I've been thinking....

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10-03-2008
shayna{L_D}

I've been thinking....

I have been having a problem understanding a few things these days.
I don’t know where the disconnection is but everyone thinks that I am a Dom.
This didn’t bug me the first ten to twenty times it happened but then started to raise questions in my mind on why people think that I am a Dom.
I have asked around to my closet friends on this site, and got mixed reviews.
Some said that I come off as a submissive no doubt, others say its because of my ‘in your face’ personality, and how I don’t address every single person correctly (Sir/Master/Dom so on and so forth). I feel like that title is earned and shouldn’t be given away freely like a slushie at 7-11. Also about how I talk so much, in chat; IM, the phone.

My in your face personality is one that is I guess an acquired taste. Some really like it, some don’t. That isn’t the issue, the issue is that some people have told me that, this kind of personality could send signals of more Dominance then submission. I don’t get that, im being myself, that is who I am. Does that mean I am any less submissive because I am so ’in your face’ I don’t think that should be the deciding factor on if your personality is more dominant than submissive.

I heard there was a thread already made about this next topic, addressing everyone with respect. I read that the responses are mixed. Some say you have to others say wait until its earned. I think when you call someone Master/Sir/Domme/Mistress/Ma’am it gives them the up most respect, respect in my book is earned. Does this mean I’m disrespectful? To some, I don’t mean to come off that way, or offend anyone. Just personally I think that title should be earned and not handed out like Halloween candy. If I am wrong please, inform me where the rule book is. Does this part of my personality mean im less submissive or not submissive enough? Does this mean that I am Dominate because I feel like respect is earned?

Last and certainly not least, some say I talk a lot. This varies from person to person, and day to day. There may be days where I just say one word answers because I am not in the mood to have long in depth talks, other times I can chat your ear off all ding dong day if I wanted to. Everyone I feel gets like that, either if its on the phone, IM, email, text, chat room, voice chat etc. Does this mean that when I enter the chat I have to sit in the shadows and not speak, or speak when spoken to? Does this mean that if I am talking to my Master that I let him do every last bit of the talking and just sit there like a robot and nod? Does this mean that when I am on the phone I have my Master make up the whole conversation without me getting a word in edgewise and or have there be silence? (sorry I don’t like to get on the phone just to sit in silence)

I know in most thread like this there is that joke about being the perfect submissive. Every submissive is different, and submits to there Master in a different way. But do any of the things I listed above make a submissive a bad submissive, or is the submissive doing something wrong? Should he/she have to change their whole personality because they want to fit in this perfect submissive mold that someone created? Should he/she hide who they really are because they come off Dominate?

Forgive me if I am being a little dramatic I just want to know why all of theses things makes me look like a Dom, and or it makes me a bad submissive.
10-03-2008
thrall

Its amazing how strength is misconstrued for dominance..... if you display intelligence, leadership qualities, or the ability to reason.....lol. Well....some just dont get it that that is a public face.....and not who you truly are.....

I do not ....give anyone titles they do not earn! Respect is one thing...titles are a different thing entirety..Period. If a nick has the title embedded within it.....i leave it out. .....hhhmm....queen thrall doesn't sound half bad....LMAO!...I am not insecure enough to try and twist people into calling me something i am not...

And think of it this way.....do any of these people try an get to truly know you??...to find out who you really are???.....or are they only interested in you......addressing them in a fashion that strokes their vanity???
10-03-2008
Flaming_Redhead

Quote:

Originally Posted by restrainedNtrained

Does that mean I am any less submissive because I am so ’in your face’

Yes, actually, it does. There are different levels of submission. An otherwise dominant personality will generally submit to a supervisor at work. Some people have a dominant personality everywhere, except with their spouse/significant other. A few display submissiveness to almost everyone.

The definition of submissive, which is an adjective, according to dictionary.com is as follows.

1. Inclined or ready to submit; unresistingly or humbly obedient: Submissive servants.

2. Marked by or indicating submission: A submissive reply.

Synonyms include the following.

1. Tractable, compliant, pliant, amenable.
2. Passive, resigned, patient, docile, tame, subdued.

Quote:

Originally Posted by restrainedNtrained

Does this mean I’m disrespectful?

Where I come from, "sir" and "ma'am" are not titles at all but terms of address used when displaying courtesy, usually to those who would be considered elders. The title of master or mistress only applies to those you have chosen to address as such.

Quote:

Originally Posted by restrainedNtrained

Does this part of my personality mean im less submissive or not submissive enough?

You may not be as submissive as someone else, and you may not be submissive enough for some dominators. It's not necessarily a bad thing, although it would be much easier to find a mate if everyone was the same. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by restrainedNtrained

Does this mean that I am Dominate because I feel like respect is earned?

No, it really doesn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by restrainedNtrained

Does this mean that when I enter the chat I have to sit in the shadows and not speak, or speak when spoken to?

I haven't seen any such rules posted here, but I have seen them posted for chat rooms requiring protocol on other sites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by restrainedNtrained

Does this mean that if I am talking to my Master that I let him do every last bit of the talking and just sit there like a robot and nod?

It depends on what you both want out of the relationship. If speech restrictions are being employed, then you might end up doing just that. However, the lifestyle people I've met haven't wanted an automaton.

Quote:

Originally Posted by restrainedNtrained

Does this mean that when I am on the phone I have my Master make up the whole conversation without me getting a word in edgewise and or have there be silence? (sorry I don’t like to get on the phone just to sit in silence)

I guess it depends on how much he talks and whether or not he will tolerate being interrupted which could be interpreted as rudeness. It also depends on whether or not you like to be talked at rather than talked to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by restrainedNtrained

But do any of the things I listed above make a submissive a bad submissive, or is the submissive doing something wrong?

Just because someone doesn't fit another's ideal of submissiveness doesn't mean he/she is bad. You may not be right for some, but that doesn't mean you're wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by restrainedNtrained

Should he/she have to change their whole personality because they want to fit in this perfect submissive mold that someone created?

Nobody is perfect. If you like yourself just the way you are, don't change. Some people like the idea of being molded. Different strokes for different folks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by restrainedNtrained

Should he/she hide who they really are because they come off Dominate?

This is what is wrong with dating. People hide who they really are and think that once the honeymoon is over it's okay to do the Dr. Jekell and Mr. Hyde thing. It's called bait and switch, and it's dishonest.

I've been told that I'm barely submissive. I've also been regarded as a doormat by others. I guess it depends on which way the light reflects off my hair. :rolleyes: Actually, I'm not service oriented, meaning that I don't submit out of a need to serve. I submit out of love, i.e. the desire to make the people I love happy. Everyone else can kiss my ass!
10-04-2008
shayna{L_D}

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrall

And think of it this way.....do any of these people try an get to truly know you??...to find out who you really are???.....or are they only interested in you......addressing them in a fashion that strokes their vanity???

Thrall thank you for your reply. As to if these people get to know me, ive heard this from close friends just trying to honest with me and then just from random people that openly ask me if i am Dom or sub, and then i ask them why they thought i was Dom, then the hateorade comes pouring out. So half yes do know me and the other half dont know me one bit. Im told i should be proud of who and what i am,and i am just that.Im proud to be submissive, but i also don't feel i should change any part of my personality to fit to a certain mold. I wil however tweak aspects of my personality to fit a situation, such as voice restriction and or something along those lines but if a Dom wants to be with me, then he has to want to be with me, flaws (if u want to tell them that) and all.
10-04-2008
shayna{L_D}

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaming_Redhead

[COLOR="Red"][B]Yes, actually, it does. There are different levels of submission. An otherwise dominant personality will generally submit to a supervisor at work. Some people have a dominant personality everywhere, except with their spouse/significant other. A few display submissiveness to almost everyone.

This comment almost hurt me a little but, but i didnt take it personally. Everyone can have an opinion. Now am i the best submissive in the bdsm world? hell no. I have a lot to learn about being submmissive and what it all means. Ive been learning about this lifestyle for almost a year so im pretty new. I like you said above I am dominant in work situations and in social interatons (to some extent), but behind closed doors its a totally different ball game. But in order to get behind the closed doors you have to like who i am as a person and accept that when im at work, or with friends (either internet or real life) i am going to be 'in your face' and talk a lot. I feel like if they dont like it then dont ask me to submit to you and then try to change every aspect of my personality. I can understand voice restriction, etc, as punishment and or the Dom telling me to tone it down (im not going to lie to get carried away on stories and stuff) but to totally stop talking, hide in the shodows and change who i am. Its like what to you want a doormat??

As to your 'being molded' comment, i dont like to be molded in any way shape or form. I can be told what to do and how to act at times by my Dom but i feel the whole reason he wants to be with me is beucase he liked my pesonality and wanted me as his submissive. He didnt want to shove a penny through a keyhole if you know what i mean ;)

Thank you for your reply.
10-04-2008
angelic.zest

This Lifestyle is what "YOu" make of it!

Well submission is different for everyone, and i know because i dont willingly submit to any and everyone, only my One gets the title he so deserves, only he gets to see me at my most vulunerable state.
I am sort of like rnt, im that in you rface kinda person, i like to the center of attention but doesnt most submissives like to have some attention on them? i am also the type of female who will let any and everyone know how i feel if they cross me the wrong way, ive been asked if i were a Domme, if i switch and i guess me being so strong and strong willed with my submission makes me a "Dommme" blahhh no im not one, i am an assertive submissive female who knows what she wants, what she wont take from assholes or just anyone for that matter. Im a no nonsense type of female, i dont take any slack off anyone but i am also a big softie, a sweetheart to those i want to be around. I respect all until they give me a reason not to respect them

and rnt ive asked you before Lol...ive asked if u had Domme tendensies and have you tried and you said no, ive asked you i think one more other time but i did not mean it in a way of saying that you are any less of a submissive then i, or billy, or suebell...You make submissive,D/s, BDSM what u make of it..there's no clear cut way of saying what a "True submissive" is, there's no such thing.

i may be submissive in all aspects of my life around my Other but not around other Dominants...or you maybe submissive only in the bedroom but not your day to day life. This lifestyle is what you make of it not what ppl tell y ou to make of it!
10-04-2008
Guest110308

Well, I would like to start off by thanking restrained for starting this thread, I believe it is something that needs to be discussed. I have found the topic thought provoking so far.
I grew up with a Marine for a father, so i have been comfortable with the address of Sir/Ma'am, but i reserve Master for the Man i submit fully to. I consider it polite form of address, nothing more. I am one of those to asked restrained if she had hidden dominant tendencies. What i was referring to her being a strong woman who knows what she wants. Does that necessary make her dominant? No, i know many submissives who are strong women, and some dominants want/desire a strong, confident woman their side. I meant it as a compliment to restrained, am somewhat sorry that it caused restrained to question her submission, but am also glad that i made her think what her submission means to her.
huggles and kisses
10-04-2008
SUBtly_shy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaming_Redhead

Yes, actually, it does.

I've been told that I'm barely submissive. I've also been regarded as a doormat by others. I guess it depends on which way the light reflects off my hair. :rolleyes: Actually, I'm not service oriented, meaning that I don't submit out of a need to serve. I submit out of love, i.e. the desire to make the people I love happy. Everyone else can kiss my ass!

AWSOME!!! I know how you feel on that score :) glad to see that I'm not the only one of that mind :)
10-04-2008
silverwind{MN}

Quote:

Originally Posted by restrainedNtrained

As to your 'being molded' comment, i dont like to be molded in any way shape or form.
Thank you for your reply.

just be yourself rNt.. i like the way you are new york attitude and all.. and far as D/s, that if for you to decide not anyone else.. i also think respect has to be earned not just given to everyone that puts caps in the nick.

You tell'em girl and don't worry about being a perfect! nobody is. :)
10-04-2008
DowntownAmber

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrall

Its amazing how strength is misconstrued for dominance..... if you display intelligence, leadership qualities, or the ability to reason.....lol. Well....some just dont get it that that is a public face.....and not who you truly are.....

Thrall, you know I love you so I have to pick on you for this line.... (I'm even going to bust out my special extra ....'s just for you! ;) )

Intelligence, leadership qualities, and the ability to reason do not a public face make.....I tend to think I posess these qualities and they really do happen to be a piece of who I "truly" am.

In fact, it's these very traits that I bring into the releationship I have with J as gifts I give to him through my submission....my submission neither changes these qualities nor makes them any less borne of me....they simply cease to be used as tools to interact and move through the world, and instead become the giifts I use to pleasure and to serve him....
10-04-2008
DowntownAmber

rNt: Heh heh heh, does anyone take the time to read your name before pegging you as a Domme?

In all seriousness though, there's nothing wrong with you being exactly the way you are and feel like you want to be. You're no more or less a "real sub" than anyone else, you simply may find you're a more unique cross-section of the varied submissive personalities. All that potentially means is you may have to wait a little longer to find a more unique Dom.

Honestly, try not to think of yourself as not sophisticated enough of a sub to be able to portray the "right" submissive qualities - instead realize that not everyone who approaches you will be sophisticated enough to tell that we come in all sizes, shapes, and personalities. And frankly, if some of the "obvious" signs of protocol arent there, I would ask a person I'm talking to if they are Dom/me or sub as well. Nothing to be offended over.
10-04-2008
icey

and there was me thinking you were a sub *rolls eyes*

how on earth does being ''in your face'' online count as being less submissive? because in all honesty we can all be one hundredfold braver and in your face online, in reality we might not dare say boo to a goose lol in fact ive met a couple of people here at the library and im pretty sure they could tell you that i am fairly timid and have to try really hard in person to be confident! (and even then i surprised both Icehawk and myself each time how ''loud'' i was! lol) yet on here i can be way more open and ''in your face''
being submissive these days and in the bdsm context as with many things is in reality very very different to the original context of the word.
i mean if we were to take it literally then the majority of posters here at the library just wouldnt have anything to say or at least not the inclination to say it, ''submissive'' submissives just wouldnt post! cos hell online or not we would be just too passive,tamed, resigned and docile! if you're resigned about something you're hardly likely to post and dispute it are you ...more likely to push the thankyou button lol
10-04-2008
fetishdj

Hmmm... by the definitions given, I am also a Dom as I am also unwilling to give titles unless I feel they are deserved and have a tendancy to speak out and act devils advocate when I feel it is needed... I can well understand the confusion. Trouble is with this internet thing is that tone and emotions rarely get transmitted accurately so it is easy to misread someone's intent and that can lead to misreading a personality. Generally, I think, making it simple and obvious helps.

Personally, unless someone has it written into their username (sub so and so, Master or Mistresss so and so) or has a tag line which gives you an indication (like many do have - telling us who their Master/Mistress or sub are) then I prefer to make no assumption about anyone until I have seen evidence - either asked them outright or sneaked a look at their profile. Yes, people, we are asked the 'what is your BDSM role' question in the profile for a reason... it is usually a good clue as to someone's status as sub/Dom etc. :)

Sorry, I shall switch off the sarcasm now...

I think this issue is up there with one of the main complaints of many lesbian Mistresses about being bothered by male subs despite it being clear on their profile that they are not looking for a male slave. Unfortunately, in my experience, profiles rarely seem to be actually read as much as they should be. I think if you are talking to someone in chat, for example, and want to know more about them then the profile is there to help you.
10-04-2008
Kuskovian

Do not take this the wrong way; but the problem is not with your submission in any way.

If they think or precive you to be a domina then perhaps you are above them in the "hierarchy of dominion".

All creatures fall somewhere within this hierarchy and thier positions within it are relative to thier individual preceptions of others in relationship to themselves.

IE: It is quite natural for you to only submit to those individuals you precieve to have dominance over you.

That is: perhaps those who think you are "in your face" or a domina, are not willful enough to command your respect or be considered dominant enough by you to be worthy of your submission.

Thier statements of complaint or assumption; in both accounts, only reveal more about thier own in-securities and or true nature than it does of that of your own.

The fault in any case, is most certianly not yours.

The best submissives are often the most spirited.
10-04-2008
FrozenGrapes

ok i am going to try to post to this without coming accross like a ... green horn bitch?? lol
i have been told that i am not "Domme" enough and i am not strict enough because i enjoy a girl that might push somtimes and shows her personality instead of being a robot
so if she shows her ass sometimes it actually makes me fall harder because i can push back.. it is like a game and because i can see the person i first fell for... before i or she decided on being Mistress/sub.
I really apprieciate rNt for starting this thread. Because there are some Dom/me's that do like feisty subs.
And what is more i def agree that this title is not taken or assumed.. it is given and earned then proven.
and a sub is a sub by his/her own choosing or heart, and no one can question that. No one sub or Dom/me hs the right to dictate or question what you think or know you are.. you may not work for some Dom/me as i may not be harsh enough for some subs. but this realtionship as in ANY relationship D/s, vanilla, or other is nothing more than 2 people who meet and their chemistrys/phermones, interests/personalities, kinks/carreers, loves/ hates, match and they complement each other.
as not every person you meet in life is meant to be you friend or lover, not every Dom/me, sub is going to mesh and work. there are many levals to look at and condsider.
and about you rNt? i personally think you are a great sub and woman. Strong and independant, yet soft and submissive.. a smart ass, and a kind soul.. what could anyone want for more than that?
10-04-2008
TheDeSade

OH! Crap. . . . more subbies that actually dare to use their brains and think!~

but really. All good comments. rNt, I dont know you very well tho we have chatted and played in the forums. Let me give you my Dom's eye view of your "thinking"

First, anyone who doesn't appreciate a submissive with a well developed sense of self is missing one of the great delights of this lifestyle. A self assured, confident and intelligent submissive should be considered a prize not a problem.

I want to be associated with someone who can callenge me mentally as well as physically. As many of you have heard me say, a relationship based solely on BDSM is doomed in my opinion. Unless you have all the other things necessary for a long term relationship, you cannot build a successful long term relationship with a BDSM component.

Hence, I want a submissive with widely developed interests, a keen mind who can carry on a conversation, who has enough self assurance and self confidence to talk to me, to suggest, to ask, to question, to challenge and at times, even to defy when there is a justifiable reason.

Ok. . pushing soap box under the table.

nuff said from me
10-04-2008
shayna{L_D}

Thank you all for your comments, good or bad. Like they say 'opinions are like assholes everyone has one'. I want to thank everyone for putting in their two cents, i liked hearing from both subs and Dom's. This made me see that just becuase i am assertive doesnt mean that i am a bad sub. Submissives come in all different forms, you shouldnt have to change yourself to be with someone that goes for vanilla and for D/s. Before you get into any relationship, vanilla or bdsm you most of the time get to know that other person before jumping into anything, which means that you know their personality. If you dont like them dont date them, dont think to yourself 'oh i can maybe change that person'. Never works. I refuse to change how i am, i like how i am, i like my personality. Ive learned through all your replys and from my Dom that just bc i am assertive, out spoken and 'in your face' doenst mean i am any less submissive.

I just wanted to add as an afterthought, that in no way did any of you that openly admitted to asking if i had Dom tendencys, did you disrespect me or hurt me in any way, nor did it question my submission. If anything i helped me want to learn more about my submission and about different ways people submit to there Dom/Master.
10-04-2008
blythe spirit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuskovian

Do not take this the wrong way; but the problem is not with your submission in any way.

If they think or precive you to be a domina then perhaps you are above them in the "hierarchy of dominion".

All creatures fall somewhere within this hierarchy and thier positions within it are relative to thier individual preceptions of others in relationship to themselves.

IE: It is quite natural for you to only submit to those individuals you precieve to have dominance over you.
That is: perhaps those who think you are "in your face" or a domina, are not willful enough to command your respect or be considered dominant enough by you to be worthy of your submission.

Thier statements of complaint or assumption; in both accounts, only reveal more about thier own in-securities and or true nature than it does of that of your own.

The fault in any case, is most certianly not yours.

The best submissives are often the most spirited.

Thank you for this response. I, like rnt have been "accused" of being a Domme, simply because I've yet to meet a Dominant, who was stronger than I.

My outward persona is very strong, aggressive and "in-your-face, but my soul's urge longs for that one person who can put me and keep me in my place. The Dominants, I have found, want a woman who will submit without them exerting any energy whatsoever. Unfortunately, I have learned that it is relatively easy to be an awesome Dominant for an hour, a day, a week. It is considerably more difficult to sustain and reinvent and recreate that, endlessly.

In my opinion, an adept Dominant can extract submission from the strongest of women.
10-05-2008
fetishdj

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuskovian

All creatures fall somewhere within this hierarchy and thier positions within it are relative to thier individual preceptions of others in relationship to themselves.

IE: It is quite natural for you to only submit to those individuals you precieve to have dominance over you.

All true. The psychological variable we call 'dominance', which has 'submissive' at one end and 'dominant' at the other is a normal distribution. i.e. it is a bell curved distribution. The majority of the population are in the middle of the curve whereas the extremes are what we can call 'Doms' and 'subs'. Societely we impose a fake cut off point to indicate where those who are 'truly' submissive or 'truly dominant' lie. However, imposing a simple binary feature to these variables (i.e. you are either submissive or dominant) is far too simplistic for the actual situation which is that there is a gentle gradiation between those who are extreme 'dominant' and those who are extreme 'submissive'. Bear in mind that even many switches express a preference for one or the other and therefore betray themselves as being more towards one extreme or the other.

The important point is that we judge our relative level of dominance in comparison with others. You may be the big fish in your pond but in the pond next door there may be a bigger one.

Now this is partially independent to the roles we assign ourselves. You call yourself a sub but may be quite high up the 'dominance' scale. What needs to be remembered is that the self imposed roles and the way BDSM society works is largely consensual. You call yourself a sub and allow a Dom to treat you as such. A Dom is only a Dom so long as the sub lets them be one. Someone quite low on the dominance scale may let a bad dom get away with more before they object and exercise the legal right to tell them to F off. A sub with a high dominance may take less shit before they give up and walk away and therefore need a more dominant (and competent) dom.

This is not, I have to add, to say that doms with really submissive subs is necessarily a bad dom, just that it is easier to be dominant with a really submissive partner than it is with someone who is more independent. Some Doms appreciate the challenge of a 'bratty sub'. others find it too much to take and prefer someone with a little more pliability. This is why it is so important to find the right Dom for you and why just any old person calling themselves a Dom will not do.