Is there any guy who can support this Methodology?!

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09-26-2008
citizendildooo

Is there any guy who can support this Methodology?!

Read this thread:http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/26677/?page=1& and tell me,is that sth about BDSM? or this is just about Abuse?
Where are the exact limits in this Lifestyle?

It's not just the matter of scat I'm talking about; this is about ruining a Being completely: Making it the Exact Absolute Nothing! (not in a mystic sense of course)

Just look at this:" Unfortunately, one physical aspect of my slave that has suffered from his service is his teeth. The enamel on my slave's teeth is now pretty much completely gone (I'm guessing this is from frequent puking and/or urine) and his teeth are very yellow and (frankly) disgusting to look at. I'm now seriously considering just removing them entirely..."

or this:"Eventually, after being locked in chastity for months, you should see a noticeable decrease in size of his erection. Take a picture of it during each cleaning to measure your progress and present it to your slave – it's important to let him know that he will never be any use to a woman again (in case he has any delusions). My current toilet's erect penis measured an impressive 7.5 inches long and 6 inches girth when I first transformed him into my toilet. Now, after nearly 7 years its non-erect penis has shriveled into a tiny wrinkle and measures less than an inch (about the size of a newborn baby's)."

Thankfully I’ve found some sense of consideration for Slaves from Masters& Mistresses in here ie. BDSM Library.
09-26-2008
hopperboo

I don't believe that is anything "Lifestyle."

If this is considered part of the "Lifestyle" then I am in the wrong place.

Abuse, pure and simple. Calling it by another name doesn't change it.

IMHO.
09-26-2008
SubmissiveDoll

Admittedly I couldn't read the whole thing. Especially not that fast. However, I did skim through it. I would have to agree that it's abuse.

There is a peace found in being submissive and being used at the behest of your Master. I think there are limits that shouldn't be pushed. Namely choosing your 'slave' based on their net worth!? What the hell is that? This lifestyle is based around love, trust, and respect.

The person writing this article has no respect for her 'slave'. This is when I feel it falls into full on abuse, and leaves BDSM lifestyle. I say slave with quotes, because I'm using this term loosely. Many people in the lifestyle use that title for themselves and their submissive as a term of endearment. I don't want to apply it to someone who is being abused, because to me it would demean the value of that title.

Ask any collared/owned submissive on this board, and I can almost guarantee they will tell you with no doubt in their minds, how much their Master/Mistress loves them.
09-26-2008
cadence

Just remember that one person's kink may not necessarily be anothers.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean someone out there does.
It's a fetish, a form of play, and a small part of D/s.

I play on the outer edges of humiliation, and have been taken to some very scary places.
Not everyone enjoys humiliation, but I thrive on it. It's my fetish.

I am a toilet slave, but will only go as far as being a piss slave, he respects my limits and would never cross a line that I wouldn't agree to being crossed.
My Master treats me badly, calls me very nasty names, he humiliates me in whatever way he can, but I will fully say that he respects me and cares for me very much.

It becomes abuse when the other person does not consent to this type of play.
09-26-2008
Ender910

I don't know if I'd call it abuse, but I'd definitely call it reckless.

A fetish is one thing, but allowing it to damage a person's health or well being is where it starts crossing the line, regardless of consent.
09-26-2008
hopperboo

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadence

My Master treats me badly, calls me very nasty names, he humiliates me in whatever way he can,

but I will fully say that he respects me and cares for me very much.

It becomes abuse when the other person does not consent to this type of play.

What if the person is not in the mind set to be aware this is abuse?

I don't understand how someone can treat someone "very badly," call them "very nasty names," and "humiliates" them in any way possible cares for or in any way respects them....

I truly don't understand.

Just because someone consents to something doesn't mean it's not abuse. A small child may consent to a beating because it's the only thing they know, same for an adult.

P.S. Extreme physical and/or mental harm is not a kink or fetish in my opinion. It's abuse.
09-26-2008
SubmissiveDoll

The reason I say abuse is because in that article it's clearly laid out on how to deal with it when the slave begs to be released. Begs! Umm... she had her basement remodeled to be more sound proof so that her neighbors couldn't hear her slave screaming!?

Sure, humiliation, toilet slavery, and even being left alone in the dark. I have no issues with what anyone might be happy with. Honestly, just because it's not for me, doesn't mean that it doesn't make someone happy.

But, when the sub is literally begging to be let go... I think you have crossed a very serious line. Not to mention when you can take pictures and notes on their declining health. While it may be opinion based... this is just wrong.
09-26-2008
hopperboo

Quote:

Originally Posted by submissivedoll

the reason i say abuse is because in that article it's clearly laid out on how to deal with it when the slave begs to be released. Begs! Umm... She had her basement remodeled to be more sound proof so that her neighbors couldn't hear her slave screaming!?

Sure, humiliation, toilet slavery, and even being left alone in the dark. I have no issues with what anyone might be happy with. Honestly, just because it's not for me, doesn't mean that it doesn't make someone happy.

But, when the sub is literally begging to be let go... I think you have crossed a very serious line. Not to mention when you can take pictures and notes on their declining health. While it may be opinion based... This is just wrong.

I agree! GREAT points!
09-26-2008
cadence

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubmissiveDoll

The reason I say abuse is because in that article it's clearly laid out on how to deal with it when the slave begs to be released. Begs! Umm... she had her basement remodeled to be more sound proof so that her neighbors couldn't hear her slave screaming!?

Sure, humiliation, toilet slavery, and even being left alone in the dark. I have no issues with what anyone might be happy with. Honestly, just because it's not for me, doesn't mean that it doesn't make someone happy.

But, when the sub is literally begging to be let go... I think you have crossed a very serious line. Not to mention when you can take pictures and notes on their declining health. While it may be opinion based... this is just wrong.

To be honest I read the post and skimmed over the article, so I didn't see any problems with what you quoted. I went back and read a bit more of it.

I would have to say that the writer of this may be embelleshing just a bit, just to make the whole thing a bit more interesting.
I read a few of the responses at the end, and unless they were forced to reply on how great it was to be a toilet slave, they seemed to be pretty happy with it.
As I said there may be some people who want this, even if it has some health issues involved.
Unless I skimmed too fast I failed to see what happens if the submissive becomes gravely ill because of misuse.

I have been told that it would be fine to chain me in the basement on weekends, if I wanted to or not.

If I want to be released, I have been told that I must beg for it, I have also been told that he will pass me off to another if he decides that he is done and bored with me.
Not saying that such things will happen, but it was part of our agreement.

There are always negotiations involved and I would think that the person who wrote this article, loosely mentioned that, but you cannot fully hold a person against thier will and then publicly declare it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopperboo

What if the person is not in the mind set to be aware this is abuse?

I don't understand how someone can treat someone "very badly," call them "very nasty names," and "humiliates" them in any way possible cares for or in any way respects them....

I truly don't understand.

Just because someone consents to something doesn't mean it's not abuse. A small child may consent to a beating because it's the only thing they know, same for an adult.

P.S. Extreme physical and/or mental harm is not a kink or fetish in my opinion. It's abuse.

If someone is not aware they are being abused or coherced into it, then I would say yes it is clearly abuse. There is no consent.

I consent fully to whatever is done to me, in fact I even asked for it. I have a Dominant that is able to provide me with what I enjoy, he does not abuse it, nor does he push.
Humiliation is not an easy thing to understand, and for the people who do enjoy it they are fully aware of what they are participating in.
There have been times when I have been pushed to an emotional edge, but I know when enough is enough. He also knows when it's time to pull back.

I don't condone anyone who coherces another into something they don't want to do, but if it is something that both parties agree on, then I don't see any abuse involved.
09-26-2008
hopperboo

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadence

I failed to see what happens if the submissive becomes gravely ill because of misuse. .

I am gravely disturbed by this. God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadence

If someone is not aware they are being abused or coherced into it, then I would say yes it is clearly abuse. There is no consent.

I think this happens to many, many in the Lifestyle. (Submissives and slaves I mean). Not being aware they are being abused, or even the fact that they think they deserve to be treated poorly.

They may believe they get off on it, when really...they don't know how to handle someone who truly loves them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadence

he does not abuse it, nor does he push.
Humiliation is not an easy thing to understand, and for the people who do enjoy it they are fully aware of what they are participating in.
There have been times when I have been pushed to an emotional edge, but I know when enough is enough. He also knows when it's time to pull back.

Treating someone "very badly" and hurting someone emotionally in any way possible (or "whatever way he can") at every turn is something I consider abuse.

Perhaps my abuse meter is off, or perhaps I need to be more open about abuse being good for someone.

I can understand humiliation in play, but if the person truly believes I am piece of shit and treats me badly then that crosses the line into abuse. If I believe I am nothing but an piece of trash to be thrown away until he/she gets bored...then there is something wrong with not only myself for feeling that dispassionate about myself, but also with the other person who has no love for human feelings, nor caring if someone is hurt. (And I am not talking about physical hurt, or a moment of play for humiliation, I am talking about someone who damages another's mind and view their self...altering it in a way that makes them believe they are nothing and they don't matter in this world).

Which it sounds like in the article the person was doing. A person can refer to another as an object in play and believe it, then a person can refer to a person as an object in life...and believe it. There is a HUGE difference there.
09-26-2008
Razor7826

I don't think that story is real. Sounds like a story that would be posted on this site.
09-26-2008
SubmissiveDoll

Ok, a few points here that bother me... Some quotes from the article.

***Explain to them that if they eventually decide that they want to be let go, their requests will not be granted OR tolerated... Unfortunately, the U.S. legal system is not advanced enough to recognize your agreement or understand the circumstances of your slave's confinement, so (for your own protection) escape/release simply cannot be permitted... ever.

you should certainly ask how he intends to cut off ties and prevent/deflect investigation that could lead people down a path to you.

You'll need to have a space that's both extremely convenient for you to visit frequently and also cut off from the rest of the world. If you think there's a chance neighbors will hear a man screaming from the space selected, it isn't adequate.

Feel free to decorate the room however you like; however, make sure decorations chosen could not be used by your slave to hurt himself or you.

It's absolutely imperative that your slave's room be safe before you begin. Always be aware of any possibility of escape. Keeping pepper spray/taser or some other device that could be used in case of an emergency handy is a good idea. Also be aware of any objects in the room that your slave could use to harm himself or you.

He will likely get sick to his stomach often, and you can expect him to beg to be let go. Being prepared for this will help you stay strong and let him know that asking to be let go and talking in general will not be tolerated. Punishment should be fast, harsh and painful.***

There are many many more. But, these are the few I caught as I ran back through it.

I don't care if the few people who responded seemed happy about it. The men this woman is talking about, obviously aren't happy. The way she talks about this process is horrible. There are no disclaimers for what to do in case someone is unhappy with this. She's very clear that it's illegal.

Yes, I do realize that in a lot of states, many aspects of BDSM is against the state law.

If you are ok with being chained up in the dark for a weekend, a week, a year. Fine! That is you. You are happy with that.

Sure, there are a few people who responded to the this article.. does this make sense to anyone? Her entire plan is laid out very clearly that the slave will NEVER leave their chained prison in the basement. How in the holy hell did they get to the computer to post that reply? Oh yes, I'm sure they are very happy with their current arrangement. They are still allowed human contact. Which this woman has clearly said her slaves are not.

Even in this lifestyle, once one has signed a slave contract, they can still leave! It's still a personal choice to submit. If they have to plan an escape, it's no longer a lifestyle choice, it's enslavement and abuse.

For those in this lifestyle that choose to be slaves and submissives, and thinks this is not abuse... does your Master/Mistress have to keep all items that could be used to harm yourself or them out of your reach? Would you kill yourself just to end your enslavement? Would you hurt your Master/Mistress just to get away? Does your Master/Mistress have to keep a taser handy to protect themselves?
09-26-2008
SubmissiveDoll

And the small point that I missed... Even if this isn't real. Which it probably isn't. It was in poor taste to put it where it is. It should be labeled as fiction. It's irresponsible to put something like that up as gospel truth of the lifestyle, because someone will take it as such.
09-26-2008
hopperboo

I agree. And to think some people find no problems with things like this...disturbs me so greatly.

I don't even think I can put it into words how scary that is to me.
09-26-2008
star_sparkle

i am in training to be a piss slave. and my training is nothing like this. i want to do this for Him because in my slavery to Him he has given me so much more than i ever dreamed, i want to do everything i can to make Him happy. It was His idea and i jumped at the chance to do so. However ours is a much more slow process. He does not want to damage me in any way. i am His most prized possession. i am his pleasure slave and soon to be his piss slave as well. I enjoy the humiliation of it. there is a fine line between humiliation and degradation, i think this article crosses the line. a slave is owned property, yes, but a slave is still a person. dehumanizing him is just wrong. This seems to me more like abuse. Most Master/Mistresses genuinely care for their slaves. It is a very deep trusting realtionship, not this mindless madness.
09-26-2008
cadence

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopperboo

I am gravely disturbed by this. God.

You didn't understand what I was trying to say, but most times I rarely get my point across correctly. I was saying that not once did the article mention any serious health issues, or did I miss that? Did the article mention what happens when there are serious issues and what should be done about them.
I tend to take what I read on the internet with a grain of salt. Not every article is true to form or really dwelves into the realities of life.

I think this happens to many, many in the Lifestyle. (Submissives and slaves I mean). Not being aware they are being abused, or even the fact that they think they deserve to be treated poorly.

They may believe they get off on it, when really...they don't know how to handle someone who truly loves them.

Treating someone "very badly" and hurting someone emotionally in any way possible (or "whatever way he can") at every turn is something I consider abuse.

Perhaps my abuse meter is off, or perhaps I need to be more open about abuse being good for someone.

I can understand humiliation in play, but if the person truly believes I am piece of shit and treats me badly then that crosses the line into abuse. If I believe I am nothing but an piece of trash to be thrown away until he/she gets bored...then there is something wrong with not only myself for feeling that dispassionate about myself, but also with the other person who has no love for human feelings, nor caring if someone is hurt. (And I am not talking about physical hurt, or a moment of play for humiliation, I am talking about someone who damages another's mind and view their self...altering it in a way that makes them believe they are nothing and they don't matter in this world).

Which it sounds like in the article the person was doing. A person can refer to another as an object in play and believe it, then a person can refer to a person as an object in life...and believe it. There is a HUGE difference there.

I understand where you are coming from, and there is nothing I could say to alter your viewpoint on things.
All I can tell you is that I enjoy humiliation play and I know that I am cared for. I enjoy being on the edge, and I enjoy being treated like an object.
No one can treat me badly without my consent. I am fully aware of the implications of this play and understand what I am entering into.
This type of play does seem extreme, but I would say that the ones who are involved in this type of fetish, do understand what they are entering into as well.
It's just not for everyone.
09-26-2008
Hime

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor7826

I don't think that story is real. Sounds like a story that would be posted on this site.

Yeah, I think it's just a fantasy -- I would guess that it was actually written by a male submissive. As a general rule, I don't think there's a lot of worth in getting upset about fetish "journals" and "experiences" written online, since there's such a huge ratio of wish-fulfillment to truth. Without pictures I don't think there's much to get up in arms about.

As for cadence's experiences, it's hard for me to believe that anyone who reads this forum could see her as anything but a fully consenting partner in her own lifestyle. She's a smart, tough woman, not someone who's too deluded to recognize what's good for her. I'm not sure why anyone would question that.
09-26-2008
hopperboo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hime

As for cadence's experiences, it's hard for me to believe that anyone who reads this forum could see her as anything but a fully consenting partner in her own lifestyle. She's a smart, tough woman, not someone who's too deluded to recognize what's good for her. I'm not sure why anyone would question that.

I pick around and skim some topics, so perhaps that is why I am questioning it and may not see her as a fully consenting partner.

And I did not mean to say she wasn't consenting...just bringing up the idea of some perhaps "consenting" not because they want to, but because they think it's something they should do. I do not mean to throw that on her totally, just responding to her post. Perhaps I should have been more objective. Sorry if it offended anyone.

I do not know her as well as you do, which is why I am questioning. Not just 'her,' I am questioning in general, because I truly do view that as abuse and wonder where the line is drawn, if not before that point.
09-27-2008
GearJammer

Let's be frank, here folks. There is an edge to our fantasies and our play that hints at a total loss of control like this. It is there in nearly ALL that we do.

Speaking from a male Dom's physical perspective... For instance, the act of gripping her hair when she's on her hands and knees and pulling her head back is an act of total control. It's an act that says "I control you, period. I will do what I like, take what I want, and only my desires matter." Now, UNDER THAT ACT is the understanding that I will never do my pet ANY physical harm, and she knows that. However, bringing that to the surface too much will kill the mood, kill the fantasy that encircles what is done, and stop all action, either quickly or slowly. The quick way to bring the reality that I will never physically hurt her to the middle of the fantasy is to use her safe word/signal.

So, in the first place, it's good to remember as we say "how I play is good but how the play in the story goes is bad" that when we play, we point toward that "bad play" but we keep assurances way under the surface that it won't really happen. It's those assurances, in the end, that allow the sub to let go and enjoy the humiliation or pain or whatever other non-vanilla aspect they enjoy, because they can lay down their self-preservation instinct with confidence.

There is a border, of course. It is mostly defined by what "hurt" means. For some, being pissed on would be hurt. For others, it would be scat play. For most (but not all) it would be involuntary permanent physical change (or change that required outside medical assistance to remediate). I can hear many of you saying that THIS is why we establish (or should establish) hard limits prior to attachment, and you are spot on. However, let's not judge someone else's hard limits. Equally, Doms, let's not accept extreme hard limits from someone who is not mentally prepared to grant them. It that respect, morbid as it sounds, a hard limit agreement is much like a will. "I, Gearjammer, being of sound and disposing mind..." applies to both situations and MUST be true, and it is on US, fellow Doms, to get it right.

In the end, taking up a sexual life that points to a total loss of control, that employs that idea as a fantasy cloud that surrounds what we do, without accompanying it with real harm, is not easy. It is a remarkably fine line, and it is primarily the Dom's responsibility to keep it ON that line. Off to one side, and the sub gets nothing she needs. Off to the other, and it's abuse. It's plain which was is the better failure mode, but it's still a failure mode, and most of us don't like failure, so there's a danger of rebounding to the other failure mode, given how thin the line is.

(written in words that accomodate a male Dom/female sub situation, and not meant to exclude any other combinations, which would be equally true in the words that fit that combination)
09-27-2008
cadence

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubmissiveDoll

And the small point that I missed... Even if this isn't real. Which it probably isn't. It was in poor taste to put it where it is. It should be labeled as fiction. It's irresponsible to put something like that up as gospel truth of the lifestyle, because someone will take it as such.

The sad reality is that a lot of what you will read on the net is not 100% accurate or in true form.
There are many articles and websites on BDSM activities, and many are geared towards one person's specific fetish. It's thier opinion, thier insights.
There are forums such as this one, where people do understand and have a reasonable grasp on what is right and what is wrong. A person should read a lot and learn quite a bit before diving into the deep end of the pool.

As for the article, it may be fantasy, or may be thier reality. What the problem is in that article is that is doesn't have any clear cut disclaimers, stating that yes your submissive is also a human being, and you need to treat them with some compassion at times.
In my opinion the poster probably didn't want to lose the momentum or the focus of thier post with disclaimers and cautions.

There are some who do want to have this type of lifestyle, however a person who does want this also needs to be aware of when a line is crossed.
There are many articles and forums such as this place that do explain the ins and outs and the rights and wrongs of D/s.
It's up to the individual to learn and understand what is real and what is fantasy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopperboo

I pick around and skim some topics, so perhaps that is why I am questioning it and may not see her as a fully consenting partner.

And I did not mean to say she wasn't consenting...just bringing up the idea of some perhaps "consenting" not because they want to, but because they think it's something they should do. I do not mean to throw that on her totally, just responding to her post. Perhaps I should have been more objective. Sorry if it offended anyone.

I do not know her as well as you do, which is why I am questioning. Not just 'her,' I am questioning in general, because I truly do view that as abuse and wonder where the line is drawn, if not before that point.

Actually I don't think many people know me very well here, I tend to stay very quiet and then you will see me pop up once and a while, such as now.

And you are definately not offending anyone, and it's a very good thing you ask these questions, because I am sure that others feel the very same way you do.

The line is drawn through consent. You consent to let another person do something to you. If you feel that you should consent when you are not ready, then I would say step back and rethink what you are doing.

If you don't consent to that, you are not entering into a viable healthy relationship.

I'll be the first to admit that I am lazy and rarely point out safety issues, and that is because I know where my line crosses and how I handle it. I assume far too many times that others should be able to disconcern that as well.

Having contracts and being a slave is something that a person shouldn't decide one day to do, unless you are fully aware of what you are entering into.
And yes a slave is still a human being with rights and privaleges. Anyone who dismisses those rights and privaleges may very well be an abuser.
09-27-2008
thepast

Two words: Common sense.

The thing about lifestyle is that people blur the lines between fantasy & reality.

Walking the line in BDSM activities can be an absolutely amazing experience in some cases, but oftentimes without proper training, knowledge, or forethought, experiences that walk the line can turn abusive or disasterous.

Walking the line between fantasy & reality in writing can also be erotic for some, but the issue is that other people may read it as reality... take EVERYTHING YOU READ with a grain of salt & use that common sense check: does it just seem too ridiculous to be true? IT PROBABLY IS!

As for abuse... there have been more threads written on it, and more opinions given about situations then I can count. It really is a case-by-case issue, though, and any "cookie cutter" response is probably not appropriate for any one situation. Abuse is, plain and simple, wrong. If you think you're in an abusive situation, get help.

However....

Often in Lifestyle, some activities people would perceive to be abuse aren't to the people doing the activities; verbal humiliation, degredation, objectification, scarification... for some, it is how they are aroused. For others, it would be pure torture. You know yourself best... if you think it's torture, then don't do it. If you say "no," and your partner continues, it's abuse.

It's impossible to sit back & be an "armchair" therapist for anyone's situation. Why? Because we aren't there... we don't know the dynamic, the situation, the external influences, the people... so saying anything about someone without being there is like commenting on people you see walking through the mall--you are putting your perceptions onto the situation.

Just my two cents.
10-01-2008
painslut4him

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubmissiveDoll

The reason I say abuse is because in that article it's clearly laid out on how to deal with it when the slave begs to be released. Begs! Umm... she had her basement remodeled to be more sound proof so that her neighbors couldn't hear her slave screaming!?

Sure, humiliation, toilet slavery, and even being left alone in the dark. I have no issues with what anyone might be happy with. Honestly, just because it's not for me, doesn't mean that it doesn't make someone happy.

But, when the sub is literally begging to be let go... I think you have crossed a very serious line. Not to mention when you can take pictures and notes on their declining health. While it may be opinion based... this is just wrong.

This slave finds it alarming that there was no mention of a safeword. Many times in play, subs and/or slaves will beg to be let go, or beg that they not be "hurt". A rough sex/kidnapping scene would use such begging. No where in the article does the writer mention a safeword. Had there been one, there would have been no doubt as to whether or not the toiletslave wanted out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopperboo

I am gravely disturbed by this. God.

I think this happens to many, many in the Lifestyle. (Submissives and slaves I mean). Not being aware they are being abused, or even the fact that they think they deserve to be treated poorly.

They may believe they get off on it, when really...they don't know how to handle someone who truly loves them.

Treating someone "very badly" and hurting someone emotionally in any way possible (or "whatever way he can") at every turn is something I consider abuse.

Perhaps my abuse meter is off, or perhaps I need to be more open about abuse being good for someone.

I can understand humiliation in play, but if the person truly believes I am piece of shit and treats me badly then that crosses the line into abuse. If I believe I am nothing but an piece of trash to be thrown away until he/she gets bored...then there is something wrong with not only myself for feeling that dispassionate about myself, but also with the other person who has no love for human feelings, nor caring if someone is hurt. (And I am not talking about physical hurt, or a moment of play for humiliation, I am talking about someone who damages another's mind and view their self...altering it in a way that makes them believe they are nothing and they don't matter in this world).

Which it sounds like in the article the person was doing. A person can refer to another as an object in play and believe it, then a person can refer to a person as an object in life...and believe it. There is a HUGE difference there.

Degradation and humiliation should always be followed (after the scene) by the Master/Dominant making sure his/her slave is emotionally stable. This slave hopes that the writer was simply creating a bit of fiction. If not, she deserves to be investigated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by delia

Two words: Common sense.

The thing about lifestyle is that people blur the lines between fantasy & reality.

Walking the line in BDSM activities can be an absolutely amazing experience in some cases, but oftentimes without proper training, knowledge, or forethought, experiences that walk the line can turn abusive or disasterous.

Walking the line between fantasy & reality in writing can also be erotic for some, but the issue is that other people may read it as reality... take EVERYTHING YOU READ with a grain of salt & use that common sense check: does it just seem too ridiculous to be true? IT PROBABLY IS!

As for abuse... there have been more threads written on it, and more opinions given about situations then I can count. It really is a case-by-case issue, though, and any "cookie cutter" response is probably not appropriate for any one situation. Abuse is, plain and simple, wrong. If you think you're in an abusive situation, get help.

However....

Often in Lifestyle, some activities people would perceive to be abuse aren't to the people doing the activities; verbal humiliation, degredation, objectification, scarification... for some, it is how they are aroused. For others, it would be pure torture. You know yourself best... if you think it's torture, then don't do it. If you say "no," and your partner continues, it's abuse.

Again; safeword. Using a safeword leaves absolutely no doubt that the slave has had enough - time to stop.

In this slave's opinion, the woman who wrote the story (if it is indeed true) is not a dominant or a Mistress. What she is, is a cruel female bully. Regardless of whether or not her "slaves" enjoy the treatment, she should have a greater appreciation of them. And for her to push them through "stage 2" is absolutely horrid.

If these men truly wish to be full toilet slaves, she could easily take a gentler approach and eventually get the same devoted slave.

Master has trained this slave to be His piss slave. Her transformation was gradual and as a result, very satisfying and arousing. This slave has been gifted with a very creative and understanding Master. Unfortunately for the slaves the woman has captured, they will never know the joy of giving themselves freely in service to their owner. Nor will she experience what it is like to have a slave who does so. What a pity for all of them.
11-14-2008
shams

Oh my God, definitly this is abuse, as i always say, i think that a good D/s relationship is based in the trust and the mutual pleasure, on the limits of each other, when one of them start to feel unhappy or what he is getting doesnt make him feel pleasure so, there's a problem, a Dom must to manage the feelings of his slave but dont destrory his life bec when the Dom pass the limits of his slave it becomes from abuse
11-14-2008
HisKitty

...her slave tried to kill himself rather than be there. What disturbs me is that she has no escape clause of any kind. How can someone predict what they'll want in ten years? You can believe with all your heart that this is your ultimate fantasy and such, but what if you stop consenting eventually? She even talks about it in her stages about being horrified, depressed and such.

I understand that people really enjoy humiliation. I enjoy helpings of it at a time. But I desire it now... if at any point in my relationship with my Master, if I stopped liking it, then we would talk and it would be adjusted. It just seems so obvious to me that if you have to go so far as to remove objects that could be used for suicide, then something is wrong.

Maybe it's just me... I could personally never give up talking ever again, and never ever seeing my friends or family, nor could I do 24/7/365/forever chastity lol. Like, when I read this woman's article, it comes off as a fantasy story... one which is very impractical in real life. There are obviously people who like this, and that's perfectly fine with me, lol. I hesitate to say "are turned on" by this, because of the chastity >_> Like, I am turned on when I wear my chastity belt... but I know it's coming off eventually and that wet pussy will be put to good use xD

And xD That sludge food she recommends feeding him... idk, maybe it's just because I'm not into that. I can see the draw... but... it's like, you get off on it without ever really "getting off" >_>

So, not trying to offend anyone over here, lol, just sharing my thoughts on this. I didn't think this bit was very healthy either, "If by the end of this phase your slave is not covered with visible signs of his punishments (i.e. bruises, burns, broken skin, etc), you are not being hard enough on him. He should be in VERY rough shape after this phase." along with rubbing feces -deep- in his ears and eyes? itchy skin? is that healthy?? I also didn't love the tinier things, like washing yourself with dish soap and steel wool? Wouldn't that really irritate your skin?

Or, "Then, squirt a generous amount of dishwasher soap into his mouth. He swishes it around his mouth with his tongue; then I insert a standard toilet brush into his mouth. Twist it around until bubbles foam out the sides of his lips, pull it out and have him rinse with more toilet bowl water. Watch the color of the spit – if there’s blood, you were too rough. The entire process takes about 2-3 minutes." and, as mentioned, having his teeth removed?

Again, I could just be off base, but those things sturck me in a negative way.
11-15-2008
TwistedTails

I had read that article before, I have no interest in scat, but there are subbies in distress so I went back and read it again. It was as un-thrilling as the last time.

No, I do not think it is real. In my opinion it is an edge fantasy of a TPE for people who enjoy toilet slavery and abject degradation. This story should not be taken seriously. This story was obviously written to titillate those who enjoy that branch of the lifestyle and shock and outrage those who do not. It would seem to have been quite effective in the shock and "Ewww" department for some of us here.

As far as the humiliation in the story goes there are lots of people who enjoy humiliation. In fact some people would not be satisfied without it. As with all things in real life though, consent, safewords, and good aftercare make all the difference between fun and abuse.

I try not to judge anybody's kink any farther than "for me, or not for me?" and if I like your kink i'm keeping it. :)