Quote:
Originally Posted by Warbaby1943
Ditto:cool:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warbaby1943
Ditto:cool:
I have no particular experience in conflict resolution, but I will gladly mediate anything that needs to be mediated. If nothing else, I hope my age gives me some standing to make this offer.
These are my thoughts and said with a lot more coherency than I could manage. It's very difficult when such things as this happen because the ripples spread a long way. All I keep thinking is What a Mess! Which is hardly helpful and I am at a loss as to know what to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by just_annie
rach
Wow... I'm amazed..
I sure have missed something.
And I so regret the painfull feelings of everyone involved here.
But I want to say, I am really thankfull for the mods, admins and whoever helps this chat and forum going on.
Maybe that's because I never had problems with any of them. But I think they work hard to keep all the good things going.
So don't forget that maybe you are pissed off now and NEVER EVER want to come to the chat and all that, the admins here aren't people that want you to piss of and annoy you.
I think it is important personal problems have to be talked out with the persons involved.
Power is a strange and diffucult thing. It will be always there and there will always problems around it.
Well delia, AC38/Torq, cariad I just want to thank you very much for your hard work an please keep it up.
Delilah
I went to add my support here with delilah. I do not know what the details are, nor am I really trying to find out. But the mods here have a tough job and I think they do an excellant one.Quote:
Originally Posted by his_delilah (GS)
LOL
That .
Making a point, Rhabbi?
LOL
(Sorry for this lilttle off topic one...)
Psynymph,
Thank you this topic. it has been long over due. My experiences in chat have had an impact on my forum posts as well. I used to live in chat as well as share my bdsm experiences on the forum. I rarely go to chat anymore do to the issues mentioned by many. I did stop by recently but realized noting had changed. It is very sad that a place that once was home for many is no longer so. I personally choose not to be apart of a chat where bullying and intimidation is used in the guise of respect so someone else can control me or others. I am not a rude person by nature so watching what was happening in chat was more than I could stomach. So it is my choice not to go there any more.
I do know the story behind the bans from chat. I do know that those that have been banned have been so for the following reasons: Breach of rules, deliberate attempts at disrupting the chat and false (read deliberate flaming) accusations made by disgruntled chatters who decided to play the sides game after believing deliberate lies from those that were banned.
Personally I mod to have the place as somewhere that folks can come and enjoy, discuss the lifestyle, and have fun with friends. Those that want to play silly games are welcome to enjoy each others company in the new chat they have found.
And as for the rumor that delia impersonates AC38. sorry folks, that is not true. I know for a fact that at least two of the occasions that delia has been accused of impersonating AC38 by a former chatter (and yes I have seen the log of that chat) I was talking to AC at the time.
Sorry, I haven't been banned and I do not believe the topic was about banned members. It was about people choosing not to go to chat because of the actions of others.
Now if someone was banned and felt it it was not appropriate then they have the option of requesting it be reviewed by the site admin or I would hope there is a review process if someone feels they have been banned for no reason.
when all the laughter dies in sorrow..............
That is how I see it. Those who do not bend and "fall in line" are soon gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadetiger
From the chat rules page.
Respect can have many levels...Quote:
CHAT RULES & GUIDELINES:
ROOM ADMINISTRATOR: AC38 (XXXX)
First and foremost show RESPECT! If you do not use respect at all times you will lose your chat privileges!
....
I think respect is a very objective thing on the boards.
Also Respect is not always a certainty but is something that has to be earned.
There is only a very modest level of respect that is given freely to anyone. Civil respect. This is a level of respect that every one gets. Even people you meet on the street or at a store. And it works both ways, that is something often forgotten .
But it would seem that most ( those who have higher levels/positions) want the kind of Respect that is given to Royalty or Honored as those who have done something extraordinary are ... That just isn't going to happen in an online deal. IF it does happen it has to be earned. Not demanded.
Respect of a higher level is one which must be earned to be maintained and that is the problem here. It isn't earned and maintained daily.
Respect is given when it is deemed able and desireable, not because someone says you will respect me in a manner which pushes them above others ...
Another thing.. Respect is not given to things. they do not do anything to earn respect. No thing, whether that be a book or an idea or a situation is worthy of respect IMO. It is silly to demand such.
Think of it like this :
" You will respect my plate of sphagetti. "
see how odd that sounds ?
I also find it very odd that many see something wrong and others don't see anything at all.
makes me wonder ....
Ok i will end my long post on this and hope someone finds it valuable.
I have hesitated to reply to this thread but I do feel strongly about 3 things.
1. Psynymph--What an amazing person you are! You are so open and forthcoming with your feelings and experiences that you are inspiring. I have read more than one of your posts with mouth agape and brain on overload. As I continue this response you may look at things just a little differently.
2. delia/Torq/AC38--d, for a 24 year old woman you are brilliant. Highly educated and by that I dont just mean schooled. I have watched when you decided to take someone under your wing and the advice and care you give is inspirational. It is sometimes confusing to realize that we are all different people at different times. There is an underlying character and yours is admirable even in the most taxing of situations. AC more which later.
3. cariad--There is perhaps no finer lady to grace these pages. When you become someones friend even they don't know how much that means to you. You are the epitome of what humans strive to become. Knowing that you will only get better I marvel.
I too, rarely frequent chat these days. There was a time I lived to be with my friends there. Not so anymore. Partially, because I have outgrown the need for the support and validation that I am OK, I am not weird, there are others like me and they are great people. So, it is possible to have my wants, needs, and desires and still be an OK person. Also, there are many more sites with chats that people frequent. In fact, I can think of 4 off hand that many of the library people can be spotted at. Yes, these days they are more often spotted at those other sites than they are here, but every one of them that I have discussed the partial exodus with longs to be back here, with things as they were. I am not sure what that means really as nothing has really changed in the couple of years I have been here except the software and a few mods here and there. Note to AC.....anyone who knows anything about computers knows there are plenty of ways around your bans. I will not discuss them here as I dont want to encourage any form of mutiny or the usurptation of your authority. Still, you must ask yourself why this is all happening now. Where there is smoke........? You may write it all off as disgruntled or spurned users, but somehow it goes even deeper. Why might I ask (rhetorically) do people seem to fly off the deep end? delia's point of less than 1% being banned is valid, still why does it project such vehemence? Why are those left behind still so emotionally affected? I think we would all agree that the key to a BDSM relationship is communication. Psy shouldn't be critizied for her attempt to share her feelings and delia should be commended for addressing the unspoken questions head on. Is anything resolved or is it just a purging of pent up emotions? Yes, you are entitled to be autocratic, however, I have seen you be the bigger man on more than one occasion. Is there an alternative? Perhaps a review committee? I am not suggesting this only providing potential options. delias point of only banning someone after being warned to stop more than once is somewhat telling. I personally, know of one banned person who admitted to me that that is exactly what happened. Is it possible when someone gets on a rant to just ban them for a day for a "cool down" period? Maybe you feel that is more than you want to do but it is a good alternative. It is your chat you may do with it as you please, but I will tell you that other sites are being bolstered by the defections. Don't care? Ok, that is your perogotive, but from my observaton that is truly uncharacteristic as I believe you want an atmosphere of unity not the divisiveness we are now seeing. Action is required, Sir.
I too, think that chat adds so much to this site that it is inseperable from the forums. I have many friends from here that would not be friends if it were not fot the immediate communications afforded us in the chat room. The give and take, the question and answer, the joke and laughter, is just too important to take seperately. What does it say about a site that is not committed to providing the best experience for it's users? When someone gets banned it doesn't just happen to them, it affects many and therein lies the reason for seeking a solution.
Those who know me, know I could go on and on for pages, but I think I have covered the major points.
cariad, feel free to edit as much or as little as you see fit.....I have implicit faith and trust in you. Oh, and point in fact, that was established during many, many conversations in chat.
Respectfully submitted by,
DTT
Don't know about valuable but possibly gave me a little more insight to the problems being discussed in this thread if I use my imagination and read between the lines. Since I have no idea what the hell anyone is referring to, yet still find this thread very interesting, any little hint helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfscout
If that post was long, mine must be a novel. Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfscout
Yes, the whole respect thing is weird in the chat room.
Without mentioning names I will tell a situation in which I was personally involved.
Someone in the chat room, who considers themselve a Master, when sort of new (at least to me), made a comment to another Dom that I was laughing with and having a very good conversation about me. I believe it was along the lines of Dont give her a massage, she doesnt deserve it, shes just a sub. Yes everyone has different veiws, but I have seen this person whom I have know respect for at all make other derrogatory disrespectful comments to others, and has on SEVERAL occassions made them to me. I am not on to go tattle, so I didn't. But one particularly nasty comment got me, and I said something back, like I normally do, but I kept it going. I was pissed.
I was told to knock it off and to ignore him. In the chat room, while nothing was said to him. Gee, I wonder why? Because he is a Master? I should hope not. I hope that something was said to him in private. However, going back after that, he has still made more subtle disrespectful comments. Yes, i should report them. BUt when a mod... even the owner is in the room talking, and reading, what good would it do to report such a thing?
Makes one think.
Goodgirl it was a long post for me. I have made several last few days in different places online. Gosh i hope that isn't a change for me .. I liek the darkness.
And...
Yes I have seen what you have said happen numerous times .. and it is not always a Dom who is offensive.
DTT, writing purely as one of the site's admin, but by someone who also values your friendship.
Thank you for the invitation to edit your post, but it is one I will decline. Surprising as it may seem I very rarely edit posts.
I think, and I am open to correction here, the only time I edit posts, other than at the author's request, is to remove flaming, particularly where I do not believe that the author intended to flame. Although this did not apply in the past, (yes, thank you for your kind words, but I am on a steep learning curve) I now always PM the author, explain the whats and whys, and recognising that it is ultimately their post, it does not stay in forums in its edited condition without their consent.
I have made one such edit to one post in this thread, and the edit did not change the message of the post, and their is no trace of the edit since it was done soon after posting.
_______________________________________________
To anyone who may be interested, within the life of this thread I have received a PM which talks of me being put in a tight spot because of loyalty to friends.
In my offline life I am used to dealing with conflicts, often involving people I know and like. Fortunately my training and experience of doing this enables me to be able to separate the two roles. Some while ago I was put in the position of banning someone with whose online company I enjoyed. I hated doing so, I was criticised by that person's friends for doing so, and accused of being disloyal to them. But they had broken site rules to the extent that the consequence was a lifetime ban, so I banned them. I still chat to that person on IM, but they know that if I ever see them step into here I will instantly take the correct action against them.
I am watching over this thread with same approach.
cariad
I wasn't going to make another post since the other was challenged and, therefore, deleted. I am still unsure as to what that was about. I have had this entire situation put into perspective for me by one very intelligent man. In the scheme of things, this place/situation is not what is most important in my life. I will not let it ruin my happiness or the happiness of others in my life anymore. Having said that, I will share my opinion on why chat bans are such a volatile subject. People have to deal with a lot of things in their lives. They look for ways to let off steam. One of those ways is to connect with other people with similar interests. Friendships are formed. There are many reasons why people can't connect as well in real life as they can online. Some live in remote areas. Some have many job/family responsibilities that don't leave them much time for socializing. Whatever the reason, they wind up in the chat room. Once they have found a place they are comfortable with, anything that disturbs their little corner of heaven tends to touch something deep inside. They come here to get away from stress. Imagine that you are an avid fisherman. You haven't been able to get away to go fishing in your favorite spot for months. Finally, you've had all you can stand of life, so you grab your fishing pole and head to the pond. When you get there, you discover all the laws about fishing have changed. Not only that, but someone is littering all over the place. There's hardly any fish left. It's kind of like that, only I've been watching it as it happens. It's impossible to give specific examples of rudeness without "flaming." I have had nasty comments directed toward me. I have witnessed rudeness to newbies who ask questions. Granted, it was funny the first time, and I laughed so hard I thought I was going to get a hernia. I have witnessed rudeness by supposed Dommes/Doms to subs where someone comes in and just dumps everyone off the couch because She was in a bad mood or because He just likes to make rude comments. Some people are warned while others get away with it. There appears to be no consistency or objectivity. You will and should get banned for going into the room and being hostile and vulgar to others, repeatedly. I remember how it used to be handled. A person was whispered to calm down. If they continued ranting, they were warned. If they still persisted, they were frozen. The ban was the last resort. I have never gone into the chat and cussed anyone out, made terroristic threats, etc. You can't discuss the problems with the chat in chat as a group for fear of getting banned. I certainly didn't think the forums were the correct place since they are separate. I chose to visit the friends who left and found a new room. We were happily venting amongst ourselves. Over the past month or so, I had pretty much stopped hanging out in this chat. It had nothing at all to do with taking anybody's side. If that were the case, I would've quit coming as soon as the first ban occurred. I got busy in real life. I made a couple of new friends. With what I perceive as inequality (demand for respect while showing little or none) appearing more and more in chat and less people I knew in there, it lost its appeal for me. I am not the first person to jump onto any bandwagon. I like to make my own decisions, not play follow the leader. I have not nor do I intend to ask anyone to follow me. I don't tell my friends who they can and can't talk to. They know how to reach me when they have time and something to say. I will find other ways of diverting my mind away from my worries which involve less drama. And to quote one of my favorite movies of all time....that's all I'm gonna say about THAT.
I was going to let this one go, but I just kept coming back to it and gritting my teeth. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been edited, but...~shrugs~Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasker
Tasker, your reasons for wanting to moderate a chat room are good and very admirable. I think the problem is that there are quite a few of us who have stopped enjoying chat and having fun with friends, especially if said friends are getting banned. If they deserve to get banned, then so be it. By all means, ban them. But, I will never, for one second, believe that Red deserved it. Now for you to go on and basically say that those of us who disagree with the way things are going in chat nowadays are wanting to "play silly games"...~shakes my head~ Not nice. Everyone is entitled to their opinion...I am...and you are. I just find it odd that by disagreeing or stating a differing opinion, now suddenly we are all playing silly games?
Do I miss Library chat? Sure I do. I miss all my friends in there. I miss the fun. But I refuse to go back...until something changes. Until then I guess I will just gather up my friends and go play silly games with them in a different chatroom. ~rme~ Anyone up for a game of Monopoly? lol
I have been avoiding replying to this thread because not only am I totally in the dark about what actually happened, but also because this whole thing makes me very sad and brings back very painful memories of a similar situation that occured in the chatter that Dragon and I hung out in.
So I will just say this. I am staying out of this altercation because I have made many good friendships in the chat and I am not willing to let that go. I will continue to use the chatroom as long as I am welcome. I will chat with those that I consider friends and ignore those that annoy me. I wish some of my friends that left chat would come in occasionally and hang out with me, but I respect their decision to no longer do so if that is what they feel they must do. Sigh..... I can't say it doesn't sadden me though. :(
The online society is no different than RL. We are no better behaved nor are we worse. It is just easier to cut ourselves off when we are on the internet. If we had to face each other everyday as we do in 3D, maybe this could have been resolved at least to the point that some agreed to disagree. Maybe not.... Just my copper Tarn worth tonight. I really do love you guys! **HUGS** "Peace" ~blizz~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfscout
I did not mean to suggest that it is only a Dom/Domme that is offensive. I have seen subs be offensive. And I will admit, In the situation I mentioned above, I was probably offensive myself in a self defense way.
I have also seen people be repeatedly asked not to PM without asking. A particular person, really, but again I am not one to mention names. I have only seen one mod in the chat room do something about this. He was warned, and then kicked. That is the one and only time I have seen this happen. And this person is a repeat repeat offender and one who hardly "chats" in chat. Just kinda trolls.
Again, I think something needs to be done. There needs to be consistancy involved where rules are concerned. Cuz if there isnt, then really no ban is fair.
girl
So I wonder after all this will the room be somehow bettered by the extreme (IMO) actions taken. No longer plagued by the hate, bickering, and overall bad atmosphere that apparently must have existed in the previous room.
I'm at least glad that only 1 to 49 people had to be banned for the betterment of the 5000+ active members of the chat for it to become a better place and not some greater number (50+).
Maybe things will be better now. We shall see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodgirl_85
If someone is constantly PMing you in chat without permission, Ask a mod to PM, and then tell them who it is. We can't stop those we don't know about. If there is no mod in the room at the time, Use the PrtScn button to take a screen shot of the unwanted PM, paste it to a photo/mspaint program, and save it, then email it to AC. Also, Many times new folks don't bother to read the rules about PMs, tell them in the main room (not the PM, as this will only perpetuate their PMing) that they have to ask permission and gain it in order to PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheepishJaina
In my case, I told the person a few times in the room, and then a Mod PMed me, telling me to tell them if the person Pmed me again. When he did, the person was warned, and then kicked.
However, I only mentioned it because the person that was PMing me, IS NOT NEW. I have never seen him actually TALK in the chat room. And I have seen him be told by other members (not mods) to not pm them unless they ask and I have seen this more once. And I have never seen him kicked except the one case. And he has been told both when mods are and are not in the room.
My point is, shouldn't he in all contents and purposes, be banned, for repeated failure to follow rules.
girl
I'm quite sure I know whom you mean, and if its the person I'm thinking of, we need the proof, documented proof (screen shots) of them PMing, and then they will be banned for failure to follow the rules.
I would think people constantly telling this person not to pm them without permission would be enough... and no offense sheep, as you are one of the ones i spoke about in my original post in this thread, but you can not say that he will be banned. It has been posted in this very thread that yes mods can ban someone but not permanently. Only AC has that power. And really now, how many people are going to take screen shots. I for one dont even know how to do that. He has been kicked by a mod at least once. Others have complained about him.... You would think that would be enough proof to know that he is not following chat rules.
What's wrong with ignoring them? They have to be severely mentally disabled to be able to carry on PMs if they get nothing but ignored. And to ignore them all you have to do is look one line down. About 1/8" for most people.
Actually for me, it would be closing a box. For those who dont know there is a way ... i think in the settings section... to have your pms automatically pop up in a box.
I dont mind ignoring them, I was just making a point, as people are saying if you break rules you are out. There is no consistancy it seems, in the chat rooms. And by having no consistancy it makes all bans seem unfair and baised.
Why should Red, whom is loved by many in the chats, get banned when someone who hardly even talks in the room, and CONSISTENTLY breaks the rules is not banned? Because the powers that be say so? That makes it not fair. And again people are left with the thought of "which rules are ok to break this week and which are not"
girl
Nods, I see where you were going. But you know people are just going to respond with the default "well if I heard about it I would have done something about it." Red was loved so therefore high profile and anything she might do is noticed. In a system where what you contribute to the group means nothing it's easy for the popular ones to get banned, maybe. Or maybe a mod was insulted and made good use of their power to solve their personal problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by goodgirl_85
Now wait just a second.. You have never PMed me in chat about someone bothering you with PMs, so don't throw back in my face that I've not done anything. I may not be able to perma ban someone, but when I do ban a person, I email AC and he then perma bans them. I also told you in my post above how to take a screenshot. (hit PrtScn paste to a photo program, save)
Also, if you say in the main room that someone is PMing without permission, I speak to that person in PMs, so the whole room doesn't see the exchange. Just complaining about someone is not proof that they are actually breaking the rules. We know its going on, but without hard proof, I refuse to actually ban someone.
Please can this thread be kept to a discussion of the more general issues rather than slipping into the rights and wrongs of a particular situation.
Sheepish, thank you for the point about taking screenshots and saving them, and of course if the PM appears in the main chat screen it can be saved as part of the room log. As a side point, screenshots can also be pasted into things like word documents and saved there (just because not everyone is familiar using photo editing software).
However, I fear that I have to say in the current atmosphere which includes accusations of modification of room logs, screen shots, or series of screen shots are the best 'evidence'.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrr - has a part of this site which I once saw as a second home, and which helped me through a very difficult time, really slipped, for whatever reason, to a state where I have to say that.
Very, very sad.
cariad
I too don't know all the politics and the things that have led to this thread being started. I do respect all the people that are posting in here and I wish to state again how proud I am that you are able to discuss this without things becoming a he said she said situation.
Very little post editing goes on here unless its breaking site rules and those of you who have been mods know this, those of us who are mods have to leave things here that we may not agree with if its not a flame or breaking rules. I do think that there (I hope so anyway) is not much more to say on this topic as I know that the chat admin knows this is here and has read it. Your voices have been heard.
I AM going to go into the chat room because I like to say hi in real life when I have time to all the people whos posts are so interesting and get to know them a bit better, I hope that some of you will wander in again and things will become better.
I for the most part do believe that (and maybe i am being an optimist in human nature) everyone here wants to be part of a great online community and the chat room is no exception. I am willing to give things a chance to improve, I hope that everyone here is as well.
Just my two cents as a member, not a moderator of this forum.
OK as a complete stranger to the chat room but trying to follow this thread I must ask, does "PM" have a different meaning in the chat room than it does here in the forum?
Warbaby .. a PM in chat brings up a window similar to an IM window between you and one other. The Initial chat page under rules says that permission has to be asked chat room before PMing .. not in PM . Many new people often violate that rule as they do not take time to read and/or adhere to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfscout
Thanks Wolf
No problem.
babt_girl(W) My sincerest appologies if my previous comment appeared to be directed at you. It was not. Reading back over my original post I can see I made the error of generalising way too much in an effort to avoid naming names.Quote:
Originally Posted by baby girl(W)
The orginal one was about a small group that was started and has seem to have grown all due to the fact that someone complained to their S/O that they had been banned from chat and when in fact they HAD NOT been at the time and spiraled downhill from there. Unfortunatly others then jumped on the bandwagon, some for reasons of their own, some with an axe to grind, and some because they wanted to believe their friend.
The whole situation IMHO is sad as there have been members that have left of their own accord over this.
PMs without permission. Let a Mod know. I NEVER let that one pass without the PMer being at first given a polite warning, in the main room, that PMing without obtaining permission in the main room is not allowed. As sheepy has stated, we need to know who is doing it before we can deal with the problem.
One thing to bear in mind when you see a ban occur in chat. You do not know how many times that particular person may have been warned about their behaviour or breach of rules. Most warnings happen via PM. the room does not see this, nor should they. Peolpe do make mistakes, so they get a first polite warning in PM. The sole exception to this I use is for a first time PM without permission. This also lets everyone know and reminds them of that rule.
Sheep- I was not throwing anything in your face. Nor was I trying say that you weren't doing your job. All i was saying was that it seems the rules are being enforced inconsistently and that is one particular situation in which I can personally adhere to.
You say you know who it is I am talking about, you say others know it is going on... well point blank... He has been kicked from chat at least once because of this, and told politely by others that PMing is not allowed without permission.
And btw the PrntScrn button... yeah I wouldnt be able to give you any proof because i tried it after you told me about it and it didnt work.
girl
Can you highlight it, copy, and then paste it into a word processing program? Also maybe try "Alt PrtScrn."Quote:
Originally Posted by goodgirl_85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfscout
Glad I am not the only one who knows the difference between common courtesy and respect. No one has a right to demand respect but everyone has the right to be treated with common courstey. If someone wants me to fall in line then they had better live up to their own standards. I am not one for following someone I don’t respect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasker
~sorry cariad~
i take offense to the "bandwagon" remark because, to me, it implies that the people that posted in this thread are merely following a general idea, not thinking on their own. and this is of course assuming you were speaking mainly of this particular thread, considering you are posting in it.
i had absolutely no intentions of spreading my opinion or convincing those of it. many people have asked what exactly this thread was about, or what was going on, and not a single time have i attempted to explain to them.
i started this thread solely to voice my opinion of a problem i perceived. i'm not particularly friendly with any of those that have been banned, not anymore friendly than i am/was with you, Tasker, AC and delia. i am not taking sides, except my own side.
And obviously, there is a real problem, for SO many people to feel basically the same as i do. i was just the first to actually publicly say something, well besides Red.
And as DTT pointed out, apparently there is SOME sort of problem that needs to be addressed seeing as so many people have said they will no longer be apart of the chat room.
So maybe instead of everyone getting offended, maybe they should simply take an unbiased step back and look at it from a different, impersonal point of view.
Maybe instead of getting angry at those of us that chose to maturely voice our opinions that aren't the same of yours, you should actually listen.
There is no easy solution to this problem. It's a pretty big, but also delicate problem. It involves individuals and i understand completely that in this situation it's very hard for sides not to get offended. i realize that people felt as if they were under attack.
But no one, from either "side", has been told not to voice their own concerns, suggestions, or opinions. Because that is exactly what this thread was made for.
And Tasker for the record, only maybe half of this was actually directed at you. The rest was at the rest of the individuals on the "other side".