Question bout Female Submissive

[John62]

I have a woman sub and she told me that she is absolutly not going to try anything that has to do with women or animals. Friend of mine wants to borrow her but he wants to have her play around with the animals.

My question is, is there anyway i can get her to change her mind and to be open to that that dosent involve breaking her spirits. thanks in advance

[mina]

What kind of animals?

[John62]

Not sure what animals he has i never asked but she said she wont have nothing to do with no animal be it dog, horse, goat, donkey,ect

[Tojo]

Are you serious?

I think you may be either on the wrong forum, or pulling our legs....

Tojo

[John62]

No im serious not sure where to posted it but i figured here would be a ok start

[John62]

all i know is that she agreed to be my sub, signed contract and everything but yet she is reluctant to not even give a try to bi experiance or animals and im wondering if there was anyway i could get her to be more open

[mina]

lol... okay. I don't think there's any way to change her mind about something like that. That's just...no. I'd do a lion though.

[John62]

Well thats what i feared was that theres no way i just thought there was like some trick in like slowly introducing her into it to see if she would change her mind

[Ozme52]

I don't think you're at the wrong site.... That having been said, if you've read many of the discussions, you'll note that in exchange for relinquishing control to you, you have to (or at least should) respect her limits.

You are as bound by the contract as she is. Should you break it, she is no longer bound to obey it either. It's a two-way street. For most people, beastiality is a hard limit. For many, so is same-sex contact.

Does your contract mention her being loaned to others? Because if it doesn't, you might have to renegotiate it anyway...


Now, as far as coaxing her into being more open... one can often work wonders by example... maybe if she saw you giving your friend a blowjob... she might understand your desire to see her with another woman...

If you don't like that idea... maybe you can understand her reluctance.

[John62]

well i dont have a problem with it thats why i was wondering why she did, but ill see what i can do and she agreed in the contract that she dosent mind being loaned out

[Tojo]

Well here's the thing- contract or no contract, if someone doesn't want to do something they don't want to do it.

If you try & force or coerce them into it, you're breaking the law.

I'd say bestiality & scat are a no-no for the vast majority of people, & nothing will cause them to change their minds.

A contract is not legally binding, it's just an agreement for two people to have some fun- why not keep it that way?

Good try Oz.

Tojo

[_ID_]

Sounds to me like her limits are those that somone learns as they are learning what is ok for poeple to do and what isn't people to do. This would be her values. To change something that someone believes as being wrong on a very personal level, rather than a preference requires realigning their value system.

For you to change how she sees the act, would require that you remove her beliefe that somehow it is either wrong or disgusting. Figure out how to do that, and you might be on your way. One thing for sure is it isn't going to happen quickly.

As far as coerce someone into something being legal or not. I would have to ask if it's ok for people to come to my door and ask me to join their church, then the same should be said of me asking someone to do something with me, they find repulsive.

V/R
ID

[MsUther]

I second most of the comments posted here.
I just want to throw in a question about you not knowing what animals it might be. If you dont know this, do you know this person good enough to lend out your trusting sub to him?

[Uncle_Ed]

I have a woman sub and she told me that she is absolutly not going to try anything that has to do with women or animals. Friend of mine wants to borrow her but he wants to have her play around with the animals.

My question is, is there anyway i can get her to change her mind and to be open to that that dosent involve breaking her spirits. thanks in advance

It seems to me that if you have contract you should have been specific about it's contents. Isn't this what an agreement if for? What does it say? If you want certain things, you should have said at the offset. In my opionion complaining now that she won't co-operate is more a question of why did you choose a sub who has different tastes to you?

Additionally, How in God's green earth can you possibly think about "loaning her out" to someone about whom you seem to have precious little knowledge? This strikes me as extremely dangerous. I'm with Tojo on this one...I offer my other leg to be pulled.

[submissivewife]

all i know is that she agreed to be my sub, signed contract and everything but yet she is reluctant to not even give a try to bi experiance or animals and im wondering if there was anyway i could get her to be more open

Ok, what I am trying to understand is why you want her to do this?

Couple of things I see here.

1. She does NOT want to do this
2. You WANT her too

If you force her to do this just because she signed a contract with you, you will loose her respect and trust. That is one very fatal thing that will ruin your relationship. Pushing limits is one thing, force is another, and in my opinion abuse; in which case, she should leave and find a dom that is caring of her limits and interests.

subwife

[Ruby]

Willing to post a copy of the contract here?
Or in our contract thread.
We're always seeking good examples.

And you do understand that those contracts do not stand up in court and won't protect you if she cries rape.

So far, from what I've read, this relationship is all about you, John. What does she get out of it? How are her needs being met?

If you don't take care of her, protect her, and keep her limits, then you really don't want a sub, you may be seeking a slave who gets off on that kind of "risk aware consensual/non-consensual kink" thing.

Either way, keep pushing and she won't be your sub for very much longer.

[her_Joe]

It seems a simple question to me, John. Is her refusal a "hard limit" or a "soft limit"? And those questions have to be addressed to her, don't they?

And if it's a hard limit, it should be somewhere in the vicinity of your contract and you probably shouldn't even mention it.

When pursuing a contract I think it's really good practice to go through, together, one of the BDSM checklists -- I've seen several here and others online and most any will do for purposes of your discussion.

I also have found it useful to review it periodically because, as another thread here makes clear, things change for all of us.

hJ

[Tojo]

lol... okay. I don't think there's any way to change her mind about something like that. That's just...no. I'd do a lion though.

Hey, make sure it's been de-clawed Mina!


Tojo

[Master Cromac]

A sumissive has the right to set hard limits. You can approach these limits and push the slowely and over time she might change but not quickly. Most subs I have know have a hard limiy of animals and kids, It is so much easier to deal with a slave, there are no limits because she trusts you to bring her through the experience safely.

[Aesop]

Well now I suppose that depends on your definition of a slave. We all have different ideas about this and while I respect yours, many of us don't agree that having a slave means total control and really in this instance it sounds like a person my be being pushed into something she really doesn't want to do. That's not bdsm, that's rape in my opinion. Not knowing the whole situation I could be wrong of course, but back to my original point. If you'd like to get along with the group here I'd suggest you refrain from blanket definitions of roles within d/s. Just some friendly advice Cromac. Enjoy your stay with us.

[Ozme52]

A sumissive has the right to set hard limits. You can approach these limits and push the slowely and over time she might change but not quickly. Most subs I have know have a hard limiy of animals and kids, It is so much easier to deal with a slave, there are no limits because she trusts you to bring her through the experience safely.

Yeah, I agree with Aesop here. This is not my "definition" of a slave. I too dislike hard and fast definitions. It all depends on the people involved and requires a consensus of opinion.

And what does safety have to do with it? Many hard limits have nothing to do with the issue of safety. Slaves, as you've defined it are far and few inbetween...

The issue here is that regardless of the relationship, the sub's limits have been stated and John would like to violate them... I think he's bored with his toy.

[mina]

Yeah, I agree with Aesop here. This is not my "definition" of a slave. I too dislike hard and fast definitions. It all depends on the people involved and requires a consensus of opinion.

And what does safety have to do with it? Many hard limits have nothing to do with the issue of safety.

Exactly.

[Tojo]

It is so much easier to deal with a slave, there are no limits

No limits? Of course there are limits. Imagine going to court & saying 'but your honour she said it was OK to strangle her'

No limits means breaking criminal & moral laws.

Tojo

[submissivewife]

I think he's bored with his toy.

Once again, Ozzy gets to the heart of the matter.....

[Master Cromac]

In the over 30 years I have been envovled with BDSM I have found some things common amoung the groups I was with. One is that both the subs and slaves chose who is to Dom them. If is going to last there is a period of coutship if you will so they can become more aware of each other. During this period limits are discussed and agreed upon. The slaves I have knowen all said they would do anything their Dom/Domms asked of them they trusted them that much. I do admitt the almost all were husband and wife also. And the Dom/Domme had their owen limits. As far as safety is concerned it is called safe and sane play. And I agree that the issuse here is not my deffintion of slavery but rather his inability to accept his subs answer of NO. And I too am qiute concerned that he does not know what ind of animals nor how many there are. I am a firm believer in NO MEANS NO.

[Tojo]

Thanks for clearing that up MC. Makes perfect sense now.


Tojo

(Guys this 'most helpful' thing is downright embarrassing!)

[maddie]

Just jumping on the bandwagon here: Contracts between D and s are set up for a reason. Everybody involved knows what's fair game and what's not up front. I suspect Tojo is right (as usual) about John62 being bored; either that or he's not taking the situation as seriously as he ought to be. That sort of stuff isn't done on a whim.

[_ID_]

As far as safety is concerned it is called safe and sane play

I find it interesting you bring this up when we are talking about limits. I am going to start a new thread to discuss this. I hope its interesting.

V/R
ID

[Aesop]

(Guys this 'most helpful' thing is downright embarrassing!)

Hey man, you won the vote. Take pride in your smiley.

I now return you to the topic at hand....

[Ozme52]

Once again, Ozzy gets to the heart of the matter.....

You betcha!! LOL