Warning to authors: Before you submit

[Chuckdom19]

Just wanted all authors to know that policy has changed with the new owner.

Should you wish to withdraw a story from the site for any reason, once submitted, YOU WILL BE REFUSED. The site claims that then rights are owned by the site, according to Rabbit1.

Thought you might want to know.

[Mad Lews]

Hi Nightowl,
I do hope this is a misunderstanding and not an actual policy change. Thank yee for the heads up and we await clarification from the upper echelons, (Say it ain't so briar Rabbit1 et al).
The somewhat nervous
Mad Lews

[Ranai]

Hello Tiger, I would like to read what you have to say on the author’s copyright and story removal theme.

I assume this was merely a misunderstanding.


(Should any such policy change indeed occur in the future – which I personally would consider very ill-advised – , as I understand the matter, such a non-cancellable license agreement could only be valid for stories submitted after these license terms would have been expressly posted and agreed to by each author in the story submission process; but certainly not retroactively for stories posted in the past, without any such agreement.)

[lex ludite]

Now let me get this straight, Tiger claims that the site owns the rights to my stories that have been submitted in the past? Tiger also claims that as site Adminstrator or owner, his status has not ever been specifically defined to my satisfaction, he can remove stories from "his" site that he considers objectionable. What happens to these stories that are now no longer on "his" site? Can he turn around and sell them to another site? Depending upon the answers to these questions, there can be some very serious consequences to authors, such as myself. I know for a fact that one author who posted on this site had Jinn remove all his stuff just before the change-over to new "ownership", and there was no problem in having his request honored.

[Rabbit1]

Seems to be quite a misunderstanding---what I said was in return for publishing your stories for free---note the word free----that the site retains the right to desplay them---not own them or sell them ---but desplay them---If you think about it---it is a fair trade---you of course with your ownership of the stories are free to post them else where or sell them as you please ---the Site or Tiger make no such claim to the stories you submitt-

It is not easy to ---I go thru the expense to provide software and a site to publish your stories for free on---and asking only in return that right to after having published them for you --the right to display them.---

So before you get your feathers Ruffled ---I did submit the request to Tiger- via email ---the same way it was submitted to me---and I do not know if Tiger has answered this request or not----and I am awaiting farther clairification from Tiger on this matter----but hey he has a family and a personal life and a business also---so be patient ---

[woodsman'sgame]

Hmm.

Rabbit1, I am a published author in intellectual material that is not BDSM related. The last time I looked, the publisher paid ME for publishing my work not vice versa. I suppose if my work was CRAP I would need to pay someone to publish it, but since it is GOOD, I get paid by the publisher. You need to rethink your policy of keeping the right to retain the author's work on your site or you will soon loose any decent author that you have submitting his/her work and consequently loose viewers and advertisers.

Woodsman's game

[woodsman'sgame]

Since I am given only 5 minutes to edit (that's new too! It used to be quite a bit more time), I need to add to my post here.

Your publishing of my stories for FREE means nothing to me since I could get PAID for my stories in other sites. I have been asked to submit my stories to sites where the authors get paid for their work. I have chosen not to do so for personal reasons but mainly because it is a risky venture for me to get paid for these stories given the nature of my other published work. I would rather keep my stories to myself and a select group of like-minded readers rather than have them taken over by someone else. Rethink your policy or you will lose a lot of authors who can publish elsewhere for FREE or for PAY.

[Rabbit1]

Hmm.

Rabbit1, I am a published author in intellectual material that is not BDSM related. The last time I looked, the publisher paid ME for publishing my work not vice versa. I suppose if my work was CRAP I would need to pay someone to publish it, but since it is GOOD, I get paid by the publisher. You need to rethink your policy of keeping the right to retain the author's work on your site or you will soon loose any decent author that you have submitting his/her work and consequently loose viewers and advertisers.

Woodsman's game

I too am a published author---and have been paid for some of my stories---But I did not sell my copyright to the stories as I am free to post them anywhere I please---most of my stories have nothing to do with BDSM-so they will not be published here but a few do---

So you are telling me if you submit a story to a publisher ----he decides to publish it ---paid you or not---then you have the right to tell that publisher you have changed your mind---and want to publish it elsewhere.

I do not think it works quite that way---Once it is published any publisher retains certain rights to the story--Do you not think of this site as a publisher

I do not get where you are coming from---but then again like I said --not my site nor my policy---I have yet to hear from either the orginal poster of the thread or from Tiger on his answer.

So before we jump the gun get all riled up over nothing --why do we not wait and see what the outcome of the request is first

[Mad Lews]

Seems to be quite a misunderstanding---what I said was in return for publishing your stories for free---note the word free----that the site retains the right to desplay them---not own them or sell them ---but desplay them---If you think about it---it is a fair trade---you of course with your ownership of the stories are free to post them else where or sell them as you please ---the Site or Tiger make no such claim to the stories you submitt-

Dear Furry1,

As I see it this really should be a mutually beneficial exchange. You (or Tiger) run a site, it generates revenue (perhaps not enough for your taste but still it is not nonprofit) based on advertising to viewers. Those viewers are there to read stories. The people who produce those stories retain copyright, which means they might at some point decide to sell their stories commercially . This is not possible if the stories are being displayed for free on the net, Ask any commercial publisher.
We are talking about a relatively rare occurrence here, one the administration of the site should applaud and encourage so published writers will not hesitate to post on the site. The quality of the stories (your product) will only improve.
Writers post their creations on your site for readership and for feedback. They receive no commercial benefit other than a little publicity. If they no longer want a story (their property) shown on this site it would certainly be gracious to honor their wishes. It might also be wise for the future of the site.
Just the ramblings of

Mad Lews

[Rabbit1]

Why are we all crying wolf before a decision has been made????

Why is everyone trying to create problems before they occur???


Personally I do not care one way or the other---But can we not wait until a decission is made before we start crying foul??

[woodsman'sgame]

I was going to stay out of it, Rabbit1, but your response made me angry. You are not doing the authors a favor by publishing our work. There would be no library if it weren't for the authors. You seem to not realize that or you would not have responded as you did. If you don't want everything to get blown out of porportion, then watch what you say and get the owner's attention as soon as possible on this controversial issue. Some things do not need to be put on the back burner.

[lex ludite]

If what Rabbit1 is saying is accurate, then I have no problem with this situation. Of course the site should have first call on what I submit if they are the original poster. Once they take it down,then it reverts to me, no problem. I have no illusions that I am writing deathless prose that anyone in their right mind would pay good money to read. This is strictly a way to keep me off the streets and preventing me from molesting "underage" girls. Anyone who took the last sentence seriously should consult the nearest shrink, since they need help in coping with reality.

[Rabbit1]

I was going to stay out of it, Rabbit1, but your response made me angry. You are not doing the authors a favor by publishing our work. There would be no library if it weren't for the authors. You seem to not realize that or you would not have responded as you did. If you don't want everything to get blown out of porportion, then watch what you say and get the owner's attention as soon as possible on this controversial issue. Some things do not need to be put on the back burner.

I was sent an email with a request ---I did state the policy of the site as I understood it---but I did forward the request to the owner via email the same as it was sent to me the very moment ---So I did not put it on a back burner ---I also told the email author who had to make the decision--so he could also contact the right person as I told him I would forward it --so that is no putting it on a back burner---if people would take other posts with a grain of salt before they have all the facts then things would not get blown out of proportion---

[Ruby]

Rabbit and Tiger,

Forum members talk.
We keep the site alive.

Anything you say can and will be used against you,
that's the reality check.

If an author wants to remove their content and they are sent a note telling that author that the site now owns the rights to publish/display, there is going to be some wicked responses.

There is NOTHING on this site that states the site holds or retains any rights regarding any story that has been submitted. If such information exists, it's new and needs to be posted in a very public place and perhaps the author would have to acknowledge such rights when submitting a story.

At present, based on the lack of documentation, the site is only "hosting" stories that have been submitted by its members. It does not have the right to publish, sell, post these stories on another site or in any electronic or printed format, nor in any way have those rights taken from an author.

That's what the fuss is all about.

Rabbit, please stop yelling. The larger font is rude and doesn't make any friends, nor does it sooth any feelings.

If you want to post a policy about hosting stories, then please do so and make sure you are prepared for a number of authors to wish their stories to be removed.

For those who have requested their stories be removed, I strongly suggest you honor their requests.

[Rabbit1]

I am not shouting with larger letters as I sometime think you can not read the fine print----

Now this policy I spoke of is kind of standard on all story boards---take a look at this one

If I submit a story to Literotica, do I still own the copyright?

Absolutely. You are simply granting us a non-exclusive right to post your story on Literotica.com. All rights to the story still belong to you, the author.

You will see the author is keeping the copyright but granting the right to post it on that board

so ladies and gent this is not by any means Tigers decision I just hope the --members will act adult enough to wait for a decision before crying foul

I am acting in good faith ---and await Tiger's decision---if he tells me to delete the stories I will if not then they stay

I closed this thred for awhile out of anger so I would not say some things I did not need to say.

You have a right to your decussion as long as it does not get personal like in name calling-----you have a right to your opinion ---but like you have a right to ignore my opinion I reserve the same right to ignore yours

[Ruby]

Site owners or administrators, please refer authors to the policy for posting to this site and where it exists.

Rabbit's point about Literotica is well taken, however, this site is not Literotica.

If you don't have a policy, then please create one.

I don't suggest you use Literotica's because it does not have a time frame built into it. For example, the non-exclusive right to post story for six months or one year.

If authors want to have their stories taken down, please honor their requests.

As it turns out, more than one author has chosen to have his/her story published after it has been posted on the BDSM Library. In order to comply with some publisher's guidelines, all known free versions of said story must be removed from the net. Your honoring authors request would go a long way to building good will at this site.

[Rabbit1]

once again I did not quote policy here---if you had read the whole email that this whole thing came about ---I stated as far as I knew---this was policy and that the decision would have to be made by Tiger ---then I forwarded the request to Tiger---

someone saw part of a email and got his panties in a wad---what startred out as a request from a member during the time of the change of ownership of the site ---that no one really know who got the orginal request be it Tiger or Jinn
went un answered for over a month---when I got the email from the member I answered it the same day in the only way I could---

It just pisses me off that someone --mis quoted me ---by not using the whole email----in the end the member in question actually thanked me and then I assured him I had forwarded the matter to the proper place

Jesus give the new guy a break---I never ever said the stories would not be remove per request---I just stated policy as I understood it ---and it seems in the past this member said he had a special agreement with Jinn---which I know nothing about

[Rabbit1]

Site owners or administrators, please refer authors to the policy for posting to this site and where it exists.

Rabbit's point about Literotica is well taken, however, this site is not Literotica.

If you don't have a policy, then please create one.

I don't suggest you use Literotica's because it does not have a time frame built into it. For example, the non-exclusive right to post story for six months or one year.

If authors want to have their stories taken down, please honor their requests.

As it turns out, more than one author has chosen to have his/her story published after it has been posted on the BDSM Library. In order to comply with some publisher's guidelines, all known free versions of said story must be removed from the net. Your honoring authors request would go a long way to building good will at this site.

you are right---there is not written set Policy here---and maybe I assumed one way and you assumed the other---That is why I let the owner decide this issue

Because I assumed what was standard at other story sites like this one ---I may well be wrong---if I am I do not mind admitting it

next I will tell you before the month is out there will be a policy and forum rules set in stone for all to follow

We have between 20 and 50 new members joining a day and they are just as lost as I am

that being said why do we all just sit back and wait until the owner decides what to do

I really hate to think every time I try to help some one that a third party will get involved and turn evey issue into a circus like this

[woodsman'sgame]

Sigh

Rabbit1, I appreciate your efforts in respecting my privacy. Let me help you and everyone out by saying that I was the one who wrote the email. I am not fussing at you, nor, I hope, is anyone else for not responding. You have responded more than enough. I appreciate your quick reply even if I am not happy with the content. It is the owner who needs to respond. For justifiable reasons, I and the other authors to whom I spoke about this issue feel he should take an interest in this site and respond quickly if there is a problem. It's easier to put out a small fire that a blazing inferno. That's why you don't wait 2 days to respond to a problem. Furthermore, this is not a forum issue. It's a Library issue. It's just that this is the only place to talk about it.
I will write no more unless the owner does not respond within the next two days. I feel two days is adequate time for him to make a decision.
Notice that I was not the one who started this thread, I am willing to wait. I am glad, though, that it was started because the owner can see how many of us feel about the issue and hopefully that will influence his decision. Don't get up tight about the matter. This is something that probably needed to be put out in the open before the final decision was made.
I have no hard feelings towards you and know you are trying. I strongly disagree with many of the things you said about publishing and authors' rights but I do appreciate your attention to the issue.

[Fox]

I am writing to publicly request that all original stories written by me under the name Fox be removed from www.bdsmlibrary.com I make this request without prejudice.

I no longer write in the bdsm genre. For personal reasons, I no longer wish to have my original work in this genre available online or in any other form.

My work was submitted with a clear statement of copyright and reproduction permission. On previous occasions when I asked that a story of mine be removed, it was done so quickly and without question.

I understand that there is new ownership for this site. This request is not a comment on the change in ownership or any change in policy.

Recognizing that it will take several days to remove the stories, I suggest that December 31, 2005 is an acceptable date by which time all my written work is removed.

If the webmaster and/or owner wish to discuss this with me, I can be reached by email at writerfox@fastmail.ca.

Thank you. I appreciate having the opportunity to post my work on this site. I wish you well.

Sincerely,
Fox

[Rabbit1]

Mr. Fox

with all due respect ---I suggest that you make this request in writing in the form of an email to the owner of the site. I have seen it but as you know reading this it is not in my powers to do anything about removing stories without the owners permission--and I am not going to act as a messenger again --I am saying this in case this post gets pushed down by other posts and the owner does not see it.

this of is just a suggestion to you and any other author who wishes their stories removed---

if you or any other author email me or PM me with such a request in the future I will simply answer you by telling you to send it to the owner.

[Fox]

Dear Rabbit,

Thank you for your prompt reply. I will gladly make my request in the form of an email to the new owner if I knew who the owner was and how to reach him or her.

That is why (1) I made the request in a public forum and (2) I suggested you and/or he/she contact me by email: writerfox@fastmail.ca

As you are the administrator, and as you have represented the owner in this matter, I would appreciate your assistance.

Thank you.

[Rabbit1]

Dear Rabbit,

Thank you for your prompt reply. I will gladly make my request in the form of an email to the new owner if I knew who the owner was and how to reach him or her.

That is why (1) I made the request in a public forum and (2) I suggested you and/or he/she contact me by email: writerfox@fastmail.ca

As you are the administrator, and as you have represented the owner in this matter, I would appreciate your assistance.

Thank you.

you can go to this link ---click on Tigers name---it will open a scroll down window---click on email Tiger

http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3896

[Rabbit1]

I have heard from Tiger---He has said he knew of no pervious arrangement about your post---But we talked and I told him in this case I thought we should honor your request--he agreeded--- I will remove your stories today

One more thing ---this decision was not made based on the posts in this thread--he has not even seen it. I do not know how you dealt with the past owner but this one is a fair man. Just like I strive to be fair to all.
He also agreed that there would be a policy announcement on this in the near future---

now can we all just try to get along?

[Fox]

I have written Tiger (I assume he is the new owner), using both webmaster@bdsmlibrary.com and the link you provided. Thank you.

I would like to state that it is a coincidence that woodsman'sgame and I have both requested the removal of our work. I have not visited these forums for well over a year and do not plan to visit again once my work is removed. Again, it is not a reflection on any change in ownership or policy, it is a matter of personal choice.

As to your comment about "getting along", I will pass on some advice (unsolicited but well intended). Your choice of words "warning to authors" et al may be construed by some as potentially inflammatory. You may wish to soften the tone.

Good luck with the site. I have enjoyed being part of it.

Sincerely,
Fox

[Rabbit1]

I have written Tiger (I assume he is the new owner), using both webmaster@bdsmlibrary.com and the link you provided. Thank you.

I would like to state that it is a coincidence that woodsman'sgame and I have both requested the removal of our work. I have not visited these forums for well over a year and do not plan to visit again once my work is removed. Again, it is not a reflection on any change in ownership or policy, it is a matter of personal choice.

As to your comment about "getting along", I will pass on some advice (unsolicited but well intended). Your choice of words "warning to authors" et al may be construed by some as potentially inflammatory. You may wish to soften the tone.

Good luck with the site. I have enjoyed being part of it.

Sincerely,
Fox

Thanks ---but the warning to authors was not my choice of words---the orginal poster choose that---I guess to get some attention to his thread.---I kind of took it as inflammatory

[Ranai]

The clarification that if an author requests the removal of a story, it will be removed, is still missing.

[Masters_lilone]

ok people i read this thread and all i'm gonna say is this tiger and rabbit are putting alot of work in to running this site the last thing they need to deal with is being acussed of stuff that isn't even true. if ya don't want your stories on the site then don't put them on the site

[Ruby]

That Tiger and Rabbit1 are busy working hard to run this site is not what this thread is about. It began as warning, that turned into a complaint because more than one author requested their stories to be removed and were frustrated by the answers they received.

Since then, Rabbit1 has done much better at communicating the status of what is and isn't happening.

if ya don't want your stories on the site then don't put them on the site

I'm quite sure that many authors will take your advice.

Meanwhile, these are the current requests that I hope are in process of being handled:

* Site owners or administrators, please refer authors to the policy for posting to this site and where it exists.

* If you don't have a policy, then please create one.

* If authors want to have their stories taken down, please honor their requests.

Note: This last request should be honored for all authors who have posted their stories before the new site ownership change, who request to have their stories removed as those requests were honored in the past.

[Rabbit1]

I do not know why we keep posting to this thread---the authors complaints have been noted---they have been given instructions on what to do if they wish their stories removed.

So I see new posts to this thread as counter productive--It will accomplish nothing--if you wish to contact Tiger---Email him with a constructive complaint---do not start name calling or it will just be ignored---otherwise continued posting to this thread by the same posters who have already made their point of view known in this thread will change nothing. There is nothing I can do until Tiger makes a decision, posting for me to see what I have already seen is wasting your time. If you think posts will sway Tiger's decision one way or the other just look at those who opposed the removal of underage stories---All of those posts made no difference---It may have made the poster feel better getting to voice their opinion, I have already stated that because of this post and the way it was worded, Past the orginal authors request to me ---that I helped get resolved ---I would no longer involve myself in this issue. Had these concerns been sent to me in the proper fashion via email or PM I would have addressed each and every concern. but the orginal poster chose to make a circus out of a concern and I chose not to participate in it.

I hope in the future if a member has a concern or an issue they will send it to me to help them on, but if they chose this route to handle their problems then they are on their own.

the members of this forum owe me nothing just like I owe them nothing--I do this for free because I like to do it. And if you treat me with some respect I will treat you the same way.

I hope the other Mods will not post to this thread as it is the last time I am going to post to it---

If any member has a concern or issue other than the one in this thread please feel free to contact me---anyone who has will tell you I answer promply---But as far as I am concerned this is a dead issue until the Tiger makes his decision known---I have urged him to do so on the story page under webmasters special notes---where the previous webmaster made his notes about Publishing stories on this site

Rabbit1