She is subtle in her answers WB, trust me that she nailed all 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warbaby1943
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She is subtle in her answers WB, trust me that she nailed all 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warbaby1943
LOL I believe you because you should know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhabbi
~adds subtle to me list then grins all cute like at Warbaby and Rhabbi~
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixie_dust
:hubba: :hubba:
Then you gotta define your terms or expect dissent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhabbi
Dissent away, it keeps the thread up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozme52
One of my favorite movie is...When Harry Met Sally....there is a quote in that movie that I have always loved..........
Harry Burns: There are two kinds of women: high maintenance and low maintenance.
Sally Albright: Which one am I?
Harry Burns: You're the worst kind. You're high maintenance but you think you're low maintenance.
ROTFLMAO............So I guess this makes me the worst kind.......*wink*
Definately.Quote:
Originally Posted by thrall
It seems counter productive to encourage subs to think of themselves as high-maintenance.
But then... you insist on defining it to suit your own needs. And will probably continue to do so until you meet a high maintenance chicklet who thinks that's what you want.
'Nuff said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozme52
...................Exactly!.............lol
I don't think of myself as high-maintenance......... and an a normal basis I'm not. And I certainly don't ever want to be considered high-maintenance.
Good Doms however, encourage us to feel our emotions and show them, which in turn makes, ...or at least makes me
.........somewhat........ sad to say......high-maintenance.......LOL
A good Dom wants to know if you are happy or sad. A good Dom wants to know exactly how you are feeling, good or bad. A good Dom wants to know how your day was, and how it is going at the moment. A good Dom wants to know the what is going on inside your head.......
Sometimes the answers are not always the warm fuzzy things in life...........
When I'm crying and sad, I need comfort and love.
When I'm being crazy and unreasonable, I need talking back from the edge.
That is what I consider to be high-maintenance, and not something that I enjoy at all. But they are parts of me. They are the parts that a good Dom should want to see.........and feel
.........which unfortunately sometimes makes me........well you know...........LOL
I agree. In most situations I am what I consider to be low maintence, but when it comes to D/s and baring my emotions.......... things are different.Quote:
Originally Posted by thrall
I have been taught to accept that all feelings are good, so long as I take the time to explore them. As someone who was very good at burying my feelings, this has been a life changing thought for me.
So if being emotional makes me high maintanence, then that is what I am. I am lucky I have WB to support me in every way I need. :)
As to the name of the thread, I don't care what it is called, it is the content that is important to me.
So you know there is no way I consider you high maintenance at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiegirl1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warbaby1943
:bigkiss: Thank you Master
I believe the term you are looking for is tongue in cheek. I am willing to stick by my definition here. Also, I would like to point out that I am not encouraging subs to be high-maintenance, I am simply pointing out the fact that they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozme52
Since you seem to prefer the type of sub who does not get emotionally involved, or who allows a Dom to treat her any way he likes, you are free to find that type. As I said before, I prefer a bit of a challenge.
Sooo this is getting a lil heavy..
how about we go back to focusing on me :)
Me looking for a term? My vocabulary is quite fine thank you very much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhabbi
Are you now claiming you've said this as tongue in cheek? Or just confused about my comment?
Quote:
Since you seem to prefer the type of sub who does not get emotionally involved, or who allows a Dom to treat her any way he likes, you are free to find that type. As I said before, I prefer a bit of a challenge.
You obviously know nothing about me. Tell you what. I'll refrain from making further comments on your opinions as I seem to make you uncomfortable.
And what should that focus be?Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsofanangel
Oz --
I can see where you're coming from. It actually reminds me of something my grandmother used to say -- that you shouldn't tell children that they're cute, because then they'll learn how to use it to their advantage. :) If a Dom took too much care to reassure his/her submissive that it's ok to be high maintenance and that it's good to be a challenge, that could easily turn into a frustrating situation where it was impossible to maintain discipline.
However, I have seen plenty of women in vanilla relationships forcing themselves to put up with neglect and downright bad behavior from their SOs because they "don't want to be high-maintenance." A lot of women seem to want to be "low-maintenance" so much (because they think it's the only way to be attractive to men) that they ignore their own warning signs and limits. In a vanilla relationship, that can lead to a lot of pain, but in a BDSM relationship it could be even more serious. I don't want to see women coming into this community thinking that it's not ok for them to ask for reassurance, aftercare, or even respect for what they will and won't do, you know? You can say that a good Dom will know when to provide care and attention, but honestly, even the best Dom will sometimes have a moment of distraction or self-absorption* and not notice that his sub is struggling in a way that isn't positive or healthy.
So it seems to me that whether you glorify high- or low-maintenance, the terminology still presents a lot of problems. My opinion, which may or may not be welcome, is that that's because it's an essentially sexist idea -- that women are like cars, which provide certain benefits in return for a level of "maintenance" that is ideally kept as low as possible. In other words, the sex (and presumably cooking, child-raising, etc) are the "ride" and the time you spend talking, cuddling, and bonding are like, say, changing the oil. Having to maintain a relationship is the price you have to pay for regular pussy. Considering the value that people in this lifestyle (and on this forum!) put on their relationships, it's not surprising that using this kind of terminology, even jokingly, would lead to conflict.
I consider myself to be high maintenance. Not because I have to have my own way or I need things or I primp but because I tend to be a little too self centered. And not in a egotistical sense (boyfriend would laugh if he read this), but in the sense that I worry constantly about my actions. This might seem self-conscious, but that's just because I can't seem to explain what the hell I'm trying to say...*takes deep breath*
I try to control everything. EVERYTHING. From the cleanliness of the house to the emotional state of my man. I'm constantly needing him to take that control away from me. I guess that's what I mean.
I would see that as a definite problem, but a balance between the need to reassure and discipline should be maintained. And the type of sub that actually attracts me tends to look on discipline as part of the maintenance routine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hime
Terminology and semantics often leads to misunderstandings. This is something I fully understand, which is why I try to look at everything someone is saying before judging what they mean. Why quibble over semantics if the important thing is the idea?Quote:
However, I have seen plenty of women in vanilla relationships forcing themselves to put up with neglect and downright bad behavior from their SOs because they "don't want to be high-maintenance." A lot of women seem to want to be "low-maintenance" so much (because they think it's the only way to be attractive to men) that they ignore their own warning signs and limits. In a vanilla relationship, that can lead to a lot of pain, but in a BDSM relationship it could be even more serious. I don't want to see women coming into this community thinking that it's not ok for them to ask for reassurance, aftercare, or even respect for what they will and won't do, you know? You can say that a good Dom will know when to provide care and attention, but honestly, even the best Dom will sometimes have a moment of distraction or self-absorption* and not notice that his sub is struggling in a way that isn't positive or healthy.
So it seems to me that whether you glorify high- or low-maintenance, the terminology still presents a lot of problems. My opinion, which may or may not be welcome, is that that's because it's an essentially sexist idea -- that women are like cars, which provide certain benefits in return for a level of "maintenance" that is ideally kept as low as possible. In other words, the sex (and presumably cooking, child-raising, etc) are the "ride" and the time you spend talking, cuddling, and bonding are like, say, changing the oil. Having to maintain a relationship is the price you have to pay for regular pussy. Considering the value that people in this lifestyle (and on this forum!) put on their relationships, it's not surprising that using this kind of terminology, even jokingly, would lead to conflict.
I think this is a good example of high-maintenance in a sub. No way would I encourage this behavior, but simply punishing you every time you slipped into wanting control would be counterproductive in the long run. It is better, IMO, to reassure and cajole the appropriate response, with an appropriate mix of discipline. I find that talking about these things and explaining how disappointed I am that you continue to not trust me to manage them is very effective. This will make your eventual submission more complete and meaningful.Quote:
Originally Posted by seriouslynosn
Interesting thread. I have been thinking about this question of "High maintenance" subs quite a bit. I don't believe that I am as qualified as some here to make a definition as I seem to find most subs; Doms; men; women and children *high maintenance"-that is, for me, I have to work bloody hard to cherish those who mean something to me. I regularly fail, like today, but it doesn't prevent me from trying.
I suppose it is because I am sensitive to people's feelings and have an inbuilt desire to care. Some folk clearly like more attention than others, but I've learned that the quiet, undemonstrative ones crave that attention too. They are probably the ones who seldom get it-but who need it the most.
Of course, I agree that some people just wallow in the constant fawning of others. They are the shallow ones as are those who cater for them. I won't class them as requiring my maintenance at all-I just ignore them.
Can I add that I am a fluffy pink high-maintenace Dom?
Thought not...
Excellent point Ed, thank you for the input. the whiny, pouty, needy people are not who this thread is about, it is about the people we care about who we want in our lives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle_Ed
And, since my subs assure me that I am a fluffy pink high-maintenance Dom, welcome here as well.
hmm EdQuote:
Originally Posted by Uncle_Ed
are you sure you arent talking about me? Because that sure sounds exactly like me.
pink fluffy high-maintenance Dom? lol yeah why not lol
As long as you stand up for who you are you can be both pink and fluffy in my book.
I think the difference here that everyone is trying to make is
Drama/spoiled........very,very,very bad
...to
"High maintenance"......semantics here....but.........good
LOL
Did no one get the memo that I wanted this thread to return to being about me?
-snickers and runs off-
Watch it girl, this is my thread and it is about who I say it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsofanangel
-pouts and bends over-
sorry.. it is just my high maitenance needy ways.. -smirk- Forgive me , Sir?
Because the words have sexist connotations that can't be ignored. I don't see anyone here talking about male submissives being high-maintenance, you know? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhabbi
p.s. when I mentioned the title of this thread to my husband, he said "High-maintenance submissives? You mean, all of you?" :D
I have to admit that I do not, and that may be my fault. I spoke from personal experience in starting this thread. I have never had a male sub myself, but I would assume that the same type of dynamic applies in the adjustment phase. this, by my definition, would make them high-maintenance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hime
Also, as no less than three Doms, including myself, have weighed in and called themselves high-maintenance, I think that we are covering the sexist angle.
Exactly the point I wanted to make with this thread.:bdsmsmileQuote:
p.s. when I mentioned the title of this thread to my husband, he said "High-maintenance submissives? You mean, all of you?" :D
i am happy to say that according to the defined terms of this thread, i am definitely not high maintenance.
Attention Whore -- maybe once upon a time, but i have outgrown that phase
Whine -- nope
Pout -- nope
Temper Tantrums -- nope
Desires Cuddling -- yes
Desires loving -- yes
Acts out to get Attention -- nope
Bratty -- nope
Lovable -- yes
Good Girl/Boy -- yes
Worth it to their Dom/mes -- Coming up on 20 years together, so i would say so.
One of the things about a high-maintenance relationship is that it eventually grows into a strong and lasting one if both parties are dedicated to making that happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon's muse
I just found this thread in reading through threads before I joined the Library.
There's another aspect to the "high maintenance" issue, as I see it. And to address the sexist side first - I have never had a male sub - but consider myself a fluffy pink high maintenance Dom as well - lol.
We all talk about the gift of submission - and I imagine we all mean slightly different things when we say that. For me, submission isn't complete unless a girl can give me her spirit as well. I start with her head - taking that brings the body...with the body comes the heart, not necessarily immediately, but if the relationship is to last, her heart must come as well...and finally - when she has learned to trust me fully - when she truly knows at an almost instinctive level that she can be totally vulnerable with me and that I will hold her safe and warm and loved - the final depth of her submission is the submission of her spirit - her soul.
The legs aren't what get spread widest when a girl submits fully - her very being is. This makes her incredibly vulnerable to me - and - where she may need reassurance that her gift is valued and respected because of that vulnerability - I find that there is an equal need in me to reassure her that I do value her submission very highly. Caring takes effort - her need to be reassured that I care requires effort. The effort in either case is trivial in one sense, since anything worth having - truly worth having - is worth working for.
My girl's submission to me is truly worth having, and the more highly I value her submission, the more effort and attention I will want/need to show her...but then...caring for her is something I enjoy, so it isn't work at all. And just as she gives me her heart - she always receives mine - I can't stay aloof when I care - and love makes the relationship so much more profound, at least it's that way for me.
If W/we are going by the above criteria of being an attention whore, bratty, acting out, etc., then, no, I am not a high maitenance sub. However, I do rely emotionally on my Master and lean on Him quite a bit. I'm doing that especially since I have (so far) four chronic illnesses that can prevent me from completely serving Him as W/we would both like me to do. So I suppose in that sense I am high maitenance because so much of His attention is now focused on me to make sure that I am doing ok.
can I please have this on a plaque to the entrance of every BDSM site hehe - very, very well stated Whippet - Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippett
i have a lot of respect for Whippet and always take notice of anything he has to say,so thankyou from me too Whippet :)
maybe i should take more notice and not be quite so high maintinance myself lol
i dont think the effort is trivial in any sense, it takes a lot of patience, time and understanding, its what makes a good Dom (that should read person really) one who actually knows themself. they stand out from all the rest and thats exactly what the 'high maintenence sub' is asking for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippett
The Whippett is very wise :cool:
icey - I don't have personal experience with you - but we've known each other on-line for a few years - and I really would never consider you a "high maintenance" sub in a bad way - you have needs - as all people do. And I think Hawk would agree whole-heartedly.Quote:
Originally Posted by icey
I used the word trivial in a very particular sense, icey. Some effort takes real grab yourself by the bootstraps and haul yourself to do the job work - things like going to a job you don't like, or a social gathering you'd really prefer not to go to - but family obligations intrude. That's work - real grunt work.
Other things may require as much or more effort - or patience or time or understanding - but with those things, you go at it with a light heart because expending effort on those things is a joy and a fulfillment.
And that's why I see the effort as trivial - because it is something that I truly enjoy. There is no effort in making myself pay attention to my girl - none at all. She's my slave - and she's the centre of my universe as well. And my need and desire that she be truly happy make any effort for her sake a pleasure, not a chore, regardless of whether it's the firm whipping she needs so much, or being held and cuddled and allowed to cry her heart out over some past hurt, or showing her in word and action that no matter how ugly and unwomanly she might feel herself to be - she is a truly beautiful and dearly loved woman in every sense.
There was a comment above - I can't remember who made it - and I'm not going to look - it was likening maintenance of a submissive to the routine of maintaining the running order of a car.
That aspect is true (as analogies go) - but I thought about that analogy overnight - and I think it goes further. A good friend of mine had a rare and classic car (a 1929 Dusenberg if you must know) in pristine condition. He spent hours tinkering with that car - keeping it in immaculate shape, keeping it tuned and in perfect running order. He'd think nothing of putting his business on hold for a time to do that either. That car was his passion and it consumed him - in a good way.
In many respects, providing maintenance to my submissive - to my slave - feels very much like how my friend felt about that car...she is my consuming passion.
i just love you Whip!!!!
Yes, i guess i am still high maintenance then........and getting worse!!!!!!...........*wink*..what the heck is up with that........lmao
And.... sorry i couldn't resist this one......guess you can call it "junk in the high maintenance trunk"
lol - no - you're not bad high maintenance either thrall - but the junk in the trunk sure is - lol