Subsidized everything

[tedteague]

The EU recently announced it will begin subsidizing vacations. What's next?

[tedteague]

Car insurance?

[steelish]

Why stop at anything like that?

What makes you "happy"?
Is it large screen tvs?
Subsidize!
Is it motorhomes with slide-outs so you can travel the country in style?
Subsidize!
Is it hot rod cars?
Subsidize!
Is it a 3,000 sq ft home?
Subsidize!

What the hell is this country coming to?

[DuncanONeil]

You forgot my Electra Glide!!

Why stop at anything like that?

What makes you "happy"?
Is it large screen tvs?
Subsidize!
Is it motorhomes with slide-outs so you can travel the country in style?
Subsidize!
Is it hot rod cars?
Subsidize!
Is it a 3,000 sq ft home?
Subsidize!

What the hell is this country coming to?

[grinner666]

Why stop at anything like that?

What makes you "happy"?
Is it large screen tvs?
Subsidize!
Is it motorhomes with slide-outs so you can travel the country in style?
Subsidize!
Is it hot rod cars?
Subsidize!
Is it a 3,000 sq ft home?
Subsidize!

What the hell is this country coming to?

Since your profile doesn't really specify I must ASSUME that when you say your location is "The Southeast" you mean the southeastern US and NOT Southeast Asia . . . but I'll go with that assumption and simply ask what in the world you think a rumor about subsidies in the EU has to do with "this country"???

[steelish]

Since your profile doesn't really specify I must ASSUME that when you say your location is "The Southeast" you mean the southeastern US and NOT Southeast Asia . . . but I'll go with that assumption and simply ask what in the world you think a rumor about subsidies in the EU has to do with "this country"???

My brain was thinking "world". My fingers typed "country"

So sorry. (I never even noticed until you pointed it out)

[DuncanONeil]

Because the current power structure in the US thinks we should be more like Europe!

Since your profile doesn't really specify I must ASSUME that when you say your location is "The Southeast" you mean the southeastern US and NOT Southeast Asia . . . but I'll go with that assumption and simply ask what in the world you think a rumor about subsidies in the EU has to do with "this country"???

[grinner666]

Because the current power structure in the US thinks we should be more like Europe!

*yawns*

"More like Europe" is a null term. Europe consists of over two dozen countries, all of which have different governments, laws and ways of doing business.

But if what you mean is that every worker gets SIX WEEKS OF PAID VACATION, with the accompanying loss of stress and early heart attacks and strokes that involves, then SIGN ME UP FOR THE FUCKING EUROPEAN UNION!!!

EVERY European nation has higher taxes than the US, but then nearly every nation on earth has higher taxes than the US. But what's REALLY interesting is that nearly every other nation in the world has a lower incidence of heart attacks than the United States.

Frankly, if it comes to a choice between paying half (or even more) of my wages in taxes and getting six weeks of vacation every year, with government paid healthcare and retirement that beats the FUCK out of social security, or lower taxes, I'll gladly pay the higher taxes. You CAN NOT place a price on health and peace of mind.

And for those of you who don't want to pay those horrible taxes for your "economic freedom," please remember that even in the Land of the (not so economically) Free, you STILL did nothing but work for taxes this year until April 9, you got no vacation until you'd been working at least a year, very likely got no or very little health insurance, and probably still believe in the tooth fairy.

Here's the thing: if you believe your government is going to protect you without cost, you're living in a fantasy world. If you understand that government protection costs but STILL don't want to pay for those costs, then you're one of the deluded millions who believes, despite all evidence to the contrary, that you're going to be a millionaire someday and you've got to protect yourself against that vague and highly unlikely possibility.

Get over it. You're NOT going to be a millionaire someday. And if, by some miracle, you are, you'll be able to afford the taxes on your millions without feeling the pinch that the poor fucker working for minimum wage feels every week. The Rethuglicans rely on your belief that you'll someday be where they are, even though you never will.

[DuncanONeil]

*yawns*

"More like Europe" is a null term. Europe consists of over two dozen countries, all of which have different governments, laws and ways of doing business.

And your point is what? virtually all of them are operating from the same play book. Its not working and yet that is what some people wish to see as the manner of conducting the nation here.

But if what you mean is that every worker gets SIX WEEKS OF PAID VACATION, with the accompanying loss of stress and early heart attacks and strokes that involves, then SIGN ME UP FOR THE FUCKING EUROPEAN UNION!!!

If such a system is so desirable you can easily sign yourself up for that system. All it would take would be a little train or boat trip. One way of course!

EVERY European nation has higher taxes than the US, but then nearly every nation on earth has higher taxes than the US. But what's REALLY interesting is that nearly every other nation in the world has a lower incidence of heart attacks than the United States.

High taxes are not a measure of a successful country. As far as the heart attack rates I have heard that said myself. But what do we find in the data? The WHO has a report, which I suspect you will dismiss since it is not by country, that does not provide such a clear cut position. It does divide the world by major groupings; Africa, The Americas, South-East Asia, Europe, Eastern Med, and Western Pacific. Now I know the first complaint will be lumping the Americas together but even then the rates in the WHO report are within less than 5 points of other reports of US specific data. That being said the highest rate of cardiovascular deaths is in Europe at .56% or 561 per 100,000. for the other regions the numbers are as follows;

• Africa - 154
• The Americas - 226
• SE Asia - 453
• Eastern Med - 214
• Western Pacific - 222

It seems that two regions of the world beat us in this unenviable statistic and two others are nearly the same.

Frankly, if it comes to a choice between paying half (or even more) of my wages in taxes and getting six weeks of vacation every year, with government paid healthcare and retirement that beats the FUCK out of social security, or lower taxes, I'll gladly pay the higher taxes. You CAN NOT place a price on health and peace of mind.

"You CAN NOT place a price on health and peace of mind. " But that is exactly what you are doing when you let the Government make those decisions for you. Whether you like their decisions or not you have no choice once you surrender. That same peace of mind you seek can come from your own choices in insurance, savings, or investments.

And for those of you who don't want to pay those horrible taxes for your "economic freedom," please remember that even in the Land of the (not so economically) Free, you STILL did nothing but work for taxes this year until April 9, you got no vacation until you'd been working at least a year, very likely got no or very little health insurance, and probably still believe in the tooth fairy.

The last bit there was uncalled for and a bit demeaning! Consider what you have expressed a willingness to do just a little bit above this paragraph. Work for the Government until at least June 30 instead of working to find a way to get more of the money that you work for into your own pocket rather than somebody elses' pocket. There is such a plan that I favor and would like to see as it does a great deal for the economy, without Government intervention.

Here's the thing: if you believe your government is going to protect you without cost, you're living in a fantasy world. If you understand that government protection costs but STILL don't want to pay for those costs, then you're one of the deluded millions who believes, despite all evidence to the contrary, that you're going to be a millionaire someday and you've got to protect yourself against that vague and highly unlikely possibility.

The true question is not "protection" but "protection from what"! Do you believe it is the Governments job to protect you from yourself? That is much of what people are asking for and virtually all that the Government is offering. While at the same time letting sit fallow the very things that the Government is actually directed to do.
I do not need the Government to establish for me how many miles I must get to a gallon of gas. Nor how much salt I can consume, how many eggs, how much bacon, how many time I can go to McDonalds, how much exercise I must accomplish, or how. Yes Government protection costs! But more often that not the Government seeks to lower the funds spent on defense, be it the Military or INS & ICE.
To say that "to be a millionaire someday" is a "vague and highly unlikely possibility" is to deny that the USA is the Land of Opportunity!

Get over it. You're NOT going to be a millionaire someday. And if, by some miracle, you are, you'll be able to afford the taxes on your millions without feeling the pinch that the poor fucker working for minimum wage feels every week. The Rethuglicans rely on your belief that you'll someday be where they are, even though you never will.

You honestly believe, and can say with a straight face, that somehow a tax rate of 2.99% on $15,000 hurts more than a tax rate of 21.46% on $1,040,000. I don't think so! In the former that is my mortgage payment in the latter it is two cars or a really nice Harley! Or look at it another way the 2.99% is 13 meals out I'd have to pass on. Even at the most expensive meal I bought my wife and I the latter would be 171 outings. By any practical measure the claim is not supported that our current tax structure hurts the lesser in favor of the greater.

[tedteague]

*yawns*

"More like Europe" is a null term. Europe consists of over two dozen countries, all of which have different governments, laws and ways of doing business.

But if what you mean is that every worker gets SIX WEEKS OF PAID VACATION, with the accompanying loss of stress and early heart attacks and strokes that involves, then SIGN ME UP FOR THE FUCKING EUROPEAN UNION!!!

EVERY European nation has higher taxes than the US, but then nearly every nation on earth has higher taxes than the US. But what's REALLY interesting is that nearly every other nation in the world has a lower incidence of heart attacks than the United States.

Frankly, if it comes to a choice between paying half (or even more) of my wages in taxes and getting six weeks of vacation every year, with government paid healthcare and retirement that beats the FUCK out of social security, or lower taxes, I'll gladly pay the higher taxes. You CAN NOT place a price on health and peace of mind.

And for those of you who don't want to pay those horrible taxes for your "economic freedom," please remember that even in the Land of the (not so economically) Free, you STILL did nothing but work for taxes this year until April 9, you got no vacation until you'd been working at least a year, very likely got no or very little health insurance, and probably still believe in the tooth fairy.

Here's the thing: if you believe your government is going to protect you without cost, you're living in a fantasy world. If you understand that government protection costs but STILL don't want to pay for those costs, then you're one of the deluded millions who believes, despite all evidence to the contrary, that you're going to be a millionaire someday and you've got to protect yourself against that vague and highly unlikely possibility.

Get over it. You're NOT going to be a millionaire someday. And if, by some miracle, you are, you'll be able to afford the taxes on your millions without feeling the pinch that the poor fucker working for minimum wage feels every week. The Rethuglicans rely on your belief that you'll someday be where they are, even though you never will.

false, europe is not a collection of different countries all with their own way of doing things. it is a UNION. and while local governments may be elected on their own, western europe is much more like the US, the nation is europe, the state/province/territories are italy, france, ect al

[Cathryn Blackthorne]

Because the current power structure in the US thinks we should be more like Europe!

Well, some of us living in the US agree. Not everyone buys into the propaganda of slogans like: "America is the greatest country in the world," and believe it's possible things here could do with change/improvement.

[steelish]

Well, some of us living in the US agree. Not everyone buys into the propaganda of slogans like: "America is the greatest country in the world," and believe it's possible things here could do with change/improvement.

See, this is what I've never understood. America is unique among countries. Why should it change? To use your exact words; "There are some of us living in the US" who want it to be as the Founding Fathers intended. Why can't it be that and those who don't like it can move? After all, there are plenty of other nations to choose from.

For example, if you specifically want a Ford Expedition, you go buy a Ford Expedition...you don't buy a Ford F250, put a topper on it and pretend it's a Ford Expedition.

[DuncanONeil]

Well, some of us living in the US agree. Not everyone buys into the propaganda of slogans like: "America is the greatest country in the world," and believe it's possible things here could do with change/improvement.

It may seem like a trite question, and it is a question. But if you do not think America is the greatest country in the world why not live in one you think is the greatest?

Change and improvement can always occur. And that is usually a good thing. But change is not always an improvement. The desire to change to be more like European countries when the very policies that are desired to be co-opted have brought said countries to near failure. Why would you want to go the route of failure??

[denuseri]

Vibrators? lol

[tedteague]

hookers!!??

[denuseri]

Trips to lesbian themed bondage strip clubs?

[tedteague]

how about just bondage lesbian submissives?

[DuncanONeil]

how about just bondage lesbian submissives?

Hey no discrimination here! Submissive for everyone!

[fetishdj]

I'd vote for that (and bondage Dominants as well )

[steelish]

If EVERYTHING is going to be subsidized, how about a nice, modest home with a built-in secret dungeon? That sounds lovely.

[DuncanONeil]

If EVERYTHING is going to be subsidized, how about a nice, modest home with a built-in secret dungeon? That sounds lovely.

Can I come over and play?

[Lion]

I can go for that ^

[lucy]

The EU recently announced it will begin subsidizing vacations. What's next?

The EU has done that for a long time already by pumping loads of money for touristic infrastructure projects into Greece, Spain, Portugal, Southern Italy asf aso...

[fetishdj]

Good god, you don't want to be in Europe... Anyway, I thought Europe was trying desperately to turn itself into 'the United states of Europe'.

You could always rejoin the UK. I am sure we'll have you back. We'll even let you keep your president as some form of official colonial governer

Seriously, I think the US constitution and the 'ideals of the founding fathers' are as open to interpretation as many religious texts. I have seen many use them as defence for actions which I am sure are against the ideals as I understand them. This is part of the problem. Everyone in America follows THE American dream and THE ideals of the founding fathers but actually they are only following THEIR versions of that which disagree with all the other interpretations.

One thing I feel needs to be asked... as a hypothetical exercise, if the American constitution were to be rewritten today - completely and entirely from scratch, using the modern political and international set up as it is - how much of it would be different? Which amendments would still be in place, which would be changed and which would be removed altogether as entirely pointless. I ask because I read something about the Magna Carta recently (about the closest we have to a written constitution...) which stated that pretty much all of it is now obsolete.

[Thorne]

You could always rejoin the UK. I am sure we'll have you back. We'll even let you keep your president as some form of official colonial governer

ANOTHER Brit wanting the colonies back! Get over it guys. We're here to stay.

Seriously, I think the US constitution and the 'ideals of the founding fathers' are as open to interpretation as many religious texts. I have seen many use them as defence for actions which I am sure are against the ideals as I understand them. This is part of the problem.

Yes, it is a problem, and many have perverted the spirit of the Constitution while paying lip-service to its words. That's why interpretation of the Constitution lies in the hands of the Supreme Court. Theoretically at least, there should be enough intelligence among those 9 paragons of the law to keep us at least close to both the spirit and the letter of the Constitution.

One thing I feel needs to be asked... as a hypothetical exercise, if the American constitution were to be rewritten today - completely and entirely from scratch, using the modern political and international set up as it is - how much of it would be different?

Sadly, if there were a need to rewrite the Constitution I fear it would never get done. There are damned few politicians in this country with the brains or the guts to set aside their own petty desires for the good of the country. It would split the country into half-a-dozen feuding nation-states, turning us into the equivalent of 19th century Europe, with 21st century weapons. It would be the end of the United States of America.

[fetishdj]

ANOTHER Brit wanting the colonies back! Get over it guys. We're here to stay.

You can stay where you wish... all that would change is who you pay your taxes to

Yes, it is a problem, and many have perverted the spirit of the Constitution while paying lip-service to its words. That's why interpretation of the Constitution lies in the hands of the Supreme Court. Theoretically at least, there should be enough intelligence among those 9 paragons of the law to keep us at least close to both the spirit and the letter of the Constitution.

Yes, the supreme court should keep things in balance.

Of course this is something we can blame the Irish for, you know... they had a legal system based on lawyers long before any other culture in Europe

Sadly, if there were a need to rewrite the Constitution I fear it would never get done. There are damned few politicians in this country with the brains or the guts to set aside their own petty desires for the good of the country. It would split the country into half-a-dozen feuding nation-states, turning us into the equivalent of 19th century Europe, with 21st century weapons. It would be the end of the United States of America.

So, are you arguing that you need an external threat (i.e an oppresive monarchy) to force the politicians to work together sufficiently to acheive something like the American constitution (which was an amazing achievement for its time)?

I do wonder sometimes if the various member states of the US remember that it was not all that long ago (late 19th century for many) when they were still independent 'countries' rather than part of the union. I know it is common for outsiders to think that 'the USA' is one country rather than a federal organisation of seperate states (with thier own laws) but is this attitude common in the US as well?

[Thorne]

So, are you arguing that you need an external threat (i.e an oppresive monarchy) to force the politicians to work together sufficiently to acheive something like the American constitution (which was an amazing achievement for its time)?

No, what I'm saying is that I doubt modern politicians, or businessmen as most of our founders were, could establish any kind of legal system which even theoretically made them no better than the average man on the street in the eyes of the law. The Constitution was indeed an amazing achievement, one which I don't think modern men could even approach.

I do wonder sometimes if the various member states of the US remember that it was not all that long ago (late 19th century for many) when they were still independent 'countries' rather than part of the union. I know it is common for outsiders to think that 'the USA' is one country rather than a federal organisation of seperate states (with thier own laws) but is this attitude common in the US as well?

While this is theoretically, and even constitutionally, true, in reality the federal government has usurped many of the states' rights over the years, generally for seemingly good reasons, at least at the time. For the most part this has been a good thing, making us a more united country and far more powerful in world politics. Which allowed the US to pull British butts from the fires of two German wars, after all.

[fetishdj]

While this is theoretically, and even constitutionally, true, in reality the federal government has usurped many of the states' rights over the years, generally for seemingly good reasons, at least at the time. For the most part this has been a good thing, making us a more united country and far more powerful in world politics. Which allowed the US to pull British butts from the fires of two German wars, after all.

Eventually...

I think the period was one of idealism in politics. The American revolution, the French revolution, the Jacobin uprisings in the UK (Tolpuddle, Peterloo), even the start of communism (I think I remember Marx writing his famously misunderstood book about this time...). I think everyone seemed to have just got bored of monarchy all at the same time I agree that I don't think you will get the same idealism now.

I think Europe's problems at the moment is that they are not states as the American states are/were but countries that are far more different and older and stubborn. Most of whom have ruled over most of the others at some point or other. The UKs alliance with France, for example, is very recent and we have been at war with them far longer than we have ever been at peace. So we'll never get that unity, at least not for a long while.

[DuncanONeil]

Rewritten? Today? With Progressives in charge that is easy. The document would 180 degrees off from its current policies. Rights would accrue to the Government and the citizenry would be restricted!

Good god, you don't want to be in Europe... Anyway, I thought Europe was trying desperately to turn itself into 'the United states of Europe'.

You could always rejoin the UK. I am sure we'll have you back. We'll even let you keep your president as some form of official colonial governer

Seriously, I think the US constitution and the 'ideals of the founding fathers' are as open to interpretation as many religious texts. I have seen many use them as defence for actions which I am sure are against the ideals as I understand them. This is part of the problem. Everyone in America follows THE American dream and THE ideals of the founding fathers but actually they are only following THEIR versions of that which disagree with all the other interpretations.

One thing I feel needs to be asked... as a hypothetical exercise, if the American constitution were to be rewritten today - completely and entirely from scratch, using the modern political and international set up as it is - how much of it would be different? Which amendments would still be in place, which would be changed and which would be removed altogether as entirely pointless. I ask because I read something about the Magna Carta recently (about the closest we have to a written constitution...) which stated that pretty much all of it is now obsolete.