Love and BDSM----Question?

Does love really have anything to do with BDSM?

Or Is love a seperate entity from BDSM and vice versa?

Can you love BDSM and not love the partner your doing it with?

Or do most think in order to do or be part of a BDSM Relataionship one must be in love?

I ask these questions because, 1) I have had BDSM relationships that were intense but we were not in love and 2) I don't believe love and BDSM necessarrily have to be linked in order for a good BDSM realationship to exist and last.

All I see is 1) physical attraction to such a point ya would have sex with the person 2) Mental attraction where the two of you have many simular interests in the lifestyle and some out of it and 3) Respect and and trust must be present. AM I wrong on these accounts or what?

Do you have to have sex to have a BDSM relationship? Is sex love? Does love necessarily require sex? A lot depends on your definition of 'Love' and this is one of the most nebulous things to define in the history of definitions.

BDSM sessions can be intense and intimate without involving much in the way of sexual contact and therefore border on what you may call love. BDSM requires a lot of trust as well as intimacy and both are commonly regarded as being essential for a loving relationship.

I would say that it is more likely that a deep, loving relationship would develop between a BDSM couple than a vanilla couple because that trust has to be there for the relationship to even start. Its not essential for it to exist (in the same way as it is not, in truth, essential to love someone to sleep with them you just have to have the lust) but it is more likely to develop.

I've seen many who can do it either way - personally for me I want the whole package :D

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Originally Posted by DomCt2002

Does love really have anything to do with BDSM?

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Yes.......and no. Does love have anything to do with sex. Same answer. You do not have to be in love to have either......love brings things to a different level

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Originally Posted by DomCt2002

Or Is love a seperate entity from BDSM and vice versa?

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Well you have to love BDSM to enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by DomCt2002

Can you love BDSM and not love the partner your doing it with?

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Sure, It just depends on what you are trying to get out the relationship.

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Originally Posted by DomCt2002

Or do most think in order to do or be part of a BDSM Relataionship one must be in love?

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Now there is a key word....relationship. Define your terms.

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Originally Posted by DomCt2002

I ask these questions because, 1) I have had BDSM relationships that were intense but we were not in love and 2) I don't believe love and BDSM necessarrily have to be linked in order for a good BDSM realationship to exist and last.

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Good then you found someone who was compatible with the limits you both set.

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Originally Posted by DomCt2002

All I see is 1) physical attraction to such a point ya would have sex with the person 2) Mental attraction where the two of you have many simular interests in the lifestyle and some out of it and 3) Respect and and trust must be present. AM I wrong on these accounts or what?

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No you are not wrong with these points.

I think you need to be clear about what you are looking for......what you are looking for is a play partner........

I've always had some connection with my bdsm play partners in the past.

Right now I have my Sir and I love him with all my heart. That love inspires me to give Him my best, if I didnt love him I wouldnt be able to give him All of me. Alone I am nothing, but in His arms, I am all things.

In bdsm you Must have trust. And trust begets love.

Love makes life richer in all its emotional facets, and that also applies to every sexual experience, including BDSM "play" - despite all resentments others have against the word "play" in that context, I find it very fitting, because child-like playfullness is one of the main character traits neccessary to experience own limits (but I digress...)

That doesn't mean that you can't have mind-blowing, earth shattering sex without love or love someone deeply and satisfyingly without a sexual undertone. But having someone there in your darkest hours who holds you in his/her arms and doesn't need any explanations, someone who knows you faults and shares in your learning experience instead of pressuring you to become flawless, builds a trust and bond that goes so deep, it makes every sexual experience with that person double in depth.

Yet I'm quite convinced that such a close relationship isn't always the thing that is best for us. It's something we grow into, having different kinds of relationships along the way that help us discover ourselves, until factors like age, illnesses and personal losses make us appreciate the value of permanent commitment and stable circumstances, and in turn make us ripe to commit ourselves to real love.

But as love can't really be covered by simple descriptions (and especially not my clumsy wordings:)) there are exceptions to every rule, and it also isn't unheard of that true love has grown over time from the seeds you mentioned, DomCt2002, so "or what" is probably quite close ;)

I have to agree with gem on this one. It's a "for me" thing. And like Daes says, without love I would not be able to give him all of me. Anything else to me, I think, would be nothing more than scening or role playing.

However, not everyone is concerned with that and some just wanna play and have fun so, like thrall said, it depends on the couple involved. And as long as both parties agree, there is no right or wrong.

But, you yourself said "1) I have had BDSM relationships that were intense but we were not in love and 2) I don't believe love and BDSM necessarrily have to be linked in order for a good BDSM realationship to exist and last. "Had" being past tense, I'm assuming the relationship didn't "last." So maybe you answered your own question. *smiles*

Ah I am still at 52 years old learning and growing and I think thats how all BDSM relationships should be too.
So, interesting responses from all thank you all I will check back to see if there will be more.

I've had Masters in the past whom I did not love, but the relationships were not emotionally fulfilling to me. I think that people can have BDSM and can have vanilla sex without loving their partner. However, I have the best of both worlds now, since my Master is also my husband and I love Him very much and am very devoted to Him. And since I am able to have that and see what a terrific combination it is, I personally would not want another BDSM relationship where I did not love the other person. I personally am hardwired to equate sex with love. I can have sex without love, but it's not fulfilling. And since I can and do have both, I won't go back to BDSM without love. Then it would be no different than my first marriage and I don't want a repeat of that!

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Originally Posted by DarkPoet

Love makes life richer in all its emotional facets, and that also applies to every sexual experience, including BDSM "play" - despite all resentments others have against the word "play" in that context, I find it very fitting, because child-like playfullness is one of the main character traits neccessary to experience own limits (but I digress...)

That doesn't mean that you can't have mind-blowing, earth shattering sex without love or love someone deeply and satisfyingly without a sexual undertone. But having someone there in your darkest hours who holds you in his/her arms and doesn't need any explanations, someone who knows you faults and shares in your learning experience instead of pressuring you to become flawless, builds a trust and bond that goes so deep, it makes every sexual experience with that person double in depth.

Yet I'm quite convinced that such a close relationship isn't always the thing that is best for us. It's something we grow into, having different kinds of relationships along the way that help us discover ourselves, until factors like age, illnesses and personal losses make us appreciate the value of permanent commitment and stable circumstances, and in turn make us ripe to commit ourselves to real love.

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This is funny (except it's not): i am smack in the middle of a situation that is in line with what DarkPoet said: "I'm quite convinced that such a close relationship isn't always the thing that is best for us." I recently made the decision to end a 2+ year relationship, partly because i'm not ready to settle down and because essentially, i want more "on my own" experience. By and large, it's been a really good relationship, the timing just is off.

I guess i'm just not yet scared shitless to be alone... yet somehow i still feel like shit.

i think the kernel of the answer to this one is that to make a relationship work you have to honestly give a damn in some manner (visable or not). Romantic love is the traditional route but not the only one... and not automaticly the deepest or most meaningful.

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Originally Posted by mastersgem

I've seen many who can do it either way - personally for me I want the whole package :D

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;-) dito. I want the whole package too.
I´ve already experienced the other way, A play-relationship based on deep trust. But I ended getting more and more feelings for him while he just enjoyed it the way it was. We endet it and are both happier this way...
In the end this lead to me meeting my current partner, master and love.
Because I learned that it would always be hard for me to keep feelings out and that I don´t actually want to keep them out of the relationship anyway.
Whole package or nothing it is for me ;-)

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Originally Posted by DomCt2002

Does love really have anything to do with BDSM?

Or Is love a seperate entity from BDSM and vice versa?

Can you love BDSM and not love the partner your doing it with?

Or do most think in order to do or be part of a BDSM Relataionship one must be in love?

I ask these questions because, 1) I have had BDSM relationships that were intense but we were not in love and 2) I don't believe love and BDSM necessarrily have to be linked in order for a good BDSM realationship to exist and last.

All I see is 1) physical attraction to such a point ya would have sex with the person 2) Mental attraction where the two of you have many simular interests in the lifestyle and some out of it and 3) Respect and and trust must be present. AM I wrong on these accounts or what?

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It can go either way IMO/E. Though I'd find myself hardpressed to say I actually Love anything that is not a Living thing. I don't think nor have the experience that tells me >one Must be In Love with, or even Love the Chosen Partner. While Trust is an Absolute necessity! SSC is a great standard. However there are still risks in WIITWD. Does one take these risks with someone one does not Trust? Granted some will, I won't.

Being In Love with, or Loving the Chosen Partner does enhance the overall experience and perceptions I believe.

Attraction can be a good thing depending on the Play one is going to participate in. There is many times not sex involved, but if there's going to be sex involved it's nice to have attraction also <G>. And then again depending on the activity, there is at times sex involved that has nothing to do with attraction.

So my thoughts on the end questions are;

#1 Not necessarily.

#2 The mental attraction due to interests and activities shared. And the remaining portion only if an ongoing Partner Style Relationship is being sought by both people.

#3 An absolute Must IMNSHO/E.

Just my thoughts and experience.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

I did not love the couple who showed me the first steps into the lifestyle, and helped me a HUGE lot with always being there for me and my 1,000 questions *lol*, but I liked them very well and found them both attractive.
It is not necessary to love your play partner to have strong sensual experiences.

However, when I found it was the thing for me, I went looking for a partner of my own for a real relationship. With love, it is just so much the better. I only can give myself truly if I love the other person. Plus, the fact that I love and trust him made me do a lot of things for him (and myself), that I would not have considered at all with a casual play partner.

I have a question which I think is along the same lines: If love comes first and BDSM comes later, is there any chance that respect in an already-established relationship could be compromised?

I love sexual submission but outside of sex I'm a very self-respecting person, and I would be really upset and indignant if surrendering myself sexually resulted in ex-bedroom disrespect...

There is, but that isn't really a bdsm related thing. As far as my own sum of experiences goes, loving someone doesn't neccessarily make her/him the right person for oneself. Everybody carries a huge load of acquired traits and traumas experiences with them that shape their character. Sometimes two souls can fall deeply in love with each other, yet one or both of them can't fit the role that is needed to form a stable unity, and instead of supporting each other, they unknowingly enforce each others insecurities or weaknesses. That's the point when the balance of a relationship tips and turns into abusiveness.

But I don't think that is something that can be foreseen, neither can it completely be prevented. One of the major laws of love is that it gives trust in advance. The only thing we can do is take slow steps, reflect, and see what we (together with our partner, she/he must also be aware and willing to do her/his part) can change if we don't feel well. If we try to change it, but the problem keeps repeating itself, it's time to pull the brakes and quit the relationship.

So take it slowly, talk with your partner about your concern, and most important of all, have her/him agree to respect your limits. If you're both not that sure, plan a fixed time each week (maybe at a fixed, neutral place) where each of you can talk freely without fear of punishment or loss of respect. A good ritual is worth five therapists, as we used to say at the drugs therapy clinic I worked :)

Personally I would not do it if I didn't love my male partner. Since I am a switch, I enjoy assuming both roles; however, my major preferrance is to be in control and then eventually have the man get impatient and take control. To me, doing this without trust these days could end up being the last thing you may ever do. If love, trust, and respect are involved, you can definitely have tons of fun, but you can also set a few limits which may prove to be necessary.