Creating a fictional world

[RiverOtter]

I love the idea of a fictional world where sexual slavery is permitted and condoned (ie, you could see someone walking their sub on a leash down Main St. and it would seem normal); however I want to have rules in place to prevent abuse, as I do not find a scene sexy when one person does not care about another's well being to at least *some* degree.

Unfortunately these two ideas are not very compatible (that's why we don't condone slavery in real life, duh :P)

I don't want to get bogged down in too much exposition; I'd prefer to keep the rules of the game simple. What I've thought of so far:

-"Volunteers Only" Only people who want to be slaves are. (Problem: limits story and character possibilities)

-"Professionals Only" Owners are specifically trained and supervised to train slaves. (Problem: same as above)

-"The Check-up" Submissives have to be checked on by a third party regularly. (Problem: they may lie, and it's their word vs. the owner's)

-"No Pain, no Gain" If the submissive doesn't want to do something, they won't get a reward they really want, so the owner knows when they honestly can't take anymore. (Problem: it's not "true" submission)

-"A Worse Alternative" The slave wants to avoid something worse than slavery, so there's an incentive to please the owner. (Problem: the worse the alternative, the worse the worse the potential for abuse)

-"No Blood, no Foul" There are hard limits on what can be done to a slave that are not subjective--no bleeding, broken bones, etc. Anything else goes.
(Problem: you can torture someone without leaving marks)

"Deus Ex BDSM" There's a way to know, to the satisfaction of everyone, when too much is too much and to monitor behavior. (Problem: only works in sci fi or magical settings)

I'm not trying to create a utopia; in fact, the dilemma of abuse could always be an interesting plot point. In the end I guess you just have to pick your poison but what other ideas are out there? Ideas are greatly welcomed.

[ElectricBadger]

I'd suggest something along the line of Health Inspectors; think of those we have today: while yes, there's the rare incidence of e-coli or something, it's generally pretty safe and appealing to eat in a restaurant. Slaves have a "licensing fee" to pay for these routine (and at times, surprise) checkups, which I imagine aren't the warm cuddly sort of inspection. With blood, urine and fecal samples, and a thorough bodily examination the inspectors determine how much stress the slave has gone through, how badly theyve been beaten, etc. It may not be perfectly realistic, but it's not that beyond either.

There would also be checks. Logically, people with slaves consider them a huge investment, and just as one wouldn't crash a porshe just for fun one wouldn't injure a slave, either. There would also be some sort of "underground railroad" attempting to free slaves, particularly those that were abused badly, and of course some sort of watchdog groups: like Greenpeace, but for slaves. Finally, it would be legal for slaves to take action to prevent greivous injury -- and that would include maiming or killing their owner in any circumstances that get deadly.

None of these are perfect, naturally, but as the author you could simply declare them "very effective."

[Rhabbi]

Interesting concept, and one I have fantasized about in the past. You have seen most of the problems, but why worry about logic? If you are uncomfortable with abuse, just develop a society where self defense is totally legal, even from a sub.

Robert A. Heinlein did this in a few societies that he wrote about, people were armed, there was a strict code of conduct that was enforced, not by the government, but by the people. This might be a little tricky to make work, but it would be feasible.

As for having an incentive to be a sub, wht not just do what John Norman did in Gor? Either a society, or a simple genetic bias toward a dominant sex. Or, if you want a gender neutral world, two races that are similar in appearance, but have a significant diffeance that makes one naturally submissive, and the other dominant. Actually, this might be the best way to go, it gives you a wide randge of subs to play with. Couple it with a society that does not tolerate the physical abuse you want to avoid, and the societal impulse that allows any individual the right to make that call, and you have a world that could be perfect.

Of course, there is still the problem of lying. But a false report could land the one that lies in a situation that is much worse than the one he or she wants to avoid. Those are just the details. Let me know if you like this, but I do reserve the right to use the idea myself.

[Dragon's muse]

My first thought for the monitoring of how slaves were treated was a tiny implant that would act just like the "black box" on an airplane, or a rescue beacon in an emergency raft. If it were a beacon, it would send a signal if stress hormones reached too high a level (individually set based on baseline measurements on each subject.)

If it were a "black box" sort of affair, the slave would have to report monthly for downloading of data.

[Ozme52]

I agree... you shouldn't try to get too complicated.

So... Why not just copy real life... vis-a-vis humans and pets. Most everyone loves their pets and would never think of abusing them.

This allows for all kinds of hot story lines... and the occassional mis-use... (and rescue?) story. Pets can be treated like dogs or cats or horses (ponyboy/girls) or exotics.

Alternately... but along the same line... make it a slightly sci-fi setting. Two races physically similar but the superior race communicates telepathically... and the pets don't. In addition to all of the above story lines... you can add all kinds of breeding programs. Breeding for behavior, physical attributes... etc.

[RiverOtter]

I agree with most of these so far. As I write the story, what seems to work most are 1) Regular checks and 2) slaves as valued commodities, as was said. I also like the idea of thinking of the slave (even treating some of them) as a "pet;" I had written a scene like this already and thought it was cute. This seems to cover most bases without requiring a ton of explanation.

As the story is progressing, it seems to be consisitent so far. It's not a sci-fi or magical setting, so that seems to preclude the "black box" (although that would solve most problems). If I were to use a futuristic device, I would make it the collar; it just seems appropriate.

-As for the issue of lying, yes I agree there should be consequnces to act as a disincentive to do so.

-It seems reasonable that a culture with a "dominant" group would have an strong moral code about how to treat slaves. In this story the dominant group is more defined by social status and birth.

Fianally, I think it's important that the dom believes that they are doing the right thing for the slave (whether the slave happens to be willing or not).

[RiverOtter]

Any other ideas? I'm curious to know what others have thought of or written about.

[bthest]

I've also dabbled with a story about a fictional world and put some thought into it and decided the most important factor is why an apparent civilized society that can make microchips would "enslave" people as play things and pets. Punishment for crime? Tradition? Religion perhaps?

I couldn't come up with a convincing enough reason (for me at least) so I ended up making the society more privative. Along the lines of 17th-18th century Europe.

[RiverOtter]

It's historically true that civilized societies--the ones that treat people with greater equality--develop technology faster, and that slavery is more a hindrence than a help in developing an advanced, technology driven economy.

However, I don't believe that technology, in and of itseslf, makes us better or more empathetic towards our fellow humans. Many repressive regimes are willing to use whatever technology they can get their hands on to bolster their power, and many people in the world do not view all other humans as equals.

I am working on a sci-fi story set in an alternate world where an autocratic empire is the major world power, and it only really requires a little suspension of disbelief for slavery to exist in it.

As I read history, I've come to believe that we are not born with the idea that "all men are created equal;" it's something that has to be ingrained in us as we grow up. Otherwise, how could the most "civilized" peoples take slavery for granted for most of human history? Technology itself does not change that mindset.

[Mad Lews]

It's historically true that civilized societies--the ones that treat people with greater equality--develop technology faster, and that slavery is more a hindrence than a help in developing an advanced, technology driven economy.

However, I don't believe that technology, in and of itseslf, makes us better or more empathetic towards our fellow humans. Many repressive regimes are willing to use whatever technology they can get their hands on to bolster their power, and many people in the world do not view all other humans as equals.

I am working on a sci-fi story set in an alternate world where an autocratic empire is the major world power, and it only really requires a little suspension of disbelief for slavery to exist in it.

As I read history, I've come to believe that we are not born with the idea that "all men are created equal;" it's something that has to be ingrained in us as we grow up. Otherwise, how could the most "civilized" peoples take slavery for granted for most of human history? Technology itself does not change that mindset.

What an interesting historical interpretation!!

I would have said slavery was historically universal once any culture reached the social status of an agriculture based economy. That would have been the necessary prerequisite toward a surplus economy that could lead to trade and an advance into a more technological age. Those society's that never did make these transitions still have various forms of slavery to this day. (certain areas of Africa and SW Asia and a few other scattered spots)

Slavery as an institution isn't about rights or equality. It is simply much cheaper in a modern society to use machines to do drudge work, people, even slaves are high maintenance. The idea that "All people are created equal." Is a political truth, not a human one. as such it can only be enforced by the power of a government.

just a thought
Mad Lews

[RiverOtter]

"It is simply much cheaper in a modern society to use machines to do drudge work; people, even slaves are high maintenance."

Yes, thank you for clarifying. Which leaves the question, how do I justify having slaves in a high tech world? Well, I don't; in this new story I just accept it; like I said, I don't think it requires all that much suspension of disbelief.

I just disagree with the premise of Gene Roddenberry's "Star Trek:" namely, that technology will make us better people by satisfying our wants and needs. I just don't think human nature works that way.

[Mad Lews]

"It is simply much cheaper in a modern society to use machines to do drudge work; people, even slaves are high maintenance."

Yes, thank you for clarifying. Which leaves the question, how do I justify having slaves in a high tech world? Well, I don't; in this new story I just accept it; like I said, I don't think it requires all that much suspension of disbelief.

I just disagree with the premise of Gene Roddenberry's "Star Trek:" namely, that technology will make us better people by satisfying our wants and needs. I just don't think human nature works that way.

I suspect the slave would be a status symbol in such a world, an outward trapping to let people know you are a power that be. Not unlike the Mansion on the hill and the new Porsche and other bling for the masses to admire.

Which leads to some interesting 'Slave" personalities. Proud to be really expensive comes to mind.

Now obtaining slave stock in such a situation, could get interesting, some would be breed (Very expensive) they would be the passive proud and sensual variety.

Others might be hunted and captured from the uncivilized worlds. Another expensive option that would offer both adventure and a certain satisfaction for the tourist. Training might be offer in the safari vacation package. THis variety could end up with a mixture of personality quirks and would be a lot more challengingly to own.

What do you do with the untrainable ones???

Such a system of licensed and legal slavery would of course become a temptation to the more criminal element and it would probably include a small number of 'citizens' who had been kidnapped and enslaved under less than l legal methods.

You know the old undocumented slave problem we suffer under these days.

Mad Lews

[GreyJack]

To my thinking the best novels of "alternative worlds" generate and provide entire cultures, not merely "localized communities." There are plenty of various examples in history where slavery was part of a long term culture, not always economically based (as in the United States pre-Civil War). In Turkey, for example, slaves were used in the navy (both military and commercial). There were also slaves in the army, which eventually grew into a political power. Eunuch societies, too, often became powerful, even in Christian empires such as at Byzantium. Eunuchs were essentially slaves and did, indeed, engage in sexual activities. The primary thing to consider is how you want to present slavery. The more diverse and well-rounded the presentation the more interesting and creative it can be.

[Rhabbi]

i agree with Greyjack here. If you want to keep it simple, why not go back in time and make an alternate history? One where slavery exists but little else has changed. technological development would have found a lucrative market in preventing slaves from escaping and controlling them. viola, all your problems solved. Besides, electroshock is actually a pretty effective training method.

[DarkPoet]

i agree with Greyjack here. If you want to keep it simple, why not go back in time and make an alternate history? One where slavery exists but little else has changed. technological development would have found a lucrative market in preventing slaves from escaping and controlling them. viola, all your problems solved. Besides, electroshock is actually a pretty effective training method.

I've found this kind of setup, regardless of bdsm contents, quite challenging. Changing history often makes me cut out important social development steps that would however be needed to explain other behaviours, having me fill in fictional events that lead to the same results in that regard. It's easy to loose oneself in those complex interdependencies and get stuck with the story line, and I have quite a number of paper zombies resting in my drawers because of that.

That's why I've become more fond of the approach to take the current status and pick out one or two real world problems to construct a halfway plausible development. As an example, if I wanted to create a world with a reasonable number of willing slaves, I'd start with the possible sources. One that comes instantly to my mind are convicted criminals. Almost every major country has problems accomodating prisoners in a way that is affordable while still being safe. So why not let them have the choice between a regular prison sentence and a shortened and maybe in other (monetary?) ways appealing slave duty. Well-off customers could then rent those slaves and cross-finance the "conservative" convicts. Add to that a little bit of decadence having developed with the juries by having them put arbitrary constraints on the slave contracts (don't forget to stir the mix sufficiently), the author has every tool in his hands to make his world plausible.

[RiverOtter]

If you want to keep it simple, why not go back in time and make an alternate history? One where slavery exists but little else has changed.

I rather like this approach; in the case of this story, I'm basically transplanting an ancient culture to the present. What I've found, surprisingly, is that it's not so hard to believe.

[Razor7826]

Yes, the alternate history approach is always a great way to go. Try to make a history of all of the major events that led to the abolishment of slavery or indentured servitude, and think about what would happen if just one of those events took a decidedly different path.

[Faibhar]

Whatever your personal limits, including imagination, should all be allowed in this venue and an "alternate history approach" is just one example.

Faibhar