Not Religion, Not Philosophy Just Need Some Help...........

[Eponine]

I thought why not turn to this community about something as banal as toddler tantrums and bedtime battles...
I know this place may not be the right venue, but I think some of you have children at various ages.
I have been doing research online and offline (books and other parents) to figure out how to get my 27 month old boy relaxed for bedtime.

I have a routine! I have varied as I thought necessary along the way.

The problem is that currently we are sharing a bed due to circumstance, so he knows that is where I sleep too and no matter what time it is, he will not sleep without me too. Conversely, if I lie down with him at 7 or 11, he will fall asleep if I do.

I've tried putting him down at various times (looking for his "sleepytime window"), but to no avail. The energy abounds.

Now I am at the point of just letting him (or getting him to) stay in the room without me so I can have my own down time. But of course he's not staying in the room.

anybody?

[annie]

ok... let me start off by saying i am a rather mean hard ass mom on certain things... and let me follow that by saying that we were told to do this by a child's counselor. i even questioned if CPS ever had a reason to come to the house if we would be in trouble for this practice and was assured we wouldn't be. (Which i made her note in the file... lol.)

So, don't know if there are other people in the house or not, but turn the door knob around, so it locks from the outside, and explain to him that he either stays in the room alone and goes to sleep or you will have to lock the door. Encourage him to make a wise choice, keep with a steady time/routine, etc. When he gets out and comes out the first time explain to him that is not acceptable and then put him in the room and lock the door. It will probably set off a huge tantrum. Assure him before you close the door that you love him, he is safe, etc. but that it is his bedtime and time for mommy to have a time out (or whatever you wish to call it) and he will remain in the room. DO NOT open the door back up, etc. If you do you are feeding into the problem and it will only continue. We were told no matter how long the screaming took place to not give in. (Which was one of the hardest things i have done as a mom!) In time he will stay in the room with the door opened because he doesn't want it locked, etc.

Just my suggestion, as mean as it may sound....

[nk_lion]

I don't have any kids, but have baby sitted a lot of my cousins who were far from perfect little angels so I had to invent so many different ways to get them to go to sleep.

My most successful one is getting them to play the quiet game, and while initially they found it funny, I just gave the impression that losing this one game was a bad thing, and after a couple of days, it started working.

I also would take them swimming everyday which got them tired and eventually used to a schedule of sleeping.

And I'd make everything sound super important, like if he/she didn't sleep, they wouldn't be tall and strong, and wouldn't do well in school, and rant on and on, and sometimes they fall asleep during my speech, or somethings they'd take it to heart and just listen. Works with feeding them veggies and making them clean their room, but I have to give the speech everytime.

I love kids in general, and can tolerate almost all their antics (even if I am trying to sleep or just lay down) but if I give them the look (One I learned from my mother), they all sober up and pretty much do anything I want (I think they're secretly afraid to disappoint their favourite cousin). That one took some time to get working, but it works like a charm now.

[tessa]

~hugs mari~ I feel for you, sweetie.

I rocked my son to sleep every single night for the first 18 months. He is and will be my only child and I just wanted to do it and he didn't mind a bit. Then independence hit and getting rocked to sleep became a battle. So at that point, I stopped rocking him. Then I went into developing a bedtime routine- bath, some very low key activities (read a book, work on a simple puzzle, watch a favorite DVD) and then to bed to settle on down for the night. It was just that easy.

~laughs hysterically~ Oh, I crack myself up sometimes.

It took about 3 months. I did all that stuff up there I said (the "it was easy" part was a complete fabrication, however). At first, when I started putting him in his own bed, he would scream and cry. It was awful! I'd just sit there and cry myself! And I just couldn't do it, not the way the book-writers said (the "just let 'em cry it out" theory). Don't get me wrong! Parents that decide to do it that way are doing it the way they want, and that's good for them. Didn't work for me.

So I made sure he was sleepy-sleepy, I'd put him in his bed (which is in my room) and would sit by his bed until he went to sleep. Did that for a few weeks. Then I started sitting on my bed, a few feet from his bed until he fell asleep (assuring him that mommy was "right here" the whole time). Did that for a few more weeks. Then for a few weeks, when I put him in bed, I moved out of the room to sit on the couch right outside the bedroom door. he could see me and I could see him. Again, I'd tell him that "mommy is right here". That lasted a while and at some point, he just started being okay with being in bed on his own.

We still have our nights where he wants me to hold his hand while he falls asleep. To tell you the truth, I love it when it happens. I don't encourage it, but I'll do it if he asks. It won't last long and then I'll be wishing that he'd ask to hold my hand, anytime, not just bedtime.

Some key things I do to help him:
1) I always makes sure he's sleepy enough- not too little, not too much.
2)Routine, routine, routine! Can't say that enough. And now, if I skip something, he let's me know- "Mommy, you forgot to brush my teeth." or " Mommy, I'm supposed to drink a sip of water before I get in bed."
3) I always make sure he is in the decision making process for bedtime- "ok, here's your monster pj's and your football pj's...which one you want?" and "go turn off the light for me so we can go to bed" (said in a please-will-you type way, which requires more patience than I have most nights, but I try.)
4) I leave a night-light on for him and he gets to have one stuffed animal in the bed with him. It calms him. Hey, I'm scared of the dark and I like cuddling up with something too, so I'm not saying 'no' to him doing it.

This worked for me and when I was in the middle of it all, I thought I'd pull my hair out! Not that I mind hair-pulling, but not that kind! And now, for the most part, we're good to go at nighttime.

Hope the ideas you get here help. And I think it was the perfect place to post this! Thanks for starting the conversation!

tessa

[Eponine]

Thank you everyone..

I'll let you know how things improve

On a positive not, he did make a little pee-pee in his potty yesterday for the first time!! It was sort of an accident- I had gotten him undressed for his bath and he started peeing on the floor, so I quickly moved him in front of his potty and he continued there.

But he was smiling while he was doing it, (and before when I've moved him in front of the big potty, he resisted) so I think he liked it. Then we took the little potty and dumped the pee-pee in the big potty and he flushed (which he's been doing and he likes). Yay!

(I am aware doing the potty training and getting him to bed on his own may be too much at one time with him, but the potty training is going really loosely- just letting the potty be there and if he wants to sit in it, i let him. not really pushing that issue)

Anyway... more advice always welcome

[jeanne]

Mine are older teenagers now and I think I've just blanked out all the bedtime battles

I don't have advice per se - just a word of hope. "This too shall pass." I've always found it hard to believe that difficult things won't last forever (and ever and ever and ever...) but they never do. One day, sooner than you think, this bedtime battle will be over and you'll wonder "when exactly did this end and what did I do right?" Best wishes to you and remember, small children are just as confused by their strong feelings and new power to express them as we parents are.

[Rhabbi]

mari,

let me second what annie said, the biggest problem with getting kids to accept a new routine is not backing down when tyhey make a fuss. This is their way of testing your limits. It is not easy, but set the rules and stick to them. If he sees you will not back down now this will make the next battle easier. Plus, when you do get him in his own room, you will still face the challenge, and it will be harder.

[Warbaby1943]

I was a harder ass than just_annie. I won't try to tell you how to get him to go to bed because others have already given you that advise. I'll only say that if you don't get control of the child at 27 months old it will only get worse as they get older and you'll wonder what happened to your authority. I have seen it too many times and know it happens. Thankfully, right or wrong, I raised my children like I was raised and all was and is well.

[annie]

Thanks Rhabbi and WB....

Glad to know others agree. Don't know how many times i have been called down by other parents for doing what the counselor told me to do! (Almost didn't post for the exact reason.)

That counselor also told me something that i use to this day...

"You am not here to be your child's best friend. You are here to make sure they are raised to be productive, functioning, rational, caring and most importantly loving individuals. And with that in mind... if you are not told at least once a day by your child(ren) that they dislike/hate you in some fashion or that you are mean then you are NOT doing your job as a parent and not setting the limits needed to accomplish the above."

(Had to REALLY keep that in mind as a compliment this weekend when my son wrote "i hate mom and dad" on his hand in permanent marker. Think i accomplished the goal twice that day since he actually took the time to write it out... lol.)

[Eponine]

Thank you everybody for your great input...

I struggle, because I am constantly aware of the long-term and short-term effects my behavior management of my son will have on him and on our relationship...
but sometimes i am just at a loss...

I know this will pass... i'll get us through it... it's just so hard to remember sometimes... lol

I have used and still do use "tough love" on Christopher... but again, sometimes the right thing to do eludes me...

I'll keep you posted! And thanks a million again! That sounds cheesy, but i mean it... : )