Very worried that current bdsm is caused by past abuse

[spike]

What if both apply?

Maybe, to deal with this situation, some psychaitric help would be appropriate. Jungian psychology is based on the integration of the whole personality including the dark side. So a Jungian may be best. Or perhaps a Transactional Analysis/Script Theory type who will analyse in terms of script and antiscript.

But the end result is the same thing I said before: accept yourself, take joy from yourself, all of yourself. And you can start doing that immediately without any expensive help.

Spike

[mythicat]

Look in the mirror and repeat after me:

"I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough, and Doggone It, People Like Me!"
-Stuart Smalley



If you're going to fret about it, counseling (probably) wouldn't hurt. Personally speaking, I think that you come across as remarkably sane for all that you've gone through. Perhaps your underlying submissive nature helped you survive more mentally intact than you might have otherwise. It could very well have been a hidden blessing.

[duktig flicka]

Thank you, masterkurt, mythicat and spike. I'm going to do my best to take your advice.

duktig flicka = capable girl ?

I'm so impressed!

Personally speaking, I think that you come across as remarkably sane for all that you've gone through.

I'm going to take that as a huge compliment. Watch out, though! Everyone appears sane when you first meet them.

[mythicat]

I'm going to take that as a huge compliment. Watch out, though! Everyone appears sane when you first meet them.

Not everyone...

Of course, my own sanity having oft been brought into question, my assessment of anyone else's could be WAY off!

[AndrewBlack]

I agree with Pandora's Box, there is not much to be gained by the older psychological approaches of asking 'why am I this way?' and analysing your past ad nauseam, we're all the way we are because of what's happened to us. I can only speak from personnal experience here and frankly I think most psychotherapies are of very little use for any 'deviant sexual tendencies' . I have not suffered previous experiences on the level that you have. Again, like Pandora's Box says, it's more important to know who you are now and what you need and want. If you crave something and it dosen't lead to any harm ( to you or anyone else ), have it, and if it satisfies you then great. I used to spend time wondering if things I did, or wanted to do, were 'wrong' or wanted them because there was something 'wrong' with me. Since I abandoned seeking a cause for the way I am and considered that other people may well accept me for it ( I don't have any major antisocial tendencies I don't think ) I've had a fucking great time. I spent/wasted a lot of my early adulthood, reading a lot of books, I've studied psychology and psychiatry and none of it helped me, it just made me feel I had a disease.

From the point of view of your terrible personnal experience, it sounds horrendous, but you sound like you've really moved on a long way.

I would ask you; Where are you at now? Are you really 'exploiting' your boyfriend do you treat him badly? What does he get out of it? Do you feel satisfied with it and does he and if not, what is unsatisfying ? If it turns you on, why do you think it's bad? Do you actually want to 'get rid of it' ( I assume you are talking about BDSM in your life here ) ?

[PopeRozen]

Hey duktig, everyone,

Great thread, lots of good insights. My subbie has had some similar experiences happen to her. Not only with her father, but with some of her other "masters" and "lovers" (an even MORE contradictory term) have done some equitably horrible things to her.

I know she has always had a fascination with BDSM, even from a pre-pubescent age. I personally think that some of her traumatizing experiences made her feel less intimidated by fetish. After all, she viewed them as consentual and enjoying themselves so she never categorized BDSM with abuse/trauma.

Its odd that you are attracted to play similar to your abuse. Whenever I am with my pet and I do something similar to her abuse, it triggers a panic attack and I have to stop the scene and make sure she feels better. Even when just having sex, once I was humping her in a way that reminded her of an abusive lover and she began screaming "Stop, No!" (for REAL) and crying. We talked about it and I learned the source of her anxiety.

Oh, by the way, masterkurt wrote:
"Excellence can be achieved only thru hard work and sufference ... but true passion drives you ahead..."

I would have used the word "sacrifice" instead of "sufference," but man I agree TOTALLY!

Find your Peace,
Pope.

[punksub]

I am really, really, really dying to know what psychological effect bdsm has on a person. Is it harmful? Is it therapeutic? None of the above? Am I exploiting my boyfriend for the sake of vain self-loathing by taking part in it with him? Would it be possible to "get rid of it" and start enjoying vanilla sex? Or is it just harmless fun?
.

my past history is very similar to yours and am a psychology major. bdsm in general is not harmful when kept sane safe and consensual. i have found bdsm to be very theraputic. My father was extremely abusive, physically and verbally and the things that hated are now some of the things take most pleasure in such as being hurt or verbally degraded. Since i have met my Mistress i have been able to come to terms with very many things that have happened. for me....i have had certain flashbacks in the middle of a scene which can be a very scary thing for the sub or the Dom/Domme. It seems to be a really bad thing to happen but these flashbacks for me have been repressed memories. After acknowledging these memories without trying to, i have been able to come closer and closer to not letting anything that has happened to me effect my thoughts in anyway. i have made sure the my Mistress knows of these things so She knows that there is a possibility to encounter these. It is good that your Dom/Domme know about your background especially if you were abused in any way. I hope any of this helps you.

[Chuckdom19]

I need to get some things off my chest in order to be able to ask a question I really need to ask. These have always been deep, dark secrets that I have not shared with anyone - except for my boyfriend in a very vague manner - so please forgive me if I'm not handling this appropriately.

The basic question is twofold: Why do I enjoy bdsm and is it harming me? Then there's the background. My dad was very sadistic and had a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde personality. He was prone to losing his temper out of the blue, at which time he became violent towards me and did humiliating things like throwing me to the floor and pinning my face down with his foot.

I was also pretty isolated growing up. I had to be home-schooled as I was training as a pre-professional ballet dancer full time since I was 8. You may or may not know that the ballet industry endorses teachers and directors to verbally and emotionally abuse dancers constantly. Less than perfection in performance and appearance was not tolerated and anyone who came over 105-110 lbs at the weekly public weigh-ins could look forward to several weeks of hell till she shed that fat.

As such, every male I saw when I was growing up was sadistic and every female was destroying herself to please them. Neat role models.

I would say it is highly improbable that this history and my desire to be dominated, humiliated and hurt are unconnected. The kind of things that turn me on often emulate my unpleasant past experiences. However, I don't actually know this, which is driving me insane. I'm hoping someone might have some insight on that. From a biopsychological point of view, it makes sense - children have a survival instinct to mold themselves to what their parents wish them to be in order to ensure that their parents take care of them. See also Stockholm Syndrome.

Also, an experience in adulthood appears to have affected my turn-ons. I was held prisoner for a year by a man who took my virginity and disciplined me very bdsm style (minus the consent). His main tactic was to shut me in a box when I was not obedient. I have since developed a fantasy for being kept in a cage. Coincidence? Possibly, since I get a bit of a panic attack whenever I see a suitably sized box and that's definitely no turn-on.

I am really, really, really dying to know what psychological effect bdsm has on a person. Is it harmful? Is it therapeutic? None of the above? Am I exploiting my boyfriend for the sake of vain self-loathing by taking part in it with him? Would it be possible to "get rid of it" and start enjoying vanilla sex? Or is it just harmless fun?

Sorry for airing dirty laundry. I just can't keep this down any longer. I need answers.

This is the place to air it! Lots of intelligent, sympathetic ears around here... and folks who won't judge.

Let me tell my story. No abuse, 12 years of parochial education, loving spouse. BDSM is in my life because it attracted me. I like being domme'd now and again; is it because the nuns whacked my knuckles? don't know, but I doubt it. My wife was 12 years publicly educated, and her dad was a minister his whole life. She likes to switch, sometimes top, sometimes bottom, like me.

You ran into some bad, horrible, intolerable experiences. I'm sure a therapist could give you gentle, understanding assistance; there's no shame in getting medical help.

Can you "get rid of it"? Likely, you could change your lifestyle. Likely you could change your friends. Would you be happy? Maybe so. But it's kind of like loving a certain kind of candy. You can go months, years without it. But get half a chance to get that candy and you'll grab it eagerly. You might just be causing trouble for yourself in the future.

Are you in a safe, positive relationship now? If so, why not live your life the way you want to? There are thousands of good, safe, loving relationships for each bad one --- much like everything in life. Once you realize that out of every hundred people, 98 are folks who work every day, don't kick their dogs or beat their partners, pay their taxes on time, and are folks who would lose at poker and pay up with a smile. The other 2 of the hundred make so much trouble that they make you forget about the 98. Live your life as you wish, dear heart. Get the help you need from a minister or a councillor; you may have more favorable results from a professional though, for obvious reasons (smile).

Please; if you need to talk further, do. Your need is real.

[Spitman]

The basic question is twofold: Why do I enjoy bdsm and is it harming me? Then there's the background. My dad was very sadistic and had a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde personality. He was prone to losing his temper out of the blue, at which time he became violent towards me and did humiliating things like throwing me to the floor and pinning my face down with his foot.

I am really, really, really dying to know what psychological effect bdsm has on a person. Is it harmful? Is it therapeutic? None of the above? Am I exploiting my boyfriend for the sake of vain self-loathing by taking part in it with him? Would it be possible to "get rid of it" and start enjoying vanilla sex? Or is it just harmless fun?

My own experience was one of discovery during my early life. I remember enjoying games of cowboys and indians where a girl got tied up, long before I knew anything about sex. There was nothing in my family background that explains my predilection for bondage. The first time I experienced sexual pleasure was while climbing a rope. That was a coincidence. Spending most of my adolescence out of contact with girls led to experimentation with self bondage, but I might have done it anyway. It taught me a lot about the way physical sensations and fantasies can enhance sexual experiences. I do not feel that I have to mistreat women. Rather I enjoy teasing them with fantasies and sensations. I have always enjoyed 'vanilla' sex. I just find that the other kind is more satisfying in every way.

The other replies in this section tell much the same story. It seems that most of us are this way because we are, not because someone or something made us so. Also I have found that many people in the vanilla world out there enjoy bdsm just as much. They just lack the knowledge and creative imagination to dream it up for themselves. They respond just as powerfully to bdsm fantasies. I think some of the fantasy themes resonate deep in our minds because of associations that go back to early human history.

I know that there are people who feel the need to be treated in a particular way because they were abused, and blame themselves for that. They want to be hurt, sometimes they harm themselves physically and may be suicidal. I have encountered women who wanted to be abused in internet role play and admitted to having been abused in real life. There are people who want to be humiliated because they don't feel they deserve any better. It may seem that they can't enjoy sex without it. I have had many personal accounts of this kind. I cannot prove that there was no psychological or other predisposition, but I do not believe that victims should blame themselves.

I see a major difference between the kind of humiliating and demeaning treatment that converts a sub into a mere creature of the dom while repressing her own personality completely, and mutual loving, caring enjoyment of bdsm fantasy and psychologically enhanced stimulation. For me bdsm is something to be enjoyed with mutual respect and understanding, and it is about understanding the physical and psychological triggers that enhance the sexual satisfaction of the partner.

Others have said that the why is unimportant, it is what you are that matters. My view is that if bdsm enhances your enjoyment of sex, that is sufficient reason to do it. If your partner wants to please you, like anyone in a vanilla sexual relationship, teach him how. Do not go through the rest of your life feeling deprived of the kind of satisfaction you want.

[Eraser]

http://www.arizonapowerexchange.org/academia.htm

I would recommend everyone read the power dynamic essays and the apex survey on this site, they are both very interesting. One of the the commonality's I did find in each was a range of about 80% women who had been abused or raped that THEY felt was a foundation of there BDSM practices.

One of the things to consider in the application of past abuse = current BDSM interest is to think of Pavlovian conditioned response and the second is Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. Upbringing is strong conditioning, if that conditioning included abuse then it may have set the ground work for your interest now. But your interest now is not abuse, its something totally different and not to be viewed in the same light at all. I would (as had been said many many times before this) recommend PROFESSIONAL help if you feel that your past abuse is currently effecting your sexuality. If your in Southern California I know to Therapist that are very BDSM friendly.

[Chuckdom19]

My own experience was
(snip)
satisfaction you want.

Very well stated.

[Flogger]

Sorry to argue with you, but do you really think that 3-year-olds take up ballet because they understand what it's going to be like for them and the idea makes them hot?

I truly sympathize with the plight of very young children being placed in a position by their parents who for what ever reason think they need to be famous and have no consideration for the long term problems they are causing these kids.

Not only dance, but olympics, sports and acting to name just a few.

Adolescents place enough problems on themselves to fit in without help from parents. But in todays society where models and the visible people are so far from the norm, we have been conditioned to believe this is what we should be. Personally, my opinion is this: If the guy in the mirror is happy with who I am, to hell with anyone who isn't. It took therepy to reach this conclusion and while it may not be right for everybody, it's right for me.

Lastly I wish for you only happiness and the ability to accept yourself for who you are.

[sweet_candle]

Thank for having shared with us your deep, dark secrets.
I've read your post very thoroughly; as a new-bye in this "very worried that current bdsm..." thread it took me a bit of time to write down an answer, but I'd like to put on the table some remarkable points.
Please forgive my rusty English speech, I am an Italian.

Let's start from what you've ran through in your life. Hard to bear. But you have survived.
This is, I think, a common rule of every kind of living: survive, survive, survive -a must in nature-!

So, now you act like you cannot help to live again the extreme experience you have escaped. A lot of people, having passed-by car accidents or other close-to-death troubles, have joined extreme or hard-endeavouring sports, maybe to live again strong emotionals feedbacks.
Every wound you take (both phisical and psycological) starts a response: the body make scars, trying to repair injured tissues or bones, the brain the same. In the common life you can see that every day. If needed, the body and the mind work aside to change their status and comply the environment: out from the skin this results in a temperature rise, a modify of the heart pulse or an increse in the water retention.

When you get a trauma, there is a new environment. Fear is the quickest way to alert you there is a brand-new situation, and it's dangerous. Pain is the flag to point that something has changed in a nasty way.
The inner of you realizes it very quickly, and try to adapt.
Aside the body, the mind urges to fix patches over every wound it has suffered, by developing its own structures and using them to protect itself, preventing damages by new blows. I think that's the main difference: the body can repair a damage, while the mind can repair and make up a sort of draft "preventive defense" against a new strike.
Every trauma can induce ("negative" and "positive" are used just as tag, with no moral value):

-a negative response [or "internal" reaction]: the subject falls deep in the fathom of himself, imploding the stress toward inside, and cutting relations with the external world, to avoid to live again the trauma

-a positive response [or "external" reaction]: the subject uses the experience to create a new system of values, that can be used again -if needed-, to survive again, better and in a more effective way the trauma

"During peace time, warriors struggle against themselves" (Nietzsche).

You have faced the beast. You won. Now it's hard to go back home and live family life. Simply, you can't. So, here you are the need to play bdsm.
Sorry, I don't think it' s possible to go back -just live it and enjoy it-. There's nothing wrong, if SSC. You don't harm anyone.

Reviewing your several postings, it seems that you have the attitude to share your story. You have written quite several excerpts, so you feel the need to talk about it and spread out what you have inside, also to cast in a frame all your experiences.
Maybe you can nurtur the art of writing...

:goldcup:

I need to get some things off my chest in order to be able to ask a question I really need to ask. These have always been deep, dark secrets that I have not shared with anyone - except for my boyfriend in a very vague manner - so please forgive me if I'm not handling this appropriately.

The basic question is twofold: Why do I enjoy bdsm and is it harming me? Then there's the background. My dad was very sadistic and had a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde personality. He was prone to losing his temper out of the blue, at which time he became violent towards me and did humiliating things like throwing me to the floor and pinning my face down with his foot.

I was also pretty isolated growing up. I had to be home-schooled as I was training as a pre-professional ballet dancer full time since I was 8. You may or may not know that the ballet industry endorses teachers and directors to verbally and emotionally abuse dancers constantly. Less than perfection in performance and appearance was not tolerated and anyone who came over 105-110 lbs at the weekly public weigh-ins could look forward to several weeks of hell till she shed that fat.

As such, every male I saw when I was growing up was sadistic and every female was destroying herself to please them. Neat role models.

I would say it is highly improbable that this history and my desire to be dominated, humiliated and hurt are unconnected. The kind of things that turn me on often emulate my unpleasant past experiences. However, I don't actually know this, which is driving me insane. I'm hoping someone might have some insight on that. From a biopsychological point of view, it makes sense - children have a survival instinct to mold themselves to what their parents wish them to be in order to ensure that their parents take care of them. See also Stockholm Syndrome.

Also, an experience in adulthood appears to have affected my turn-ons. I was held prisoner for a year by a man who took my virginity and disciplined me very bdsm style (minus the consent). His main tactic was to shut me in a box when I was not obedient. I have since developed a fantasy for being kept in a cage. Coincidence? Possibly, since I get a bit of a panic attack whenever I see a suitably sized box and that's definitely no turn-on.

I am really, really, really dying to know what psychological effect bdsm has on a person. Is it harmful? Is it therapeutic? None of the above? Am I exploiting my boyfriend for the sake of vain self-loathing by taking part in it with him? Would it be possible to "get rid of it" and start enjoying vanilla sex? Or is it just harmless fun?

Sorry for airing dirty laundry. I just can't keep this down any longer. I need answers.

[magicalnymph]

I can only speak for myself as I come from a very abusive childhood. I am an introvert by nature. So I am always looking for why I am who I am. And I do agree that life is much easier when one just accepts who they are instead of questioning it. Took me a lot of years to realize that. I have a degree in Psychology, which I can say is directly related to my trying to understand the past and the effects of it.

As I said I can only speak for myself...but I have asked myself many times if there was a connection between the past and my enjoyment in BDSM. The only connection for myself is that the past affects my limits. For me that means I have some limits that are harder to push and such. I want to enjoy myself not take myself back to that place. (hope ya understand what I mean). I can see the line between BDSM and abuse. My past helps me with that as well as my schooling and my understanding of BDSM. I did not learn submission from the abuse. I learn to hate. If anything the abuse taught me to be stronger in my mind. To respect myself more and to never be anyones doormat. I am not saying I haven't made mistakes along the way or that there haven't been times I fell into those old patterns. But the connection between the past abuse and BDSM is lost in the consent. You survived the past .You choose the future.

Thats just my opinion and well you know what they say.

[Uvas]

Mobius,

The name of that book is "Perfect Victim".

The girl was truly submissive. Even at the guy's trail, she didn't act upset or angry at the guy.

[bug]

juicy thoughts i ponder as i see that S/some have done some research. this makes me happy that A/all that participated were happy with topic of conversation and i offer my apology to T/those it may have offended.

a Friend of mine and i were discussing this forum discussion yesterday and W/we have come with the solution that most BDSM interests stem from abuse and i would like to encourage those W/whom have not suffered abuse of this kind that W/we have spoke of these last few days, to come forward and explain why T/they have fantasies about this. *smiles*

then maybe W/we can notice what W/we don't notice *winks*

thankies A/all this have given me more enlightenment to my own individual understandings and workings *nodnod*

[learningtopleez]

a Friend of mine and i were discussing this forum discussion yesterday and W/we have come with the solution that most BDSM interests stem from abuse and i would like to encourage those W/whom have not suffered abuse of this kind that W/we have spoke of these last few days, to come forward and explain why T/they have fantasies about this. *smiles*

then maybe W/we can notice what W/we don't notice *winks*

thankies A/all this have given me more enlightenment to my own individual understandings and workings *nodnod*

I think that is a great idea bug!! If we can begin to notice what we don't notice then perhaps we can begin to notice what is shaping our thoughts and deeds!

I guess life is a continuous learning process after all!

~ltp~

[RhondaLee]

Since the original question has been answered, I like to hijack this thread for a related question.

I was also abused when I was young, and because of that, I grow like the idea of BDSM. As a result, for relationship purpose, I only like people within the BDSM circle. Conventional sex and foreplay does not arouses me.

The regular friends that I met who are NOT into BDSM are decent, nice regular folks with great personality who is happy with conventional sex. If I am not into BDSM, I would have date these people.

But all the BDSM people that I met are all trashy, whackhead, some are abusive, none of them have decent personality.

However, as far as sex is concerned, I have to date people in our BDSM circle. Should I continue to dig for a future someone who is a nice person also into bDSM? Or withdraw the idea and find a regular person?

ANother idea is to find a nice person and either introduce him/her into BDSM. But if that person is not interested, then a few months of time is wasted.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

The regular friends that I met who are NOT into BDSM are decent, nice regular folks with great personality who is happy with conventional sex. If I am not into BDSM, I would have date these people.

But all the BDSM people that I met are all trashy, whackhead, some are abusive, none of them have decent personality.

I'd say you need a new circle of friends.

[Dngnkeeper]

But all the BDSM people that I met are all trashy, whackhead, some are abusive, none of them have decent personality.

ANother idea is to find a nice person and either introduce him/her into BDSM. But if that person is not interested, then a few months of time is wasted.

Rhonda this puzzles me. In the thirty years I have been involved with BDSM the people you discribe make up a small minority of the thousands I have met in the lifestyle. So it seems odd the all of the people you have met with BDSM interests fall into this catagory. As you dont indicate your location or where you have been meeting prospective partners its hard to explain this as it is the opposite of my experiences.

However, as far as sex is concerned, I have to date people in our BDSM circle. Should I continue to dig for a future someone who is a nice person also into bDSM? Or withdraw the idea and find a regular person?

Well thats up to you but if you continue to look for those with BDSM interests you certinally need to change your approach.

ANother idea is to find a nice person and either introduce him/her into BDSM. But if that person is not interested, then a few months of time is wasted.

This can work too. There are several threads here on the topic. But if you are interested in instant gratification you may just be disapointed in any person you meet.

[ProjectEuropa]

Rhonda this puzzles me. In the thirty years I have been involved with BDSM the people you discribe make up a small minority of the thousands I have met in the lifestyle.

I don't have your experience Dngnkeeper but as someone who stumbled into BDSM and was ripe for being found a fool, I have to say I have never stumbled over what Rhondalee goes onto describe 'But all the BDSM people that I met are all trashy, whackhead, some are abusive, none of them have decent personality.' On the whole I would say I have found the BDSM community as a cross section more positive than the a cross section of the population as a whole. Of course you come across characters you don't like but it's impossible to like everybody.

[Wontworry]

Stick around, RhondaLee, and I am sure you will find that most people here are about as 'normal' as they come. While I don't have the experience of many of the members, the number of idiots I have met on this site I could count on the fingers of one hand. The vast majority here are decent people following their particular kink.

So to answer your question, I strongly advise waiting for the "future someone who is a nice person also into BDSM".

[Barton]

The old are they" real or just wannabees" question. For the most part you will find that most people who are into BDSM are a pretty above average bunch. We communicate well, we show a lot of respect in our dealings with each other, in fact we are pretty easy to get along with. If you have not found people such as this, then you do need to look elsewhere. To fully appreaciate this lifestyle you need to find people who can earn your trust and respect. They are out there.

[lillianskye]

[QUOTE=duktig flicka]I need to get some things off my chest in order to be able to ask a question I really need to ask. These have always been deep, dark secrets that I have not shared with anyone - except for my boyfriend in a very vague manner - so please forgive me if I'm not handling this appropriately.

Duktig,

I was abused as a child too. My bondage fantasies began long before the abuse. For instance, I have always loved being scared. I was watching that chessy horror flick waxworks and the part with the Marquis de Sad come on. That was it for me. I was 7. I think the problem you are having is that people believe it is impossible for a person to suffer abuse and come out with a healthy view on sexuality. I am here to tell you that is a myth. I think the part you are missing is that Bdsm is suppose to be fun. At least in my opinion it's just a game. I want a guy who can PLAY dangerous in bed but is a teddy bear in real life. I think that is pretty normal.

If you needed me to pin point for you some psychological reasoning behind my affinity for this lifestyle, I am more incline to believe its the fact I was a preacher's daughter. Or perhaps its because I am a control freak. Either way I don't think it really matters. What matters is being comfortable with who you are, and finding someone who you are comfortable with too.

I hope I don't offend anyone. This is just my view. I hope it helps.

[slavelucy]

I want a guy who can PLAY dangerous in bed but is a teddy bear in real life. I think that is pretty normal.

Hmmm, i have increasingly come to wonder if that's possible actually. i have known some really nice vanilla guys..but they just cannot get into BDSM...equally Wontworry (my Dom, lover and all round friend) is great, both DS wise and otherwise, he's loving, laid back and lots of fun...but i'm still not sure he could ever be aptly described as a 'teddy bear'...because in the end, he's still dominant, if he wasn't, he wouldn't be a good dominant. (sounds ridiculously simplistic i know, but i really mean it)

hope I don't offend anyone.

Whilst i might not agree with you, you certainly haven't offended me, it's interesting to hear about how other people see BDSM fitting into their lives, and it's what makes it so diverse.

(Although you may have offended the Marquis by calling him sad! LOL)

Welcome to the forums btw, nice to have you on board.

sl

[Caitlin]

Duktig flicka

Reading your story has really touched me. Let’s get to basics. Nature Vs. Nurture. Are we the way we are due to some sort of genetic imprinting as is shown by studies of identical twins separated at birth; or are we the way we are due to the environment in which we live.

Are you the way you are because of genetic imprinting or because of the environment in which you lived, or both. I would go for both. You have not mentioned your mother. Was she submissive to your father, and then to your instructors/teachers? Did she try to protect you from their abuse? I think not. Or not to an extent that it made a difference.

The amount of abuse you suffered throughout your formative years is astrominical. First Dad, then Dad and your instructors and the whole psyche behind the ballet business, then your rapist/abductor.

Stockholm syndrome is where victims of a kidnapping, or people taken as hostages develop a relationship with their captors, and they may also help the captors to achieve their goals or to escape the police. In order to survive, the victim attempts to relate to the captor/kidnapper to gain their sympathy. While this may apply to your rapist/abductor, it would not apply to your father and instructors.

Analytical psychosocial professionals cannot agree as to the reason why we do the things we do, but all would correlate early abuse to BDSM. Those who say that even though they are into BDSM and were never abused, there is the fear factor. It’s a part of our survival instincts. It also counts for the success of crime shows on TV. I could go on, but I’m digressing.

Any way back to basics. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. However, we know also that we can condition animals as well as people to act in certain ways. Pavlov’s Theory. Dogs learnt to salivate when the light was turned on, or they would not be fed. Mice were stimulated in a particular cage, and after a while they could only have sex in the cage they had been having the sexual stimulation.

Which leads us to Cause and Effect. You were abused, and you had a desire to please. It is a natural progression that you used the abuse as a stimulus, and you felt gratification at being able to please them.

Is BDSM harmful or therapeutic? It could be harmful if you were with the wrong Dom. Only you can tell if you are gaining any therapeutic value out of BDSM. As for your fear that you may be exploiting your boyfriend, talk to him. You said you vaguely talked about your dark secrets. Lack of communication is the major factor on the breakdown of relationships. When you feel you are ready to talk to him about your feelings do so. Remember you don’t have to hit him with everything all at once. If after you tell him and he doesn’t love and respect you afterwards, then you may have to decide if he is worth your time or love in the first place.

Remember to love yourself for the person who you are.

Caitlin

[Locked Advantages]

From my opinion

I hear many people telling me most vanilla friends that I have saying I go for BDSM since I haven't had the best childhood or that I was raped....but honestly I know what I am....that is intelligent, strong enough to submit, but I also learned from situations that made me stronger I won't let myself get into that type of situation that I've been in once again. I was just reading some of the responses here...BDSM might be somewhat from my childhood, but I don't do it because I've been hurt...I do it because the submission is a part of me. With my former dominant it gave me more confidence. I think when people tell me its from abuse, that is from ignorance on their part...all I know is what I desire and love about myself

Sarah

[spankinsue]

Sarah,

I know that for me bdsm is not related to any "bad" history. I had an idyllic childhood. Totally normal. Very vanilla. I married the only guy I had slept with at 20. We were happy for 17 years and had fun playing with bondage and spanking etc. I am a very take charge type of woman. It's great to have someone you can trust enough to give over your fate to. Personally I don't think you can have such a great dom/sub relationship unless you are pretty well adjusted. To be able to trust like that takes faith in yourself and the other person.

In my job I see alot of really messed up people, and I can say with complete certainty the people on this site are much happier and well adjust than average.

[alura]

Although I was sexually abused from the time I was nine years old (earlier, actually, but it was very brief and fleeting...not like the other was...which is what really, pardon the french, fucked me up for years), I feel that one has nothing to do with the other. Or it shouldn't.

In my case, as you can read in my bio, I was writing erotic stories from a VERY young age, 3 years before my ninth birthday...maybe even younger than that. And they were always dom/sub stories, though I didn't know the distinction at the time. Before I could write, it was pictures of the same; I can remember drawing them; though luckily I wasn't anatomically accurate enough for them to ever figure out what I was really putting down on paper.

Whenever I have been with someone in what everyone keeps calling a 'vanilla' relationship (STILL can't figure that one out) during the actual act, I 'go away' completely.

The only time I ever had a real sexual arousal was when I was writing my 'stories'. It was then that I couldn't keep my hands off my ex; and if he wasn't around, my hands off myself.

The only other time I have ever felt that way is on this site. Finding out who and what i really was...and what I really longed for. Now I only have to think of this site...and the life I hope to someday live for real.....and the same feeling happens.

So for me, despite the fact that I walk around excited all the time/damned inconvenient when you're trying to add a column of figures; this place was my 'awakening' to both [1] a lifetime of denial and [2] that real happiness was no longer just an elusive dream for me....but a someday, very real truth.

I need to get some things off my chest in order to be able to ask a question I really need to ask. These have always been deep, dark secrets that I have not shared with anyone - except for my boyfriend in a very vague manner - so please forgive me if I'm not handling this appropriately.

The basic question is twofold: Why do I enjoy bdsm and is it harming me? Then there's the background. My dad was very sadistic and had a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde personality. He was prone to losing his temper out of the blue, at which time he became violent towards me and did humiliating things like throwing me to the floor and pinning my face down with his foot.

I was also pretty isolated growing up. I had to be home-schooled as I was training as a pre-professional ballet dancer full time since I was 8. You may or may not know that the ballet industry endorses teachers and directors to verbally and emotionally abuse dancers constantly. Less than perfection in performance and appearance was not tolerated and anyone who came over 105-110 lbs at the weekly public weigh-ins could look forward to several weeks of hell till she shed that fat.

As such, every male I saw when I was growing up was sadistic and every female was destroying herself to please them. Neat role models.

I would say it is highly improbable that this history and my desire to be dominated, humiliated and hurt are unconnected. The kind of things that turn me on often emulate my unpleasant past experiences. However, I don't actually know this, which is driving me insane. I'm hoping someone might have some insight on that. From a biopsychological point of view, it makes sense - children have a survival instinct to mold themselves to what their parents wish them to be in order to ensure that their parents take care of them. See also Stockholm Syndrome.

Also, an experience in adulthood appears to have affected my turn-ons. I was held prisoner for a year by a man who took my virginity and disciplined me very bdsm style (minus the consent). His main tactic was to shut me in a box when I was not obedient. I have since developed a fantasy for being kept in a cage. Coincidence? Possibly, since I get a bit of a panic attack whenever I see a suitably sized box and that's definitely no turn-on.

I am really, really, really dying to know what psychological effect bdsm has on a person. Is it harmful? Is it therapeutic? None of the above? Am I exploiting my boyfriend for the sake of vain self-loathing by taking part in it with him? Would it be possible to "get rid of it" and start enjoying vanilla sex? Or is it just harmless fun?

Sorry for airing dirty laundry. I just can't keep this down any longer. I need answers.

[lillianskye]

I just wanted to add a thought here.

IT seems to me that it would make more sense that if a person is born with a presdispostion to being submissive, that would make them more valunerable to abuse. Aren't abusive people amazingly empathic when it serves their purpose of manipulating others? ISn't that why society refers to molestors as "sexual predators"? They just know a child that wants to please authority figures, and they know what buttons to push to make that child do what they want. Even in physical abuse or verbal, the same scenario is playing itself out. The abuser has to find a person who is valunerable enough to take the abuse. In childhood, it is a lot easier, because ALL children want to please authority figures and ALL children are extremely weak in comparison to adults. (I mean inregards to influence from adults.)

I think the reason why so many BDSMers struggle with this very question is because most of us became "aware" very early. I don't think (at least personally) that it is the abuse itself that messes with a person's head, it is the extent of your understanding about what is REALLY going on. ie the abuser's motivations, awareness of the manipulation, awareness of induced guilt by the abuser, etc....

The point I am desperately trying to make is the more intelligent, the more passsive, the more aware a child is the more susceptible that child becomes to abuse. In my dealings with other like minded people, I have found that the above criteria is very common among the BDSM community.

The reason I believe people are drawn to BDSM is because it fulfills sexual arousal on many many different levels. The more aware of yourself you are, the more levels a sexual partner has to "touch" to truely satisfy.