Erotic Pain vs. NonErotic Pain

[Eponine]

I searched the forums for this topic... found the "humiliation debate", which was interesting... so this question is similar...

What makes certain types of pain erotic vs. nonerotic?
I know most probably agree that a spanking is erotic, whereas stubbing your toe is not... But I was just wondering why... trying to figure out some definitive differences... no reason.. just for intellectual masturbation...

The question came to me when Master and i were joking that He might punch me (NO, He never would, it's a joke- that i started anyway), but it got me thinking... well, erotic pain.. a spanking or whatever, doesn't do any physical, permanent damage... well, neither would something like a punch, but that's generally nonerotic, I think most would agree... but being slapped in the face is erotic (not to all, I know), for example...

So I couldn't pinpoint why exactly... what's the concrete difference?

Any thoughts?

[tessa]

What an excellent question!! I'm too sleepy to think out an answer deserving enough, but I shall return.

tessa

[WyldWyl]

I think it may have something to do with the intention. At least this has been my experience. I mean, pain coming from someone you love as a gesture of that love or of the shared passion between you (whether that pain comes from something as intense as a flogging or similar or is just fingernails in the back...mmmm sorry, drifted off for a moment) is entirely different from the random pains that come from day-to-day mishaps or are inflicted maliciously.

That isnt perhaps what you meant by a 'concrete' difference, but it's about as close as I could make it unless you care to give me a research staff, laboratory and equipment. And if you do, I'll gladly research it exhaustively.

[Aussiegirl1]

This is an interesting question, and one I am not sure I can shed any light on either. I am sure it has a lot to do with the intention behind the pain.

I am not into pain, but know that the few times my Master has asked me to do something that went beyond my normal pain threashold, I have done it. Unlike some I get no rush out of the pain, but there is a certain sense of achievment in doing something I didn't think I could do.

So I am not sure if I find the pain erotic, but I do find it erotic to push myself that bit more for my Master.

I will be interested in other responses too.

[Beswitchingly Positive]

Interesting question.

If you were the sort who got in lots of fights, eventually being punched might become erotic as you knew what to expect, and were therefore less afriad of it. I knew I guy who started punching his mate during sex because slapping her woke up their baby. She grew to like it. Or so it seemed.

I believe, partly based on my own experiences, there is a fine line and a lot of it has to do with mood, the set up, so to speak. What was the conversation before the brutality?

If you were were whipped with a ruler in school as punishment how could this become an erotic fixation? If you were a spanked little girl, why continue a family tradition? You likely hated it as a kid, but the effect lessened everytime...and became...fun???

For some being tattooed is erotic pain, they come out bloody and ready for action, others not so, it is simply a process of art. They might like the endorphen rush, yet it is non erotic. I think it is all mindset.

Think about it, what happens when you feel pain? It changes your body chemisty, similar to a drug, and if it is something that actually scares you (not the, oh no, please don't hehe kind of scared, the I don't want to be punched in the face and lose my teeth kind of scared) this would send different chemicals flooding your nervous system.

I believe, psychologically, almost any pain could become erotic. Cutting limes with papercuts on my fingers hurts, but if there is a damn sexy guy flirting with me at the bar as I do it, it becomes a secret erotic moment.

I am sure there are studies on this in progress as we speak.

[Eponine]

Thank you everyone so far...
Beswitchingly, I think you made a very good point.... one that I thought myself- that any pain can become erotic... and i guess that was part of my question too...

Keep it coming please! If you find this interesting

[Dragon's muse]

My own personal take is different. The sensation of pain as erotic is entirely "Dragon-dependent" for me. If it is coming from Him and is turning Him on, then it becomes insanely erotic for me.

If He were doing something to me that did nothing for Him, it would fall flat with me also.

[ceegee{Benz}]

My own personal take is different. The sensation of pain as erotic is entirely "Dragon-dependent" for me. If it is coming from Him and is turning Him on, then it becomes insanely erotic for me.

If He were doing something to me that did nothing for Him, it would fall flat with me also.

that is because you 2 are as one soul. you feel everything know every thing and sence everything together

[gloombunny]

I'm in the "context is everything" camp. Whether or not pain is erotic depends more on who's inflicting it, and when, and why, not on how they're doing it.

And yes, punches can be erotic. At least, I know they were for me, and the boyfriend I was punching seemed to enjoy them.

[Rhabbi]

Simple definition Erotic pain is anything that turns the reciever of the pain on. I know Mishka well enough to know that almost anything I did to her would be erotic, but if someone else did the exact same thing, in the exact same way, it would be non erotic.

The reason some people have trouble with the concept is that pain is not supposed to be fun. We learn early to avoid pain because it hurts. Yet our body actually responds to pian by producing endorphins that cause pleasure. Then we get into the mind set. I could actuall cause physical damage with the intent to hurt someone, and that person would find it erotic.

trying to define erotic vs non erotic by the intentions of the person causing the pain, or by the type of pain, is useless. this is an entirly subjective definition that resides in the mind of the person in pain.

A few years ago there was a movie that came out of Hollywood. (Crash 1996) It dealt with a fringe element in the BDSM world. Erotica is, and always will be, in the mind of the beholder.

[TomOfSweden]

First time here I've been dumbstruck. I have no idea. Such an integral part of my lifestyle, and it is a complete mystery to me.

I do think that it is very complicated and different things can be true for different people. I've got no trouble seeing what pain makes who happy, but why this happens is a tough one.

Maybe the problem is simply down to definition. Pain is an umbrella definition of a large group of sensations generally conected to discomfort. But if a person is enjoying it, then the basic definition fails. But here it'll fast get amazingly complicated and I'm really just guessing.

[his_delilah (GS)]

I don't have an answer either. But it was kiind of funny that I was wondering the same this week. I was playing soccer and as always I playes too wild. So I fell on my knees. So the first questions of the others was: "Does it hurt?". Well, it did, but I said it was nothing to worry about and (forgetting about they're all being vanilla) I kind of enjoyed the feeling. I just loved the feeling of my knees burning. And it actually (weird me) turned me on.
Too bad my Master wasn't near...
I think trust is very important for me to enjoy pain. When there's no trust I don't even feel it or don't like it.

[nk_lion]

Hmmm....something to ponder upon now during the day

[Wolven_Vixen]

I don't know if there is a concrete difference, so I can't answer that one either, so I can only speak for myself.

For me, erotic pain is the kind of pain that I not only tolerate, but welcome from my Sir. The things that he does to me to give us both pleasure.

Non erotic pain would be any other pain, coming from any other person, thing or event, that is not well tolerated and certainly not welcome.

[Guest 91108]

I agree with what WV posted and those are my thoughts on it as well.

As the Dom, giver... I would not wish to give what isn't wanted... if there is no pleasure from it -- how do I justify my own pleasure? Guess that requires more of a Sadist than I am.

As the Dom, taker .. I find there is pleasure in watching her receive and perform tasks... again any consequential pain is wanted. The whole session of D/s is what I'm after.

Pain is a result .. a by product of the things we ( WV and I ) do.

It is not a goal or a requirement of our sessions.

[pixie_dust]

Something I've always considered is the emotional state at that time.

For example, if you're in a hurry to get out the door, trip, and skin your knee, it won't be a "good" pain because your feeling frustrated with yourself and the situation. On the other hand, if your wrestling around and having fun and it gets rough, it would probably be an erotic and enjoyable pain.

In other words...
good emotions + stimuli = good pain
bad emotions + stimuli = bad pain

[tessa]

Ok, finally made it back here. I've been thinking about this quite a bit.

For me, there is erotic pain and non-erotic pain. Like when my Devil grabs the back of my neck and squeezes really hard if...ha!...when I get sarcastic with him, that's erotic pain for me. And so is a smack on my ass. Or a forceful kiss while his hand grips my face. I could go on and on.

In the past, if we were kidding around, he was likely to give me one of those little punches to the arm. Not a lot of pain involved in that, but I hated it!! It just made me feel awful and icky and ~shudders~. I finally got my feelings on that across to him and he stopped doing it. He thought it was a cute thing to do, 'cause he liked it when I would do something similar to him. Now he can smack my face and I turn into a pool of liquid lust, but that light tap on the arm hurt me in ways I couldn't handle. Why that is, not so sure.

Interesting indeed! Thanks again for asking it. I've loved reading the responses.

tessa

[gagged_Louise]

Something I've always considered is the emotional state at that time.

For example, if you're in a hurry to get out the door, trip, and skin your knee, it won't be a "good" pain because your feeling frustrated with yourself and the situation. On the other hand, if your wrestling around and having fun and it gets rough, it would probably be an erotic and enjoyable pain.

In other words...
good emotions + stimuli = good pain
bad emotions + stimuli = bad pain

Yes, that's a central point to me as well, 'cause if you, like, happpen to get a hand or a finger smashed in a retreating door, which can hurt very bad, then it's far from welcome and likely to be a nuisance for an hour or a lot more after. And you don't have the time, whereas if playing around and getting spanked, whipped hard or whatever, then likely, you've set time aside, and you won't have to rush things just afterwards. Plus, there's an intention: you can see your Dominant inflicting the lashes or whatever on you, so it becomes hotter and easier to handle as "nice pain". Anyone else here noticed, it's often harder to get free of anger with someone if you're all alone and you can't spell it out to the one you're pissed off at, or indeed to anyone? At those times, it can get just impossible to throw off the spite. Isn't it the same with pain, on some level (to perverts like us at least) it gets easier to handle when you can see your tormentor?

I guess it helps too if you knew the torment was coming, you're mentally prepared. In the same vein, when you fantasize about a scenario, you're always sort of prepared (and in control even if you picture yourself totally helpless); that could be a clue to why some things that are great as fantasy become less great in reality.

[Eponine]

Awesome answer!!!

I liked reading everyone's posts as well, but I have to say I really think Pixie Dust's formulas did it for me! But I guess I'm just a little nerdy- anything remotely mathematical always clarifies things for me! lol. Anyway, very cool. Thank You.

I think everyone was kind of saying this same thing, but expressed differently. So, Pixie Dust, you win the best expressed award. yay

[pixie_dust]

I win! I win! LOL Glad I could help out.

[^firefly^]

I was thinking of this thread earlier, in responding to the M is for Masochism thread.
I'm always fascinated by how small, mundane things that hurt can be highly erotic, but sometimes even in sexual play, there are kinds of pain that I don't enjoy (either because they push too close to personal issues/limits, or because they were delivered in a way that I didn't enjoy).
I know I mentioned the example earlier in the other thread about cutting myself, and how it "hurt" but also felt good. Are there some kinds of erotic pain that you guys like, but are are hesitant to explore, because you're afraid of liking it too much?
And on that note, are there things that some might classify as erotic play, but turn you completely off? (Needles do it for me, I'm deathly afraid of them!)
I know these are kinda rambling personal questions, but my mind was ticking it over this morning...and besides which, I'm nosy. Feel free to ignore me.

[Jensen036]

I have had an abusive master in the past. I was beaten because he had the ability to do so, not because he knew I would derive pleasure from it. He only enjoyed it because he loved to see me beg and grovel, to me that is not erotic. In my opinion it can only be erotic if both sides derive some pleasure from it. In most cases I did not find the pain erotic.