was found hanged at her home in Lutterworth, Leicestershire, after apparently suffering months of internet abuse on social network Ask.fm."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...internalSearch

I ask myself, and who might be interested: WHY? Is it only teen-agers? What makes people bully other people on the net? Is there ring leaders and followers? Why do people just jump in?

Why do the people who are bullied not stop going online, or going on the forum? Why do some choose to kill themselves? (It seems to happen on a fairly regular basis.)

What should the schools do? The parents? The schools mates? The forums? Anybody else?

Is bullying bad upbringing, instinct, what: If instinct, what is it for? I mean, what it the point, in terms of evolution?

Am very interested in views here.

To me, this sounds exactly like the sort of teasing and name-calling that made my schooldays hell for several years in my early teens, except that was in 3D, as we say now. If moving it to a fancy new medium - and one where it's on record for review later - has made the adult establishment take notice at last of the soul-wounding damage it can do, I think that's a big step forward.

I'm reminded of the first time my son got upset by name-calling in his primary school. I took it up with his teacher with no great hope that it would do any good, just so I could say I'd tried: but to my surprised delight she took it very seriously and took us to confront the culprit and make him apologise. I realised that what had changed was a serendipitous by-product of anti-racist policies. By making the teachers aware of the harm done by racist teasing, they'd had to learn that words hurt in any context, and take action even if (as this time) both the kids were white.

As Rowling wisely noted, thoughts can leave the deepest scars.

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Originally Posted by thir

Is it only teen-agers?

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No, it's not only teenagers. Women, especially those espousing feminist views, are constant targets of MRA's especially.

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Why do the people who are bullied not stop going online, or going on the forum? Why do some choose to kill themselves? (It seems to happen on a fairly regular basis.)

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Some have stopped going online, but that's not a solution, that only lets the bullies win. As to why anyone would kill themselves over it, I haven't got a clue. Personally, I laugh at the bullies, and enjoy pointing out just how pathetic they really are. The angrier they get, the happier I feel.

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What should the schools do? The parents? The schools mates? The forums? Anybody else?

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School administrators, counselors and teachers should spend more time disciplining the bullies and less time disciplining the victims. If a bully punches another kid, it's seldom reported so he goes unpunished. If the kid fights back, however, he's given equal punishment to the bully, at least, if not more. Parents of bullies are sometimes a large part of the problem, insisting to the authorities that there child couldn't POSSIBLE be a bully, and then bullying the administration themselves. It's learned behavior, to some extent.

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Is bullying bad upbringing, instinct, what: If instinct, what is it for? I mean, what it the point, in terms of evolution?

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Actually, it's a part of the ingroup/outgroup psychology which has come about through evolution. Ingroup is good, outgroup is bad. When humans lived in small, scattered groups it had a significant survival value, since anyone not in the ingroup was a potential danger.

There has always been bullies. We all grew up with that in school. But in this time of political correctness, the total collapse of the nuclear family, and the rise of the me-centered feel good generation, we have forgotten how to take care of bullies. When I was in school, this usually played out in a vacant lot or an alley somewhere. Some on usually came away with a bloody nose, a split lip and a bruise or two. Now, heaven forbid that we should allow such activities. Our society is being inundated with men with no spine, no idea of how to defend themselves, no concept of manhood or manliness. The persons at fault are very rarely held accountable. The fault is always laid at society, education, government or poor or inhospitable environments.

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Originally Posted by TheDeSade

There has always been bullies. We all grew up with that in school. But in this time of political correctness, the total collapse of the nuclear family, and the rise of the me-centered feel good generation, we have forgotten how to take care of bullies.

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Do you mean that small societies or groups no longer exist, to some extent?

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When I was in school, this usually played out in a vacant lot or an alley somewhere. Some on usually came away with a bloody nose, a split lip and a bruise or two. Now, heaven forbid that we should allow such activities. Our society is being inundated with men with no spine, no idea of how to defend themselves, no concept of manhood or manliness. The persons at fault are very rarely held accountable. The fault is always laid at society, education, government or poor or inhospitable environments.

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I am not with you with this. Do you mean that only men bully each other? That bullying should be allowed? Or that the bullied person should be able to defend themselves? My own experience is that it is a group of people, not one or two persons.

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Originally Posted by Thorne

No, it's not only teenagers. Women, especially those espousing feminist views, are constant targets of MRA's especially.

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Could not find what MRA stand for, exactly.

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Some have stopped going online, but that's not a solution, that only lets the bullies win. As to why anyone would kill themselves over it, I haven't got a clue. Personally, I laugh at the bullies, and enjoy pointing out just how pathetic they really are. The angrier they get, the happier I feel.

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But these are teenagers, not grown ups. A very sensitive period.

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School administrators, counselors and teachers should spend more time disciplining the bullies and less time disciplining the victims. If a bully punches another kid, it's seldom reported so he goes unpunished. If the kid fights back, however, he's given equal punishment to the bully, at least, if not more. Parents of bullies are sometimes a large part of the problem, insisting to the authorities that there child couldn't POSSIBLE be a bully, and then bullying the administration themselves. It's learned behavior, to some extent.

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It sounds like schools are very soft on them, or do not know how to deal with it, maybe laws have not caught up. Forbidding mobiles does not seem to be the answer, you have less control over what happens that way.

I personally think that bullies when identified should be expelled, and reported to the police. In cases of suicide, they are guilty of manslaughter or conspiracy to harm or something like that. Also the hanger-ons should be punished.

But most of all it should be discussed openly, and people who persecute others online should be outed like that cowards they are.


Actually, it's a part of the ingroup/outgroup psychology which has come about through evolution. Ingroup is good, outgroup is bad. When humans lived in small, scattered groups it had a significant survival value, since anyone not in the ingroup was a potential danger.[/QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by thir

Could not find what MRA stand for, exactly.

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Men's Rights Activist.
Basically a group of people (not just men, surprisingly) who feel that allowing women equal rights somehow means their own rights are being trampled upon. In essence, those people who protested in Steubenville when a couple of HS football players were found guilty of rape because they drugged a girl into unconsciousness and dragged her around to several parties, raping her multiple times. They had no empathy for the girl, but were outraged that these two young men might have their futures destroyed over some slut. Real assholes, in other words.

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But these are teenagers, not grown ups. A very sensitive period.

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I don't know about that. I was a teenager once (yeah, long ago, but still...) and I don't remember it being that sensitive. When someone tried to bully me I fought back, as TheDeSade said, away from the school.

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It sounds like schools are very soft on them, or do not know how to deal with it, maybe laws have not caught up.

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Schools are soft on them because any real punishments are protested by parents, usually through lawyers. Consequently they DON'T know how to deal with it. What needs to be done, perhaps, is to start charging the parents with violations, with large fines and possibly jail time. As I said, most bullies learn that they are practically invulnerable because their parents will keep them from being punished.

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In cases of suicide, they are guilty of manslaughter or conspiracy to harm or something like that.

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Good luck trying to prove that. Unless you have emails, texts or videos of the bully actually urging the victim to kill himself I don't see how you can definitively prove that the bullying led to the suicide.

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But most of all it should be discussed openly, and people who persecute others online should be outed like that cowards they are.

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This seems to be the real answer. I've noticed that several instances of bullying online have been stopped when the bully's personal information was revealed, along with transcripts of his bullying. They seem to be real happy to reveal their victim's personal data, but when you turn the tables they run for cover.

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Originally Posted by Thorne

Men's Rights Activist.
Basically a group of people (not just men, surprisingly) who feel that allowing women equal rights somehow means their own rights are being trampled upon. In essence, those people who protested in Steubenville when a couple of HS football players were found guilty of rape because they drugged a girl into unconsciousness and dragged her around to several parties, raping her multiple times. They had no empathy for the girl, but were outraged that these two young men might have their futures destroyed over some slut. Real assholes, in other words.

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yes, I read about that, totally incomprehensible!

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I don't know about that. I was a teenager once (yeah, long ago, but still...) and I don't remember it being that sensitive. When someone tried to bully me I fought back, as TheDeSade said, away from the school.

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Not everybody can, it depends. How do you fight back a whole group? Your reactions often spur them on, idiots as they are.
I remember being that sensitive, and I hated school, as many people do. My only defense was to pretend I did not care.

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Schools are soft on them because any real punishments are protested by parents, usually through lawyers. Consequently they DON'T know how to deal with it. What needs to be done, perhaps, is to start charging the parents with violations, with large fines and possibly jail time. As I said, most bullies learn that they are practically invulnerable because their parents will keep them from being punished.

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But if that is the case, the parents would keep themselves equally invulnerable by hiding behind their lawyers, I fear.

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Good luck trying to prove that. Unless you have emails, texts or videos of the bully actually urging the victim to kill himself I don't see how you can definitively prove that the bullying led to the suicide.

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But the students know, and sometimes it really is found out, and the ring leader is suspended.

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This seems to be the real answer. I've noticed that several instances of bullying online have been stopped when the bully's personal information was revealed, along with transcripts of his bullying. They seem to be real happy to reveal their victim's personal data, but when you turn the tables they run for cover.

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A last resort, I think, seeing how you do the same as the perpetrators, but saying it is ok in a good cause..There is too much of that already.

Maybe the talking about these things in homes and at school AND online can turn the tide. Bottom line, the question I think is WHY they do it, and attack there. I do not mean the individual reasons, but the way they use the net.

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Originally Posted by thir

But if that is the case, the parents would keep themselves equally invulnerable by hiding behind their lawyers, I fear.

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Perhaps, but that will cost them money, and at the least get their attention. And if they have to pay legal fees AND fines, they'll do something to reign in their kids, in most cases.

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A last resort, I think, seeing how you do the same as the perpetrators, but saying it is ok in a good cause..There is too much of that already.

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Self-defense is always acceptable behavior. And when taken off school property there's less likelihood of involving teachers and administrators. And mostly, getting the primary bully (there's always a primary, the others tend to follow his/her lead) away from his pack can really defuse the situation. So many of these people are weak and helpless on their own. Showing your strength in a place where his followers can't see his cowardice can make a huge difference.

And sometimes a knee to the groin, or an "accidental" elbow to the nose as you make a sudden turn, is enough to let them know you can't be bullied with impunity. That's a hard way to go, though. Most of the people the bullies like to pick on are the quiet, non-confrontational ones.

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Maybe the talking about these things in homes and at school AND online can turn the tide. Bottom line, the question I think is WHY they do it, and attack there. I do not mean the individual reasons, but the way they use the net.

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The WHY is basic in-group/out-group dynamics. The way they use the net is based on the perceived anonymity it provides. Exposing them and their actions for what they are has been helpful there, at least.

And mostly, getting the primary bully (there's always a primary, the others tend to follow his/her lead) away from his pack can really defuse the situation.

A good start, but does not always seem to solve the problem. I think it is a mistake to stop there - the others continue, and someone else could step into the role as ringleader, or the ringleader becomes a matyr.

And sometimes a knee to the groin, or an "accidental" elbow to the nose as you make a sudden turn, is enough to let them know you can't be bullied with impunity. That's a hard way to go, though. Most of the people the bullies like to pick on are the quiet, non-confrontational ones.

I understand your idea, but that means that you have to know who the ringleader is, and that you have to be sure you do not have the whole hoard of other bullies over you. And, as you say, the ones picked are often non-aggressive people.

I think the long term solution is to work with the attitude towards it, to make enough people realize how cowardly that kind of thing is. The problem is obviously on the rise, and something will have to be done. I find it vital that the net not be allowed to grow like a jungle with no ideas of right or wrong, and neither the rulers nor the police can really do anything about that. It is up to the users. An awareness that behavior on the net is not gratis or completely removed from any other life.


The WHY is basic in-group/out-group dynamics. The way they use the net is based on the perceived anonymity it provides. Exposing them and their actions for what they are has been helpful there, at least.

I think you are right: it is a combination of net and group behavior. You can then start asking why there are so many followers in groups, why the dynamic is the way it is. Maybe one answer is that the schools are more concerned with academic standards that with citizenship ones, but one is at least as important as the other.

Another growing treatment for the problem is the ability of cell phone cameras to provide high-definition video of bullies in the act, which CAN lead to exposing their actions. Doesn't always work, though, unless the community as a whole is willing to actually deal with the bullies and not just let them off because of who their parents are. Community attitudes have GOT to be changed, though. Just because a kid can play HS Football doesn't mean he can get away with doing whatever he wants. Or at least it shouldn't.

This bullying goes on in real life just as much as online.

Which is going to be bound to happen when you allow children access to the internet unsupervised and in large numbers.

Learning how to deal with a bully is part of growing up imho, one of many not so pleasent natural parts of the human social condition.

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Originally Posted by denuseri

Learning how to deal with a bully is part of growing up imho, one of many not so pleasent natural parts of the human social condition.

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I agree with you here, but one of the ways to deal with a bully is to report the bullying to parents, police, school administrators, etc. and actually have them do something about it. Telling a kid, "That's life. Deal with it." is what causes kids to commit suicide. It's not the best way to deal with it, but they are dealing.

Should social networks do more about bullying?

Arguments for and against:
http://www.debate.org/opinions/shoul...cyber-bullying

I am sorry but it seems to me that it is the fault of the parents of said bully not the social media site.

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Originally Posted by denuseri

I am sorry but it seems to me that it is the fault of the parents of said bully not the social media site.

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You're assuming that the bullies are all legally children, still living at home, under the control of their parents. That's not always the case. But even when it is, I think the social media sites have to accept the responsibility of at least investigating claims of bullying.It's not like users of those sites have any realistic expectation of privacy, after all. They should be able to check out any complaints by examining messages sent by the alleged bully to the complainant and determine if further investigation is warranted. They should even have the requirement of notifying local police if they suspect such bullying. These things can be implemented in the sites usage policy, which every member has to agree to when signing up. Hell, if they can monitor your "private" communications to target specific advertising, they can monitor for suspected illegal activities as well.

there will always be bullys and there will always be victims of bullys, no one can watch their children 24/7/365 I believe when parent get involved in most cases the bullying get worse and the victim feels even more violated, the best you cna hope for is the ones being bullied stand up for themselves and kick the shit out of the bully as far as being bullied on the internet that is easy to stop do not allow the child on the net, and serious how do you bully someone online? DO YOU USE ALL CAPS AND CUSS WORDS? these days in the usa any sort of threats could be called terrorism so yeah report report report and the bullies these tough upper middle classed white kids will end up in juvie getting bullied by kids who have never thought about bullying someone on the net

I've been reading this thread, and debating posting for a couple of weeks. This morning ... well, here goes.

As has been said before me, there will always be bullies, on the internet, but also in real life. It happens in adults and in children, though as adults we are more prepared psychologically to work through it than teenagers are. Not saying that all adults are able to, as times bullying can be taken to different extremes as adults. There are ring leaders, who in my opinion, are often driven more by their own insecurities and acting out aggression that they can't process. The followers are those in between who have just enough of their own shit happening where they walk in someone else's shadow and get some gratification for their own demons in being part of something vicious.

Its easy to say to a kid, stop going online if you're being bullied, but how often is so much of their social world good and bad driven by whats on their friend streams, or what's happening online? They are raised where technology is always on and available, and in my opinion, it lies on the parents to guide and watch over their kids where this is concerned. They are your kids, you are not there to always be nice. Sometimes boundaries are needed for their own safety, not just physical but mental as well. If a child, heaven forbid, is at a point where they have made the choice to take their own life, there are so many people i think who could have stepped in to help before it got that far that in a way we all failed them. But we also have to remember, that even before the internet, and having had a childhood loss myself, this choice sometimes just is. The factors could all be what we try to help the one going thru it, but sometimes its just not enough for them.

As a parent, my child has already been bullied. We are talking grade school, before technology has even truly touched their innocence. In a society where old school ways are frowned upon, and we are told to work through it, talk through it, i followed the guidance of the schools. And then my child was physically harmed, and the school failed on a major level. They focused solely on coaching the bully, counseling, and completely forgot that there was a child that was harmed. I found out at the end of the school day as an afterthought by a teacher who wasnt even my child's. And when confronting the school, it was all about protecting the rights of the bully. So, i teach my child now what i believe is right.

No one lays a hand on you without your permission. People say awful things, you don't acknowledge them. Remember that they are sad people who don't know what happiness is. Remember that you are loved. And if someone ever lays their hands on you first, you do ALL you can to protect yourself, and i will stand behind you 100%.but if you touch them first! then you and i have a problem.

Bottom line is bullying will be online, in real life, it will be everywhere ant any age. It is our job to support our children and stop giving so much credit for the forum of where it is happening and focus more on helping the ones going through it regardless. Set boundaries, set limitations for your children so they know where they can shut down and be safe.

All my opinion ... of course.

Let’s be serious here, online bullying? Don’t you think we are getting a little mixed up here? In the classroom or even at work I think bullying takes place, but the only people that understand it is going on is a few co-workers. In school it is normally contained to the class or in the odd case the whole school knowing.

On line however is a different ball game. It is done on social networks where families, friends and half the world can read the rhetoric. This is not bullying, its verbal abuse and threatening behaviour. Once the insults or threats are published they remain for all to see until it is removed by the abuser.

Verbal abuse in any form can be devastating to some of us older gender, but to the young children that have no idea how to handle it they can be driven to suicide. Most have no one to turn to, and I mean the parents will be the last to know in most cases. Abuse on the social networking never comes from a friend it is always from a person that likes the safety of cyber space. The person that is being abused is now caught in a trap. They don’t want to go on the network for fear of their abusers, but they must to socialise with their real friends.

Face book has got to be the worst offender on the planet. Even when told of abuse they never act, they just come back with a page full of legal disclaimers. No one wants big brother, but until these social sites start taking responsibility for their negligence in policing their networks on line, abusive bullying will continue.

Be well Ian