Bush's Place in History.

I would like to discuss this but you will have to wait until I can find my book "debunked".

"None, accoding tothe Unisted States Consitution for the US to go to war a Delelaration of War is supposed to be passed by Congress"

You are a little bit out of date here. Congress gave the President the authority to take action as the CIC for troop concentrations of up to 200,000. And in spite of that Congress authorized military action against Iraq.

"As far as the wiretaping goes I can hardlybelieve that ever single person in the United States needs thier phone taped for "National Security Rasons":"

But that is not happening! It is logistically impossible!

"rembmerthat BinLaden launch 911 from Afghinstand NOT Iraq"

So you are of the opinion that terrorists exist only in Afghanistan?

I would have a lot to say here but since you would not care .......

How many died in the superdome and of what cause?

You misread!

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Originally Posted by Belgarold

You know, saying something does not automatically mean it is magically true.

You HAVE called ALL Democrats Socialists and Communists. Is this true? Not by a long shot. THIS IS CALLING NAMES.

LOL. In this post alone you say you do NOT call people who hold opposing views cowards and whiners and then you state, "Talk about whining . . ." THIS IS CALLING SOMEONE WHO HOLDS AN OPPOSING VIEW A WHINER.

"True intellectuals . . ." SMUGNESS AND SUPERIORITY by definition. I hope, you are not calling yourself elitist. LOL.

And that is just the first few sentences of your post. It does not even mention the ridiculous notion that Bush and company took ANY responsibility for ANY of the many mistakes they made.

And HOW are republicans being gracious in defeat. They are all fighting the president every step of the way. Some, like Alan Keyes, have leveled veiled threats of assassination.

Joe the Plumber (Sam the Opportunist) has proposed armed military action against members of Congress. Rush Limbaugh wants the American Economy to fail.

Now I KNOW from the evidence of your previous posts that you will just deny these things ever happened. So this will be my last post on the subject. "True Intellectuals" know when someone is not worth their time.

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THANK YOU
Apparently if our view do not coincide with their we are Liberaal Comunist Democrats, that is beyond Laughable

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Originally Posted by mkemse

Obama won the elctroal count which pt him into office no matte how old that system is by almost a 3-1 margin, that has to mean something

Actually there is not much store one can put in the margin in the College. You do realize that the college exists because the founders did not think the people would be able to decide on their own?

The Media does not elect Presidents, voters do

True the people cast the ballots but that cast is, in my opinion, unduly influenced by the choices the media makes.

whatthis Country needs to do, whether it happens or not is another question is abolish the electral college and elect the Prsident based soely on Popular vote,

As much as I think the reason for the College is a poor one I am not sure that relying solely on the popular vote would be much better. The last three major elections were all essentially dead heats with one of them ending in court and another nearly so. Do you really think that is a better solution?

as i said the electroal college is old, outdated ect, byt the current realuity is that you need thos votes to win the White House what you get Popular vote wise means nothing right now,

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Do you understand how the College works? Delegates to the College are selected from the states. They are pledged to vote in the College to mirror the election outcome in the State. All votes in the College go to the winner of the State even if that margin of win was one vote

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Originally Posted by wmrs2

Sir, I will do my best to not refer to you as a Communist or a Socialist. However, if you give an idea that is basic Communist or Socialist, it must be considered fair play that the idea is basic communism or Socialism, ok?

This being said, after your lecture on keeping on the thread topic, what in your response here relates to Bush's legacy in history? I missed that.

One more thing (in your opinion) how is the Democratic Party not the socialist party in America? And, what is a Democrat? And, how can a Dem. be objective in the historical evaluation of Bush? These are reasonable questions and on topic. I hope you will answer these so we can find some common ground for discussion.

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Thank you please don't because I am a Democrat does not make me either Communist or a Socialist

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Originally Posted by DuncanONeil

"rembmerthat BinLaden launch 911 from Afghinstand NOT Iraq"

So you are of the opinion that terrorists exist only in Afghanistan?

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No there are terrorist world wide, but at thetime of 911 Al Quisa and Bin Laden were based in Afghanistan in the Tora Bora Mountains as many have suggested but never proved

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Originally Posted by DuncanONeil

"None, accoding tothe Unisted States Consitution for the US to go to war a Delelaration of War is supposed to be passed by Congress"

You are a little bit out of date here. Congress gave the President the authority to take action as the CIC for troop concentrations of up to 200,000. And in spite of that Congress authorized military action against Iraq.

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Ok never read of hear about a Delclaration War Declared, justthat we planned to invadewith 25,00 tropps which now is over 150,000

als I postes earlier in this thread the Definition of Communism as you asked, It was post last night (March 2, 2009) t is hre somewhere justnot sure now with all the after psosts were it is located

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Originally Posted by DuncanONeil

You misread!

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My friend, you are doing a good job at debunking the liberals' rhetoric strategy. You are sticking to the facts and giving simple, correct examples of the truth. Eventually this type of fact giving and questioning will break through.

It is a very popular theory that if you continue to see what you are by having it pointed out to you that you are a certain way, this will make you want to change to being the person you would really like to be. This is the "looking glass theory" and you use it very well.

Americans do not want to be labeled with certain names which have historically been rejected by the American public. We have experienced this resentment on this thread as members don't like being labeled as socialist and communist. They have a point in stating this resentment and I suppose we should try to honor their request not to be so labeled.

Yet, does this mean that we should not describe how their political views come across to us? We have witnessed the criticism of capitalism in relation to what President Obama is attempting with the economy. Honestly, very few people know what to do about the economy. The opinion of most Americans, I believe, is to allow the economy to cycle out. In the meantime, Obama's effort at reconstruction seems to be a good thing. But, if his agenda is to replace the capitalist system to a socialist system, like Rush said, I hope he fails.

I look for liberals to jump on this statement like they did Rush this morning on all news channels. In their criticism of Rush they deliberately left out his reference to "But if." Clearly Rush wants socialism to fail but just as clearly he wants Oboma to succeed. "But if" changes everything. The liberal press and many Democrats would rather demonize Rush for saying the President should fail and then come back with the statement that he is the head of the Republican Party to make all anti-socialist Republicans demonized. I think when it comes down to it, most Democrats would like to see Karl Marx. and the tenants of communism fail.

Part of the positive legacy of G. Bush will be that he supported Obama's efforts to rebuild the country by not being critical or revengeful about how he was treated. There has to come a time when the Democrats and Republicans set aside the type of rhetoric such as that cited above and really do what is best for the country. If we continue to seize on every petty word that is said, only the true enemies of our country will win. My suggestion is that we raise the level of debate and stick to the facts with less personal attacks and more accurate descriptions of what we truly are - all Americans.

From what I have witnessed it seems the Republicans have their own messiah complex. They worship Limbaugh. He who will not brook any dissenting opinions. He who is so UnAmerican that he wants the country to fail, the President to fail.

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Originally Posted by Belgarold

From what I have witnessed it seems the Republicans have their own messiah complex. They worship Limbaugh. He who will not brook any dissenting opinions. He who is so UnAmerican that he wants the country to fail, the President to fail.

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I believe but I could be wrong but Micheal Steele the Charman of the RNC Last Night told people to ignore Rush that he does not speak for the vast majority of Republicans and he is just expressing his view, but he did emphisise for peole to pay no attention to Rush and the Party will distance itself from him as they can
But Rush does love oxicondin :)

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Originally Posted by DuncanONeil

All campaigning is directed at those that are in the camp of undecided.

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Except they are not undecided! They decided months, years, decades ago that they were Republicans or Democrats and they will fight tooth and nail against anyone who tries to gainsay them. Facts mean nothing, statistics mean nothing, legality or illegality mean nothing. "If he's in my Party, he's right!"

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Originally Posted by Thorne

Except they are not undecided! They decided months, years, decades ago that they were Republicans or Democrats and they will fight tooth and nail against anyone who tries to gainsay them. Facts mean nothing, statistics mean nothing, legality or illegality mean nothing. "If he's in my Party, he's right!"

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It is unclear to whom you refer as I have seen both Dems and Reps behave in a very irrational manner. But slur them all; that way you get them all. What was pointed out about what Rush said, "But if" did not mean anything to many Dems who refuse to be fair in their judgment. The ignoring the facts is not the monopoly of any one party. I think that is the nature of politics and broad minded people will understand this, don't you agree?

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Originally Posted by wmrs2

It is unclear to whom you refer as I have seen both Dems and Reps behave in a very irrational manner. But slur them all; that way you get them all. What was pointed out about what Rush said, "But if" did not mean anything to many Dems who refuse to be fair in their judgment. The ignoring the facts is not the monopoly of any one party. I think that is the nature of politics and broad minded people will understand this, don't you agree?

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Very, Very true on the "What If", but Micheal Steele of RNC Chairmsan said last night on FOX News that Rush does not speak for the Republican Party as a whole, that he needs to as he put it "shut up" and he wants to try and distance the Party from Rush, the interviews was on one of the Fox News Channels last night, not a liberal netowrk at but Rush as said on his radio show countless time nothing ould make him happier thenl and to have the Obama Admistration fail completey so America can elect a REAL President, Ann Coulter supported him on this John MccAin said both are way out fo line and thei rremarks to do speak for him or most Republicians he knows

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Originally Posted by mkemse

I believe but I could be wrong but Micheal Steele the Charman of the RNC Last Night told people to ignore Rush that he does not speak for the vast majority of Republicans and he is just expressing his view, but he did emphisise for peole to pay no attention to Rush and the Party will distance itself from him as they can
But Rush does love oxicondin :)

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M. Steele apologized fo Rush this morning for the remarks he made. Mr.Steel was slow to catch on to the strategy of the liberal commentators who refuse to recognize "But if." Liberal commentators will never stop twisting the facts if they can keep the two parties divided. What Oboma is trying to do is include everybody in the government. Right now I believe that but the die hards will not let go of their criticisms of the past.

Every broad minded American knows that it is time to forget the past and look to the future. If the liberal press keeps smarting off about Bush, Rove, and Republican leaders, Rep will be forced to eventually fight back. Once we start fighting like before the election it can do no good for the country.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wmrs2

It is unclear to whom you refer as I have seen both Dems and Reps behave in a very irrational manner. But slur them all; that way you get them all. What was pointed out about what Rush said, "But if" did not mean anything to many Dems who refuse to be fair in their judgment. The ignoring the facts is not the monopoly of any one party. I think that is the nature of politics and broad minded people will understand this, don't you agree?

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I was not referring to any one party, but to all those people, of any party, any race, any religion, who will follow the pronouncements of some so-called celebrity as if they were gospel without bothering to check the facts for themselves.

Granted, there are variations within this broad group, some who are fanatical followers and some who are much less so.

As for what Rush said being taken out of context, I think fair-minded people would have to admit that he is the king of doing the very same thing. From the little that I have heard, or read, he will consistently twist people's words to fit his own ideology, and when that might prove difficult to do, he will expound pompously on "what this really means!"

And certainly, he is not alone in this, nor is it a strictly conservative, or liberal, failing. It's a valid, recognized propaganda technique, which works quite well with an undereducated population, and works even better with fanatical followers who wouldn't dream of questioning their glorious leaders.

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Originally Posted by wmrs2

M. Steele apologized fo Rush this morning for the remarks he made. Mr.Steel was slow to catch on to the strategy of the liberal commentators who refuse to recognize "But if." Liberal commentators will never stop twisting the facts if they can keep the two parties divided. What Oboma is trying to do is include everybody in the government. Right now I believe that but the die hards will not let go of their criticisms of the past.

Every broad minded American knows that it is time to forget the past and look to the future. If the liberal press keeps smarting off about Bush, Rove, and Republican leaders, Rep will be forced to eventually fight back. Once we start fighting like before the election it can do no good for the country.

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I just located that apology which to me means the Rush LImbough runs the RNC not Steele, just my opinion but limbough also said he would rather commit Hari Kari then Run a Party in the sad shape the RNC is in right now, he woule stop being a Repubican if he was approached about the RNC
But I did see Micheal Stelles apology

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wmrs2

Every broad minded American knows that it is time to forget the past and look to the future. If the liberal press keeps smarting off about Bush, Rove, and Republican leaders, Rep will be forced to eventually fight back. Once we start fighting like before the election it can do no good for the country.

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Well put. But don't just condemn the "liberal press"; include the conservative media (Rush, et al) in your statement.

It's time to stop being liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat. It's time to start being Americans! Brothers and sisters united in defense of our country and our way of life. Find common ground in the middle of our belief systems and work from there. We are all seeking the same goals! Don't let corrupt politicians, over-paid industrialists, or loud-mouthed talk show hosts steal our heritage from us! Question everything, don't take anyone's word, search out the FACTS. Everyone in this forum (I presume) has a connection to the Internet. USE that to learn the truth, not just the propaganda.

the biggest issue with the RNC is nobody in the Hieracxhy of the GOP has the GUTS to stand up to Rush Limbough

As President Obma said "We are The UNITED States of America, not the Blue States, Red State, Yellow States of America but the United States Of America all people in one Nation"

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Originally Posted by Belgarold

From what I have witnessed it seems the Republicans have their own messiah complex. They worship Limbaugh. He who will not brook any dissenting opinions. He who is so UnAmerican that he wants the country to fail, the President to fail.

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Don't bite on that worm. Commentators live to get you upset. Limbaugh gets a kick out of making Dems and Liberals go off half cocked accusing people of being UnAmerican and judgmental. You play into his hands with such responses, he makes money off your anger and is motivated to say more to incite you.

Let us try to be bigger than both the rhetoric of the liberal and conservative commentators. They probably call each other tonight to plan their next argument to upset as many people as they can. I wish I could make money off everybody's anger like they do. Look, point out the facts and leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by Thorne

Well put. But don't just condemn the "liberal press"; include the conservative media (Rush, et al) in your statement.

It's time to stop being liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat. It's time to start being Americans! Brothers and sisters united in defense of our country and our way of life. Find common ground in the middle of our belief systems and work from there. We are all seeking the same goals! Don't let corrupt politicians, over-paid industrialists, or loud-mouthed talk show hosts steal our heritage from us! Question everything, don't take anyone's word, search out the FACTS. Everyone in this forum (I presume) has a connection to the Internet. USE that to learn the truth, not just the propaganda.

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Well-said Thorne. And until we can put aside the bickering and posturing we will get nowhere. Yes, Rush and his ilk, and that includes some on my side of the aisle as well, have an AGENDA and it is a personal agenda. Calculated to gain ratings and more power.

For instance, as I have said, I dont agree with you Thorne on every issue. But I believe you have the best interests of the country at heart. As I feel I do and the President. And until we can all join hands, even with those we don't agree with, we will not get out of this mess.

Anyway, thank you for your reasoned post.

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Originally Posted by wmrs2

Don't bite on that worm. Commentators live to get you upset. Limbaugh gets a kick out of making Dems and Liberals go off half cocked accusing people of being UnAmerican and judgmental. You play into his hands with such responses, he makes money off your anger and is motivated to say more to incite you.

Let us try to be bigger than both the rhetoric of the liberal and conservative commentators. They probably call each other tonight to plan their next argument to upset as many people as they can. I wish I could make money off everybody's anger like they do. Look, point out the facts and leave it at that.

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Yes we are I agree let's all live together as 1

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Originally Posted by Thorne

Well put. But don't just condemn the "liberal press"; include the conservative media (Rush, et al) in your statement.

It's time to stop being liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat. It's time to start being Americans! Brothers and sisters united in defense of our country and our way of life. Find common ground in the middle of our belief systems and work from there. We are all seeking the same goals! Don't let corrupt politicians, over-paid industrialists, or loud-mouthed talk show hosts steal our heritage from us! Question everything, don't take anyone's word, search out the FACTS. Everyone in this forum (I presume) has a connection to the Internet. USE that to learn the truth, not just the propaganda.

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I can buy that, although it is difficult to put the past behind us. It can be done.

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Originally Posted by mkemse

the biggest issue with the RNC is nobody in the Hieracxhy of the GOP has the GUTS to stand up to Rush Limbough

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Now see! Just when we were getting off to such a good start, you start with your Guts theory. You need to try harder than this.

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Originally Posted by mkemse

As President Obma said "We are The UNITED States of America, not the Blue States, Red State, Yellow States of America but the United States Of America all people in one Nation"

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Now, that is a little better. Keep trying and we'll all get there together.