Wimps?

[Alex Bragi]

How many of your men out there crave to submit, sexually, to a strong woman? And, how many others have this ridiculous notion that these men are some kind of breed of gamma males – wimps?

A man has to be very self-assured and confident of his own masculinity to submit to a physically weaker woman. Whether you're a male, or female, submissive it takes a hell of a load of strength to surrender, and a lot of courage to trust your fate to someone else.

I’d particularly like to see some of those macho males, who mock submissive men, allow a woman to take control, tie them down and whip them. Hey, all you himbos, how about it? No? No, takers? Do I hear hairy knees a knocking already? What’s the matter? Don’t you have the intestinal fortitude for it? Does the idea of it make you feel threatened? Let’s face it, maybe you just don’t have the balls for it?

But, seriously, why do these submissive men do it? Why do they crave this feminine domination. What’s in it for them? I mean, we are talking about the male species here, aren’t we?

Men who are sexually submissive, and I must emphasise that – sexually submissive, generally tend to have a lot of power and responsibility in their lives. They’re usually above average in education, intelligence, and income, holding high powered positions requiring them to make a lot of decisions, about a lot of things, a lot of the time.

Psychologists theorise that individuals who reject their own sexual needs, because of feeling of guilt that they’re out of the ‘norm’, often suffer greatly reduced self esteem, resulting in repression, depression, and oppression -- not so for the sexually submissive male.

It would seem that many of them find a certain freedom in allowing themselves to be enslaved to woman. Sure, it sounds like a complete and utter contradiction, doesn’t it? How can it be that they can find liberation in this kind of commitment? Well they do. During their time of submission they are free of decision making and responsibilities and in giving over control they are better able to serve the needs of the woman.

But, still, why do they do it? What enjoyment do they derive from this feeling of helplessness, and often humiliation?

Is it because of some an early childhood experience? E.g. All those times when his little penis rubbed on mummy’s stocking tops as she put him over her lap and spanked him? Perhaps it takes him back to when life was his life was uncomplicated and his pleasures simple. I imagine many men would like to return to that time in their lives, if only occasionally.

According to Freud women are naturally more masochistic than men. He argued that because of the risk of pregnancy, sex is more dangerous and guilt-ridden for women, and therefore women seek sexual punishment in order to alleviate their guilt over having sex. (Yes, an odd theory, particualrly by today's liberated ways and changing roles, I know.) So, do some men perhaps crave not so much domination, but the 'traditional' female role of being cared for by their spouse/partner, rather than the responsibility of carer? And, is it really an indication of being weaker to want to be cared for occasionally?

But it’s the pain that I find most intriguing, and I don’t really think there’s an answer to what make that, oh, so fine line between pleasure and pain so damned exciting! Pain, just plain pain is not. Pain suffered for someone else’s pleasure is. It’s an incredibly curious thing, isn’t it? It’s almost like in showing a willingness to serve and suffer it’s proof of desire and love, and therefore it's satisfying.

I think no matter which way you look at it sexual submission isn’t for weak hearted wimps.

Sexual submission is for those liberated of guilt and suppression pursuing their passion and needs.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

The same could be said for women as well. Women have to be strong to submit, especially in today's "female empowered" society.

In fact, I'd say there's probably less stigma these days for men to submit then for women. Men don't have "masculinists" preaching to them about how they have to be strong and take their place as the "empowered" sex.

[AndrewBlack]

I reckon you are right but I also think that the cultural/political-correctness climate is actually swinging back ( from in your face female 'empowerment' ) towards a genuine egalitarianism (Hoo-fucking-rah). Maybe I'm just geting older but everyone seems to be a lot more reasonable and less polarized about 'gender issues', is it my imagination or does anyonw agree with this?

This is great not only cos it's right but as there's nothing more tedious than people spouting 20 year old feminist theory.

[Alex Bragi]

The same could be said for women as well. Women have to be strong to submit, especially in today's "female empowered" society.

Yes, I agree, but surely there’s a world of difference between sexual submission and sexual suppression, and femdom and feminism? I feel female empowerment is more about liberating women from the restraints of centuries (millenniums?) of male dominance socially, more so than sexually. I think losing the old “close your eyes and think of your country’ attitude was just a nice bonus.

But it’s not just woman who have changed. Men are not longer shackled by their traditional and ego-driven gender/sexual identification -- and surely that’s a good thing. Maybe there’s been a concurrent undercurrent of men’s liberation going on all this time while women have been busily burning their bras?

In fact, I'd say there's probably less stigma these days for men to submit then for women. Men don't have "masculinists" preaching to them about how they have to be strong and take their place as the "empowered" sex.

I would have to agree male submission does have less of a stigma these days, as do gays and lesbians, and many other minority groups as we evolve and become a more open-minded lot.

As for men not having “masculinists (Ha! Good word – mind if I use it too?) preaching to them”: When major changes take place there will always be, and possibly needs to be, radicals to push the changes. I saw an interview with Germaine Greer, author of the ‘The Female Eunuch’ a while back. When she wrote that book, which was a landmark in the history of the women’s movement, she realised she needed to be ‘extremely hard hitting’ to get her point across – and she surely did!

reckon you are right but I also think that the cultural/political-correctness climate is actually swinging back ( from in your face female 'empowerment' ) towards a genuine egalitarianism (Hoo-fucking-rah). Maybe I'm just geting older but everyone seems to be a lot more reasonable and less polarized about 'gender issues', is it my imagination or does anyonw agree with this?

This is great not only cos it's right but as there's nothing more tedious than people spouting 20 year old feminist theory.

I agree with you, Andrew. Society is a very cyclical thing.

Whether, or not men and women will ever be completely ‘equal’? I don’t think so. Personally, I think we are much too different psychologically. Obviously, very physically different too, and – Vi va la différence!

[dane]

Yes when I was younger and playing around a lot. I did not hide the gamez I was up to. Thus some of my male friends had a few insulting comments at times.

I just laughed at them, "Yes sure, I'm playing around with 10 women a month, getting wild & kinky. And yer what ?... reading Penthouse and making friends with "Rosie" (U got to know the Jackson Brown song for that one ). Fine, I'm a wuz, and you're a stud.. enjoy Rosie"

[csr]

How many of your men out there crave to submit, sexually, to a strong woman? And, how many others have this ridiculous notion that these men are some kind of breed of gamma males – wimps?

A man has to be very self-assured and confident of his own masculinity to submit to a physically weaker woman. Whether you're a male, or female, submissive it takes a hell of a load of strength to surrender, and a lot of courage to trust your fate to someone else.

I’d particularly like to see some of those macho males, who mock submissive men, allow a woman to take control, tie them down and whip them. Hey, all you himbos, how about it? No? No, takers? Do I hear hairy knees a knocking already? What’s the matter? Don’t you have the intestinal fortitude for it? Does the idea of it make you feel threatened? Let’s face it, maybe you just don’t have the balls for it?

But, seriously, why do these submissive men do it? Why do they crave this feminine domination. What’s in it for them? I mean, we are talking about the male species here, aren’t we?

Why? Same reason a submissive female does it. If you're a sub, it feels good. That is why your invitation to dominant males to "allow a woman to take control, tie them down and whip them. " just wouldn't work. Might as well ask a gay man to screw a woman.

Submission is an erotic preference IMHO, and is not really related to gender. You wouldn't say that a submissive female is submissive because it has something to do with her being a female would you? I know lots of well-adjusted, effeminate women who would never dream of kneeling at a man's feet, ever. Is this a problem with them? No.. It's just a preference. It doesn't turn them on.

In vanilla sex, I have no problem being aggressive, dominant even, typically male, if you will. But when playtime rolls around, put a whip in my hand and I would get an immediate soft-on. I love BDSM, and I love to see a woman tied and punished, but I derive absolutely no pleasure from doing it myself.

Men who are sexually submissive, and I must emphasise that – sexually submissive, generally tend to have a lot of power and responsibility in their lives....

I don't doubt that you got this information from a credible source. However, psychologists have been theorizing causes for sexual preference for years... and every few years the old theories get changed.

Remember when we all thought homosexuality was caused by bad parenting? How about the one that submissive females are like that only because they had been abused? Bull right? Well the same goes when people try to find environmental "reasons" for what turns me on.

Does that mean that if I change careers to ditch digger I will stop wanting my nipples tortured? Lol.. Right.

As far as "macho" men looking down on sub males... in the real world this is really just vanilla males. Same ones who have weird ideas about BDSM in any form. As far as I've seen in the R/L BDSM community YKINMK means acceptance of everyone. All kinksters are on the "outside" so we don't judge each other.

Psychologists theorize that individuals who reject their own sexual needs, because of feeling of guilt that they’re out of the ‘norm’, often suffer greatly reduced self esteem, resulting in repression, depression, and oppression -- not so for the sexually submissive male.

It would seem that many of them find a certain freedom in allowing themselves to be enslaved to woman. Sure, it sounds like a complete and utter contradiction, doesn’t it? How can it be that they can find liberation in this kind of commitment? Well they do. During their time of submission they
are free of decision making and responsibilities and in giving over control they are better able to serve the needs of the woman.

Once again, this applies to anyone. Change the pronouns and you could be talking about a submissive female. What about a submissive lesbian or gay man... the theory still works?

But, still, why do they do it? What enjoyment do they derive from this feeling of helplessness, and often humiliation?

There is nothing humiliating about submission in a BDSM context. If a stranger walked up to me on the street and slapped me and told me to kneel I'd flip him/her the bird and walk away. Submission in my world is only by choice to the person I choose. Humiliation as a style of play, well that's another story, but not the same thing really IMO.

Is it because of some an early childhood experience? E.g. All those times when his little penis rubbed on mummy’s stocking tops as she put him over her lap and spanked him? Perhaps it takes him back to when life was his life was uncomplicated and his pleasures simple. I imagine many men would like to return to that time in their lives, if only occasionally.

So would many women... in fact I've seen a few around here

According to Freud women are naturally more masochistic than men. He argued that because of the risk of pregnancy, sex is more dangerous and guilt-ridden for women, and therefore women seek sexual punishment in order to alleviate their guilt over having sex. (Yes, an odd theory...

Most of Freud's theories were... ground-breaking and forward-thinking back then, but certainly not the answers to the questions in psychology.

But it’s the pain that I find most intriguing, and I don’t really think there’s an answer to what make that, oh, so fine line between pleasure and pain so damned exciting! Pain, just plain pain is not. Pain suffered for someone else’s pleasure is. It’s an incredibly curious thing, isn’t it? It’s almost like in showing a willingness to serve and suffer it’s proof of desire and love, and therefore it's satisfying.

Yes, yes, yes! I could not agree more.

I think no matter which way you look at it sexual submission isn’t for weak hearted wimps.

Sexual submission is for those liberated of guilt and suppression pursuing their passion and needs.

ditto!