Punish when upset

[laine]

I was just wondering out of curiousty.........

Should you punish your submissive or slave when your upset......not out of control upset or mad but just very upset or is it better to send the sub/slave off for a while until your are cool and calm???


thank you

laine

[MrDom]

I never punish my slave at anytime I am upset. I send her to her place to think about what she did. When I am calm down thenI tell her to assume her place in front of me and we talk about what she did. Then if I feel she needs more punishment I do it when I'am clam and then have her count the stroke and thank me for the punishment and I tell here as the punishment contuines for each stroke about how much I love and care for her. But every master and slave situation is different .


MrDom

[Timberwolf]

I think it depends a lot what kind of "punishment' we're talking about. Usually my legitimate punishments consist of "boring" activities, like corner time. I prefer to use SM activity for fun, and not always as punishment.

If a sub was the kind that did see SM activity as good for punishment too, I still wouldn't do anything with that until after the other more boring activity, both because it's effective, and because if I was legitimately upset, cool down time is sensible. I don't believe in doing SM activity with a sub while I'm upset. For lack of a better term, I think it's messing with bad mojo. People make mistakes when they are upset, control lessens. And I think control dugin such play is vital to the experience not becoming a bad one.

[MasterC]

I think it depends a lot what kind of "punishment' we're talking about. Usually my legitimate punishments consist of "boring" activities, like corner time. I prefer to use SM activity for fun, and not always as punishment.

If a sub was the kind that did see SM activity as good for punishment too, I still wouldn't do anything with that until after the other more boring activity, both because it's effective, and because if I was legitimately upset, cool down time is sensible. I don't believe in doing SM activity with a sub while I'm upset. For lack of a better term, I think it's messing with bad mojo. People make mistakes when they are upset, control lessens. And I think control dugin such play is vital to the experience not becoming a bad one.

I agree completly with Timberwolf on this. to punish while upset is asking for trouble. And My slave loves pain, so its not effective as a punishment. the boring stuff is much better.Always calm down, then punish, never the opposite.

Master C

[_ID_]

Ok, there are different kinds of punishment. Physical, and verbal. Both have very large impact on a submissive, and when done in ager, both can become abusive.

I would like to share one view on this;

http://www.seekers.org.uk/PunishmentvDiscipline.htm

Never punish/discipline out of anger. Everyone is human, including submissives. And as humans, they are prone to making mistakes. Mistakes in actions and of judgment. So do Dominants. Punishment/discipline in anger is nothing short of abuse. If You’re angry, delay the punishment/ discipline. Set a time for later, when You’re clear, level headed and in control of Yourself and Your emotions. Always punish/discipline for the sole purpose of achieving personal and lifestyle growth for Your submissive. That is to say that punishment/discipline is not retribution for You as a Dominant. It is not Your pound of flesh. It is a lesson, a reminder, something to help Your submissive learn how to achieve their objective of enhancing their submission. Remember, they need Your help and guidance to achieve personal and lifestyle growth. Part of Your growth as a Dominant is to learn the self control that ensures Your punishment/discipline has a legitimate and noble purpose. “Getting even” is neither.
Y/you may have noticed that I have been referring to “punishment/ discipline”, rather than the more commonly used term of simply “punishment”. That’s because of the connotations attached to the term punishment, which is most frequently thought of as being physical in nature. A paddling, the strap, etc. I make a distinction between physical punishment and discipline, which would be non-physical in nature. An assignment, loss of privileges, or some other activity that teaches, creates self-control and promotes personal and lifestyle growth.

Thats view is one that is shared by nearly everyone in the lifestyle and who subscribes to everything that SSC implies.

All that aside, depending on the relationship, and the dynamics of a TPE relationship. If the submissive has agreed to her Dom/me's Master/Mistress punishment methods prior to the punishment happening. Then regardless of when where why or the emotions involved. At that time a punishment in that regard given while angry could be acceptable.

Again, with the idea of abuse in mind. If this occurs often (often being subjective). Then it could become abuse, but it it were seldom. I would side more with the Dominant punishing his submissive while angry, than not.


V/R
ID

[Warbaby1943]

I think it only wise to never punish in anger. Cooler heads always prevail and in this case is by far the better choice.

[Ozme52]

On the other hand, there are occassions when the punishment must meet the bad behaviour head on. Wait and the details of the behavior wane and the punishment will seem petty.

But one can still count to ten as s/he bends over your knee or assumes the appropriate position so that though mad, one's control is maintained.

[Stealth694]

As a Dom the one thing I must have is control, and a sub relies on that. Any Dom that punishes or even scenes with someone when they are upset or not totally focused on the scene is Not a Dom just a wannabe who doesn't even begin to know what Domming is about

[Timberwolf]

"A True Dom is always in control "

No comment.

[The Master]

I'm a firm believer in punishing only when you are not angry enough that your mind is too clouded for sane judgement, anger makes people sloppy and act at times that can result in a negative way for the submissive or slave. There are some pain slaves/subs that may enjoy it but I prefer to do everything where all my punishments have a reason behind them instead of pure rage.

[slaveangel{HM}]

oops i realised i wasn't meant to post this here, my apologies ~a

When I did the wrong thing, He always told me to kneel before Him and make me retell what I did wrong. Not only to humilate me and make me regret my action more, but also to allow Him time to gather His thoughts.

The disappointment in His eyes was enough of a punishment for me. But generally I am a good girl so punishing me is something that is truly rare, so to see that disappointment throws me in turmoil, and He knew it.

As I retold what I did, He took that time to calm down and refocus, and also give Him time to think of what to do with me.

Often the mental thing of Him stepping away and leaving me there, was torture enough. He knew it was terrible for me, that a) I disappointed him and b) Him making it sink in by not giving me His attention while He gathered His thoughts.

I take a punishment when I know in my heart I have done wrong, and I have disappointed Him so badly. It just feels right, that need to make ammends. I am not the kind of person who gets punished just for the sake of it. Don't get me wrong, there is a difference between pleasure play, and punishment. You can do the same activity, but it is the intention of why you do that activity that determines the feelings and situation at hand.

[Guest 91108]

I have found punishment is less punishing than letting her be upset that i am.
Perhaps igoring for a time, or restrictions should work more and give me cool down time if i am truly upset. not just for a few hours either....But that is my current situation. a longer time out.

[Ozme52]

Ah, but isn't ignoring your submissive, or showing how upset you are because you're so mad, just as "dangerous" emotionally to your submissve?

In fact, I think many submissives would far prefer physical punishment to emotional punishment. I think emotional punishment is actually the cruelest cut of all.

So if I'm mad, I'll galdly count to ten and apply my hand or paddle to her bottom so we can set the infraction aside and move on.

[Talia]

Ah, but isn't ignoring your submissive, or showing how upset you are because you're so mad, just as "dangerous" emotionally to your submissve?

In fact, I think many submissives would far prefer physical punishment to emotional punishment. I think emotional punishment is actually the cruelest cut of all.

So if I'm mad, I'll galdly count to ten and apply my hand or paddle to her bottom so we can set the infraction aside and move on.

Ozzy, I'm glad you addressed this form of punishment. "Ignoring" is probably the worst and really likely to serve the opposite of the intended out come. Dom of mine tried that once....worked differently than he intended. This proceeded to anger me rather punish me. Frankly, I feel, this isn't punishment at all but rather abusive on the emotional part.

[Ozme52]

Ozzy, I'm glad you addressed this form of punishment. "Ignoring" is probably the worst and really likely to serve the opposite of the intended out come. Dom of mine tried that once....worked differently than he intended. This proceeded to anger me rather punish me. Frankly, I feel, this isn't punishment at all but rather abusive on the emotional part.

So imagine if it occurs in a fit of pique.

[Daes]

I think it depends on how the Dom is ignoring his/her sub.

I have experienced this kind of retribution on both bad and good terms, and I can agree with Talia because majority of the time it made me very angry. However when I was angry it was because I was trying to communicate my personal feelings about the situation, and I felt I was being wrongly punished.

On one hand, ignoring the sub for a certain amount of time can allow the Dom to cool off and collect his/her thoughts- and I can understand this- but on another it can also be used in order to manipulate.

I think the difference between the two Must be clarified. The Dom can easily say he/she needs time to think, and it would be okay for the sub to know that the Dom is upset and needs to calm down.

But if the sub feels he/she is being ignored or being treated in a childish manner on the Dom's part- especially when the sub is trying to communicate something important- there can be a lot of anger and frustration in which the punishment no longer enforces positive behavior.

[Slut Whipper]

Better be cool, I always ask my slave what her punishment should be, give her time tp think about it, she will reply, but being a painslut like she is; I sometimes choose to ignore for a while what makes her think more and later I will give her the punishment I think is correct.

[Rhabbi]

I would never punish a slave while angry. Punishment must be disciplined, and, with me, bare hande. The reason for this is so she knows she is being punished, and so that she knows I am in pain also. (I injured my right wrist and everytime I turn it the wrong way, or make a sudden movement, it hurts me.) This way she is hurt not only by the punishment, but by the fact that I am serious enoiugh about it to endure pain myself to show her that seriousness.

[MG_cleo]

Greetings to all here.

Interesting thread, and a subject which i have considered in some depth over the years. It is my firm belief that punishment should always be entirely separate from any other kind of D/s or BDSM play activity. Therefore the "punishment" suggested where the sub is set a task to go and do something exciting for her does not constitute a punishment. If it created that good a feeling in the sub then why do as you are told?

If the sub expects a "nice" punishemnet that will be exciting or in any sense rewarding then she will act up in order to get that. Immediately that happens the punishment is not effective.

In the nearly 5 years that my slave and I have lived 24/7 I have only punished her ONCE. That day lives on in both of our memories and was as awful for me as it was for her. Before considering what punishment is required, a Dominant should consider very carefully whether punishment is actually required at all. Please see the linked article entitled "To Punish or Not?" written by me and within my site D/s Seekers.

Of course one should never punish in anger, and should always carefully consider all the options, possibilities and consequences of such action.

Punishment, in my view is not a game, and as such, when i hear the lines in chat room etc "ohh I have been bad master will punish me...." etc etc I smile to myself, and think "If only you really knew" .....

Be Well and above all, Be safe

Regards

MG

[Harsh Master]

Never punish any sub when your angry you will hurt her more than you intended too. Send her to do some meaningless task cleaning the floor with her toothbrush while naked make her keep her legs open to humilate her while you think about your actions you will take next and when you have punished her always hug her afterwards and let her tell you how sorry she is for letting you down then kisss her (smiles well thats how I do it)

[crazy_grrluk]

no matter what...one should never punish when upset or in anger....so much damage can be done.... plus you are not in control of your actions

[Logic1]

no matter what...one should never punish when upset or in anger....so much damage can be done.... plus you are not in control of your actions

I couldnt have said it better myself cg.

And no, a Master isnt always in control. We are just like any other person with our ups and downs, no matter what people want to think of themselves.

[Ozme52]

no matter what...one should never punish when upset or in anger....so much damage can be done.... plus you are not in control of your actions

That's a broad assumption. No less than I can be in total control of my actions in an emergency, when perhaps a life is at stake and my 'fear' should be paralyzing me... I can be coldly efficient and in control when angered.

Yes, there are individuals who must know themselves and contain themselves from acting in anger... but if what you say were unequivocably true, no parent could sensibly punish their child at the moment of the infraction... and no child can really learn if the punishment comes minutes later... let alone hours.

[crazy_grrluk]

That's a broad assumption. No less than I can be in total control of my actions in an emergency, when perhaps a life is at stake and my 'fear' should be paralyzing me... I can be coldly efficient and in control when angered.

Yes, there are individuals who must know themselves and contain themselves from acting in anger... but if what you say were unequivocably true, no parent could sensibly punish their child at the moment of the infraction... and no child can really learn if the punishment comes minutes later... let alone hours.

im sorry but I still stand by the do not punsih whilst being angry....in full anger noone is in control of their actions. and I am talking phyical punishment.
punishment such as silence is more effective.
plus you have that time to cool down before discussing the reasons for the anger and finding out why it happened.

just my tuppence worth.

[wingsofanangel]

Never ever punish while angry... nope nope

and I must agree.. for me.. being ignored or seperated from my Dom was the worst. But it was also the most effective. I am very hands on.. clingy.. needy... type.. I need that attention.. and being seperated or cut off from it even for 5 minutes is torture.. it is diff. for every couple and they must find what works. I rarely ever ever had to be punished by Ocean... knowing he was disapointed in me was the worst.... gosh...

[Ozme52]

Never ever punish while angry... nope nope

and I must agree.. for me.. being ignored or seperated from my Dom was the worst. But it was also the most effective. I am very hands on.. clingy.. needy... type.. I need that attention.. and being seperated or cut off from it even for 5 minutes is torture.. it is diff. for every couple and they must find what works. I rarely ever ever had to be punished by Ocean... knowing he was disapointed in me was the worst.... gosh...

Go up a bit and read some of the older posts...

Are you including in this statement to never punish while angry, non-physical punishment such as separation? Verbal punishment?

[jeanne]

I'd rather get the punishment out of the way as soon as possible - the waiting is the worst. (And is perhaps part of the punishment? Hmmm, must think on that.) And I trust him to know if he's truly too angry to punish me at that very moment, and stop.

[Rhabbi]

I do not punish while upset, and that would include anything like a seperation or ignoring. But if I am truly mad I will need time to cool off, and I will say that in advance so that she knows what is happening. Afterwards I often detiremine that the cooling off preiod was more than enough to serve as punishment because of its effectiveness. She knows how upset I have to be to need time to cool off, and ultimately how disappointed I am in her.

Another drawback to not waitng until I cool off is that I might end up punishing her for being right, something that I have time to see if I allow myself to cool down.

[Logic1]

there is a huge difference between corporal punishments and verbal/ignoring but I still stay by MY opinion that you shouldnt punish while in full anger.

[Austerus]

I will engage in punishment such as separation, ignoring, etc. when angry as if nothing else it will help me calm down to have a bit of quiet/space. But engaging in more active punishment whether verbal or physical runs a serious risk of crossing the line into abuse, and is almost certainly going to teach a sub the wrong lesson if it teaches anything at all.

For me the goal isn't to have someone who is obeying me because she is afraid of me flying off the handle and beating her/screaming at her. The mere idea of that turns my stomach. I'd rather be able to have a calm conversation (ok...give a calm lecture) about what the problem is, what punishment is going to be assigned, and how she can work to do better in the future. That way I know my punishment is enforcing the right thing *shrug*

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