The Responsibilities of a Dominant/Master

[e.b.]

Pandora,

Thanks, it's always nice to know a comment was helpful.

I can also identify with the dilemma of having it be so good at times that it makes a decision about whether to continue much more difficult. I'd say that the majority of the time, my Master and I are wonderfully connected and in touch with the other's needs and wants...in vanilla and s/m contexts. However, there have been some glaring issues for me lately that he doesn't seem to truly grasp what I'm thinking or trying to communicate. Thus, he treats them as if they're relatively minor issues while they continue to get in the way for me.

So, along the lines of...

you may have to spell it out for him...not just drop the ball in his court, but bounce it off his head.

...we got in a heated discussion/argument. It actually ended up being in an M/s context as well since my attempts to discuss matters as equals hadn't impressed upon him the severity of my troubles. However, that seemed to help to shock him enough to get him to realize a bit more of what I'm going through.

Basically, during an IM, he made a comment regarding a problem that I'd brought up earlier. His comment was made flippantly and it regarded an aspect of how I deal with certain situations that he knew was less than accurate. So I called him on it. I told him that what he'd said was "bullshit" and I preceeded to tell him why. Now I can swear as efficiently as most people in appropriate situations, but he'd never heard me do it as a sub unless in a moaning response to pain/pleasure. I felt disrespectful as I don't find that an appropriate way to address my dom, but there are only so many ways to get that sort of "heads-up" value of a ball bounced on his head via IM.

After that, we actually had the start of a promising discussion. So, sometimes I guess the shock value may be worth a try if nothing else is working.

eb

[Pandora's Box]

Well... I did end up calling him. I, in many ways, resent that I had to be the one to step forward. The message was simple. I asked him to call me so we could talk and try to fight for and save "us".

Without other means, I was limited... and I don't want to lose this without fighting. I never want to look back and say "what if?"

If he doesn't call... which I can't imagine... then I'll have my answer.

So now... I wait.

[spike]

I asked him to call me so we could talk and try to fight for and save "us".

Remember, when he calls, you are equals. No subbing. Tell him it is that important.

Spike

[mythicat]

Darn you people posting while I'm writing my long-ass dissertation! lol
Oh well, apply what still applies and ignore the rest.

He actually may not know. Heh. He should know. It's not like I haven't said enough to put it together. But he actually may not have a clue.



How do I do this? Seriously. I don't know. I have told him my needs... But if I need to do more, then what is a good way to do it? Without me going to him. I don't even know if email is a viable option. He has the time to check it about once or twice a week.



It is his busy season. It is supposed to let up once the rainy and cold season starts. That is what he has told me.

It would be easier if we hadn't got off to such a rocky start. Long story. But I believe I glanced on it in my first topic here. But to give him a fair shake, after we had talked about the "rockiness" and before it got busy at his club... he was good about spending time with me.

Another thing that would make it easier is if this wasn't online for right now. We want to take it to "3 dimensional" (I like that term) but his work has curtailed those plans for now.

I am glad you posted about your experience with your husband's schedule. It makes me feel less alone in all this.

I just don't feel particularly secure right now. And it would mean the world to me if I even received a 20 second "sweet nothing" email... and yes I've asked. But to no avail.

I know it's hard to concentrate on others when he's busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest... but shouldn't he try? A little email or phone message or something?

Seems to me you have some options, and some decisions to make for yourself:

1.) You could wait for his busy season to clear up and see how it goes after that. Find a hobby, take a class, read, go for long walks, play online casually if it's permitted, play with yourself if it's not ...do what you need to in order to get through this dry spell, but do NOT nag him for attention. You will never get what you need from anyone that way. And in this case you will only be equating his thoughts of you with more stress and more demands. Not exactly the way to a Dom's heart. If he's tired and overworked he isn't going to want to deal with one more hassle. If you're hassling him, that means you.

You have to decide if only getting attention from him half the year is something you can accept and adapt to over the long-haul. Assuming of course that you are attended to properly when he's not so busy.

2.) Tell him (again) that you just need him to reach back to you a little bit when he's this busy, only this time tell him why. Don't make a big emotional production number out of it, just state everything simply and clearly. Email might be your best bet since you can write it, edit it, sleep on it, and edit it again before you send it; plus he can read and process it on his own schedule. There's no way of doing this without you going to him. If that's not possible then this isn't an option. If it is still an option, then wait at least 3 weeks for him to reply. If he checks his email once a week, that gives him sufficient time to read it, think about it, and write you back no matter how busy he is...IF he is willing and able to meet your needs.

If you just can't be the one to reach out one more time, or you don't want to wait that long for a reply, then a relationship with a busy insensitive man isn't going to work for you even if he's only busy part of the year. You also have to decide what you'll do if you don't like the response (or lack thereof), or if he agrees to make a small effort and then consistently fails to do so again.

3.) Cut your losses. Sometimes even the perfect man isn't capable of being the right man for you. (and vice versa ) You cant expect him to be anything other than what he is right now. Bow out gracefully with a simple notification that you need something different at this time, and wish him well. If he wants to know more than that, he'll ask. Then move on with your life, grateful that you've gained insights about yourself and your own needs.

It all boils down to what you decide your minimum needs are, and if he is both willing and able to meet them as often as you require. And if not, can you live with that? Do you want to live with that? Is there enough else there to overcome or look past that?

[mythicat]

Remember, when he calls, you are equals. No subbing. Tell him it is that important.

Spike

Maybe...but as e.b. said:

It actually ended up being in an M/s context as well since my attempts to discuss matters as equals hadn't impressed upon him the severity of my troubles. However, that seemed to help to shock him enough to get him to realize a bit more of what I'm going through.

Sometimes making it a D/s-M/s conversation acts as a reminder to the Dom (or sub) of his (or her) responsibilities. Reinforces to both parties that they have agreed to certain obligations above and beyond the context of a vanilla relationship. And one or the other is slackin' off on the job!

[allalone46]

Pandora. I am sorry to here everything. Know you need to start asking yuur self a real hard question. I didn't want to say it, and I hope you can work it out. I do hope you can work it out.

[Pandora's Box]

Well... the dialogue has begun. I finally did hear from him. To be honest... I wasn't thrilled with his answers. And of course another interuption.

So I said what I needed to say in an email and left him a voice mail message.

This isn't going to be easy. But I love this man so much, I can't even begin to understand it sometimes.

It is going to be a long process. But if he's willing to put in the efforts to fix things, I will be very happy to stay with him.

I am now in "wait mode" again. Awaiting his reactions and what he has to say to what I've written and what I've said.

Keep your fingers crossed for us. Goodness knows mine are.

[e.b.]

Pandora,

Wow, I feel like I could've written pretty much the exact same post that you just did above. So please know that I'm thinking good thoughts for you as I think them for my own D/s relationship.

I don't know about you, but dealing with all this is kind-of tearing me up...and I hate that I have trouble concentrating on school, work, etc. b/c of it. I guess it's been awhile since I was the needier of the two people in a relationship. I really care about this one though. That's what makes it so incredibly hard.

Take care,

eb

[Texxx]

Well... the dialogue has begun. I finally did hear from him. To be honest... I wasn't thrilled with his answers. And of course another interuption.

So I said what I needed to say in an email and left him a voice mail message.

This isn't going to be easy. But I love this man so much, I can't even begin to understand it sometimes.

It is going to be a long process. But if he's willing to put in the efforts to fix things, I will be very happy to stay with him.

I am now in "wait mode" again. Awaiting his reactions and what he has to say to what I've written and what I've said.

Keep your fingers crossed for us. Goodness knows mine are.

I do wish you the best....Life deals U/us some hard-to-play hands at time I know.......For whatever reason W/we did not get off on the right foot....thats that.....But, I honestly do wish you both the best.....

Texxx
Gorean Master

[Pandora's Box]

I appreciate that Texxx. Thank you.

[Pandora's Box]

Pandora,

Wow, I feel like I could've written pretty much the exact same post that you just did above. So please know that I'm thinking good thoughts for you as I think them for my own D/s relationship.

I don't know about you, but dealing with all this is kind-of tearing me up...and I hate that I have trouble concentrating on school, work, etc. b/c of it. I guess it's been awhile since I was the needier of the two people in a relationship. I really care about this one though. That's what makes it so incredibly hard.

Take care,

eb

eb, maybe we can have coffee over IM and commiserate together sometime.

I wish you the best too. Time will tell. But let's both cross our fingers for each other.

[e.b.]

eb, maybe we can have coffee over IM and commiserate together sometime.

I wish you the best too. Time will tell. But let's both cross our fingers for each other.

Pandora, I'd be delighted to IM...although I think I'll be having some chamomile tea instead of coffee. I'll send a PM (tomorrow probably) w/ my AIM info since I don't have it posted in my profile.

Texxx, I also very much appreciate your warm wishes. Thanks!

eb

[AndrewBlack]

I've probably missed the boat here having just read the thread but anyway. Speaking as someone who has had an extremely time-demanding job and as a bloke; firstly, you can always make time for someone but if you only have a few hours of time a week free they become extremely valuable and the only life you have. Your partner has to understand that, it may mean that what you consider is a tiny slice of time is what he considers a lot, he may even have already sacrificed many other things to allow you even that. He may see it in those terms, like he has 4 hours a week of free time and he devotes 2 of them to you, that that is generous. It is very difficult to cut your job hours down in certain situations, sometimes it's an all-or-nothing thing with no happy part-time medium. I think if his work falls into that category, without significant seasonal variation to achieve adequate compensation, you are going to struggle in this relationship and will ultimately always be playing catch-up. If the job is here to stay and is uncompromising then you may have to accept a very small amount of time if that is genuinely all he can give. If it isn't, what does he spend his time doing that he can sacrifice to spend more time with you?

When I have been busy at work it seems like I spend very little time with my girlfriend, I do value that time a lot but I equally need free time away from her to do other things ( she gets this time while I am working evenings,weekends, nights...etc...). This need is not immediately apparent until you view things from the opposite perspective, I've had problems in previous relationships from this issue and inequalities in the balance of housework that did not acknowledge that I worked over 3 times as many hours a week than my partner. I'm blithering away from the point now so I'll stop

Secondly, expecting someone to pick up on your hints and being frustrated when they don't is something I've been on the recieving end of; nearly always asking, 'Why didn't you just say so explicitly ?' . I know it's the stereotypical Venus/Mars guff but I do think you need to be very specific with your man. There are seldom relationship problems that get better resolution than from an intimate and honest discussion with all cards laid on the table. Sometimes it may be scary to do this because we're afraid that it may end 'badly', I think it's better to work things through than to have the uncertainty and constant nagging of unresolved issues. You may find a very acceptable compromise. My frank advice would be to make time (hours) for a face to face discussion with complete honesty on both sides. If you don't think he has time for E-mails and such this should be better and also something so important surely deserves proper attention.

Hope you sort your life out

[Pandora's Box]

Thank you Andrew.

It's never too late to offer words from personal experience.

I think one of the most surprising things about this is how many people are in a similar situation. To be honest... I had no idea that this was such a problem for so many. Naive perhaps, but honest.

I fight the urge to nag because I don't want to make him feel bad. Especially for something like a work schedule that is hard to work around. And I don't want him to ever think he can't or shouldn't be with me because it will make him feel bad. That's not my "job", so to speak.

This has definitely been enlightening to say the least.

Granted, I do believe there are certain small things he could do but does not. And I would like him to. But Rome wasn't built in a day. I love him... so I try to be patient. And that's no small task for me. Patience is a life long struggle of mine.

I don't want to give him up. He means far too much to me for that. I just wish he could spare more time for me... but you know the saying... "if wishes were fishes..."

Most importantly, when I look down into myself, I do believe him. I believe he is being honest. And I do believe he is trying. Not as hard as he could mind you, but the same could probably be said for me patience wise.

It's just so damn hard sometimes...

[allalone46]

You read in the paper, or see on TV some big personality that has just split do to unreclonsilable differencees. If Thay only new. If something is worth having and or in this case keeping than you have to keep working at it, and working , and working.

[Texxx]

I would really like to hear what everyone thinks are the responsibilities of a dominant/master to his submissive. It's something that I think I may be confused on.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thank you.

But I'll be wrong every time you need help.....If indeed ...you get the help from SOMEONE as the result of My being WRONG. *S* I do not have to be "RIGHT", to feel "GOOD".

I would be more than happy to share with you how W/we got thru much the same times and you and your Master/Dom/BF/Lover are now going thru.

I'll be up front and tell yah that I do think that you neeed more time...much more time in fact.

That having been said ...... There was a time ( 5 years give or take) when My girl and I first got together where I was working QUITE OFTEN as many as 20 hours a day. I would come home supper was on the table. Once showered, I would eat....and go to bed. Wake up...and do it again. I frankly never gave it much though about my girl, (IN THAT REGUARD) honestly .... I HAD to do what I was driven to do.....Make a comfortable home for the girl I was responsible for and I might add totally in love with.....Did I actually think that thought.....nope.....It was just Me to do so.

How did she deal with it ....just like I did....You see, we both knew that there was light at the end of the tunnel and if in fact if there wasn't we would build a fire there when we got there ....We totally believed in that light. We did not believe that what we had was a 50/50 thing....it's 100% both ways. There was no turning back...that door was CLOSED.

Now I'll say that even with My schedule I found more time for her than you are now getting.....You are being abused, nothing short. In fact if I were in your shoes and if you are being totally honest ..... I would be certain that He was a clever Married guy.... and I was the "piece" on the side.

I agree that you should in no un-certain terms "LAY THE LAW DOWN". There is nothing in this old world that is more important than YOU. Without your self esteem and pride you are Nothing. Do not allow him to rob you of this all important person.

This world is full of people that do not wish to give 100% to a relationship and that is fine.....I have no problem with that ....none......But I ask them to go buy a blow up doll ....or get a bigger dildo...do whatever it takes to keep from hurting people that are willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES ....to make the relationship work for both P/people.

Even in Gor.....the best Master's listen to their girls. Wanna piss a True Gorean Master off ..... just tell Him you, "had a feeling that was going to happen ... but i did not speak up."

Texxx
Gorean Master
" To increase the depth of a river you dame it up ..... To increase your depth of understanding ..... you let it flow." Hook Tooth Louie

[Pandora's Box]

Texxx, I appreciate your input into the situation.

The thought of him being married has crossed my mind in the past. But... I've been misled by married men before and learned their signs. The only sign he shares in common is the time factor. Heh, although oddly enough the married men that have misled me in the past have actually had more time for me than he has lately. But... then the mistress does tend to get that, as it is an "escape" for him.

I honestly don't think he is married. I've talked to his sisters and work associates. I can't imagine that his sisters would be a party to that type of deception. Plus I've never met a married man that discussed his desire to start a family with me.

I think most of the difficulties come down to the realities of an on-line relationship. We are currently discussing the "meeting". We're trying to plan for the end of next month. His birthday. That would be a nice present for him. (And for me. )

We had a nice productive talk today. About compromise and the importance of coming together and the absolute necessity of him spending more time with me. My feelings of neglect will not go away until that happens. And he knows this now.

I told him I was willing to put more effort into being patient and understanding of his hellacious work schedule if he would put more successful effort into making time for us. That's a start.

One of the things that stuck out to me the most that you said, was about each person giving 100%. Knowing that there was no going back. I thank you for that. As I think that's an important point of discussion that I hadn't thought of. One that needs to be discussed. I do know that I will have to give what you said in that regard more thought before I discuss it with him. I would like to have an organized thought process before I bring it up.

Again, thank you.

[Mobius]

You know your giving him the hand in the relationship. He should be chasing after you. But by falling for his game you are chasing after him.

For what ever it is worth. I think you should walk away and he will come when he is ready. Then you have the hand. As it should be. BDSM or no BDSM,

Men should chase women not the other way around. Not natural.

[mythicat]

Men should chase women not the other way around. Not natural.

Hear Hear!!

But at the same time, keep in mind that some guys don't (or won't) take the bait. If you choose to walk away, you have to be prepared to keep walking should he not come rushing to stop you.

[AndrewBlack]

I couldn't disagree more, and I feel very strongly about this.

Don't play games with your partner. They may not turn out the way you want and may add additional complications to an already difficult situation. An up front approach will benefit you most in the long term.

[mythicat]

True...he should've been chasing after her from the beginning.

It's too late to turn that around now except through communication...if even that would work. Habits hard to break, etc and so forth.

[Pandora's Box]

I'm not good at playing games. I just don't seem to have the knack for it. I'm a shoot from the hip type of gal.

He did do the chasing to begin with. Although oddly enough, I don't really consider myself chasing after him.

More like, poking him in the ass and reminding him I'm here. Heh.

[Mobius]

I'm not good at playing games. I just don't seem to have the knack for it. I'm a shoot from the hip type of gal.

He did do the chasing to begin with. Although oddly enough, I don't really consider myself chasing after him.

More like, poking him in the ass and reminding him I'm here. Heh.

you are not playing games, He is. The more you chase after him, The more he is going to turn you into a phyko stalker lady.

He considers you his. (dont buy the milk when you can get it free etc)

The more you chase the more he is going to make you chase him. Back off, give him space. He will come after you, I promis you that. Just go out get your self a big fat container of eddys dubble fudge chocolate and a stack of DVD's and camp out for a weekend. If he has not had the usual 83 phone msg and 256 emails. He will wonder what is going on and call you. Make him think you have a life with out him. And make him want to be a part of it.

[mythicat]

you are not playing games, He is. The more you chase after him, The more he is going to turn you into a phyko stalker lady.

He considers you his. (dont buy the milk when you can get it free etc)

The more you chase the more he is going to make you chase him. Back off, give him space. He will come after you, I promis you that. Just go out get your self a big fat container of eddys dubble fudge chocolate and a stack of DVD's and camp out for a weekend. If he has not had the usual 83 phone msg and 256 emails. He will wonder what is going on and call you. Make him think you have a life with out him. And make him want to be a part of it.

The "kitty" treatment doesn't work when the target has no time to respond appropriately. Besides, if she were a cat being treated like this by her owner she'd have a nice soft cushion and all the tuna she could eat at the neighbor's house by now.

[Pandora's Box]

Hehehe Very true Mythicat.

I've tried that route - giving space and time to have him come to me. He's oblivious. LOL Lordy, all Friday, goodness knows I've tried. He does come eventually, but his schedule isn't something he can rearrange just because of my hurt feelings.

But... then on the upside, learning to confront him with my displeasure has been a fantastic growing experience for me. As I haven't always been able to clearly verbalize or express what I need, where my problems are.

So there are plusses to the situation. But then my mother also taught me to look for that silver lining.

The main thing is that I want an honest solution. One borne of honest compromise and desire. And... I do believe we are working towards that. Time, discussions and effort will get us there more than any mindgames or behavioral/emotional manipulations.

[Finding_Fantasy]

Of the nine items there the only one that is not an essential part of the contribution of both sides to any close relationship is '8. Ability to guide'.

I would have to disagree with you here, Spike. In a way, the submissive does need to guide the Dominant for the Dominant cannot know what the submissive expects, wants, or needs without guidance from the submissive. As far as I am aware, Dominants are not mind readers.

Pandora, to me it sounds that you know exactly what you want and need from your dominant. Don;t let anyone else's short sightedness and negitivity deter you from what you feel is what will work for you. I am sure that you are well aware that no one is perfect all of the time -or any of the time- and didn't need it pointed out - especially so rudely. Stick to your guns and don't settle until you have what you are looking for.

[mythicat]

Originally Posted by spike
Of the nine items there the only one that is not an essential part of the contribution of both sides to any close relationship is '8. Ability to guide'.

I would have to disagree with you here, Spike. In a way, the submissive does need to guide the Dominant for the Dominant cannot know what the submissive expects, wants, or needs without guidance from the submissive. As far as I am aware, Dominants are not mind readers.

(Psst - I think he was saying that's the one thing not essential in vanilla relationships. It's the one characteristic BDSM relationships have that vanilla relationships don't...at least not so overtly (my opinion).

[Pandora's Box]

It's over.

I opened the door. He never walked through.

[spike]

It's over.

I opened the door. He never walked through.

Fair lady, we are all sad with you. There are many men who know how to use doors. Next time ... you will know what to do. Always gain from what you learn.

Spike

[Spencergee]

It's over.

I opened the door. He never walked through.

His loss.

(and you can bake as well)!