Terrorists SUCK

[Thorne]

It's bad enough when the freaking terrorists blow themselves to smithereens. At least you know that at least one shithead has gone to hell. But now they're using women, and mentally handicapped women at that, and detonating their bombs by remote. This is about as sick and disgusting as they can get. I cannot believe that ANY rational Muslims could even begin to justify this as acceptable by their religion.

There was another case, several months ago in Afghanistan, where terrorists (AlQuida or Taliban, I'm not sure which) outfitted a young boy with a "flower" vest and told him to find a group of American soldiers, then pull the ring on the vest to "release the beautiful flowers." Fortunately, the kid was smarter than the terrorists and went right to a police station, where they disarmed the bomb.

If anyone had any doubts about the justice of their cause, I think these incidents show just how vile and evil these people are. They can't find enough idiots to strap on the vests voluntarily, so they'll use any other people they can. And the worst part (or perhaps the best part, I don't know) is that they are killing off their own people, other Muslims. When are these people going to wake up and castrate these bastards?

This thing has made me physically ill, as horrified and as angry with terrorists as 9/11 did. The people who would do this, and those in African countries who do as bad or worse, are among that select group of people who I feel don't deserve a break. If you find one, KILL THE BASTARD! Don't wait for a trial, don't hope for the death penalty. Just SHOOT him.

And now, I've just read about 5 women killed in a strip mall in Chicago. By a robber, apparently. He's another one. When they find him, just kill him. Put him out of our misery.

[mkemse]

It's bad enough when the freaking terrorists blow themselves to smithereens. At least you know that at least one shithead has gone to hell. But now they're using women, and mentally handicapped women at that, and detonating their bombs by remote. This is about as sick and disgusting as they can get. I cannot believe that ANY rational Muslims could even begin to justify this as acceptable by their religion.

There was another case, several months ago in Afghanistan, where terrorists (AlQuida or Taliban, I'm not sure which) outfitted a young boy with a "flower" vest and told him to find a group of American soldiers, then pull the ring on the vest to "release the beautiful flowers." Fortunately, the kid was smarter than the terrorists and went right to a police station, where they disarmed the bomb.

If anyone had any doubts about the justice of their cause, I think these incidents show just how vile and evil these people are. They can't find enough idiots to strap on the vests voluntarily, so they'll use any other people they can. And the worst part (or perhaps the best part, I don't know) is that they are killing off their own people, other Muslims. When are these people going to wake up and castrate these bastards?

This thing has made me physically ill, as horrified and as angry with terrorists as 9/11 did. The people who would do this, and those in African countries who do as bad or worse, are among that select group of people who I feel don't deserve a break. If you find one, KILL THE BASTARD! Don't wait for a trial, don't hope for the death penalty. Just SHOOT him.

And now, I've just read about 5 women killed in a strip mall in Chicago. By a robber, apparently. He's another one. When they find him, just kill him. Put him out of our misery.

Interesting you say that, they ahd a TV interview last night with our Defense Secretary Gates, who said the woman who are now doingthis are being recruited because they have no idea what they are doing or the end rsult, so they are using less then innocent people, but as Gate also saud "This shows that the Terrorrsit Organkzations arerunnig out of suicidal bombers and so they are using and recurting ANYONE they can recruit"

[Thorne]

but as Gate also saud "This shows that the Terrorrsit Organkzations arerunnig out of suicidal bombers and so they are using and recurting ANYONE they can recruit"

Yeah, that's the nice part about suicide bombers: if you can use them at a young enough age they become true Darwin Award winners - they kill themselves off before they can multiply.

But I wouldn't term this particular kind of behavior as "recruiting." They are using people who are incapable of understanding what they are doing, either tricking them into wearing the vests of just forcing them. Either way, I cannot believe that even Islam would sanction this kind of act. Hopefully Muslims around the world will step back and take a long, hard look at what these monsters are doing, not just to we infidels but to their own people! And then, perhaps, they will step on them.

[mkemse]

Yeah, that's the nice part about suicide bombers: if you can use them at a young enough age they become true Darwin Award winners - they kill themselves off before they can multiply.

But I wouldn't term this particular kind of behavior as "recruiting." They are using people who are incapable of understanding what they are doing, either tricking them into wearing the vests of just forcing them. Either way, I cannot believe that even Islam would sanction this kind of act. Hopefully Muslims around the world will step back and take a long, hard look at what these monsters are doing, not just to we infidels but to their own people! And then, perhaps, they will step on them.

I agree with you 100%

[Whippett]

Either way, I cannot believe that even Islam would sanction this kind of act. Hopefully Muslims around the world will step back and take a long, hard look at what these monsters are doing, not just to we infidels but to their own people! And then, perhaps, they will step on them.

Personally, Thorne, I don't think it has anything to do with religion and everything to do with a sick political ideology - the IRA/Ulstermen of a few years back, the "ethnic cleansings" - all part of the same sick ideology. They just call it "religion" to suck in a few gullible fools. The sooner rational people everywhere take out that sort of person, wherever it shows up, the better off we'll all be.

[ThisYouWillDo]

I agree with you 80% on the terrorist topic, Thorne. But I think Al Qaeida represents Islam as much as the IRA represented Roman Catholicism in Northern Ireland 30 years ago: not at all, but they tried to give the impression they did.

I also disagree with your views on summary execution: down that road there is a lynch mob.

I also heard about the Chicago murders: horrifying. I do hope they catch the bastard. They must, of course, give him a fair trial, just to make sure they got the right man, and that he didn't have a valid reason for what he did ... like self-defence.

Assuming they get the right man, and he wasn't defending himself from an attack on his own life, I wouldn't be sorry if they locked him up and threw away the key.

TYWD

[Thorne]

I agree with you 80% on the terrorist topic, Thorne. But I think Al Qaeida represents Islam as much as the IRA represented Roman Catholicism in Northern Ireland 30 years ago: not at all, but they tried to give the impression they did.

I also disagree with your views on summary execution: down that road there is a lynch mob.

I also heard about the Chicago murders: horrifying. I do hope they catch the bastard. They must, of course, give him a fair trial, just to make sure they got the right man, and that he didn't have a valid reason for what he did ... like self-defence.

Assuming they get the right man, and he wasn't defending himself from an attack on his own life, I wouldn't be sorry if they locked him up and threw away the key.

TYWD

LOL! I know we don't agree on gun control and apparently on the death penalty, but come on! Defending himself? From five rabid sales shoppers in that Lane Bryant store, no doubt! Those white sales can be murder!

I do agree with your lynch mob concerns, however. If he'd been caught in the act, I probably wouldn't have a problem with someone taking him out right on the spot. But now, I agree with you, they have to go through all the expense and uncertainty of a trial, and they must absolutely make certain they have the right person. But I still contend that someone like this, who would kill five innocent people just because he wanted someone else's money, deserves nothing less than the death penalty. Not meaning to sound cruel or insensitive, I only hope that when they DO try him there isn't someone who thinks like you on the jury.

[ThisYouWillDo]

At the time I posted, I didn't know it was a robbery: I didn't know what the reason for the killings was at all. In fact, because five people had been shot, I had supposed the man was on a killing spree due to some mental breakdown.

Yes, I am strongly opposed to the death penalty, even for gun carriers, but only a fool is completely inflexible in his views and opinions, and there are some occasions where the death penalty is the only appropriate remedy: most of the leaders of the Third Reich, for example. In this instance, I would be reluctant to execute the killer upon conviction, but I don't suppose I would be motivated at all to defend him from such a fate, either.

The point of giving a man a fair trial, even to known criminals, is to prevent abuse of process and to demonstrate publicly that justice has been done. Everyone has the right of a fair trial under the American Constitution, and you can't take that away from a man simply because what he is accused of is particularly distasteful to you. And the point of a jury is to get someone who thinks like me, and someone who thinks like you on the same panel.

Perhaps you can draw comfort from the fact that I am not eligible to serve on your juries.

TYWD

[Thorne]

The point of giving a man a fair trial, even to known criminals, is to prevent abuse of process and to demonstrate publicly that justice has been done. Everyone has the right of a fair trial under the American Constitution, and you can't take that away from a man simply because what he is accused of is particularly distasteful to you. And the point of a jury is to get someone who thinks like me, and someone who thinks like you on the same panel.

LOL! I think if you and I were on the same jury it would be one hell of a long deliberation, and probably end in a hung jury (if the other jurors didn't "hang" us first!)

As for the fair trial, yes, I agree. Since he was not caught at the scene, with the "smoking gun" the state must give him a fair trial, gathering evidence, the whole shootin' match. But if someone in that store had killed the man in the commission of the crime I would consider that person to be a hero, not a murderer.

[TomOfSweden]

This discussion again.

How about freedom fighters?

What if they actually will go to heaven and bang 72 hot chicks after blowing themselves up?

This is a very complex set of issues and is not black and white. Hating the terrorists are even supporting the "War on Terror" is not fixing the problem. Probably just making things worse. The terrorists are the symptom, not the root of the problem. Removing them them won't change a thing.

Hanna Arendt's book with the subtital, The banality of evil, is a good read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_banality_of_evil

But I'm with you on the emotional reaction. I remember when the twin towers were struck. I couldn't breath. I was home that day and had a TV on in the back-ground. Those pictures on repeat are burned into my retina. A friends wife worked in the tower...but she was luckily not there at the moment. It destroyed their relationship, which for him was just as bad. He lost her.

[ThisYouWillDo]

If you no longer have a corporeal body, how to you get a hard-on?

TYWD

[TomOfSweden]

If you no longer have a corporeal body, how to you get a hard-on?

TYWD

I think you may have uncovered the weakness in the Muslim terrorists plan. It'll be like going to a strip bar, but with the difference that you know you'll never get laid, or even go home and rub one out. That isn't heaven, that's hell!!!

BTW, the 72 virgin thing is just a misunderstanding. It doesn't actually say in the Koran. But then again, if they would bother with reading and understanding stuff, they'd hardly be religious to begin with, so I guess it's not an issue.

[ThisYouWillDo]

There'd be 10 other men "good and true" to bang our heads together until we saw sense. Besides, we have majority verdicts here; don't you?

I want to move this away from the Chicago killings, because we're debating general principles now. I agree that someone who killed an armed robber in commision of the crime would appear to be a hero - but even he should face some form of inquisition or trial to ensure that it really was an armed robbery and that he wasn't either an accomplice masquerading as an innocent party, or the person who initiated a fire-fight in which everyone else got killed.

TYWD

[Thorne]

There'd be 10 other men "good and true" to bang our heads together until we saw sense. Besides, we have majority verdicts here; don't you?

No, a unanimous verdict is required.

I want to move this away from the Chicago killings, because we're debating general principles now. I agree that someone who killed an armed robber in commision of the crime would appear to be a hero - but even he should face some form of inquisition or trial to ensure that it really was an armed robbery and that he wasn't either an accomplice masquerading as an innocent party, or the person who initiated a fire-fight in which everyone else got killed.

There would definitely be an inquiry, especially if there were no other surviving witnesses, though in this day and age, with the prevalence of CCTV cameras, it's hard to imagine there being no witnesses left at all.

[Silus]

To be honest, it is "recruiting". I am currently in Baghdad and get to see alot of the intel reports that come out and never make the news. People from mostly northern Africa are coming in swarms to sign up. Most are not looking for a long term fight but instead feel its their "calling" to become what they believe as being a "marter". The last news I saw was our wonderful News agency's reporting 10 Civilian's being killed by us. Yes that was a major fuck up, but what they didnt report was a few of them were killed in a crossfire. Special Ops had chased 7 men into a house. Good news all 7 of them are dead, bad news is 2 civ's got in the middle.

If you care to hear whats really going on just let me know. Whats happening and what you see on the news are two completely different things.

[Thorne]

Whats happening and what you see on the news are two completely different things.

I have found this to be all too true all too much of the time.

Stay safe, Silus, and good luck.

[mkemse]

To be honest, it is "recruiting". I am currently in Baghdad and get to see alot of the intel reports that come out and never make the news. People from mostly northern Africa are coming in swarms to sign up. Most are not looking for a long term fight but instead feel its their "calling" to become what they believe as being a "marter". The last news I saw was our wonderful News agency's reporting 10 Civilian's being killed by us. Yes that was a major fuck up, but what they didnt report was a few of them were killed in a crossfire. Special Ops had chased 7 men into a house. Good news all 7 of them are dead, bad news is 2 civ's got in the middle.

If you care to hear whats really going on just let me know. Whats happening and what you see on the news are two completely different things.

I heard on the Radio Last Ngiht that the US Inteligence Agency obtained a Terroorist TRainig Tape and theysaid itshows kidsa young as 8-10 years old beingtrained to kidnap, car bomd and suicde bomd that thetape actualy showed what they said was a 10-12 years old wearing a vest with explosive attached to it, my question, is thisfor real or just news the goernement was us to hear in the United States to emphasize the real threat of Terrorists,
I do not believe most of what Bush says, he has never ne honest and stragiht forward in MY opnion with the American Pepole and wanted to know if this video was for real or just a "ploy" but the current Adm. to keep support for his war going??

And yes I support the Troops, I never supported the War itself

[bind_me_obey_me]

I heard on the Radio Last Ngiht that the US Inteligence Agency obtained a Terroorist TRainig Tape and theysaid itshows kidsa young as 8-10 years old beingtrained to kidnap, car bomd and suicde bomd that thetape actualy showed what they said was a 10-12 years old wearing a vest with explosive attached to it, my question, is thisfor real or just news the goernement was us to hear in the United States to emphasize the real threat of Terrorists,
I do not believe most of what Bush says, he has never ne honest and stragiht forward in MY opnion with the American Pepole and wanted to know if this video was for real or just a "ploy" but the current Adm. to keep support for his war going??

And yes I support the Troops, I never supported the War itself

I'm a UK girl so i'm not able to talk about US policy etc, but what does upset me is the use of those unable to make decisions by themselves about whether they wish to become involved in anything - just absolutely used, absued and ultimately killed for it. Children have been used for centuries, as mercenaries in Africa, recruited and brainwashed still, including places like Sierra Leone etc.

As regards to the death penalty, we don't have it here, and whilst I don't agree with it period (but respect that others do), I do think it would be too easy a way out for people who commit such awful crimes of murder and manipulation, take them out and beat the hell out of them yes, but let them die quickly and painlessly......no.

(I will say I am new to the boards and anything i've just said above isn't meant to ruffle feathers at all, I hope i've been respectful)

[mkemse]

I'm a UK girl so i'm not able to talk about US policy etc, but what does upset me is the use of those unable to make decisions by themselves about whether they wish to become involved in anything - just absolutely used, absued and ultimately killed for it. Children have been used for centuries, as mercenaries in Africa, recruited and brainwashed still, including places like Sierra Leone etc.

As regards to the death penalty, we don't have it here, and whilst I don't agree with it period (but respect that others do), I do think it would be too easy a way out for people who commit such awful crimes of murder and manipulation, take them out and beat the hell out of them yes, but let them die quickly and painlessly......no.

(I will say I am new to the boards and anything i've just said above isn't meant to ruffle feathers at all, I hope i've been respectful)

I have mixed emotions on the Deaht Penalty, but I do stronlgy believe in 1 case it should be used or considered, that that applies ot anyone whol mollests a child or is arrested and convicted of molesting or murdering a child or involved in child porn, these kind of people get not 1 oz of sympathy from me

[ThisYouWillDo]

I don't think anyone should advocate the use of the death penalty until they've tried it themselves.

(That's just to upset Thorne, btw.)

[mkemse]

I don't think anyone should advocate the use of the death penalty until they've tried it themselves.

(That's just to upset Thorne, btw.)

ok so if your daughter is raped, molested murder you woul not want the person who did that to face the death penalty if convicted, i am talk only about crimes against children here

[ThisYouWillDo]

ok so if your daughter is raped, molested murder you woul not want the person who did that to face the death penalty if convicted, i am talk only about crimes against children here

mkemse: I put that message up just to yank Thorne's chain a bit. Tongue in cheek.

But since you ask, I would not expect a rapist to be murdered by the state for that crime: in fact, I do not expect the state to execute a murderer, even a mass murderer or a child killer. It does no good. It doesn't undo the killing, it doesn't permit the killer to recant his crime or to make amends, and it doesn't deter others from killing. Sometimes it creates martyrs. And sometimes an innocent man is executed.

It doesn't even make anyone feel any better.

TYWD

(I would add that, although I am opposed to capital punishment, sometimes I find I have no sympathy for people who are executed for particularly heinous crimes. But I still cannot justify it.)

[mkemse]

mkemse: I put that message up just to yank Thorne's chain a bit. Tongue in cheek.

But since you ask, I would not expect a rapist to be murdered by the state for that crime: in fact, I do not expect the state to execute a murderer, even a mass murderer or a child killer. It does no good. It doesn't undo the killing, it doesn't permit the killer to recant his crime or to make amends, and it doesn't deter others from killing. Sometimes it creates martyrs. And sometimes an innocent man is executed.

It doesn't even make anyone feel any better.

TYWD

(I would add that, although I am opposed to capital punishment, sometimes I find I have no sympathy for people who are executed for particularly heinous crimes. But I still cannot justify it.)

My apologies i did not realize your orignal post was meant as a toughe and cheek reply

have a good night in eithereevent,ahh, this is the nice viture of freedom of expression, we may not agree on things but we can at leasr express what we felland not worry about being areested for it, tha i think we both agree on, assuming you are in the Unites States anyway

[Thorne]

I don't think anyone should advocate the use of the death penalty until they've tried it themselves.

(That's just to upset Thorne, btw.)

I have tried it! Solved ALMOST all of my problems.

[ThisYouWillDo]

I have tried it! Solved ALMOST all of my problems.

Just me now, huh?

[Thorne]

Just me now, huh?

Nah, you're not a problem, just a minor irritant. But it really feels good when I scratch!

[V.W. Singer]

The fact that everyone is so worked up about Terrorism shows that it is in fact quite effective as a tactic. I don't see it as being any more despicable than asking 10,000 young men to charge through a field of barbed wire into the muzzles of machine guns and artillery, nor more immoral than killing 30 or 40 women and children with a cruise missle on the off chance of killing an enemy commander.

Terror has always been a part of waging war. Cities under siege all the way up to the Napoleonic wars were usually given the option of surrendering and receiving relatively good treatment or fighting and being slaughtered to the last dog and cat if they beseigers were force to storm the walls. Another common way to break a siege was to go around killing everyone in the surrounding countryside until the forces in the city could not stand watching it any longer and came out to fight.

Terror tactics are the only available weapon of the weak. Religion has little to do with it except as a recruiting tool and a way of maintaining moral and unity. The Romans considered decimation (killing one person in ten) as a legitimate method of subduing the unruly. Robin Hood was a terrorist, but he is looked upon as a hero because his side won. The British considered the American freedom fighters in the War of Independence to be terrorists who were using force to overthrow a legitimate government. If the British had won, many of them would have been hung for being enemy combatants.

This is not to say that the cause of the current lot of terrorists is just, although given the number of people willing to support them, their objectives, if not their idiology must have widespread appeal. I am only saying that their strategy and tactics are the same ones that people without access to a powerful army usually resort to when they decide to fight. Modern technology has given them the force multipliers that make them more effective than in the past and modern mass media has raised their profile, but little else has changed.

As for the 72 virgins thing, I doubt that most of the people doing the actual fighting are as blindly religious as the western press would like us to believe. They are a mixture of the desperate and the angry. Just like always. Terrorism is a tactic, not a way of life.

[mkemse]

I firmly believe that the Islamic Terrorsits who are trainingthose as young as10 and using innocnet women to suicide bomb aredoing so fora number of reason, they give the families of these kids lots of money which over there is like gold, and they use children because they are slowly runnig out of adults who want to do this, kids donot understand, but when you strave everyday and someone offer you a large sum of money in those parts of theworld, be it right or wrong, it would probably be very hard to turn down, the children have no lcue what they are doing to young to understand, women bombers is perfectfor Terroristds, who wouls susect a young Islamic femalesay 18-25 was wearing a bomb under their clothes, my instinct sa few if any

[ThisYouWillDo]

UK, old boy!

And as for freedom of expression, it rocks!!!

^5

[mkemse]

UK, old boy!

And as for freedom of expression, it rocks!!!

^5

I know that is why i said we may disagree but we can do it publicy without fear of ending up in Jail