Please respond your opinion on cyber...
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Please respond your opinion on cyber...
yes
No
If cyber is cheating so is Playboy Magazine.
So is watching Sharon Stone in Basic Instinct
So is reading The Story of O.
It's all mental stimulation of a sexual nature.
And it's not cheating unless you promised not to do it.
Depends
Are you in a monogamous relationship where you are exclusive? Then the answer is yes.
I've got to disagree with Oz here. Yes, reading porn online is akin to reading a Playboy or watching a DVD. But, to my mind, cyber involves interaction like chatting. And the back and forth stimulation is more than just impersonal fantasy--it is can be incredibly intimate. Heck, I know folks who have more sex online than they do with the partner they live with and, even though they try to offer excuses, they know it is cheating when they do it.
I also have to agree, if you are involved in, monogamous relationship, then cyber is cheating, unless your partner knows about it, it is agreeable to it
I say yes. Cyber is human on human interaction be it online but still it is human on human and for me yes that is cheating.
Reading playboy or online porn like watching pictures or movies or the stories here is not cheating.
That is my opinion.
so I totally agree with Euryleia
I am with Euryleiaīs defintion.
As for the cheating question - I think it should be discussed between the partners if they are comfortable with it or not.
Doing it behind your partnerīs back, secretly, or against your partnerīs will - yes, I think that is definitely cheating.
No. It's no worse than flirting. If, however, it leads to an actual relationship, then yes.
Everyone has differing opinions and they are strewn all throughout this forum. A search on cheating may turn up some interesting posts.
I think its virtually cheating but not quite!
Because everyone has a different interpretation of what cyber is, you won't get an answer that is tidy and concrete.
I am on the fence with this question, I do think that yes it is cheating, but I also agree with Oz, watching porn, reading porn, or even going to see strippers is the same as cyber, and it is not cheating.
It all comes down to how your relationship works, and how each individual feels about it. It also depends on what your interpretation of cyber is.
I get the idea that not everyone has the same definition of what cyber is either
OK let’s take the equation of “I” out of this discussion, since we are discussing the “cheating” aspect we will assume the question is “am I cheating when I have an on-line relationship?” This is going depend on how your partner feels about it. A person will be threatened by different things and at different times depending on circumstances in the relationship. I have seen heavy flirting by one partner be a real violation of trust to another. This is what it really comes down to, is there a violation of trust? And come on this should be no surprise to anyone who has conscience, if you are hiding any type of relationship from your partner then odds are good it’s a violation at some level.
So to the question is it cheating? I would say if your partner knows and is OK with it then no. If you are secretive about the activity or your partner knows and is bothered by it then it’s a dishonest situation that will only lead to a relationship breakdown.
My two cents worth.
Life and marriage is a very large game with intricate and complex rules. We were swingers for quite a long time, does that make me a cheater, not by my rules, she knew, she participated and enjoyed with me. The same was true for me. Nothing in our rules said that sex under these conditions was cheating but if either of us slipped out with the others knowledge of the other then that would be cheating.
So I say cyber like any other possible form of cheating depends on the couples rules. As a Master with a slave I will take a pet or two for training purposes with my slave's full knowledge and I don't feel that is cheating either. I will share my slave with members of both sex or I may have her entertain in a carnal manner a male friend of mine without my presences and that to will not be cheating because she will be following my rules.
For me it is quite simple. If I feel guilt then I am cheating.
There are so many levels, but I also have to agree that if it is a one on one interaction with another person, whether or not that other person is legitimate (and not some smelly old man sitting in his boxers and smoking a cigar) and emotions and feelings are exchanged, then it is cheating to me. Especially if it is in a true Dominant/submissive relationship. By this I mean that the sub, for instance, is interacting with the Dom on more than a purely "cyber sex/ ok I got off buh bye" kind of way. Once deeper emotions are exchanged other than a mutual quickie, then, imho, you are giving that other person something that belongs to your spouse or significant other and that is cheating them out of something you promised them. Make any sense? *grins* ~blizz~
Makes perfect sense to me, although I think there is more to it. Your feelings of guilt must arise from a breach of the trust your other half places in you, or a breach of the "rules" your relationship is governed by.Quote:
Originally Posted by His_blizzard
Some people don't feel guilt or don't recognise rules of behaviour. They can cheat by cybering too, if they ignore their partner's expectations.
However, I don't think it matters whether you are cybering, using a prostitute, keeping a mistress, or simply thinking about it. You are cheating if your behaviour is unacceptable to your partner.
In the past I have had friendships with girls which my wife did not approve of, fearing my infidelity. Had I even taken those girls out to the pub for a drink without her approval, I would have been cheating.
TYWD
Why are you asking us? You should ask your partner.
If you don't feel like you can tell your partner about it? That's part of the test!
Laffin because we're gonna end up arguing over the degree to which a particular activity constitutes "impersonal fantasy"Quote:
Originally Posted by Euryleia
I know the following question is out there on the edge of hyperbole, but isn't using a prostitute pretty impersonal? :rolleyes: Just the rental of warm flesh, perhaps never to be encountered again.
Okay... so what are the rules going to be as computers get more and more ubiquitous, as we get more and more comfortable... and there will be new ways for people to interact online.
Ultimately it will all depend on what you expect of monogamy.
That would have been brilliantly funny without the last three words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonraker
Virtual cheating in a virtual world. :rolleyes:
Thank you for the discussion. I feel like I've been cheated on because of "secret" relationships on the computer. It's not just chat, it's pictures, cams and a big cell bill. When I discovered it I was accused of invading her privacy, but I feel like she cheated. She says there was no physical contact, so no cheating. I wanted to see what others thought as well.
gloombunny there has the right idea, but I'll give my opinion anyway, because I love to. There've been a lot of discussions about the nature of what it means to "cyber". My definition is this: Hooking up with somebody online and having the text version of phone sex. In my relationship, it would be a breach of my trust (cheating) if my husband did that without my knowledge. Or without some lengthy discussion first, which I know doesn't line up with how a lot of you are going to view power exchange, but that's how we are. I would also never do it without his knowledge and approval in advance. I think even flirting with people online can get out of hand, which is why if I do flirt, it tends to be at arm's length, unless I know the person is "safe" (ie, never, ever, ever gonna be interested in pursuing me) and I know him/her well. I am surprised at how much I have to say on the subject- I just deleted a whole paragraph about developing close relationships online, because it's not really relevant. The whole point is that it's between you and your significant other. If it's not between you (ie, a secret), then I think there's a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloombunny
She doesn't think it's cheating so she will not discuss it with me.
I think that now you have a bit of a problem there. You "believe" that she has cheated. She doesn't think it is cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by new1
You have asked us all a question to which you are going to have many different answers to because we all have varying opinions. Only you know how you feel and why you feel as you do.
You both need to discuss this without having any accusatory feelings towards each other.
You need to find out why she has done what she has done, and keep an open mind.
She in turn will also have to be able to understand why you are upset.
Disscussing the issues camly and openly, may be able to help you both work this out and be able to come to what you are both willing to do next.
If you both continue to harbour bad feelings and refuse to talk, it will only lead to more deception on either side.
Communication is key. If one person in a relationship isn't okay, then the other(s) aren't either. One partner's feelings cannot be ignored. As soon as you commit yourself to the relationship, you can no longer say, "Well, that's your problem, so deal with it." Not without some hefty communication first, anyway. (Because there have been times where there are things that I (or he) just do need to deal with, but it's always "our" problem to bear. That's the cool thing about being a couple/in a relationship.)Quote:
Originally Posted by new1
I agree heartily with cadence- it has to be approached right. The conversation can't be accusatory, and it can't be heated. If you get flustered easily (I do), I would suggest thinking through exactly how you want to phrase things so that they are not inflammatory, and possible ways to respond to things that you already know she'll say. Bring up your feelings on the matter, define what cyber means in your mind and why it is something you're not comfortable with, and express that you really need her to communicate with you on the subject. Tell her how you feel about her (not about her cybering, but about her- gooey stuff, sincere stuff), and that you don't want to feel hurt, but you also can't just bury how you feel about this. And while it's obvious that the conversation isn't optional (from my perspective, anyway, without doing damage to the relationship), be willing to give her space, and time to think. If she doesn't want to discuss it right away, make sure she will discuss it with you, on a reasonable timetable, preferrably before something similar occurs again (if it even does occur again- she might not even be planning to do it, and that might be why she doesn't think it's important). I know, I'm getting preachy about communication, but I've watched so many couples disintegrate because they forget that they're actually on the same side! So it's something that is more valuable than gold... or, in my case, my perfume oils. :) Best of luck, and I hope once she realizes how important it is to you, that the situation is able to be resolved in a way that works for you both!
Replace the word cheat with trust violation and I think your closer to the accurate feeling. I'm sure in her mind she did not cheat...you can not change how she feels only relay how you feel. "I feel our trust has been violated" "It makes me feel cheated out of time you could have been with me". Discuss from a position of your feelings rather than what she did or did not do you. Those are no win conversations.Quote:
Originally Posted by new1
I have a vanilla marriage. If I masturbate it is unacceptable to my spouse. Is it cheating if I do it anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisYouWillDo
no it isn't! to quote woody allen it is making love to someone you love.
it involves no one outside of the marriage.
Hmmm, I have a couple of cents to throw in here. One thing about talking with your significant other, like my mom always says (although I don't think she would have pictured this particular scenario : ) .... write it down first, then you don't get your words mixed up and it's harder for the other person to misunderstand you.
As for whether something is cheating - I agree that it depends on the people involved in the relationship and no two will likely be the same, BUT one thing that I haven't seen mentioned is thinking first "How would I feel if it was reversed?" I know a lot of the guys in general don't see watching a stripper as cheating, but I'd bet they wouldn't be really comfortable if their significant others were hitting up the Chippendale's. That's it, just think how you would feel if the situation were reversed. Pretty simple, really.
By the way, good quote Sir Russell : )
cybersex is a forum of mutual masturbation, so depending where you draw your lines as to what is "cheating" then thats where the lines are drawn for cybersex. To me, it is cheating. To some people it wouldnt be.
To some people blowjobs aren't cheating either, but i'm not one of those.
Cheating is about where boundaries are and weather those boundaries get crossed. If you've made it clear to each other that its okay to have cyber then no its not cheating. If you haven't talked about it, I would avoid it as I'd lay good odds on most people considering it to be a form of cheating.
I totally agree with those who advise communication in a non heated fashion.. still this often is not easily achieved if you feel hurt. sometimes every discussion ends in an argument. If thats the case for me itīs easier in writing... I can write down everything I want to say without beeing interupted, there is no chance that I angryly let something slip that I would not really want to say.. And it gives the Partner time to think about this first.. He has to read the whole of your opinion and it can sink in a little.. Even if he is of another opinion..she will perhaps at least come to understand your point of view.
But even if this might be a help it never replaces a discussion afterwards.. you really need to talk, just keep it low. ;-)
Hope youīll be fine
Deigja
I would have to lean towards Oz's answer. Personally I think its no more cheating than masturbation. But thats just my opinion.
I have to respectfully disagree, especially in this situation as it's been laid out. I think Sir_Russell had it right, tongue in cheek aside. It was kept a secret, it involves at least one other person not in the relationship, and the partner not doing the cyber-ing/phoning/photo-exchange feels betrayed. I think (as I've already said... sheesh, I need to get out of this discussion, don't I?) that it demands some serious discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silus
Secrets=bad.
And if it happened to me in the early stages of a relationship and my partner had been unwilling (after more than one request, of course) to discuss my feelings or take my feelings into consideration, I would be on my merry way. I cannot have a close relationship (friend, family, lover, whatever) without above average communication skills. That's one of the most important qualities I look for in anyone. It's essentially a hard limit- I don't know how else to classify that, and my brain is tired.
new1...Quote:
Originally Posted by new1
having been in a situation close to this the best advice i can give is...
Stop asking for a definition of "cheating" here. You are going to get 1,000 answers on basically 2 (maybe 3) sides.
We can't and shouldn't validate any emotions for your or excuses for her. If that is how you feel then that is a valid emotion to you. Just because myself, or Oz, or Joe Blow may not agree with it won't change your feeling on it. And just because we may agree with her won't change your hurt or anger over it.
If it is a relationship worth saving then what you need to do is get her into counseling with you to work out the issues on it. Such as:
"why did she feel the need to do that?"
"Was it sexual based or emotionally based?" (yes, there is a difference)
"how can we prevent this trap in the future?"
"how can we rebuild the trust?"
Use a natural party, like a counselor, to help determine why what happened did happen and how to move forward either together or separate from there. If you decide to try perhaps a good book for each of you to read is Do I Have to Give Up Me to Be Loved by You? by Jordan and Margaret Paul
It doesn't matter what we think... trust me, I could give you "instances" on both sides, for and against. God knows I have played that game enough time. Bottom line though, it is your life and you have to determine your next course of action.
Don't mean to sound harsh but asking here won't help you figure out the next step or move forward.
Hugs! Good Luck... I know it is rough.
Spot on, Annie. :)
Great questions, Annie, and great advice, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by just_annie
Well the great debate has begun.......this is like the onlive vs real life arguement all over again...........some say this some say that ect.......wonders how many of the onlines will say its not cheating? because it is a very real relationship......but its not cheating....but lets not go there
OK here is my 3 cents it maybe not be physically cheating but it is cheationg on atleast an emotiional level...if you are relaying on someone out side of a relationship to get somehting you need.....maybe that is telling you somehting about your relationship is all i cna say
@ new1: I think the operative word is "secretly" here. What I wonder is, if she thought it was ok, why did she do it behind your back in the first place.
And itīs not a definition problem anyway. No matter what it is - if one of the partners is not happy with it, and the other ignores his feelings, it is not a sign of her loving or even respecting you very much, is it?
The point is not: 1000 people on this page say it is cheating, so by telling her that you "prove" it actually is.
The point is, she is hurting your feelings and does not care. So if you want to discuss that with her, it would be the way to go.
And I donīt mean to sound heartless, but if she does not care about your feelings, why would you want to stay with such a person?
She is right on a legal point, meaning if you take it to court her actions will not qualify as cheating; but she hurts you on an emotional level, and that is what counts here, after all.
Kind regards and best wishes
Arria
I am using Arria's post as the example ONLY because it was the more previous post to mine. That having been said...Quote:
Originally Posted by Arria
Having been there it may not be a matter of heartless... after all, we are only getting one side of the story. What lead up to her "cheating?" Were there problems before that she attempted to bring to the surface that he wasn't willing to discuss? Was he meeting her needs both physically AND emotionally? He is condemning her for behavior that he is in some fashion enacting himself (at least from her point of view)?
Some of these posts are instantly condemning someone we don't know based on very little, one sided, information. And even if new1 tells us the FULL story it is still only HIS side of the story. We still will not have a frame of reference as to her thinking, feeling, etc. on the topic.
There is more here then meets the eye, it takes two to ruin a relationship just as it takes two to maintain one. So, I think we all need to back out, stop judging that which we do not know completely, and let new1 work it through with his partner only.
Yes, some of us may have been cheated on or cheated on someone before. But, each relationship is different and the 2 involved are the only qualified ones to determine the next course of action.
I understand why the question was posted, but no good will come from us validating either new1's or the other's behavior.
I think Annie is a very wise person.
I agree with Annie. Of course it always takes two. I did not mention that extra because I thought adult people have enough brains to know that.... well, I might have been wrong there.
The matter remains that he is unhappy and she does not care, whatever there was before, and whoever is to blame for it.
I tried to point out that whatever we say will not make a difference to the whole situation, and whatever we say might not be of use.
Counseling might be the best way, communication between them both is vital, and taking it out by using peopleīs arguments from an internet forum will not work.