The case of the disappearing threads

[_ID_]

I would like to make a formal request without soundling like I am 'whining' or complaining, or flamning or any other such view that might be seen as hating the changes here.

Could the admin cease deleting entire threads? Single posts that violate the rules I can understand, but it seems a bit totalitarian to be deleting entire threads for a single post, or string of posts that are heated, but haven't violated the rules of the form.

Even if these threads are thoughts from the members about the admin. Removing the thread removes your chance as admin to tell the rest of the members how you feel about a particular subject.

That is all

[thrall]

here, here........

I was looking for several threads, and see that they are now gone..........It is very disturbing to me. In the past controversial threads were closed.......not deleted.

it feels to me rather like .............1984, goodthink badthink

and i am sad



and im really wondering if this thread is going to last................lol

[angelic.zest]

hmm maybe there was a valid reason why those threads were deleted, maybe something other then what you all are thinking, there are always going to be ppl who wants to "stir that pot" by looking for something that problaly needs to be deleted or closed to keep from, why dont we just forget about it and move on but maybe i shouldn't say that, that might be taken out of text...

[thrall]

Then I have a two specific question Zest........

Why is Torq's "need suggestions" thread gone, where he is openly asking for comments

and why is John56's first good by thread gone............


How were either of these threads controversial???

One was Torq's own thread and the other was a personal good by

[Guest 91108]

Good bye threads are never good threads. that is just fact. several boards i am on they get one post and then are closed.
comment off board.

i have no idea of other threads since things probably happened after I signed off and went to sleep.

[thrall]

WS

John56's goodbye was gone in less then 5 minutes after posting..........im sorry

[Torq]

Hello all,

And a some quick responses:

ID: IF a post or wo can be pulled and the thread is still viable, O otherwise the thread will go.


Thrall: There is part of the issue and problem, when threads become "contraversial" or "jucieu" more and more crap is spun off from them, Hence they' going to go.


Angelic: THANK YOU couldn't have said it better myself !!

Thrall: My "Need suggec" thread has been moved to another area in Admin section, reason i was for suggestions for the new guidelines, hence its over with, If anyone wants comments and suggestions on new there is another thread in site announce area. And second the goodbye thread you speak of was no more than a "Pot-stirring" thread, it's gone.

Wolfscout: DITTO !! If folks are leaving I wish em well, but not here.

THANKS AGAIN for everyones comments always welcome common sense rational comments and suggestions. HOWEVER PLEASE note that goig forward the "Pot-Stiring",, "Juicey gossip" threads will NOT hang around, in no way is this censorship it is merely an attempt at some decorum, an rational thinking.

Be Well
T

[Polaris]

May I politely and without wanting to stir the pot ask what speaks against simply closing topics that are controversial and/or juicy? I appreciate the necessity to occasionally stop a subject from becoming destructive, but if the thread remained there (as long as there are no posts in it that go against the rules) for everyone to see...well, I believe it would look less like "censorship".

[annie]

Polaris,

From my experience here, even when a thread is closed, another thread is normally started to "respond" to something in the originial thread. Plus, reading something that is intended only to "pot stirring" has the same effect as just viewing the thread, weather a response option is available or not.

As the system gets better refined, etc. not all threads will be removed, just the posts that require such action. But, there will still be times, at the discretion of the Administration, that threads will be entirely removed, as was this case.

[Euryleia]

I'm coming out of lurkerdom to add my 2 cents.

I agree with Polaris--a final comment by the mgmt stating clearing why the thread is being closed and then locking it seems to be a better policy than removing it entirely.

Part of the controversy seems to be around the issue of transparency. Whenever people don't know why things are happening, they assume the worst. In a forum like this, with so many differing viewpoints, the worst is usually a fear of being silenced.

As a community, we value open and honest communication. Not being able to find it here, is disturbing and just adds to the feelings of mistrust and resistence that people naturally feel around change.

I do a lot of working for change with my clients and there are five lessons:
#1: Get started, no matter how much it hurts.
#2: Expect doubt. Just don't let it win.
#3: Reach out for advice AND follow it.
#4: Take opportunites to savor the fringe benefits of change.
#5: Be prudently flexible.

It looks to me that we are moving forward--Torq has done well and, working together, we can achieve wonders. My only plea is that we keep the dialogue open and respectful.

Thanks,
Euryleia

[Polaris]

Thanks for the reply, just_annie!

[Warbaby1943]

It looks to me that we are moving forward--Torq has done well and, working together, we can achieve wonders. My only plea is that we keep the dialogue open and respectful.

Thanks,
Euryleia

Sounds good in theory but in my opinion it appears that too many things could be judged as "stirring the pot" and be removed. When too many things are left up to the desecration of others there will always be disagreements. I think it much better to get it all out in the open with discussions then to have private conversations as to the whys and wherefores of the matter at hand.


After a cursory look at the new rules I found nothing wrong with them in theory. However, if threads can just disappear at the will of someone who doesn't like the subject matter then I believe there is something that needs to be corrected. Doesn't mean the first attempt at changing the rules are wrong, just means that maybe there needs to be some tuning up. However, censorship by any other name will always seem wrong to many of us.

[Torq]

Hello again,

A quick response the new guidelines are intended to "Lighten-up" things, not to make em tighter or surpress free dialoge. As far as moving threads, none are totally deleted (unless we push the wrong button,LOL) their moved to other areas, recycle an such.

Some staff convo's are in private and will remain that way. There are reasons for that, like personal items of members, etc.

I personally deplore censorship. But, moving or deleteing a thread is in no way shape or form censorship. And this convo has and i'm sure will continue, due to personal beliefs.

Want a real good laugh read a general Talk thread dated 08-01-2003 by kostly TRUELY AMAZEING !!!

http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/fo...=76&order=desc

And I actually remember some of those folks, back when Jinn had the site.
And today 10-03-2007,, four years later we're still having the same debate. Interesting!! LOL

BUT what was the bottom line result of that convo,, tempers heated and multiple people got banned. So what did it truely serve?? To me it was a shame. Lets TRY to relax a bit, let the new guidelines settle in HOPE for some good adult (maybe even BDSM) convos and see were we go.

Thanks again all,

Be Well
T

[DarkPoet]

As far as moving threads, none are totally deleted (unless we push the wrong button,LOL) their moved to other areas, recycle an such.

Just a quick idea, don't know if it would be practicable: maybe a "thread move announcement" thread somewhere in the site announcements would make sense and help people find things again (or safe them a fruitless search all through the forums, in case it has been made inaccessible for some reason). I have to admit that, in the short time I'm an active forum member, I've also experienced the bewilderment when a thread suddenly wasn't where I had seen it only five minutes before --- yes, I found them all again in a different subforum.

[Torq]

Hello DarkPoet,

Great Idea , Will work it up with mods asap.

TY

Be Well
T

[rach]

Thread deletion makes me feel very uncomfortable, It does seem to be a form of censorship. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it feels very arbitrary, and rather than creating a lighter atmosphere it might well lead to some distrust and suspicion amongst members.

I think there is a danger of stifling debate, and creating a Catch 22 situation with threads being deleted. Members may feel neither they or their opinion are valued- which isn't the climate you want to create, because as you've said you want input, and a vibrant site.

No disrespect intended.
rach

[Guest 91108]

While i've been here.. threads have been closed and left...
others read them that didn't get input.. or those who wished to continue.. and they pretty much started a new thread to carry on the same old "pot stirring" this is a case where moving a thread to a staff recycle section is appropriate considering some of the types we have on the board who can't take hints.


I see no problem with it as it is not censorship when it's been put out enough on various threads repeatedly.

[rach]

While i've been here.. threads have been closed and left...
others read them that didn't get input.. or those who wished to continue.. and they pretty much started a new thread to carry on the same old "pot stirring" this is a case where moving a thread to a staff recycle section is appropriate considering some of the types we have on the board who can't take hints.


I see no problem with it as it is not censorship when it's been put out enough on various threads repeatedly.

LOL you do have a point but if they can't take a hint they'll probably just start another thread anyway. I just feel deletion of threads sends out the wrong message. My suggestion would to close them and warn people if they continue. But there are as many opinions as people so it is probably one of those circular arguments I hate!

rach

[annie]

Bottom line folks... no matter how we handle it there will be discontent... every situation presents it's own catch 22 situation...

IF we move a thread out of site we are accused of censorship.

IF we leave the thread but close it we are accused of closing a good conversation. (Even when it is obvious that a "good conversation" had all ready ended in the thread.) Or as Wolf said, the entire mess is picked up again in another thread were the cycle is repeated and instead of everyone being upset with us once... now they are upset with us twice.

IF we do nothing then there are accusation of "flaming" from assorted sides.

IF we edit the post with the "flaming" then we didn't edit so and so and he started it...

Shall I continue or have you picked up the point?

There is no GREAT solution to this. Just as there is no SOLID definition of a flame.

We basically are like referee's at a sporting event. Sometimes people like the decisions we make, sometimes they don't. We are going to be called names, told we are being "unfair," etc. (Thankfully we can't be spit on in this format! lol) Or, if the decision goes the way you want we "made a right call," etc.

It is a no win situation and we are doing the best we can. There is no instant reply but we do try to learn from the daily game tapes....

*wonders off confuzzed by all of the sudden sports analogies in there... *

[Guest 91108]

Hugs annie just for trying so hard ... then runs off.

[annie]

*giggles* thanks Wolf!

[_ID_]

If good by threads are against the rules, you should have stated that in the rules Torq. Making this up as you go along is how the old rules got so convoluted in the first place.

Annie: my main problem with deleting threads is there were only two mentions of threads being deleted in the rules. If a thread is removed for either of those reasons, fine. However, deleting a thread because "it stirs the pot" wasn't in the rules, and therefore to me, isn't enough of a reason to delete something, as well it comes across as totalitarian and censorship, and when the reason for a thread being closed isn't viewable by the members, it could breed a bad vibe among the members that causes them to withhold participation in fear of posting something against the views of the admin.

The rules are there for both the members and the admin. There for us to post by, there for you to govern by. Please use the rules, and then we won't feel like we are being unjustly governed.

Hello all,

And a some quick responses:

ID: IF a post or wo can be pulled and the thread is still viable, O otherwise the thread will go.


Thrall: There is part of the issue and problem, when threads become "contraversial" or "jucieu" more and more crap is spun off from them, Hence they' going to go.


Angelic: THANK YOU couldn't have said it better myself !!

Thrall: My "Need suggec" thread has been moved to another area in Admin section, reason i was for suggestions for the new guidelines, hence its over with, If anyone wants comments and suggestions on new there is another thread in site announce area. And second the goodbye thread you speak of was no more than a "Pot-stirring" thread, it's gone.

Wolfscout: DITTO !! If folks are leaving I wish em well, but not here.

THANKS AGAIN for everyones comments always welcome common sense rational comments and suggestions. HOWEVER PLEASE note that goig forward the "Pot-Stiring",, "Juicey gossip" threads will NOT hang around, in no way is this censorship it is merely an attempt at some decorum, an rational thinking.

Be Well
T

[Torq]

Hello ID,

I never said goodbye threads were agaist the rules?????? So i'm a bit confused.??? Is there an issue now when I simply agree with another member???????

Be Well
T

[_ID_]

Torq: your response to thralls mention of John's good by thread, indicating it became a problem and had to go. The entire thread wasn't the problem, just one post, a post I pointed out, and as a result the thread was removed.

So the answer to your question: Goodbye thread stirs pot, stirred pot is problem, problem thread must be deleted. Because that is stated from you, and you are acting as admin when posting, it becomes a rule.

[Torq]

Hello ID,

Somewhere there seems to be some confusion. By NO means just because a mod or admin make a statement does it become a rule. The new GUIDELINES are in place, and IF needed they can be modified.

be Well
T

[annie]

If good by threads are against the rules, you should have stated that in the rules Torq. Making this up as you go along is how the old rules got so convoluted in the first place.

Annie: my main problem with deleting threads is there were only two mentions of threads being deleted in the rules. If a thread is removed for either of those reasons, fine. However, deleting a thread because "it stirs the pot" wasn't in the rules, and therefore to me, isn't enough of a reason to delete something, as well it comes across as totalitarian and censorship, and when the reason for a thread being closed isn't viewable by the members, it could breed a bad vibe among the members that causes them to withhold participation in fear of posting something against the views of the admin.

The rules are there for both the members and the admin. There for us to post by, there for you to govern by. Please use the rules, and then we won't feel like we are being unjustly governed.

No matter how the rules were written, how threads are moderated, or how the site is run some will never be happy. Which is sad in many ways but is their right, to look for reasons to be unhappy.

[_ID_]

Annie, if I post something against the rules, and it gets edited. No, I wont be happy about it. However, I won't feel as though I am being unfairly slienced. It's when something happens that isn't within the rules that people tend to feel they have been wronged somehow.

Torq, you were speaking towards the rules in your post. When you do so, your admin. You have the job, and as admin, when addressing rules, or how something pertains to rules you are acting as admin. Unless you were to clarify yourself first.

[annie]

ID, you are looking to split hairs. As is your way and part of your charm. You will believe whatever you wish to on any and all issues and nothing will change that. I can respect that but I am through participating in helping you to continue your views since no matter how someone responds it will, almost without a doubt, be spun to a negative.

[Torq]

Hello again ID,

And for a final post in this thread,,, this thread is going in circles. The GUIDELINES are written,, If I simply make a post or agree with a member it is NOT all-of-a-sudden a new guideline!!!!!!

As others have said no one way of doing things will EVER make everyone happy. The staff and myself are TRYING to improve this site.

In addition in the past when controversial threads are left up on the boards after being closed. More threads start on the exact same subject just continueing to "stir'. as I am sure will happen again!!

PLEASE LETS MOVE ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Be Well
T