Nine Levels of Submission

[Eponine]

...I admit I find it hard to understand how a sane person would allow him/herself to sign off for life any right to speak unless permitted, the right not to give sexual services to everyone ho is Master's guest, and accept to be tortured on a daily basis....

I think that people many times assume that a limitless, or true, slave, is owned by an uncaring, evil person...
which doesn't have to be the case...

In the end, yes, of course, it's all completely consensual... and if the slave feels the master/ mistress has broken promises and is not loving or sensitive to the slave as a human being, an object of master/ mistress' deepest affections and love... then... it should be over...

But inside of that love framework, i think there are slaves out there who would do anything their master/ mistress wanted.

And i really like Dragon's muse's post and description of her own relationship with Dragon.

[Dragon's muse]

Offhand, i cannot think of anything that Dragon is capable of asking me to do that i would refuse. He has never chosen to share me with anyone, we have the same hard limits (minors, animals, snuff, scat), so in a certain sense i could call myself a no-limits slave.

All that being said, if Dragon told me to step in front of a bus, i would say
"Respectfully, Sir, fuck you." But that feeds back into the first line of this post, it is something that he would not ask of me.

rose

[Rhabbi]

Well, Armin Meiwes (the german "Mr. Cannibal") got several responses when he announced for people who were willing to let themselves be killed and eaten. And the guy he picked actually pulled through, although Armin is said to have complained about the quality of his flesh. Though that was a one-off and while the idea is weirdly thrilling somehow, I admit I find it hard to understand how a sane person would allow him/herself to sign off for life any right to speak unless permitted, the right not to give sexual services to everyone ho is Master's guest, and accept to be tortured on a daily basis.


There was a celebrated and truly bizarre murder trial in Sweden three years ago where a young nanny girl working in the house of an extreme pentecostalist Reverend had killed his wife (the woman she was supposed to stand by) and then made an almost-successful attempt at the man living in the next house (whose wife, like the nanny herself, was in love with, and had been adulterous with, the Reverend; both women were highly in awe of him). The nanny girl had bnever killed anyone before, not even held a gun, but she pulled through what she had ben obliquely commanded to do like a targeting. cold robot, essentially a slave of her lover the reverend - who,. in his turn, coldly calculated on that she would confess and go to jail for the killings (see Knutby murder at Wikipedia for this amazing case). If the neighbour had died too, the scheme might have hit home....Of course that girl was in a half-psychotic state, living in a realm of erotic and religious hypnosis, but she was not unintelligent; her testimonies during the trial were very cohesive and detailed, and could be confirmed.

Offhand, i cannot think of anything that Dragon is capable of asking me to do that i would refuse. He has never chosen to share me with anyone, we have the same hard limits (minors, animals, snuff, scat), so in a certain sense i could call myself a no-limits slave.

All that being said, if Dragon told me to step in front of a bus, i would say
"Respectfully, Sir, fuck you." But that feeds back into the first line of this post, it is something that he would not ask of me.

rose

These two post serve to illustrate the reason why I doubt that a no-limit slave exist in a healty relationship.

Dragon and Muse have a healthy relationship. She trusts him implicitly because she knows that he has her, and their, best interests at heart. She thus will do anything he asks her to do, knowing that he will not ask aanything of her that she would not do.

The example that luoise posted is an example of brain washing and a level of control that is not healthy. The man in this relationship took advantage of his position to turn the woman into a robot. This was done deliberately and without any concern for her well being. He then used her to accomplish his purposes.

Healthy relationships are always Safe, Sane, and Consensual.

[caligirl{Rob}]

big huggles to Rhabbi for beginning this interesting thread...i am one that always runs from labels as well as i would pick parts of each level and find some things i thought were missing entirely and tomorrow would probably feel differently...for all parties involved are continually changing and growing, learning and exploring, we move forward at times by moving back, so while i would not want to be labeled as being in one particular level, i am interested in the different views...*smiles* as in all of life an alternate lifestyle is still made up of diverse people and thoughts...

huggles again!
cali

[Eponine]

Offhand, i cannot think of anything that Dragon is capable of asking me to do that i would refuse. He has never chosen to share me with anyone, we have the same hard limits (minors, animals, snuff, scat), so in a certain sense i could call myself a no-limits slave.

All that being said, if Dragon told me to step in front of a bus, i would say
"Respectfully, Sir, fuck you." But that feeds back into the first line of this post, it is something that he would not ask of me.

rose

Yes!! That's exactly what I mean, and how I think...
so maybe this is getting into semantics now...
what does "truly limitless" mean?
I would consider, and Dragon's muse calls herself a no-limits slave... but
the point is ... okay... the master and slave have the same limits... because they love each other...sorry i'm repeating myself now...

But I was also thinking about how some of these "levels" use the word "consensual" whereas others don't... which struck me odd because it's all consensual... lol...

So, yeah, there are definitely flaws with the levels, but again, Rhabbi, thanks for stimulating some dialogue.